I've read Darkstriders "Project: Prometheus". It could be a decent or even good story if the author did not cram it full of sex scenes that do absolutely nothing to help the story. It is just unnecessary gap-filling porn. That is just one (very blunt) example of a story that would not need sex to work.
Am I the only one to see things this way?
Amen to that.
I'm not talking here about the short pornographic stroke stories here.
Some few times sex is integral to a story. But often it is just gratuitous. OK, this is a site known for its sex stories. But the authors that get my respect are those that maybe give one explicit scene between the main couple and then tone it down in their subsequent encounters. I'm reading an epic at the moment, Peter H. Salus's Australian Gordy and Weena series. His main characters have sex, that's just part of life, bet we're not invited into the bedroom with a 35mm camera.
My 2c worth.
Am I the only one to see things this way?
No you aren't. However there are people who see it the other way around.
Personally as a reader for preferences, I'm probably somewhere in the middle between less sex is better and more sex is better.
I think both extremes expressed as categorical rules are wrong.
Personally as a reader for preferences, I'm probably somewhere in the middle between less sex is better and more sex is better.
So you go up and down when in a threesome.
Good to know
:)
It is just unnecessary gap-filling porn.
The obvious solution to that, is to ask the authors to remove the sex and make a PG version that could be uploaded to finestories.com (Shameless plug). Possibly if the story gets increased scores and readers, they might be tempted to 'clean up' their other work and post it there. Or they may not.
But you won't know until you ask...
But you won't know until you ask...
Politely ask, not demand.
@Pangor: you could even volunteer to do the cuts and send it to the author for consideration. That way he could look at the result without investing time into a dubious task.
HM.
I've considered that option for my serial 'Good Medicine' – A PG-13 version which cut out the graphic sex scenes. Simply knowing it happened would be enough for the story.
But the amount of time it would take is daunting.
But the amount of time it would take is daunting.
Would it really? All you would be doing, is in effect, highlighting large chunks of text and hitting the delete key. That wouldn't take much time at all. And as for swearing, all you need is the Word (other word processors are available) 'find and replace' feature to put in an offending word and replace it with something less offensive, hit find and replace for whole document and in less than a minute, job done...
Would it really? All you would be doing, is in effect, highlighting large chunks of text and hitting the delete key. That wouldn't take much time at all. And as for swearing, all you need is the Word (other word processors are available) 'find and replace' feature to put in an offending word and replace it with something less offensive, hit find and replace for whole document and in less than a minute, job done...
Yes, it would, because there is often important dialogue embedded, and some scenes advance character development or story development, and would need to be re-crafted to not lose the development while eliminating the graphic details. Some graphic details are embedded into dialogue that is not a specific sex scene as well.
As for editing, I use BBEdit on my Mac, which has extensive search features (including regular expressions) and can search my 12,000,000 word corpus in less than 1s for straight text, and less than 2s for basic regex. 😀
The other thing that it would do is likely require adjusting chapter breaks so that chapters are generally in the range of 5500 to 6500 words. Transition changes would be necessary as well.
It's not trivial for the 4,000,000 words that comprise 'Good Medicine' alone.
I understand what a daunting task it would be.
If you ever do put a "PG-13" version on Finestories.com I would appreciate it.
I have been considering reading your stories, but, I mostly, prefer minimal or no sex.
There are a few stories and/or authors who have included even graphic sex into a story, and I have enjoyed it.
I am here for the adventure, military, SciFi, and other stories.
I have written some sex scenes for the "future" in a couple of my stories. I don't know if I will actually publish them, have sex occur "off screen" or just omit sex. I have written indications of attraction.
If I do include sex scenes, I will edit them for the version I am posting on Finestories.com
Would it really?
Friend I think you grossly underestimate the amount of work it would take. Often essential bits of dialogue find themselves in the middle of a sex scene. Or an important action. For example ....
In the middle of an explicit description of steamy sex, a shot rang out and the bedroom window exploded throughout the room. More explicit description of two naked bodies racing from the room.
It takes time, effort and skill to turn that into ...
While they were enjoying themselves a shot rang out and the bedroom window exploded throughout the room. They ran in a natural state from the room.
It takes time, effort and skill to turn that into ...
While they were enjoying themselves a shot rang out and the bedroom window exploded throughout the room. They ran in a natural state from the room.
I'm not sure that's true. How long did it take you to write that?
AJ
It took me about 10 minutes to get it right. That was one or two sentences. Imagine that through a steamy 50 chapter book.
I just finished a 450,000 word, 56 chapter tale that had lots and lots of sex in it. Of the 56 chapters, I'd guess that the equivalent of a full 15 to 18 were just sex descriptions.
I scrolled past nearly all as I did not see where it really added to the plot. But... lots of folks like that sort of detail.
The parts that did not contain sexual scenes were read in much closer detail.
I'm a fiend so I'm the reverse actually 😂
Sometimes I just scream "fuck already" at the book cause I want steamy sex scenes.
In the infancy of ASSTR and SOL, the excessive sex scenes did not bother me at all. Now though, excessive sex can ruin a story for me and have me skipping large parts of what is written. But when I think about it,those stories didn't bother me when I was younger because I was getting as much sex as the protagonist! Now that I am old, it just pisses me off that they are getting so much more than I. I think that's why I'm so fond of do-over stories - they give me hope!
I find in plot-driven stories, when it comes to sex scenes less is more. A few well written scenes are more than sufficient to get the point across. If it's too frequent or the descriptions get too lengthy, I skim past the sex to find out what happens next in the story.
That may be less true for me in character-driven stories, although I try to avoid those types these days because I don't enjoy stories that meander.
I find in plot-driven stories, when it comes to sex scenes less is more.
What if sex is explicitly part of the plot. For example, a BDSM romance.
What if sex is explicitly part of the plot.
…or character development …or relationship building.
The problem with sex scenes on SOL isn't that they're there, but that most are boring.
The problem with sex scenes on SOL isn't that they're there, but that most are boring.
And that isn't an attribute that is in any way particular to sex scenes as opposed to any other type of scene.
Any anyone who skips all sex scenes will never notice the ones that aren't boring.
Any anyone who skips all sex scenes will never notice the ones that aren't boring.
Hopefully they will be engrossed by what's leading up to the sex and then what's happening during the sex so it won't be boring and they won't skip it.
Now if they don't like graphic descriptions of sex, like my wife, they'll skip it. But my wife would also skip graphic violence too. She would also skip the technical stuff in SciFi.
So some people don't like to read about sex. Some don't like gore. Some don't like violence. Some don't like mushy romance.
So some people don't like to read about sex.
I like well-written sex scenes, but when the author feels their story 'must' have a detailed multi-orgasm sex scene per chapter, it's very hard to write something that's different every time.
AJ
but when the author feels their story 'must' have a detailed multi-orgasm sex scene per chapter, it's very hard to write something that's different every time.
You would run into the same problem with a western story where the author feels their story 'must' have a gun fight every chapter.
The gunfights are probably worse overall. Even the most prolific sex scene authors seldom feel the need to wax poetic over the virtues of one brand of dildo over the other, or how a certain vibrator has just the right amount of tension in the switch and flexibility in the cord, or how much better it is if you manufacture your own condoms, or ...
(Yes, I suppose that's probably more 'action' than 'western')
Thats a genre known as gun porn in the 2nd amendment community. Firearms as fetish item. Very few do it well and the appeal is mainly to those who've never touched one. Authors who do it well are usually experts in the field (Larry Correia was a machine gun dealer and competitive shooter before writing Monster Hunter) or the firearm is just a tool and the attention is on the MCs emotions (RLFJ's Grim Reaper, any noir detective novel).
Similar to sex stories, I guess.
You would run into the same problem with a western story where the author feels their story 'must' have a gun fight every chapter.
To a lesser extent because with gunfights a dead person can't be killed again but in an erotic story a fucked person can be fucked again, so gunfights have changing casts.
Also gunfights are more about the results, with the reader getting enjoyment from the right people dying, but erotic stories are more about the journey than the completion.
AJ
The problem with sex scenes on SOL isn't that they're there, but that most are boring.
And that isn't an attribute that is in any way particular to sex scenes as opposed to any other type of scene.
As a reader, the most boring parts (I wouldn't even call them scenes) are the filler chapters in long seriel stories. The ones where the author clearly doesn't know where to go next in the story, but wants to keep up a publishing schedule. The chapters where they just regurgitate material slightly modified from previous parts, over and over again. It doesn't matter if they are sex scenes, a character's plans or his thoughts: the third time through is boring.
Usually by that time I've invested enough time in the story that I just keep skimming the chapters, hoping something will happen.
Happens in dead tree press as well. Clive Cussler has made a career out of rewriting the same book over and over again. As did the person whose name currently escapes me - but they 'wrote' the 'lost fleet' series of sci-fi novels. The first couple were good, but the rest were just the first couple jumbled about a bit. I could Google, but frankly, the writer doesn't deserve the time.
Clive Cussler has made a career out of rewriting the same book over and over again.
And David Baldacci ;-)
AJ
I'm not talking about different novels by the same author but replaying the same material repeatedly in the same story.
As a reader, the most boring parts (I wouldn't even call them scenes) are the filler chapters in long seriel stories. The ones where the author clearly doesn't know where to go next in the story, but wants to keep up a publishing schedule. The chapters where they just regurgitate material slightly modified from previous parts, over and over again.
https://storiesonline.net/s/75073/incredible-changes by Dead Writer anyone?
Back in the Middle Ages, when I was in the throes of writing down the Playing the Game series as it was rushing pell-mell through my head, I was eager to join the "sex appears in a good story" class of ASSTR and SOL author. And a funny thing happened: after the first few scenes, writing the damn sex into the narrative became boring and, to me, repetitive. New characters brought some new encounters that, like life, breathed new adventures into the scenes, but as the main characters became more comfortable with each other, those scenes were able to be much more brief in their descriptions. I actually received several messages from readers who wanted more story and less sex described, and here they were on an erotic archive site!
RCM
As someone who has read PTG several times, I would say you struck a good balance.
Where it gets iffy is when the sex scenes impede or replace character development. I am reading a serial now, and the fact that pretty much every woman the MC meets is a leggy attractive thing who he has sex with does nothing to keep MC from having the same conversation over and over, with minimal forward movement.
That's perfectly how i feel about the "Hindsight 20/20" series (what a waste of time that was to read). almost every time the protag meets a girl or women, it's almost always about sex or something sexual. sex and sex and sex but sterile of actual feelings.
sex and sex and sex but sterile of actual feelings.
So the problem isn't sex of and in itself, but badly written sex?
yes, though if you ripped out all the sex and re-jigged a few things you'd actually have a pretty good story with room for characters to actually develop more than they were.
You have not made the case that better written sex with emotional involvement by the participants wouldn't accomplish the same thing.
except i'm not trying to make that point. *confused face*
True, but the point you want to make (that the stories would be better with no sex) requires ruling out the possibility that better written sex would be just as much of an improvement as simply removing the sex.
The vast majority of cases I've seen on the forum of complaints like this all come down not to just sex, but badly written sex.
True, but the point you want to make (that the stories would be better with no sex) requires ruling out the possibility that better written sex would be just as much of an improvement as simply removing the sex.
Uh, not really. It says 'better' with no sex. That's better compared to how it is now, not related to other things that might make it better, So, better sex scenes could make it better still, but pulling the sex altogether might make it better than it is now.
In other words, the claim isn't that removing the sex scenes would give the best story, just a better one than we have now.
So, better sex scenes could make it better still, but pulling the sex altogether might make it better than it is now.
44 chapters averaging over seventeen thousand words each, and each incorporating lengthy, detailed and mechanical sex scenes. I think it would challenge even the best authors to make the sex scenes varied, interesting and erotic and not an intrusion into what is a pretty good space opera.
AJ
Picking this point as the best to leap in: That's how I read it, too. It's not about the myriad of things that would make a story better, it's 'In a vacuum, changing nothing else, would the story be better with fewer sex scenes?'
Sure, writing better sex scenes is 'better', especially if they involve emotion and character development, but that's not the question.
It's a fine line. I haven't read the story in question intentionally, as I've largely stopped reading do-overs while writing one, which will continue for a very long time since mine is nowhere near done. The easiest way to avoid inadvertently 'lifting' ideas is to give them a miss for now.
I have, however, read quite a few stories where the endless procession of repetitive sex scenes slows everything down to a crawl and creates a conundrum for readers: Do I read this, knowing it's likely to just be 'more of the same,' or do I skim it, knowing that the author puts something important in every other/third/fifth/tenth/whatever sex scene and if I don't read it I'll miss out?
I have, however, read quite a few stories where the endless procession of repetitive sex scenes slows everything down to a crawl
I've given up on many stories where the story slows down to a crawl. And it has nothing to do with sex. It simply gets boring. That's why I don't read very long stories on SOL. Even if it starts good, the author didn't know when to end it.
Amen!
That's precisely what I think when I see a million+ word story. This isn't a story with a beginning, middle, and end. Nor is it a story that has been plotted out in advance to ensure a satisfactory ending.
A number of webnovels are over 1 million words, but have a concrete plot. Of course, you have to pick the ones that have been finished already.
That's precisely what I think when I see a million+ word story. This isn't a story with a beginning, middle, and end. Nor is it a story that has been plotted out in advance to ensure a satisfactory ending.
I have to strongly disagree. My series, A Well-Lived Life (and 2 & 3), is at 10 million words and has a clear ending (as made clear in the prologues to the first 10 books).
Another series, Climbing the Ladder has 1.5 million words (and rising) and has a clear ending (as is made clear in AWLL).
Retreads is a great story except for all the sex.. even more so because it's pedo sex. Makes for a LOT of fast scrolling past it!
I think sex scenes in long serials are used by authors as filler basically. At least one author I was following on Patreon certainly did that, and his space opera got so ridiculously slow and boring cause every chapter was just 50% recycled sex scenes from the previous 150 chapters. Story got so boring so fast, and the author turned out to be a scam artist anyway, so no longer giving him the dollars.
I'm here for smut, but your comment reminds me that epic stories are often where the sex scenes can get tiresome. They either need to be fewer and farther between or they need to be creative. It is also possible to maintain some eroticism between sex scenes.
Just had a story that I abandoned a few minutes ago, because there was literally no plot at all. That's a first for me on this site. It was just a guy banging one chick after another with like a sentence of two of actual plot across the first 10 chapters. It got too ridiculous.
will you tell us the name of the story or message me the name as I'll probably want to avoid it as well.
Thanks, SunSeeker
because there was literally no plot at all. That's a first for me on this site. It was just a guy banging one chick after another
That's a stroke story.
Except its a 3 book long series called Mind Magi. I haven't come across a multi book, like 150 chapter stroke story before. I kept figuring it was going to eventually get to some plot development but it like never did.
Mind Magi
Never read it, but are you sure there's no plot? It has quite high scores and the first in the series even came in 2nd place in the Clitorides. They are listed as "much sex" which, in my understanding, has a plot but also a great deal of sex.
Replace "sex" with "killing" and use the John Wick movies as an example. I would have called the first movie "much killing" (as in "much sex" on SOL) since there was sort of a plot but constant killing. But I would call the most recent one "stroke" because there was no plot, just killing.
But that's me. I have stories listed as "some sex" that others would call "much sex." And I've read "some sex" stories that, in my opinion, had "minimal sex." It's subjective.
I wonder whether part of the problem is that some authors write, say, 50% stroke and 50% plot. Readers who want more sex are grinding their teeth when the sex pauses in order to progress the plot, whereas readers who want more of a plot are grinding their teeth when the story pauses to accommodate a sex scene or two.
AJ
some authors write, say, 50% stroke and 50% plot
I think you meant "sex," not "stroke." Stroke is no plot so if 50% of the story is plot then it can't be stroke.
Now maybe some consider poorly written sex as stroke. You know, filled with "Oh, ahhhh, Oooooo, aaahh, I'm cuuuuummmming!!!!"
You know, filled with "Oh, ahhhh, Oooooo, aaahh, I'm cuuuuummmming!!!!"
I wrote some explicit sex in a story a while back and people complained there weren't enough Ooooohs and Aaaaaas :-)
AJ
Lazlong's "The Fountain of Youth", written 20 years ago, is a high scoring story that falls into this category for me. Rated as "some sex" it is a lot closer to "stroke" than "some" as it seems to me to be 50-50 story and sex with sex in every single chapter.
And yes I did enjoy it more when I first read it 20 years ago than now 20 years later...old age changes ya dont'cha know lol
SunSeeker
I would say that Three Square Meals and also Mike Cropo's early stories would be better with far less sex. Maybe it's just that I don't find their descriptions of inhumanly large dicks getting deep-throated on a regular basis at all exciting.
