Forum: Author Hangout

However, I'm one of those readers that many SOL writers despise - having been burned too many times with I&I stories, I only read complete stories. Sometimes, I'll still get burned when the story 'ends' unexpectedly, and there's a "Book 2 starts next week, same time" message.

That's why I mention in a blog post how many chapters each book has (and I only start posting once they are completed, edited, and proofread).

Sometimes, I'll still get burned when the story 'ends' unexpectedly, and there's a "Book 2 starts next week, same time" message.

The key with any sequel is to plan it in advance, rather than just reach the point they say "Damn, this won't fit in a single book!"

But, every story should reach a satisfactory conclusion, thus you'll typically have dual conflicts, the ultimate series conflict (between good and evil) and each individual book's central conflict, which helps if you predefine each, so you can finish after completing one, before begining the next by emphasizing that story's conflict, rather than merely continuing.

That way there's also a satisfying 'ah, that's done', allowing readers time to sit back and reflect on what they read, while anticipating where you'll take the sequel.

That said, I love twists. I love making the reader assume something about a character only to find themselves completely wrong. But I don't do this in a way that's going to set anyone off because of uncoded content.

I don't write MM stories. But I wrote a story called "The Hitchhiker" which was filled with MF sex the entire story (except at the end you find out it's not because the long-haired sexy "girl" is actually a boy).

So throughout the story, the reader is living a fantasy of picking up a girl who comes on to him. I don't remember the specifics, but the "girl" probably gives him a hand-job and blowjob in the car while he's driving. The reader is enjoying it because he thinks it's MF. It's only at the very end when they pull over and go into a corn field and the "girl" wants it up the ass that the guy reaches around to massage "her" clitoris only to find a dick. The man is grossed out and bolts out of there.

That story will never be on SOL.

But I wrote a story called "The Hitchhiker" which was filled with MF sex the entire story (except at the end you find out it's not because the long-haired sexy "girl" is actually a boy).

I was June of 2020 years old when I found out that the song, LOLA, was about MM sex. Lola was a transvestite.

just never paid attention to the lyrics before

I may have also thought the lyrics to Candy Girl were 'you are my kin, girl'

I grew up listening to country, and didn't start liking rock until I was out the house and already had some hearing damage.

Lola was a transvestite.

I just thought he was gay. That makes sense.

That story will never be on SOL.

You may be surprised. I'd always avoided writing MM scenes, before writing a gay romance story that was a memorial to my brother (dealing with an issue he always fought against). If a book is well-written, you won't see the typical one-bomb anti-gay votes. I'm not saying it won't happen, but not every gay story garners low votes overall.

You may be surprised. I'd always avoided writing MM scenes,

The reason is because the story codes, if coded accurately, would give the twist/surprise away and ruin the story. And if the codes weren't coded accurately, as people have said here over and over again, the author should be punished.

(2) As to the second one, I love stories with twists. I hate spoilers that ruin the twist.

A plot twist is NOT the protagonist suddenly decide to rape his main love interest, or deciding he suddenly wants to hogtie his pals and leave them in his trunk! Twists are, by definition, when the story's main characters reveals a hidden aspect of himself, which then deepens the readers' appreciation of the character, before he then self-corrects and returns to his core conflict, with renewed vigor to end the conflict once and for all.

There's really no reason to include squicks (though, my least-selling book features a 'near rape' in the final chapters, before the MC finally turns the tables, so that's cutting it pretty close.

But even in that case, that's a typical plot twist, as the final incident forces the MC to redouble their efforts (after they were close to giving up, unsure of what's real anymore), just before wrapping up the main conflict.

Twists are, by definition, when the story's main characters reveals a hidden aspect of himself, which then deepens the readers' appreciation of the character,

Did you ever see the Twilight Zone episode "To Serve Man"? Tell me what that twist at the end had anything to do with your definition. When a twist happens at the end (like in my story), it's a surprise ending.

Twists are, by definition, when the story's main characters reveals a hidden aspect of himself, which then deepens the readers' appreciation of the character,

Every definition I've read say it is a change in the story's plot, and has nothing to do with the character's aspects.

Every definition I've read say it is a change in the story's plot, and has nothing to do with the character's aspects.

Well, 'Incident at Owl Creek Bridge' would beg to differ.

I think the character's aspect of suddenly becoming dead is a serious hidden aspect.

Well, 'Incident at Owl Creek Bridge' would beg to differ.

Actually, it's: An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge

Seeing a short film version in Junior High created my love for twist endings (cf No Way Out). It also started my love for the writing of Ambrose Bierce (especially The Devil's Dictionary).

short film version in Junior High

You, too, huh? That must've been something going around about then. The minor detail that I've remembered it this long, even with slightly messing up the name, shows what an impression that film made.

You, too, huh? That must've been something going around about then. The minor detail that I've remembered it this long, even with slightly messing up the name, shows what an impression that film made.

There are a lot of things about 8th grade I don't remember. That one is starkly burned into my memory. I've seen it a few times since, but when I think about it, I always think about the classroom in which I was sitting. It was profound.

Well, 'Incident at Owl Creek Bridge' would beg to differ.

I think the character's aspect of suddenly becoming dead is a serious hidden aspect.

I don't know that one, but in "Sixth Sense" the Bruce Willis character at the end realizes he's dead. A lot of the story is about his character, his relationship with his wife and patients, but I saw the surprise ending as a plot twist.

A lot of the story is about his character, his relationship with his wife and patients, but I saw the surprise ending as a plot twist.

A plot twist is when the story heads in an all new direction, what you're referring to is technically a plot or character reversal, where something readers expect turns out to be incorrect. In my stories, that's the segment of the book where the main character begins to doubt his entire approach, withdrawing to consider his approach, before coming back, more dedicated and with an all-new approach. Thus turns, twists and reversals all signal separate things.

I think the character's aspect of suddenly becoming dead is a serious hidden aspect.

I haven't read the story. However, I interpret 'aspects' to mean the character's personality traits and past behavioral patterns. In that context, it is an outside influence changing the character, not the character's aspects causing the change. So I disagree with your post.

Well, 'Incident at Owl Creek Bridge' would beg to differ.

I think the character's aspect of suddenly becoming dead is a serious hidden aspect.

Again, there are plot turns, plot twists and plot reversals, each of which has different characteristics. Again, authors can follow the standard guidelines for each, but simply choosing to ignore the topic means that you're likely to step into the same holes that everyone else does. Knowing is prepared and able to adapt before reader issues occur.

Every definition I've read say it is a change in the story's plot, and has nothing to do with the character's aspects.

Like most literary issues, plot turns, twists and endings have been studied endlessly, and as a result, those most often used (i.e. the most effective have similar tendencies).

I was actually surprised that, while I use plot twists often, I've been putting them in the wrong place most of the time, as I stage them too soon to achieve the powerful ending I'm hoping for. By not planning the twists in advance, they end up as inefficient threads, rather than climatic endings.

rather than climatic endings.

A lot of authors start a story with the weather ("It was a dark and stormy night") but not many end with it. Respect, then, to Cheryl Terra for her recent story, 'When It Rains'. I really enjoyed it.

AJ

I loved that story! It sucks you in right at the start and doesn't let go. Excellent plotting--I never saw that twist coming. The twist sent me back to the first chapter to read it very carefully, and everything fit. Excellent style--again, that first chapter could be read at the surface level without suspecting anything. The antagonist's reason for her hatred may seem petty, but combined with her character explains everything neatly. The sex is fairly realistic. Hard not to sing that story's praises!

Hard not to sing that story's praises!

Sadly it seems to have escaped the notice of the site's reviewers :-(

AJ

Hopefully it's just a matter of time.

I haven't figured out how to do that. I just now managed to add the story to my favorites list.

One of Cheryl's stories already has a review, by Bud_Ugly, who awarded straight 10s.

AJ

After the story is completely posted nobody remembers when the voting was switched on :)

Trust me, those who see 'turn off voting' as a trick tend to always remember the authors who do it!

I've heard folks claim they write only for themselves, and I don't believe a word of it.

I'm one of those folks, Bondi. I take great pleasure in writing for several reasons. A few of those reasons are it keeps my mind engaged, I like to create a story that I find interesting, and it fills in a lot of time. I do share my writing with others by posting, and I do take pleasure from that. You could do away with the rating system, feedback, download counts, and all the rest of that, and I would still write and post.

Maybe a few others, but I suspect most of them just went for free premier status and then quit.

This pretty much sums me up to a T. Except that when I gained premier status, I ended up hanging around like a bad fart in a lift.

That being said, I have found that I also enjoy the challenge of writing about subjects I have absolutely no knowledge or interest in. I also like to have a bit of fun, like shoe-horning BBC 2's 'Red Dwarf' into a story, trying a 'twist' ending with 'Penny' or dropping a random gymnastics story upon the masses, and a killer nun, because the world needs more killer nuns...

because the world needs more killer nuns...

Not sure if you mean that as in nuns that are sexy or homicidal or both. Hmm, super sexy nuns that kill by fucking people to death!! Now there's an idea for a stroke story.

typo correction

Not sure if you mean that as in nuns that are sexy or homicidal or both. Hmm, super sexy nuns that kill by fucking people to death!! Now there's an idea for a stroke story.

You could try this: Nude Nuns With Big Guns (IMDB link). :-)

Hmm, super sexy nuns that kill by fucking people to death!! Now there's an idea for a stroke story.

Already on the case!

It's okay to have sex with a nun but you shouldn't get into a habit!

And if you do, I hope you use the correct cross-dressing tags...

You beat me to it. She didn't care what readers wanted she did what and how she wanted. I miss her writings.

That said, one reason she had so many nom de plumes is because she'd always protect her scores by hiding her most offensive posts under a new ID.

Crumb, all rache's haters could've recognized by writing style. Or they should've. rache had a way with words that I've not seen anyone successfully duplicate.

True, but just as many authors vary speaking styles between characters, Rache often modified her writing style (somewhat) between certain specific IDs. It wasn't widespread, but limited to certain specific IDs (presumably to separate her personas).

I think it would be more believable if you could find someone who consistently got 3's and 4's and still kept posting. I haven't run across any authors like that.

No, but many are perfectly happy continually posting stories with weighted average scores in the 5-range.

I have no issues reading stories that only post weekly

The problem with reading a story that isn't finished yet, other than the obvious that it might never get finished, is the cliffhanger. It doesn't have to be an actual life and death cliffhanger, but something happens that you really want to find out what happens next.

I don't see those as a problem. I actually believe it's good writing getting the reader to turn the next page. But if the story is complete, the decision is the reader's whether or not to start the next chapter. When the next chapter isn't there, it leaves them hanging.

With Covid-19 stay-at-home, I've been binge-watching "Grey's Anatomy" (I never watched it prior to being stuck at home looking for something to watch). I finished the last episode for year-11 last night ( think it's on its 16th season). There were many episodes that made me watch the next. If I were watching it real-time, I'd have to wait. It's the same with a story.

There were many episodes that made me watch the next. If I were watching it real-time, I'd have to wait. It's the same with a story.

Ditto. I binge-watched it as well. If you want pure cliffhangers and twists in every episode, check out '24' (Jack Bauer). It drove my daughter to distraction even getting discs from Netflix as there was always a wait between discs (because we didn't tie up our entire subscription with '24').

I don't see those as a problem. I actually believe it's good writing getting the reader to turn the next page. But if the story is complete, the decision is the reader's whether or not to start the next chapter. When the next chapter isn't there, it leaves them hanging.

Growing up waiting to find out who shot J.R., and with shows that if you missed it, you missed it because VCR's were brand new and expensive when I was a kid, means I like the serials that hearten back to radio and early cinema.

That said, I'm seldom swayed by that appeal. I have more than enough series characters running.

I actually just asked my Patrons for a character about whom they would like to see a side story or vignette.

Runners and joggers are pretty rare as characters, at least on SOL.

Rarer still are joggers with the runs.

I found then that girls were even a better source than Henry Miller.

You do realize that Anaïs Nin and Henry Miller had a long term affair, don't you?

he only real onscreen squick will be anal

I am constantly amazed by what some people react to as a squick.

In the 'The Transmogrification of Jacob Hopkins is safe to read?' thread, the OP stated cheating, swinging, rape, sharing, and gang bang were his squicks. I also recall a thread in which a poster stated that for him incest was a squick. I can see some of those as bothering a person, but would never have considered some of them to be a problem for anyone who reads adult fiction.

Adding codes for what you know are people's squicks is good, but be prepared for feedback about things you never considered as a possible squick. If the story is about incest, it will be onscreen and some people find incest to be a squick.

Good luck on your story.

The funny thing is that I'm not writing an incest story to be writing an incest story. I'm writing an incest story as a means of cutting out a whole bunch of what would otherwise be extraneous to what I'm trying to do with the story. For example, relationship building. Yes, I could spend a chapter or three doing gooey romantic stuff--especially since I know the incest tag will squick out a good chunk of my audience. Take a brother and sister and BAM! A relationship can be assumed while still allowing room for growth.

On the "off screen" stuff, I have the word of a webmaster I do not need to code it, so with one exception, I'm going to stick to that.

Exactly my attitude.

John went through kindergarten; so did Mary; then they met as adults. You aren't going to tell s about their going through kindergarten; is it necessary to tell us about their meeting? Sometimes, it is, but often it is not.

The MC in my Good Medicine series was in a relationship with a young woman from Kindergarten. The story starts with their graduation from High School. The important details are filled in over the course of the story.

Personal prejudice of mine. Start with your characters in a relationship. Tell the story which is the story you want to tell.

In a sense, that is what I'm doing. Like I said, we have a brother and sister--BAM! Instant relationship. Sexual exploration is the theme of the story, so I do feel that if I use unrelated characters, it would be necessary to show them building the kind of mutual trust necessary to, as one of my readers said, "try new things with each other without feeling at risk for rejection."

Actually, right now, I'd be happy with complaining about a squick I didn't foresee. Indeed, any review that is more than "Good job, keep going" would make my day.

but be prepared for feedback about things you never considered as a possible squick.

In my case (as the author) it was cheating that surprised me. I included the story code, but many people said it was a squick. I believe because many people have been cheated on and it hit home.

My first novel was rejected by a traditional publisher because it included adultery. The adultery is justified (can't tell you why here), but the editor told me to change the wife to a fiancee (I guess it's not adultery if she's not married). When I explained why she had to be married, the editor agreed but said her hands were tied because adultery is one of the no-nos in the romance genre.

Things sometimes make absolutely no sense.

Is it air to expect the reader to do so?

I'll read the tags before I start to read a story, and think it's fair to expect me to. That's why I strongly object to the 'I'll add codes as I go' authors. To me the add codes as they go is a clear statement of the author not knowing what they're doing and no one should read the story until after they finally finish it.

I'll read the tags before I start to read a story, and think it's fair to expect me to. That's why I strongly object to the 'I'll add codes as I go' authors. To me the add codes as they go is a clear statement of the author not knowing what they're doing and no one should read the story until after they finally finish it.

That's a fair point. However, I think it should be pointed out that it doesn't necessarily meant the author doesn't know what they're doing. I read an author's note about how he had not planned on doing a bondage scene; it was a reader who suggested it and pointed how it would be fitting for the characters. The story itself went on to win two Golden Clitorides. That's not an author who doesn't know what he is doing.

Or take the story I'm writing. There are things I know the characters are going to wind up doing. So I could easily tag that stuff now, and partly because of your remarks, I am seriously considering doing so. On the other hand, there is a sense that I am following my characters just as much as I am driving them. For example, I had not expected to do three chapters of petting and mutual masturbation. Might they decide to do something I totally didn't expect? Possibly, and if so I would still want to retain the flexibility of adding those codes later on.