Forum: Story Discussion and Feedback

My advice: look at the last posted chapter. If it's older than 2 years, the chances of a next chapter are pretty close to nil, no matter if the author is pushing up the daisies, found other priorities or started to offer his writings elsewhere.

It's also not uncommon for authors to suddenly 'find God' (or more likely, find a hot chick who insists all his part-time hobbies are 'sinful'), and who then deletes all of his previously writings and disappears from the scene, never to write (in these spaces, at least) again.

Beware of externally imposed moralities, as people wear them like a shield to protect them from live, being too terrified to actually live life to the fullest—even in their fantasies.

I was searching to see if there was any information about @Argon.

His latest post here on the forum:

https://storiesonline.net/d/s9/t11167/epic-length-gaining-power#po192703

Well I will continue to take the easy way and enjoy the stories writers have shared. Some that I enjoy have passed, but I still have their story pages bookmarked since I will read them again.

Although like I stated above, I will continue to enjoy their stories in the future.

As for the unfinished stories, don't focus on what'll never be. Instead, focus on what they offered. We have a LOT of unfinished works of brilliance, and while we'll never see them concluded, we can enjoy them for what they are, and imagine our own endings.

Check out the list of wonderful, incomplete stories and see what I mean. Writing stop writing, or give up on stories, for a variety of reason, but it doesn't mean the stories being available. The hope of all authors is that their words will live on after they've left the earth, speaking to future generations.

However, I've found several authors over the years that were writing as they faced illness or conditions that limited their ability to get out. Some of them didn't make it.

Another thing you find is that, when an author's health precludes them from writing on the same level as before, they'll often switch to an unknown pseudonym, so they won't impair their stellar reputation by churning out sub-par stories. Thus some authors will continue lurking, and continue churcning out stories, but readers will never know it's them.

Too often, death doesn't claim people suddenly, but instead acts subtly, stealing ever larger aspects of a person's life until the person is nothing like the robust, carefree individual they were before their illness.

I've known a couple authors who've taken that route (and subsequently passed on). I have no idea how frequently it happens, but I suspect it's more common than we'll ever know.

From what I remember when Wes passed it was a coalition of family members who were going to finish editing and posting his works.

That was the intent, but the actuality is a couple of his editors are working with one member of his family to get it done.

typo edit

wtf?

type of error when you type while half asleep from fatigue - wrong word, fixed

From what I remember when Wes passed it was a coalition of family members who were going to finish editing and posting his works.

Damn! I wish my family cared enough to do that. Although they all read and collect each of my books, they've shown zero interest in carrying on my legacy if I were to die suddenly.

I do have a few editors who have advanced copies of my stories, but since those editors often get sick or drop out for a variety of reasons, it's hard establishing long-term contingency plans.

Obviously a problem in the way you brought them up - the parents are to blame. (sniffs and runs for cover)

No. It's just that online posting, and the extremes I go to in editing and designing my work, makes it extremely difficult for anyone to jump in and take it over for me.

If I wasn't such a control freak, then someone might volunteer. Once again, I'm just kvetching.

It's been a long time since I've visited his site. I noticed, belatedly, that although he mentions selling though lulu, all of his sales seem to be via his site (he probably prints through lulu, but then sells the completed books himself). I also note that his books all seem to sell around the $11.99 price range (which is near what you'd pay for a best-selling NY Times bestseller.

It's too late to ask, but I'm wondering whether that 'sell print books directly' model works better than the 'sell thru a variety of different channels, which all take a cut' model much of the rest are following?

It's too late to ask, but I'm wondering whether that 'sell print books directly' model works better than the 'sell thru a variety of different channels, which all take a cut' model much of the rest are following?

Except for a few exceptions due to their size and a few that are at zero dollars my e-books sell for US$5.95. I let the freebies go through the multiple networks set up like Amazon and Apple via Lulu as I get nothing from them at all, the ones I sell for actual cash are only sold via Lulu. For me to make anything off them sold via Amazon via Lulu I'd have to almost double the prices and then Amazon will still get about half of it.

The general consensus, based on independent book sales by self-published authors, is that the magic numbers are $2.99 (for the most sales) and $4.99 (for the greatest revenue). However, as they say, individual results may vary.

In my case, which I think affects Ernest as well, is that my book prices are what's known in economic terms as 'price inflexible', meaning that a boost in prices has little impact on the quantity sold. My readers like my books, are aren't frightened off by a couple of dollars more. (I learned this by playing around with my book prices quite a bit over time.)

However, that 'inflexibilty' has its limits. The added price allows me to add more features, making the book appear more professional (with graphics, epigraphs, links, character lists and bibliographies), but I'm not about to charge what the traditional mainstream publishers do. Thus I'm curious what various authors observe in their sales when they do employ those higher prices.

By the way, I add those extra features to justify my higher prices, but I'm now considering publishing 'preview' copies that are just plain text versions to see whether I can reach more people than I currently am.

One last detail, it's long been known that price affects reader interest inversely. That is, the higher you charge, the more readers will consider your book worth reading. So while many people will pounce on a free or $.99 book, they're also less likely to ever read it. That's why $4.99 books perform better than $2.99 books across the board.

I'm not sure a lot of readers are interested in all the extras. I think it strongly depends on the type of story if it can have extras at all that are interesting too most readers and add to the story itself. Releasing 2 versions, one with and one without extras can solve that problem easily.

I never said it was. After all, they're reading the story rather than enjoying the extras. But, that said, having paid a premium price, it's nice to get a more professional product for your money. It's my way of assuring that my readers get more for laying out their cold-hard cash than they'd get from reading it for free on SOL.

As for having two versions, one cheap and one pricey, it's ultimately a losing proposition, as no one would pay the extra. Besides, I'm already giving everyone the 'text only' version for FREE.

Instead, what I'm doing is adding the perceived value. The extras aren't necessary to enjoy the story, but they add to the overall experience.

As for your final point, about not paying much for ebooks, I agree, which is why I'm reluctant to charge more than I already am. While my prices are optimal for me, there's a decidedly sharp drop-off beyond a certain price. That's why I was curious how successful other authors in similar situations are with higher prices.

The one thing I did notice about Wes Boyd's books, is that you can't purchase them anywhere else. You can only purchase the print version via PayPal on his personal webpage. That's additional maintenance and processing costs the rest of us who use 'distributors' like Amazon and lulu don't have to contend with.

It might encourage readers to buy a series instead of single books just to get the free extras.

For the most part, my most loyal fans can read the story here on SOL for FREE anyway, but they opt to purchase my books as a way of encouraging me to continue. Thus I like adding the extra to make the professional product look a little nicer than the plain text SOL versions.

Plus, in the end, I'm often more intrigued by the design aspects than I am in the literary details, so I mainly do it (adding the extras) simply because it's a challenge which I enjoy undertaking.

If you think of my writing as my non-paying job, then the design elements are my hobby, which helps to break up the pure 'slob' work of editing and refining my writing.

Mmm, I never considered the differences in size, that's good point. I'm only interested in long stories so generally that's all I look into. The fact is that for publishing (very) long stories like here on SOL these are broken into multiple books which each have to be bought to get the whole story.

Still, there's a BIG difference between the scam authors on Amazon Prime, trying to push 10,000 word 'novels' (less than many SOL chapters) and a typical published science fiction sage of 120,000 words. My books generally fall into the latter category, as most of my books run around 20+ chapters of about 100,000 to 150,000 words.

Frankly, writing books that long take a LOT of sustained work, which for me is more substantial than the costs associated with producing the books, so I charge slightly more to offset the work (cost to produce), while adding in the extra 'bells and whistles' to help justify the higher costs ($5.99 to $7.99, rather than the $2.99 charged by most self-published authors or the $28.99 charged by most mainstream publishers for their ebooks). Of course, the print books run a bit more due to the physical price to print each copy.

Funny, I never knew that "Just Plain Jane" was Rachael. The others, yes, but not her.

I was told that Rachael Ross passed away. Anyone has info about her? Is she really passed away? when, where and how that happened. As far as I know, she's quite young.
Rachael Ross is one my favorite author.

Believe me, her passing was duly noted and commented on (back when we were using a Google-Forum based SOL forum). She was very active on the forum, and VERY opinionated, enjoying pissing people off much like her stories do, so when she fell absent, it was felt by most everyone here.

The wonderful thing about Rachael, despite her many faults, was that unlike the rest of us, she spent her entire life in the writing and publishing field, so she KNEW WTF she was talking about and could back up her positions with well-established documentation. She was always wonderful about setting everyone straight when we started going off the wall.

I see a lot of ebook series on Amazon where the first book in a series is either free or only $0.99 - $1.99. This is obviously an attempt to draw in new readers, hoping they will continue on with the series and pay a higher price for the rest of the books in the series. For me personally, sometimes it works and I will end up buying everything available by this 'new' author I've discovered. OTOH, I've also downloaded a number of 'free' or 99 cent first-in-series books that I abandoned a few chapters into the story.

Again, that's the pricing dilemma. If you sell a book for $0.99, you get a LOT more readers, but conversely, they don't think much of the story simply because it was so cheap. The thinking is akin to the old Groucho Marx joke: "I don't want to belong to any club that will accept people like me as a member."

Instead, readers typically (largely through self-justification) value those products they spend more on.

It's a fairly complex dynamic, and it's generally fairly risky, but it seems to hold true for my stories. I lose several sales for every book, but the extra I earn helps cover the extra time I spend (both writing, designing and adding the 'extras'). However, nothing "pays" for the work, as there's no way I'd work at a job which requires this many hours for so little compensation!

Again, that's the pricing dilemma. If you sell a book for $0.99, you get a LOT more readers, but conversely, they don't think much of the story simply because it was so cheap.

That's not my thinking at all. At least not in regard to the first book in a series. I either like a story, or I don't. I have around 800 books in my Kindle library. I have a number of unfinished ones that I paid $2.99 or more for that just could not hold my interest, despite the preview chapters being good enough to encourage me to spend my dollars. I've even read all the way through a multi-book series, only to lose interest in the last book because of the direction the author steers the story line. That aggravates me.

I've even read all the way through a multi-book series, only to lose interest in the last book because of the direction the author steers the story line. That aggravates me.

That often happens here on SOL too, and is part of the challenge with each book you pick up, whether for free (like in a library or SOL), or for bucks (via print or ebooks).

Just because you liked one (or several) books by a particular author, there's no guaranteeing you'll like the next book they produce. And often, the reasons why someone throws a book away are pretty esoteric (ex: "he doesn't understand how shortwave radio works", "no cop would ever behave like that", or even "I once had a relative who was like your character, who abused me, thus I'll NEVER read that type of story!!!).

On the flip side, it's always especially rewarding to try a new unknown author, only to discover that they're story is PHENOMENAL!, so often, the risk ends up being it's own rewards. The few successes help offset the many, many failures. :(

Just because you liked one (or several) books by a particular author, there's no guaranteeing you'll like the next book they produce.

Loved "The Da Vinci Code." Hated "Lost Symbols." Will never read another Dan Brown book.

What at first delights me on Amazon is the prospect of reading a story for 99 cents - then, AFTER i get to the end, I find out for the first time that it's a series and I'm going to have pay more money (sometimes much more than 99 cents) to get the rest of the story.

That's clearly false advertising, as they're leaving vital information about the book. Whenever I extend a book into a series, I always emblazon the title with the series title, so readers know, going in, that the book is not a 'one and done' story.

While it's a valid marketing approach to 'giving away' the first book (or steeply discounting it), it's underhanded doing so while pretending it's not part of a series. For that alone, I'd avoid ever purchasing another book from the author, under the adage: if they cheat at that, why would I trust them with anything ever again?

Going a step further, I've taken to releasing "Box Sets" (all the books in a series) before the series in complete. In theory, it's a way to get a discount on the existing series while getting the final sequel for FREE. But more than that, it's a gentle reminder that the book is part of a series (it typically shows up under "If you like this book, you'll also like ..." section in most online bookstores), while giving the readers a general idea of the cost of the entire series before they commit to it.

But then, you can tell that I spend a LOT of time contemplating these various marketing attempts, trying to figure out which ones pay for themselves and which are out-and-out deceptive practices.

as long as I know ahead of time what it's going to cost me to get the complete story.

A series doesn't mean you have to buy another book to finish the story. I wouldn't consider "The Lord of the Rings" a series (you have to read all three to finish the story). I'd call that a trilogy.

The Bourne novels are a series. So are the James Bond novels. But each book is standalone.

ETA:
From Wikipedia:

A book series is a sequence of books having certain characteristics in common that are formally identified together as a group. Fictional series typically share a common setting, story arc, set of characters or timeline. They are common in genre fiction, particularly crime fiction, adventure fiction, and science fiction, as well as in children's literature.

Some works in a series can stand alone—they can be read in any order, as each book makes few, if any reference to past events, and the characters seldom, if ever, change. Many of these series books may be published in a numbered series. Examples of such series are works like The Hardy Boys, Nancy Drew, and Nick Carter.

There are some book series that are not really proper series, but more of a single work so large that it must be published over two or more books. Examples of this type include The Lord of the Rings volumes or the Dark Tower series by Stephen King.

A series doesn't mean you have to buy another book to finish the story. I wouldn't consider "The Lord of the Rings" a series (you have to read all three to finish the story). I'd call that a trilogy.

The Bourne novels are a series. So are the James Bond novels. But each book is standalone.

Switch is correct. A novel, no matter where it fits within a series or universe, is typically a complete story (unless horribly written). It might leave pieces of the larger conflict unresolved, but it will resolve the central conflicts of that book itself. Still, I get PotomacBob's point.

I'm sure glad that you corrected me. Here I was feeling bad because I didn't get the full story, felt I had been cheated. But now I feel all better because you tell me I'm all wet.

You're not wrong (i.e. "all wet"), but just because a ride continues endlessly doesn't mean you have to continue buying tickets indefinitely. If you like the one book, that's fine. If you think the others are a heap of trash, that's fine too. But ... if you're curious what eventually happens to the characters, that means you're already 'invested' in the story.

Now if you don't hear from me after Sept 18th…

OKAY - we've got to the 18th to party!

typo edit

I'm flying to Italy tomorrow (Sept 6) for a couple of weeks.

The Italians are turning away economic migrants, so you might end up in Spain or Malta :(

AJ

The Italians are turning away economic migrants,

I'm bringing money so they'll love me. :)

I'm bringing money so they'll love me. :)

If you've got money, the people-smugglers can even get you into Britain. :)

AJ

The more important question is, can they also get him out again?

No. Human rights lawyers and the European Court of Justice mean that nobody can ever leave the UK. He certainly can't be allowed to leave for the USA because they still have the death penalty.

AJ

If you've got money, the people-smugglers can even get you into Britain. :)

The more important question is, can they also get him out again?

Can we pay to keep him there? 'D

If you've got money, the people-smugglers can even get you into Britain. :)

I have a 4-hour layover in England.

I have a 4-hour layover in England.

Does that mean 4 hours of overpriced airport shops and fast food?

Enjoy!

AJ

Does that mean 4 hours of overpriced airport shops and fast food?

Yes to the first one (my wife) and yes to the second one (me).

My wife googled places to eat in Heathrow. One place has two 1/2 pound burgers stacked on top of each other within a bun. I had that once in France by mistake. Not knowing French, I thought it was two 1/4 pound burgers totaling 1/2 pound. It was a pound of meat with a top bun, bottom bun, and middle bun.

Not knowing French, I thought it was two 1/4 pound burgers totaling 1/2 pound. It was a pound of meat with a top bun, bottom bun, and middle bun.

They're trying to catch up with the American weight advantage!

Of course, the obvious question is: why didn't you just toss a couple of the buns and just chew down on the burgers themselves?

Thank you for sharing though you may wish to place it in its own thread so that it has better visibility.

I deliberately chose a discreet place to post the link. The article appeared in my twitter feed so everyone can feel free to use it as they wish.

AJ

Five and a half years later...
I just posted a "blog" about that. Sure, no one ever reads my blog, but for an hour or so it'll be on the front of SOL's main page. It's a reasonable response. Some will look at it. Others won't. Not my fault, man.
-ZM

It's gone already. Is that because of the external link?

AJ

It's gone already.

It's still there, along with the contents...

It's not on the SOL home page. Chronologically, it should be between Old Man with a Pen's blog and his story update.

I'm disappointed - you haven't yet blown up Jorking Awnlee Station.

AJ

The operative word being.... Yet....

family is trying to get what they can while the getting is good relying on Wes' reputation and followers. It just feels wrong.

It may feel wrong, but it's what Wes wanted and set up while still alive. It's part of his inheritance to them, and the prices have not changed, that's what they were before. If you buy before it's finished being posted to the site you pay about $20.00 but if the story has been up some time then it goes down. Bird in the Hand is $7.99 which has been out 3 or 4 years, so are several others of about the same age. Then the older ones from about 5 or 6 years ago are $4.99 - - that's been the pricing policy for more than 3 years to my knowledge.

They should put some of those lower priced books at the top because I'm certain that more readers are scared of by the current top prices. Someone who buys a lower priced book may come back for more, someone like me who left immediately is lost for any sale.

I typically follow the industry standard. You always post the 'hottest' thing first, the newest release, which is typically also the highest price, and then list them in reverse chronological order, which generally runs from highest to lowest.

To attract new readers, unfamiliar with your work, you don't put your oldest, worst selling (at the moment) stories first. Instead you offer discounts, so they either appear in the discount bin (notification of price discount pages) or you offer them for free on 'free read' sites likes Amazon Prime. Though you typically do that ONLY with the first books in the series. That way, if the reader likes it, they'll read the rest in the series, but not necessarily try the rest of the author's works. Generally, if they like two stories, they'll return for the rest (no need to force the issue).

He was a good writer but $20 for an ebook? No way.

The standard pricing for independently-published ebooks (the mainstream publishers routinely charge $29.99 for ebooks, in order to prop up their artificially high $24.99 price for paperbacks) is $0.99 to sell the most books (i.e. get them into the hands of the most people, who'll then supposedly buy your other books) or $2.99, which pays the most (i.e. higher sales + higher commission). Those figures are from Smashwords (the only source doing research on independent book sales, since Amazon doesn't wait to alienate their mainstream publishers) and have been consistent for many years.

I charge more, but simply because I'm working with a different type of readers. Rather than being price sensitive (buying many more books at $0.99 than they do at $1.99), I've found that the $0.99 readers typically won't buy anything else, while once someone buys one of my books, they'll typically buy anywhere from seven to fifteen more. However, authors can't assume their readers will react the same, especially not if they don't have a proven track record (I've got low sales (30 to 150 sales per book), but loyal readers).

I've been tracking book sales for some time, and always ask anyone I encounter who's charging something different to determine how his/her sales vary from the ordinary author, so I'm familiar with the ranges.

Would the 'issues' be his $19.99 price tag

I don't know what the issue was, but I do know it was during the period when Amazon was still insisting on authors not making the stories available on other sites.

I don't know what the issue was, but I do know it was during the period when Amazon was still insisting on authors not making the stories available on other sites.

Yeah, they finally dropped that restriction like a lead balloon at a children's policy, as no one was willing to accept it. Now, it only applies to Kindle Select, and a book only stays on Select for 90 days. But I'm not offing my latest Not-Quite Human boxed set (3 books consisting of over 300,000 words) because Amazon insists on pricing it as if it's only a single book, so that's a more reasonable assumption. :(

Though a LOT of authors absolutely despise Amazon, for a whole host of reasons, so you can pretty much take your pick of which one sets any author off.