I just saw an ad on TV for hearing aids. The commentator said the aid was the size of a pencil eraser. Since a lot of authors on SOL describe nipples as being the size of pencil erasers, I was wondering if I could get those in my ears instead of the hearing aids. I wouldn't hear much but I imagine I wouldn't care at all.
How about organ stops - would they work for you? :)
organ stops as against organ ends, hmmm - interesting question.
Actually, my point was that people need to come up with some original descriptions, not just for nipples but for every aspect of sex. We read the same descriptions over and over ad nauseam. Nipples are pencil erasers, an anus is a rosebud, a clitoris is a love button, and so forth. Originality is one of the qualities of good writing. We should applaud it when we find it.
I thought Rosebud was a sled ... :)
Nope, it was an attack command for two Doberman pinchers. See if you catch this reference!
attack command for two Doberman pinchers
Who is stealing the Doberman (Pinschers)? Perhaps Colombo will know.
I don't think it's as simple as that. When you're writing to a genre, there's a certain expectation that a story will conform to the genre norms. If you're writing a stroke story, originality is probably a poor idea because you might make the reader stop and think!
AJ
I don't think it's as simple as that. When you're writing to a genre, there's a certain expectation that a story will conform to the genre norms. If you're writing a stroke story, originality is probably a poor idea because you might make the reader stop and think!
Genre expectations are one thing, but the inability to describe something is more symptomatic of bigger problems than that. A universal rule for all authors is: if you can't say something without stealing overused descriptions, it's better left unsaid. That'll force them to invest a little time into considering how something is said.
There have been some phenomenal erotic authors over the years, so why do we all model ourselves over the worst?
What are the best cliches with which to replace the old cliches?
How about:
Her erect nipples called me enticingly, like little tongues, motioning me towards them, begging me to devour them even as her eyes continued to say 'what the fuck?'.
What are the best cliches with which to replace the old cliches?
Get rid of the cliches altogether. If you want to write an "original" story, it can't just be a compilation of cliches strung together - that's one step above plagiarism. In fact, that could be a definition of cliche - a description that has been plagiarized by many people for a long time. Originality requires effort and thought. Using cliches is a sign of a lack of imagination and effort.
In fact, that could be a definition of cliche - a description that has been plagiarized by many people for a long time. Originality requires effort and thought.
The only time you can legitimately use a cliche, is in dialogue (as it's considered a common dialogue technique). However, even there, you've got to be very careful not to overuse it, otherwise your dialogue will be incredibly boring, just as it is when you speak to someone who keeps saying "Uh ..." every three words.
The only time you can legitimately use a cliche, is in dialogue
Everyone needs to remember that they became cliche's because of the fact they worked. Everyone either understands them or in the case of different languages can have them easily explained. But you are right their proper usage is when spoken/dialog needs to be used. Cliche's are really shortcuts to get a generic meaning across to the listener without having to go into huge details.
For example one day I took almost an hour to describe a fix because the man I was talking to was black. Because of the PC reaction to the N word. Finally I apologized and used that 2 word phrase. We both laughed over my attempt to avoid offending him. I should have used that 2 word expression in the first place which would have saved us both time.
Phrase was: "Nigger rigged". Explained real quick how I repaired something when I didn't have the right tools and parts for the repair.
Phrase was: "Nigger rigged". Explained real quick how I repaired something when I didn't have the right tools and parts for the repair.
Start a trend - down her we call that a jury rig - damned if I know why. But wikipedia has a info I'd not seen before:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_rigging
note the similar phrases section.
Start a trend - down her we call that a jury rig - damned if I know why.
These days most often you'll hear people talking about "Bodgey it up." A rough and ready, quick and dirty fix.
"Bodgey it up."
I've heard both, and I've always understood a Bodgy job to mean they don't expect it to last more than a couple of hours and may work only imperfectly, while a Jury rig is expected to be a better quality and a longer lasting job. There's also an inherent implication that when you go to do a proper fix there's likely to be as much extra damage from the bodgy job as from the original, but not so with a jury rig.
An example I've seen. Light hit by two cars in a parking lot, only the tail lights were damage on one side of each car. One person did a bodgy job by using duct-tape to tape over the whole damage area, and you could hardly see the lights working. The other guy did a jury rig job, by going into a nearby store to buy some cling-wrap, and cleaned the side of the car around the damaged light. He set some pieces of the plastic back in place while it's held there by the cling-wrap. Once he had it all back in place he used a lot more cling wrap over a larger area to see it stayed on longer. You could see the light work.
Both kept the rain out of the car, but one did a better job, and was less likely to get pulled over by the cops while waiting for the part.
I have used both Jury-rigged and Nigger-rigged at times. Funny part is the jury-rigged is usually expected to create more problems and the nigger-rigged is expected to be longer lasting, just not the proper parts on materials required. And its funny how many uses Duct-tape has in every toolbox.
Duct-tape has in every toolbox.
Years ago I saw a photo of a joke gift which had a cheap plastic box with a roll of duct-tape, a claw hammer, a single blade knife, and a single screwdriver in it with the title of Redneck Tool Kit on it. The sad thing is I know people who have tool kits with just those four items in it sitting in their car.
I was brought up to use 'worked like a nigger' to mean that an individual worked hard and with good results. It's sad how the positive connotations of 'nigger' have been thrown out with the negative ones.
AJ
I was brought up to use 'worked like a nigger' to mean that an individual worked hard and with good results. It's sad how the positive connotations of 'nigger' have been thrown out with the negative ones.
Of course, that's because those people worked so hard, because they'd be strung up from a tree if they didn't do four times the work at a fraction of the cost!
Some terms are offense for a reason, not because of the honest work of those involved, but because of the dishonest work of those dictating the work.
Of course, that's because those people worked so hard, because they'd be strung up from a tree if they didn't do four times the work at a fraction of the cost!
If that were the only reason, the expression should have quickly died out following emancipation.
I can also remember the expression 'work like a navvy', based mainly on the workers who constructed the American railroads.
AJ
If that were the only reason, the expression should have quickly died out following emancipation.
Sorry, but I never ONCE suggested my example was based on the days of slavery. Personally, I was thinking of the 50s and 60s, when I was around to watch the people involved.
In the times of Jim Crow, few blacks were given the same opportunities, much as happens today. As such, they had to make due in order to survive. It isn't the dead who're remembered, it's those who made a difference in difficult circumstances.
I have used both Jury-rigged and Nigger-rigged at times. Funny part is the jury-rigged is usually expected to create more problems and the nigger-rigged is expected to be longer lasting, just not the proper parts on materials required.
"Jury rigged" (I'm guessing) references rigged juries, which typically stand, despite any protests, despite the harm they do to those involved. "Nigger rigged" is an (old-timey) credit to how poor blacks would often manage to do better work than the highly paid white (mainly during the 50s and 60 here in the U.S.) for little money. Thus many of the more open-minded of the time would seek out workers in the black community to do various repairs, rather than going with contractors.
It wasn't a pleasant time for those involved, but such actions benefited both sides, while the law consistently looked down on such cooperation.
"Nigger rigged" is an (old-timey) credit to how poor blacks would often manage to do better work
Basically it refers I think to the way they had to make whatever was available work. Since many times the required parts or whatever either wasn't available to them or too high a cost. Didn't mean it was lousy work however. More the attitude behind it. Of course many whites among other races also had the same problems.
In my area of Texas it's known as 'Southern Engineering', and is an accepted way of getting round a problem.
Like most cliche's its easily understood. I think that is one of the major requirements for anything to become a cliche, but then it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.
I would tend to agree. If it needs to be explained then people wouldn't use it as explanation would defeat the purpose. That may also be why some clichés don't travel well.
Like most cliche's its easily understood. I think that is one of the major requirements for anything to become a cliche, but then it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.
The entire point in writing isn't to 'sound like everyone else'. Instead, it's to create original works which stand out from others, even when discussing similar topics. In dialogue, you want the discussion to sound like a normal conversation, in part, to flavor who the characters are, but just tossing in whatever cliche comes to mind doesn't make your story stand out in any way. Virtually any author can "piston away like a piledriver", but few can get away with it. There's a thin line between convenient and forgettable.
"Jury rigged" (I'm guessing) references rigged juries, which typically stand, despite any protests, despite the harm they do to those involved
Jury rigging refers to repairs to sailing ships, often necessary after a severe storm, but when proper materials weren't available. It is in fact a compliment to those who did the work.
Jury rigging refers to repairs to sailing ships, often necessary after a severe storm, but when proper materials weren't available. It is in fact a compliment to those who did the work.
You're absolutely right. Despite knowing that (having spent much of my life along the coast and in port cities, it completely slipped my mind.
Bodgey it up.
In English English, the verb is bodge and the result would be a bodge or a bodge job.
The pejorative use does not reflect the etymological origins - a bodger used to be a necessary and respected contributor in the wooden furniture industry.
AJ
Thank You!
As someone who spent a little time as a bodger, it is actually an extremely important profession, but one that mostly operates under the radar and by word of mouth / reputation.
Edit for typo
Phrase was: "Nigger rigged". Explained real quick how I repaired something when I didn't have the right tools and parts for the repair.
In some sections the phrase "farmer-rigged" would be more pertinent. That aside, there's a multitude of ways to describe that repair without being offensive, which would be the better choice.
As far as cliches go, it really takes very little skill to avoid them; and only a little effort to say the same thing using words of your own choosing.
In some sections the phrase "farmer-rigged" would be more pertinent. That aside, there's a multitude of ways to describe that repair without being offensive, which would be the better choice.
Although not any less offensive, I've heard the term "afro-engineered" used.
As far as cliches go, it really takes very little skill to avoid them; and only a little effort to say the same thing using words of your own choosing.
Sometimes that works fine. The problems occur when you have to go through a large description in order to replace those small simple phrases. My problem was I didn't want to risk offending the man since I didn't know him well enough. Sure other phrases or expressions could also work, but when it takes that long to explain something when its unneeded. Its a waste of time for everyone involved. Sometimes the best solution is that unwanted cliche. Me and that plumber both laughed over my trying to avoid its usage after finally figuring out what I was trying to say.
edited to add: Cliches got the labels because they work and their common usage and understanding. Not because of them being proper usage.
As far as cliches go, it really takes very little skill to avoid them; and only a little effort to say the same thing using words of your own choosing.
That's what most offends me about those stories (which rely on such terrible cliches): the authors just don't care about the quality of their writing enough to even consider a substitution. It's not that they can't come up with alternatives, they just don't give a damn about their own creations. That is the definition of "dodgy construction" if I've ever heard one!
they just don't give a damn about their own creations.
You are right in some cases; but not all.
If you were to sit down somewhere where a large number of people are talking, you would hear them using clichés. Clichés are a standard means of expressing your thoughts relative to something your listener is familiar with. Granted use of clichés often introduces misunderstanding between the speaker and listener.
As a writer, I try to emulate the manner in which I and other people speak. I do this because I want to write a good story with realistic dialog. I have found that when I think about a topic, I sometimes use clichés. If in a normal conversation, I or another person might use a cliché then I may add it to my characters' dialog.
In a different thread some time back, there was a discussion of whether the MC's/narrator's thoughts were narrative or dialog. Narrative because they weren't spoken or dialog because it was a silent conversation. I currently classify my MC's/narrator's thoughts expressed in the narrative as a conversation with himself to be "Internal Dialog". If a cliché is appropriate for use in dialog, then it would also be appropriate for use in narrative that is written as Internal Dialog.
I currently classify my MC's/narrator's thoughts expressed in the narrative as a conversation with himself to be "Internal Dialog". If a cliché is appropriate for use in dialog, then it would also be appropriate for use in narrative that is written as Internal Dialog.
That's a vital distinction, which I support, but for the majority of authors, narrative in narrative, and all 3rd person omni is, effectively, essentially written by God himself.
However, in that case, you either need to identify who's speaking, or provide enough context to allow the readers to figure it out for themselves (i.e. determine what the narrators POV is).
Nigger rigged
Afro Engineering. Probably (hell, most certainly) not PC, but it avoids the dreaded 'N' word.
Afro Engineering. Probably (hell, most certainly) not PC, but it avoids the dreaded 'N' word.
The problem with having to keep our language PC is so many terms that worked to communicate so much, became lost. Everyone since the PC situation became a requirement has been struggling to come up with adequate replacements, most of the time we (I) fail to find and equal replacement.
most of the time we (I) fail to find and equal replacement
Isn't that the whole point of Newspeak? ;)
AJ
Everyone since the PC situation became a requirement has been struggling to come up with adequate replacements,
Leaves me wondering what they now call those pieces of coral that have been called Nigger Heads for hundreds of years.
Leaves me wondering what they now call those pieces of coral that have been called Nigger Heads for hundreds of years.
My mother, to this very day, refers to Brazilian nuts as "nigger toes" because of the dark skin covering them. She's always been a sweet, even-tempered lady who went out of her way to help everyone, but she's refused to drop the term from her vocabulary, though she blushes whenever she uses the term.
@richardshagrin
Can you still say Niger River or Nigeria?
Yes, because the terms have nothing to do with the infamous N-word, other than using similar letters.
Since a lot of authors on SOL describe nipples as being the size of pencil erasers,
Perhaps those pencil-sized nipples are actually hearing aids. After all, women say we men are always talking to their tits. :)
My pencil eraser is made from some synthetic substance, is bright orange, rectangular and was about two inches long originally.
I haven't seen any nipples or hearing aids matching that description :)
AJ
My pencil eraser is made from some synthetic substance, is bright orange, rectangular and was about two inches long originally.
No, that's just an eraser. A pencil eraser is the small cylindrical eraser that comes attached to a pencil.
A pencil eraser is the small cylindrical eraser that comes attached to a pencil.
https://pixabay.com/en/pencil-superglue-pointless-hexastix-1819062/
but it could be real fun if they mean this one
https://teacherpeach.com/products/we-dream-big-jumbo-display-pencil
And there was me thinking it was an eraser designed to erase pencil rather than ink.
Divided by a common language?
AJ
Divided by a common language?
The last time I went to a Garage Sale the guy got angry when I offered fifty bucks for the steel garage he had.
Then there was the time a local mall was having a Monster Sale but refused to show or sell me any decent monsters.
Buying boots at a Boot Sale is almost as hard as buying fleas at a Flea Market.
Lets not talk about a baby sale, or all the Drug Stores that lie. Walgreens doesn't have green walls, Bartells (a local Washington State chain) doesn't tell people about bars, Rite-Aid also helps left handed people. So much false advertising.
How come Kentucky Fried Chicken is still hot by the time it reaches the UK? :)
Because the head cook appointed in every KFC store is named Kentucky.
Walgreens doesn't have green walls
AFIK: Walgreen is the founder's surname.
(sound of these plays on words going over your head)
All right, instead of everyone bitching about lack of originality, let's do something about it. Let's dedicate this one thread to providing solutions, descriptions other authors are free to use to describe the erotic basics.
Here's mine:
Her nipples were like busted springs, juggling up and down, drawing my eyes despite whatever she said, begging my fingers to reach out and grasp them. They spoke to me in a way her conversation never could.
She walked with a bouncing stride; her breasts jiggled like Slinky-hung molded Jello.
"Slinky-Hung", that's my porn-name. :)
Here's mine:
Her nipples were like busted springs, juggling up and down, drawing my eyes despite whatever she said, begging my fingers to reach out and grasp them. They spoke to me in a way her conversation never could.
Her nipples were like a pair of googley-eyed novelty glasses. Sometimes they looked cross-eyed at each other. Other times they pointed in different directions like Marty Feldman's eyes. Mostly they just bounced around, giving me a headache trying to track them.
Nipple descriptions are often as unrealistic as dick descriptions, and can be a major turn-off. Inch long nipples? Gross...
So far the pencil eraser description is still looking like the best. It could be why it's used so often to describe nipples of that size.
Without nipples, breasts would be pointless.
No pun intended, right?Without nipples, breasts would be pointless.
It's one of those very few points of fact, that are correct no matter how you interpret it.
:-)
Without nipples, breasts would be pointless.
Unfortunately, in reality, you're also absolutely correct. Not to be a downer in this conversation, but I can speak from experience on this one.
My wife had to have double radical mastectomies 15 years ago. They were able to reconstruct and give her breasts, but since they basically removed everything, including the nipples and nerves, the only sensation she gets now when I kiss and fondle her breasts is the same as if I were kissing her shoulder - just skin, in other words.
Yeah, it sucks, but it beats the alternative.
The commentator said the aid was the size of a pencil eraser. Since a lot of authors on SOL describe nipples as being the size of pencil erasers
OK so what about centimetre long pencils or, if his equipment beggars belief, then hers should be inch long pencil stubs?
OK so what about centimetre long pencils or, if his equipment beggars belief, then hers should be inch long pencil stubs?
I have no idea what you're talking about. My post was intended to bitch about the same cliches being used over and over. I know this is a site for amateur writers but I would hope that the better writers could avoid using the same terms that hundreds of others authors are using to describe sexual anatomy. All writing, including amateur erotica, should strive to be original. Though it's easier to reuse the same descriptions others have used, it's not good writing.
My post was intended to bitch about the same cliches being used over and over.
Some cliches, like some stereotypes, are constantly used simply because they are:
1. So well understood and accepted, thus all know what they refer to; or
2. So valid and true to life there is no real easy way to present the same matter in another way; or
3. Just so expected of the genre that doing otherwise would get you into trouble.
An example of option 3 is my story The Contagion applied real life responses and totally stepped outside the Zombie Apocalypse genre rules, thus I got a few emails about how terrible it was because it didn't abide by the rules. A similar aspect has been mentioned in the Naked in School thread.
OK so what about centimetre long pencils or, if his equipment beggars belief, then hers should be inch long pencil stubs?
If you substitute the unit of measure in a cliche, it's no less a cliche. Is "a centimeter is as good as a kilogram" any better than "an inch is as good as a mile"?
In my opinion, comparing a unit of length (centimeter) to a unit of mass (kilogram) is original. It may not be sensible, but it is original.
quote
'work like a navvy',
end quote
Navvy, a shorter form of navigator (UK) or navigational engineer (US), is particularly applied to describe the manual labourers working on major civil engineering projects and occasionally (in North America) to refer to mechanical shovels and earth moving machinery. The term was coined in the late 18th century in Great Britain when numerous canals were being built, which were also sometimes known as "navigations", or "eternal navigations", intended to last forever all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navvy