Forum: Bug Report and Feature Requests

The first problem is caused by caching as is mentioned in this forum multiple times over the last few months. I believe someone stated that it only happens in flat view. That's the view I also prefer so I see it happening too.

Even in flat view it doesn't affect every thread, and the threads that are affected take a lot longer to clear than what has been stated as the refresh cycle on the back end.

Quite frankly the problem seems to follow comments by particular users.

The first problem is caused by caching as is mentioned in this forum multiple times over the last few months. I believe someone stated that it only happens in flat view. That's the view I also prefer so I see it happening too.

I don't believe it's a caching problem since appending ?r=1 to the URL gives exactly the same results; the ?r= is (or at least, was) used elsewhere on the site specifically for the purpose of defeating caching. This shows that if it is caching, it is purely internal to the site and under Lazeez's control (the ?r=1 changes the URL, defeating ISP caching, but unless the page explicitly reads the variable r it has no effect on the page content).

ETA: the adding ?r=1 only applies to the thread URL https://storiesonline.net/d/s6/t9060/possible-out-of-sync ; for particular post URLs (like this one, https://storiesonline.net/d/s6/t9060/possible-out-of-sync?a=a158306#po158306 it becomes &r=1 embedded before the # https://storiesonline.net/d/s6/t9060/possible-out-of-sync?a=a158306&r=1#po158306

I have noticed that when this problem occurs and can be worked round by switching to threaded view and back to flat,

1/ the 'missing' post which was shown in threaded view is still missing on return to flat view (until there is another post to the thread or a lot of time expires, anyway),

2/ the thread is no longer marked as having unread posts in the threads listing (all by date, for me), which with 1/ shows an inconsistency in the site state, and

3/ a new post to the thread (AOT a reply post) appears immediately with no issues, dragging the 'missing' post with it, regardless of how long the 'caching issue' has been apparent.

Also, it may be relevant that the 'missing' post is (as far as I've seen) always a reply to an individual post rather than to the thread (i.e. is indented in thread view), though I've not yet tried to characterise this aspect. That's probably significant because this problem arose when threaded view was added (ETA or at least when posts the thread were assigned as replies to the first post). It also ties in with DS's observation of affecting particular posters, as people will tend to reply to thread or reply to individul posts, but rarely both; it frequently occurs for Vincent Berg's posts since he seems to always reply to particular posts.

This shows that if it is caching, it is purely internal to the site and under Lazeez's control

Which is what Lazeez has said. He has it caching the forum posts on the back end server at 5 minute intervals.

He has it caching the forum posts on the back end server at 5 minute intervals.

... which is inconsistent with LupusDei's and sunseeker's observation of 15 mins, and my own unrecorded observation of a couple of hours (some time ago now, so the site may have changed since). That's not saying Lazeez doesn't have the 5-min cache turnover, but rather that there is some other issue as well - it doesn't matter how frequently the cache is rebuilt, if it's rebuilt with missing posts, then pages will be served with missing posts.

That's not saying Lazeez doesn't have the 5-min cache turnover, but rather that there is some other issue as well -

One possible problem is that the cache is not turning over as often as Lazeez thinks it is.

But I don't think that's the problem.

My observation is that this doesn't happen to every thread and the problem seems to follow comments by specific users.

My observation is that this doesn't happen to every thread and the problem seems to follow comments by specific users.

It just started happening to me a few days ago so. Every thread. It wasn't happening when I first read about it a while back so I doubt I'm one of your "specific users" it happens to.

And changing from threaded to flat view and vice versa doesn't do anything, though if I make a post I can then see the earlier one.

wasn't happening when I first read about it a while back so I doubt I'm one of your "specific users" it happens to.

I think you misunderstood. I seem to see the delay on a given tread after one of several particular users has posted a comment. I'm not saying those users are seeing the delay.

I think you misunderstood. I seem to see the delay on a given tread after one of several particular users has posted a comment. I'm not saying those users are seeing the delay.

I doubt Lazeez has black/white lists for posters on the forum ;)
I think it's possible that it has to do with the timing of a reply: whether or not a reply is created while the parent post is still waiting in the cache.

I doubt Lazeez has black/white lists for posters on the forum ;)

Again, that's not even close to what I was suggesting, but frequently I will see multiple threads with new comments at the same time and only one is having the delay problem.

And, since I'm still here, I only see above comment in flat view. (I expect the reply to reveal it in threaded too, if not, will edit this).

Edit: And it didn't!

In threaded view, I still don't see Dominions Son 2021.10.2. 23:27:09 post, nor my own (!) reply.

I have noticed that when this problem occurs and can be worked round by switching to threaded view and back to flat,

This problem was definitely introduced with the threaded view and it does only occur in flat view. That's too bad since the threaded view is awful and not what I would expect from a threaded view. first line post with no new replies should be collapsed because without it you have to scroll the whole page to see the new posts. With flat view they are all nicely at the bottom starting with the first unread post.
Switching to threaded and back to flat is no option because the unread posts will no longer be unread. And you have to repeat it with every section/thread.
As you said the caching is internal to the site. Like others I am completely missing posts for very long times and I suspect some never appear. I created a new topic in bug reports and after I saw that the new topic was created it completely disappeared afterwards. The whole topic gone. Not sure if this is related to same problem but it's clearly an other indication that flat view is not working as it did before the threaded view was introduced.
I wonder how many forum visitors like the current threaded view better than the flat view. I find it looking cluttered and confusing.

This problem was definitely introduced with the threaded view and it does only occur in flat view.

Not true.

I have only used thread view since it was introduced and that's where I see it happening. (Simply never switched it, and well, have no personal problem with it).

All the talk about caching... caching is fine and necessary, and I wouldn't mind any if certain or any posts appeared to distant viewers within fifteen minutes or even more, the problem here is the state discrepancy. The tread title shouldn't get updated status until the new post is in fact available, even if those appear with significantly old posting times then.

Update: actually, the opposite seems to be true for me. Just right now, on the thread https://storiesonline.net/d/s2/t9069/straight-measurement there was two replies I couldn't see in thread view. Switching to flat view revealed them to me. Switching back hid them again. Now, that's definitely weird behavior.

The posts are (local timestamps):

Keet 2021.10.2. 22:25:30

Switch Blayde 2021.10.2. 22:35:01

Updated: 2021.10.2. 22:35:22

As of 23:08 I still see those only in flat view, and not in threaded view. Both are first level replies to the original post of the tread.

Since, I saw several other comments only visible in flat view, until sometime in last few minutes it seems all my threaded views updated, possibly all at one. I also noticed a very fresh comment somewhere, in threaded view.

As of 23:08 I still see those only in flat view, and not in threaded view. Both are first level replies to the original post of the tread.

That's weird because several others posting about this problem have said it's a flat view problem. Apparently it occurs in either view which sounds more logical anyway.

enough, this very tread right now has status as updated and

[Last: Keet]Replies: 1

Last updated: 2021.09.30. 13:59:39

While I don't see any post as of 14:14 by local device clock (with should be network syncing).

Update: the reply by Keet appeared when I refreshed after posting this.

Adding your own comment and refreshing seems to give you an uncached view of the thread.

One can profit from selling confit...

Possibly relevant: I had just posted in the thread myself when the problem occurred.

It's possible I added then deleted a comment to clear the delay problem on my end.

Interestingly, to see Dominion Son replies I switched to flat view. That worked for each of them. But then I forgot to switch back to threaded view, and now Keet had posted there and I don't see that in either view.

So, as of now:

- if your default is treaded view, some cached replies may not be visible for a long time (up to and possibly over half an hour), but can be reliably viewed by switching to flat view;

- if your default is flat view... you're screwed because the replies don't show up in either view.

I can now see the post in question in both threaded and flat view.

I'm having the same problem again with that same thread... forum view insisted there was an unread post, and listed awnlee jawking as the most recent poster, but in threaded view, I could not see any new posts — the most recent one I could see was by Dominions Son — and reading the thread didn't clear the "unread post" indicator.

Force-reloading didn't help. I switched to flat view, and the missing post appeared. Switched back to threaded view, and it disappeared again, and the "unread post" indicator went away. It's almost fifteen minutes now since awnlee jawking posted, and I still can't see it in threaded view, but if I switch to flat view, it pops right up.

I'm not the previous most recent poster in the thread this time; Dominions Son was.

I'm wondering if it might be related to a mismatch in which views the poster and the reader are using, if the cache might be getting updated for the view the poster is using, but not immediately for the other?

... and now it's claiming that there's a new post by Keet, and I can't see it in either view, and the "unread post" indicator does not clear.

Still can't see the awnlee jawking post in threaded view, either.

They might be commenting and then deleting their comment just to force a refresh to get around the delay comment on their end.

I thought that was the culprit, but it happens too frequently.

Right now with the huge delays, it's an effective way past the delay, so I would expect it to happen a lot right now.

They might be commenting and then deleting their comment just to force a refresh to get around the delay comment on their end.

That's not what was happening. I could flip back and forth between threaded and flat views and the post would appear and disappear repeatedly, and the posting time on it did not change.

I think I fixed the issue with the flat/threaded caching discrepancy.

Hallelujah! Or something like that :)
Was it a posting in flatview, not seeing in threaded view and v.v. problem?

Nope, I'm still seeing the issue on this very thread.

It says the thread is updated, but Lazeez's comment is still the last one I see.

You don't see Keet's at 12:46:09?

I didn't until after I refreshed after posting my comment.

That means all those times I saw the green dot without a new post there probably was a new post that I could have seen if I refreshed it.

Note: I'm not talking about a browser refresh. That does not work. I'm talking about the refresh button/link that gets put in by the SOL server after you post a comment.

Well, maybe the browser refresh would work after posting a new comment of your own. The main thing for getting around the delayed comments is to post your own comment.

The main thing for getting around the delayed comments is to post your own comment.

Nope, even that didn't work for me at same point. At least at the worst of it I didn't see my own reply to a certain post of yours in thread view, as reported above as it happened:

LupusDei 2021.10.2. 23:31:35
Updated: 2021.10.2. 23:34:28

@Dominions Son
And, since I'm still here, I only see above comment in flat view. (I expect the reply to reveal it in threaded too, if not, will edit this).

Edit: And it didn't!

In threaded view, I still don't see Dominions Son 2021.10.2. 23:27:09 post, nor my own (!) reply.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)2021.10.5. 20:40:22

@LupusDei
I think I fixed the issue with the flat/threaded caching discrepancy.

Unfortunately I'm not so sure. Just now I did see

Keet 2021.10.7. 17:18:42

exclusively in flat view again, until about 17:50 it was on very big thread so double checking took a quite a bit, and eventually I found it, after second back and forth switching, but it wasn't there the first time I opened the tread in threaded view.

Then, I don't seem to see the yellow dates discussed here today, so perhaps I'm still on old code on my phone

Does anyone know what that's supposed to mean?

I can't give a definitive answer, only Lazeez can do that, but my observation is that the yellow highlight on some timestamps is applied to those posts made within the prior 24hr, regardless of the read/unread status of the post (grey background shading). My supposition is that this is intended to make it easier to find unread posts in threaded view, I can't work out any other rationale.

some topics but not others

I've not yet worked out why some threads remain unhighlighted; I had suspected that the highlighting was applied only on threads I had posted to, but I was able to discount that.

persistence with 32-bit browsers

Me too

It helps particularly in threaded view when somebody revives a big thread where recent replies may be hard to spot, so they get the yellow highlight making them easier to notice quickly while scrolling.

That is why I don't use the threaded view. You have to scroll from the first unread post to the bottom to see all new posts. Sometimes there is a huge amount of posts between unread posts so thats a lot of scrolling. The yellow helps but what actually would be better is if posts without unread replies are collapsed. I understand that that is a difficult thing to implement without a complete rebuild. With the flatview I have all unread posts at the bottom starting with the first unread post. A good addition for the current threaded view would be that you have a jump link to the next unread post so you don't have to scroll.

The yellow helps but what actually would be better is if posts without unread replies are collapsed.

Even better would be a button to jump to the next unread post.

Even better would be a button to jump to the next unread post.

I did say that in the same post:

A good addition for the current threaded view would be that you have a jump link to the next unread post so you don't have to scroll.

Interesting I haven't seen it getting worse, but all of the last 4 or 5 occurrences were after you were the last commenter on a thread.

Since

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster) 2021.10.7. 22:25:54

I've redone the caching code.

I haven't noticed this again even once.

the anonymous site

??

It's an extra SOL subscription feature which allows you to use a different URL than storiesonline,net. It allows SOL access for those on a network where the URL storiesonline.net is blocked. I just buy the full package to support SOL. I'm on my own network so I can use either.

I think I finally got it fixed. (yes, I did say that before)

Thank you! It was getting really bothersome. Dominions Son did have a point when he said it was particular to my posts :)