I've read Darkstriders "Project: Prometheus". It could be a decent or even good story if the author did not cram it full of sex scenes that do absolutely nothing to help the story. It is just unnecessary gap-filling porn. That is just one (very blunt) example of a story that would not need sex to work.
Am I the only one to see things this way?
Amen to that.
I'm not talking here about the short pornographic stroke stories here.
Some few times sex is integral to a story. But often it is just gratuitous. OK, this is a site known for its sex stories. But the authors that get my respect are those that maybe give one explicit scene between the main couple and then tone it down in their subsequent encounters. I'm reading an epic at the moment, Peter H. Salus's Australian Gordy and Weena series. His main characters have sex, that's just part of life, bet we're not invited into the bedroom with a 35mm camera.
My 2c worth.
Am I the only one to see things this way?
No you aren't. However there are people who see it the other way around.
Personally as a reader for preferences, I'm probably somewhere in the middle between less sex is better and more sex is better.
I think both extremes expressed as categorical rules are wrong.
Personally as a reader for preferences, I'm probably somewhere in the middle between less sex is better and more sex is better.
So you go up and down when in a threesome.
Good to know
:)
When repeatedly going in and out, your mind tends to wonder to other things, so after a while, you're no longer 'there' with your partner, you're imagining other things. Thus for me, the apres-sex scenes are much more vital than the old 'in-and-out' explicit details are. Readers want to know what the characters most value, so if they value nothing at all, why would we continue reading it?
For me, my perspective is better sex is always better, whereas 'yet another warm body' is inherently boring, as if the protagonist cares that little for them, then why should we give a damn about who they are or what they do.
Stories need to add value, not just more crap to read! Again, if content doesn't advance the plot, then it's just bloat, ready to be cast aside, revealing the treasures buried beneath it.
In short, one valued relationship is vastly better than thirty utterly meaningless ones.
Again, if content doesn't advance the plot, then it's just bloat, ready to be cast aside, revealing the treasures buried beneath it.
I agree with your statement about sex scenes, but I can't agree with this.
In my opinion, a story devoid of setting and scenery (neither of which advance the plot) is simply not worth reading.
I'll second you on this. One of my go-to examples is Steven King's 'The Stand'. Some people prefer the original (quite long) work. Others prefer the original, uncut version (much longer). Many of the differences are texture, setting, scenery, and 'unimportant' subplots.
I find the longer version far superior, because it has a richness the shorter one does not.
It's the Chekov's Gun problem. If every gun must be fired, then a gun is always foreshadowing. It works on a stage where props cost money and every second is precious, but in a story, misdirection and texture matters. That's true even in some short stories, but it becomes more true the longer the story is.
That's hardly true, as just like character development, it adds depth, context and setting to the story, which are all vital elements. Thus they don't 'advance' the plot, yet they're still essential to it. Like the setting, which is an example of 'grounding' the story in reality, it's strengthens and helps readers to relate to the story.
Nonfiction can be as unbelievable as it wants, yet fiction has the obligation to FEEL authentic, or readers will never believe, much less accept it, thus entirely fictional stories set in far-flung universes actually have a higher bar, than do non-fiction publications, which are frequently proven incorrect. Yet non-fiction doesn't require anyone's 'acceptance', it either is, or isn't, either accurate or flat out wrong.
Again, there's a lot of components to storytelling, and the plot is merely how you first reel readers in, and once they start reading, the plot really doesn't matter, what does, is their relationship to the protagonist, as readers generally see themselves AS the protagonist, living the story vicariously through the protagonist. So a great part of fiction IS making it relatable to virtually anyone reading it.
In short, if the readers don't care about the protagonist, they'll gladly walk away from the story, which conversely, is why multi-protagonist stories are inherently so weak, because if readers are forced to relate to multiple protagonists, they really won't care about ANY of them, as they're pulling in multiple directions, unable to relate to anyone.
(You can tell I've spend WAY too long thinking about this over the years, but that's my burden, for most, the main focus in telling the story itself, so there's no need to overcomplicate things unnecessarily.)
That's hardly true, as just like character development, it adds depth, context and setting to the story, which are all vital elements. Thus they don't 'advance' the plot, yet they're still essential to it. Like the setting, which is an example of 'grounding' the story in reality, it's strengthens and helps readers to relate to the story.
You say what I said isn't true and then repeat exactly my point worded differently.
Sorry, I was responding to your Checkov's gun analogy, rather than your initial description, in relation to my "if the content doesn't add to the story" reference. The "add" there isn't limited to the plot, but to ALL aspects of the story, so my initial reference was broader than it first appears, though the initial phrasing was … problematic.
Sorry, I was responding to your Checkov's gun analogy
That wasn't my analogy, it was quoted from a prior comment by you.
There is a whole lot of nuance in this, for me.
I see it as each sex scene needing to 'add value.' I certainly have a tendency to write relationship, not sex, in that the sex scenes have, to date, always been preceded by a significant amount of time introducing the character and getting to know them.
But it's not just that. With a few exceptions, the idea is not merely to introduce a new character equivalent to previous sex/love interests and get them in bed, it's to add something. A new perspective, a new sort of person, a new style of relationship, and so forth.
That makes them not 'utterly meaningless,' though, by definition.
One odd side-effect, that some readers dislike, is that there are very few sex scenes involving the primary love relationship. That one is stable, though. Scenes would seldom add much. Perhaps some level of giving the readers an assurance that the two haven't turned into 'old married couple,' but I continue to feel like I can there without writing scenes that don't do a lot. It would push up the athleticism of things without adding much, and it risks the problem of 'always exceed expectations,' which tends to become impossible.
The last comment made me think: what if, in some hypothetical story, the thirty utterly meaningless relationships are the point, and the story is eventually aiming at the MC realizing exactly that point and making big changes with #31? Suddenly, the thing that was adding nothing adds everything.
Readers might not well like it. The readers who like thirty meaningless sex scenes might feel betrayed by the MC rejecting them. Who knows? But it's an interesting thought.
The last comment made me think: what if, in some hypothetical story, the thirty utterly meaningless relationships are the point, and the story is eventually aiming at the MC realizing exactly that point and making big changes with #31? Suddenly, the thing that was adding nothing adds everything.
While not exactly this. My first story, that I am writing until I finish, before I continue posting on SoL, is somewhat like this.
The MC and Secondary male characters are all combat Veterans, most have physical disabilities, and scars. Some have lost limbs, and they all have PTS / PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress / Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). They all have a "Hole" that they start the story unable to fill. They try to "Fix" themselves with excitement, as they are "Adrenalin Junkies" as well as Sex, alcohol, other drugs, and hedonistic activities. They are cynical, many are "minorities" and lack faith in law enforcement or justice, so they often respond with violence, usually, but not always calculated violence.
The female characters are also flawed, they (nearly all) suffer from PTS / PTSD (those who aren't quite to that level have still faced traumas). They have engaged in "survival sex" in the past, and most have engaged in prostitution. They too seek solace in Sex, alcohol, drugs, etc. Most of the female characters feel that their most powerful tool is sex! {It is said that "Females offer sex to get romance (or security). Males offer romance (or security) to get sex."}
These characters are not "heroes" neither are they "villians" they are morally grey; although some, if not most, do, at times, act in heroic manners. They see themselves as "good" people stuck in if not an "evil world" a world with a Lot of evil in it; nor are the authorities likely to provide any justice, so they must seek their own. The male characters believe they are offering, if not the best, at least a significantly better situation for the females. The females have significantly less power, and all though they haven't been in combat (well, most of them), nor have they been "Contractors" (Mercenaries) they have survived traumas most of the male charactes cannot image (and likely wouldn't survive). Objectively, at least some of the female characters, are, to a degree, experiencing "Stockholm Syndrome" (although many women feel they benefit from using sex, and subserviance to survive, even thrive). Not that all of the females are defined bybeing "victims" several of the females are in many ways stronger than most of the male characters. Several of the females are, for the most part, giving the orders, although often subtelly.
Through the course of the story most of the characters progress to a better situation; those that survive.
So, there are quite a few sex scenes, and scenes of violence, criminality, etc. that I believe are well written, but the plethora of sex is to a large degree is neccesary for many of the characters to comple their "Heroes Journey" to a HEA!
(HEA = Happily Ever After)
I've always been a fan of strong secondary characters (i.e. co-protagonists). In most of my stories, these end up being those closest to the protagonist, so in teen romances, more likely a sister than their primary romance, as that way, the female protagonist can help the male protagonist navigate their newest budding romance.
The key is, those are strong secondary relationships, and not just 'more of the same'. Thus the secondary relationship, in whatever form, tends to be more central than any other, as that's who's supporting the protagonist, however their romantic entanglements happen to play out over time.
And of course, much of the HEA ending is the protagonists overcoming the challenges they face, as again, that relationship is core, even after the main protagonist finds the supposed love of their life (because, really, how long do most 'true romances' actually last in real life?).
I agree, to a degree, but with all relationships, the relationship is central to the couple, so they need to continually renew it (ex: regular date nights, so the pair remain a couple and not just their children's mutual caretakers.
So I can see both sides of that, as if there's no visceral evidence of that continuing love, then readers will doubt just how much remains of it. Cuddling helps, yet it's just not the same. Luckily, teasing counts, and for many, teasing each other about how sexy passing strangers are can help fill that void while avoiding focusing on the core-couple (or threesomes) physical actions.
As long as the couple spends time together, truly enjoying each other, it covers all manner of minor sins of omission.
I've tried taking the tack of sometimes either writing a prelude to where the sex scene would go, with a fairly clear implication that a highly pleasurable romp followed, or a wrap-up from one.
Or, in some recent places, a discussion along the lines of 'gee, we should try X, too', where X has just happened somewhere else. Writing it might be redundant (though I just did something redundant in that way, but with someone else, not the primary love interest, because it's far more enlightening with the person it actually happened with). But it can be pretty strongly alluded to (it happening, and it being good).
There'll be more with the primary love interest, but I'm trying to balance things, especially since (where I'm writing right now) the story is handing me a bunch of meaningful 'sex scenes', and there are only so many I can have before it throws off the feel of things.
Yeah, I'd long did something similar, though again, for me, the whole point of the sex scene, was how much the characters surprised me, opening up about details I'd never imagined. That's pure creative gold, though I've never understood how it works.
I've got a good idea how to spark creativity, yet this is just out of left field.
Back to your suggestions, sometimes trying to minimize the sex is worth than eliminating it entirely OR going all in, as it ends up frustrating everyone. I don't think it's reached that point yet, though straddling the line for too long, usually ends with someone falling crotch first on said line. Never a pleasant experience.
The alternative is sex in new locations, which you've used several times to great result, as again, sex in a new location IS new. Then again, another alternative is, just like with married couples, fantasy, as they start acting out their fantasies, together, each play acting each other's sexual favorite sexual fantasies. It's an alternative, yet it also indicates undying compatibility issues.
Though now, you're at the stage of having sex with others in the home, is yet another level of kink, even if nothing ever transpires between them.
Again, there are plenty of alternatives, however each has it's own limitations.
Yeah, I'd long did something similar, though again, for me, the whole point of the sex scene, was how much the characters surprised me, opening up about details I'd never imagined. That's pure creative gold, though I've never understood how it works.
That happens to me all of the time. It makes an enormous difference. It's part of the point of having the scenes. And it might also be a reason to reexamine which scenes get written and why.
Again, when the characters come alive on the page, taking charge, you know you're doing well. You can still go astray, via any number of ways yet at that point, you have pure creative magic.
It is just unnecessary gap-filling porn.
The obvious solution to that, is to ask the authors to remove the sex and make a PG version that could be uploaded to finestories.com (Shameless plug). Possibly if the story gets increased scores and readers, they might be tempted to 'clean up' their other work and post it there. Or they may not.
But you won't know until you ask...
But you won't know until you ask...
Politely ask, not demand.
@Pangor: you could even volunteer to do the cuts and send it to the author for consideration. That way he could look at the result without investing time into a dubious task.
HM.
That's a lot of editing for free stories, just to make them Amazon acceptable. I'm here for good stories with good sex scenes. Which are few.
Not really, you just click, drag and delete. Pretty much all stories have a lead up which can be used as a termination point. For instance "He took my hand and led me to the bed, slowly undressing me as we moved :insert sex scene here: ..." Just replace the comma with a full stop and delete 'slowly' and everything after it till the rumpy-pumpy is gone. Seconds of work per sex scene.
That works fine if it's just a sex scene.
If there's dialogue in the middle, and it matters, you need to go find it and figure out where it can go.
If you have a character who has issues with sex in some way, and those issues only appear in the middle of sex, but they don't stop the sex, now you need to figure out a way to convey what was going on that was unusual.
If the MC needs to remain surface-level unaware of the odd behavior, you have a bigger problem. The MC can't call out the unusual behavior because they're blind to it in the moment; they can describe it as part of describing the whole scene, but they don't see it as 'unusual' or worthy of thought or analysis.
Problems I have in various places, if and when I go back and remove some sex scenes :)
Amazon, on the other hand, doesn't really seem to care. They have lots of stories with lots of sex scenes.
Well, it's general consensus that "Sex sells".
Or, for a certain publicity-hound couple, "Sussex sells" :-(
AJ
Possibly if the story gets increased scores and readers, they might be tempted to 'clean up' their other work and post it there. Or they may not.
I redid a few older stories, removed superfluous sex scenes, and reposted them under changed titles, either at SOL or at FS. Results: ± the same scores but >80% less downloads at FS, despite appearing there for the first time.
It is even more skewed with older stories that appeared at both sites. Apparently, you get more repeat readers at SOL.
If you go through the efforts of decaffeinating your stories, post them at both sites, so you get good exposure at SOL, but people who won't or can't access SOL can read them too.
Results: ± the same scores but >80% less downloads at FS
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point but that's actually very impressive. Other stories on both SOL and FS have attracted 10 times as many downloads on SOL.
AJ
I've considered that option for my serial 'Good Medicine' – A PG-13 version which cut out the graphic sex scenes. Simply knowing it happened would be enough for the story.
But the amount of time it would take is daunting.
But the amount of time it would take is daunting.
Would it really? All you would be doing, is in effect, highlighting large chunks of text and hitting the delete key. That wouldn't take much time at all. And as for swearing, all you need is the Word (other word processors are available) 'find and replace' feature to put in an offending word and replace it with something less offensive, hit find and replace for whole document and in less than a minute, job done...
Would it really? All you would be doing, is in effect, highlighting large chunks of text and hitting the delete key. That wouldn't take much time at all. And as for swearing, all you need is the Word (other word processors are available) 'find and replace' feature to put in an offending word and replace it with something less offensive, hit find and replace for whole document and in less than a minute, job done...
Yes, it would, because there is often important dialogue embedded, and some scenes advance character development or story development, and would need to be re-crafted to not lose the development while eliminating the graphic details. Some graphic details are embedded into dialogue that is not a specific sex scene as well.
As for editing, I use BBEdit on my Mac, which has extensive search features (including regular expressions) and can search my 12,000,000 word corpus in less than 1s for straight text, and less than 2s for basic regex. 😀
The other thing that it would do is likely require adjusting chapter breaks so that chapters are generally in the range of 5500 to 6500 words. Transition changes would be necessary as well.
It's not trivial for the 4,000,000 words that comprise 'Good Medicine' alone.
I understand what a daunting task it would be.
If you ever do put a "PG-13" version on Finestories.com I would appreciate it.
I have been considering reading your stories, but, I mostly, prefer minimal or no sex.
There are a few stories and/or authors who have included even graphic sex into a story, and I have enjoyed it.
I am here for the adventure, military, SciFi, and other stories.
I have written some sex scenes for the "future" in a couple of my stories. I don't know if I will actually publish them, have sex occur "off screen" or just omit sex. I have written indications of attraction.
If I do include sex scenes, I will edit them for the version I am posting on Finestories.com
Would it really?
Friend I think you grossly underestimate the amount of work it would take. Often essential bits of dialogue find themselves in the middle of a sex scene. Or an important action. For example ....
In the middle of an explicit description of steamy sex, a shot rang out and the bedroom window exploded throughout the room. More explicit description of two naked bodies racing from the room.
It takes time, effort and skill to turn that into ...
While they were enjoying themselves a shot rang out and the bedroom window exploded throughout the room. They ran in a natural state from the room.
It takes time, effort and skill to turn that into ...
While they were enjoying themselves a shot rang out and the bedroom window exploded throughout the room. They ran in a natural state from the room.
I'm not sure that's true. How long did it take you to write that?
AJ
It took me about 10 minutes to get it right. That was one or two sentences. Imagine that through a steamy 50 chapter book.
Often essential bits of dialogue find themselves in the middle of a sex scene. Or an important action
We obviously read different sex stories, as I have yet to read one where they suddenly stop during sex to exposition dump, and as AJ pointed out years ago, (Pet Fox is obviously a necromancer), it takes seconds to both remove large chunks of needless sex, and if you have important dialogue, then the simple addition of "as they recovered,:plot point happens:" does the job in three words.
I just finished a 450,000 word, 56 chapter tale that had lots and lots of sex in it. Of the 56 chapters, I'd guess that the equivalent of a full 15 to 18 were just sex descriptions.
I scrolled past nearly all as I did not see where it really added to the plot. But... lots of folks like that sort of detail.
The parts that did not contain sexual scenes were read in much closer detail.
I'm a fiend so I'm the reverse actually 😂
Sometimes I just scream "fuck already" at the book cause I want steamy sex scenes.
In the infancy of ASSTR and SOL, the excessive sex scenes did not bother me at all. Now though, excessive sex can ruin a story for me and have me skipping large parts of what is written. But when I think about it,those stories didn't bother me when I was younger because I was getting as much sex as the protagonist! Now that I am old, it just pisses me off that they are getting so much more than I. I think that's why I'm so fond of do-over stories - they give me hope!
I find in plot-driven stories, when it comes to sex scenes less is more. A few well written scenes are more than sufficient to get the point across. If it's too frequent or the descriptions get too lengthy, I skim past the sex to find out what happens next in the story.
That may be less true for me in character-driven stories, although I try to avoid those types these days because I don't enjoy stories that meander.
I find in plot-driven stories, when it comes to sex scenes less is more.
What if sex is explicitly part of the plot. For example, a BDSM romance.
What if sex is explicitly part of the plot.
…or character development …or relationship building.
The problem with sex scenes on SOL isn't that they're there, but that most are boring.
The problem with sex scenes on SOL isn't that they're there, but that most are boring.
And that isn't an attribute that is in any way particular to sex scenes as opposed to any other type of scene.
Any anyone who skips all sex scenes will never notice the ones that aren't boring.
Any anyone who skips all sex scenes will never notice the ones that aren't boring.
Hopefully they will be engrossed by what's leading up to the sex and then what's happening during the sex so it won't be boring and they won't skip it.
Now if they don't like graphic descriptions of sex, like my wife, they'll skip it. But my wife would also skip graphic violence too. She would also skip the technical stuff in SciFi.
So some people don't like to read about sex. Some don't like gore. Some don't like violence. Some don't like mushy romance.
So some people don't like to read about sex.
I like well-written sex scenes, but when the author feels their story 'must' have a detailed multi-orgasm sex scene per chapter, it's very hard to write something that's different every time.
AJ
but when the author feels their story 'must' have a detailed multi-orgasm sex scene per chapter, it's very hard to write something that's different every time.
You would run into the same problem with a western story where the author feels their story 'must' have a gun fight every chapter.
The gunfights are probably worse overall. Even the most prolific sex scene authors seldom feel the need to wax poetic over the virtues of one brand of dildo over the other, or how a certain vibrator has just the right amount of tension in the switch and flexibility in the cord, or how much better it is if you manufacture your own condoms, or ...
(Yes, I suppose that's probably more 'action' than 'western')
Thats a genre known as gun porn in the 2nd amendment community. Firearms as fetish item. Very few do it well and the appeal is mainly to those who've never touched one. Authors who do it well are usually experts in the field (Larry Correia was a machine gun dealer and competitive shooter before writing Monster Hunter) or the firearm is just a tool and the attention is on the MCs emotions (RLFJ's Grim Reaper, any noir detective novel).
Similar to sex stories, I guess.
You would run into the same problem with a western story where the author feels their story 'must' have a gun fight every chapter.
To a lesser extent because with gunfights a dead person can't be killed again but in an erotic story a fucked person can be fucked again, so gunfights have changing casts.
Also gunfights are more about the results, with the reader getting enjoyment from the right people dying, but erotic stories are more about the journey than the completion.
AJ
The problem with sex scenes on SOL isn't that they're there, but that most are boring.
And that isn't an attribute that is in any way particular to sex scenes as opposed to any other type of scene.
As a reader, the most boring parts (I wouldn't even call them scenes) are the filler chapters in long seriel stories. The ones where the author clearly doesn't know where to go next in the story, but wants to keep up a publishing schedule. The chapters where they just regurgitate material slightly modified from previous parts, over and over again. It doesn't matter if they are sex scenes, a character's plans or his thoughts: the third time through is boring.
Usually by that time I've invested enough time in the story that I just keep skimming the chapters, hoping something will happen.
Happens in dead tree press as well. Clive Cussler has made a career out of rewriting the same book over and over again. As did the person whose name currently escapes me - but they 'wrote' the 'lost fleet' series of sci-fi novels. The first couple were good, but the rest were just the first couple jumbled about a bit. I could Google, but frankly, the writer doesn't deserve the time.
Clive Cussler has made a career out of rewriting the same book over and over again.
And David Baldacci ;-)
AJ
I'm not talking about different novels by the same author but replaying the same material repeatedly in the same story.
As a reader, the most boring parts (I wouldn't even call them scenes) are the filler chapters in long seriel stories. The ones where the author clearly doesn't know where to go next in the story, but wants to keep up a publishing schedule. The chapters where they just regurgitate material slightly modified from previous parts, over and over again.
https://storiesonline.net/s/75073/incredible-changes by Dead Writer anyone?
Back in the Middle Ages, when I was in the throes of writing down the Playing the Game series as it was rushing pell-mell through my head, I was eager to join the "sex appears in a good story" class of ASSTR and SOL author. And a funny thing happened: after the first few scenes, writing the damn sex into the narrative became boring and, to me, repetitive. New characters brought some new encounters that, like life, breathed new adventures into the scenes, but as the main characters became more comfortable with each other, those scenes were able to be much more brief in their descriptions. I actually received several messages from readers who wanted more story and less sex described, and here they were on an erotic archive site!
RCM
As someone who has read PTG several times, I would say you struck a good balance.
Where it gets iffy is when the sex scenes impede or replace character development. I am reading a serial now, and the fact that pretty much every woman the MC meets is a leggy attractive thing who he has sex with does nothing to keep MC from having the same conversation over and over, with minimal forward movement.
That's perfectly how i feel about the "Hindsight 20/20" series (what a waste of time that was to read). almost every time the protag meets a girl or women, it's almost always about sex or something sexual. sex and sex and sex but sterile of actual feelings.
sex and sex and sex but sterile of actual feelings.
So the problem isn't sex of and in itself, but badly written sex?
yes, though if you ripped out all the sex and re-jigged a few things you'd actually have a pretty good story with room for characters to actually develop more than they were.
You have not made the case that better written sex with emotional involvement by the participants wouldn't accomplish the same thing.
except i'm not trying to make that point. *confused face*
True, but the point you want to make (that the stories would be better with no sex) requires ruling out the possibility that better written sex would be just as much of an improvement as simply removing the sex.
The vast majority of cases I've seen on the forum of complaints like this all come down not to just sex, but badly written sex.
True, but the point you want to make (that the stories would be better with no sex) requires ruling out the possibility that better written sex would be just as much of an improvement as simply removing the sex.
Uh, not really. It says 'better' with no sex. That's better compared to how it is now, not related to other things that might make it better, So, better sex scenes could make it better still, but pulling the sex altogether might make it better than it is now.
In other words, the claim isn't that removing the sex scenes would give the best story, just a better one than we have now.
So, better sex scenes could make it better still, but pulling the sex altogether might make it better than it is now.
44 chapters averaging over seventeen thousand words each, and each incorporating lengthy, detailed and mechanical sex scenes. I think it would challenge even the best authors to make the sex scenes varied, interesting and erotic and not an intrusion into what is a pretty good space opera.
AJ
Picking this point as the best to leap in: That's how I read it, too. It's not about the myriad of things that would make a story better, it's 'In a vacuum, changing nothing else, would the story be better with fewer sex scenes?'
Sure, writing better sex scenes is 'better', especially if they involve emotion and character development, but that's not the question.
It's a fine line. I haven't read the story in question intentionally, as I've largely stopped reading do-overs while writing one, which will continue for a very long time since mine is nowhere near done. The easiest way to avoid inadvertently 'lifting' ideas is to give them a miss for now.
I have, however, read quite a few stories where the endless procession of repetitive sex scenes slows everything down to a crawl and creates a conundrum for readers: Do I read this, knowing it's likely to just be 'more of the same,' or do I skim it, knowing that the author puts something important in every other/third/fifth/tenth/whatever sex scene and if I don't read it I'll miss out?
I have, however, read quite a few stories where the endless procession of repetitive sex scenes slows everything down to a crawl
I've given up on many stories where the story slows down to a crawl. And it has nothing to do with sex. It simply gets boring. That's why I don't read very long stories on SOL. Even if it starts good, the author didn't know when to end it.
Amen!
That's precisely what I think when I see a million+ word story. This isn't a story with a beginning, middle, and end. Nor is it a story that has been plotted out in advance to ensure a satisfactory ending.
A number of webnovels are over 1 million words, but have a concrete plot. Of course, you have to pick the ones that have been finished already.
That's precisely what I think when I see a million+ word story. This isn't a story with a beginning, middle, and end. Nor is it a story that has been plotted out in advance to ensure a satisfactory ending.
I have to strongly disagree. My series, A Well-Lived Life (and 2 & 3), is at 10 million words and has a clear ending (as made clear in the prologues to the first 10 books).
Another series, Climbing the Ladder has 1.5 million words (and rising) and has a clear ending (as is made clear in AWLL).
Retreads is a great story except for all the sex.. even more so because it's pedo sex. Makes for a LOT of fast scrolling past it!
I think sex scenes in long serials are used by authors as filler basically. At least one author I was following on Patreon certainly did that, and his space opera got so ridiculously slow and boring cause every chapter was just 50% recycled sex scenes from the previous 150 chapters. Story got so boring so fast, and the author turned out to be a scam artist anyway, so no longer giving him the dollars.
I'm here for smut, but your comment reminds me that epic stories are often where the sex scenes can get tiresome. They either need to be fewer and farther between or they need to be creative. It is also possible to maintain some eroticism between sex scenes.
Just had a story that I abandoned a few minutes ago, because there was literally no plot at all. That's a first for me on this site. It was just a guy banging one chick after another with like a sentence of two of actual plot across the first 10 chapters. It got too ridiculous.
will you tell us the name of the story or message me the name as I'll probably want to avoid it as well.
Thanks, SunSeeker
because there was literally no plot at all. That's a first for me on this site. It was just a guy banging one chick after another
That's a stroke story.
Except its a 3 book long series called Mind Magi. I haven't come across a multi book, like 150 chapter stroke story before. I kept figuring it was going to eventually get to some plot development but it like never did.
Mind Magi
Never read it, but are you sure there's no plot? It has quite high scores and the first in the series even came in 2nd place in the Clitorides. They are listed as "much sex" which, in my understanding, has a plot but also a great deal of sex.
Replace "sex" with "killing" and use the John Wick movies as an example. I would have called the first movie "much killing" (as in "much sex" on SOL) since there was sort of a plot but constant killing. But I would call the most recent one "stroke" because there was no plot, just killing.
But that's me. I have stories listed as "some sex" that others would call "much sex." And I've read "some sex" stories that, in my opinion, had "minimal sex." It's subjective.
I wonder whether part of the problem is that some authors write, say, 50% stroke and 50% plot. Readers who want more sex are grinding their teeth when the sex pauses in order to progress the plot, whereas readers who want more of a plot are grinding their teeth when the story pauses to accommodate a sex scene or two.
AJ
some authors write, say, 50% stroke and 50% plot
I think you meant "sex," not "stroke." Stroke is no plot so if 50% of the story is plot then it can't be stroke.
Now maybe some consider poorly written sex as stroke. You know, filled with "Oh, ahhhh, Oooooo, aaahh, I'm cuuuuummmming!!!!"
You know, filled with "Oh, ahhhh, Oooooo, aaahh, I'm cuuuuummmming!!!!"
I wrote some explicit sex in a story a while back and people complained there weren't enough Ooooohs and Aaaaaas :-)
AJ
people complained there weren't enough Ooooohs and Aaaaaas :-)
Well, if you are going to write a zoo story about an ape enclosure, you'd best not monkey around...
Lazlong's "The Fountain of Youth", written 20 years ago, is a high scoring story that falls into this category for me. Rated as "some sex" it is a lot closer to "stroke" than "some" as it seems to me to be 50-50 story and sex with sex in every single chapter.
And yes I did enjoy it more when I first read it 20 years ago than now 20 years later...old age changes ya dont'cha know lol
SunSeeker
I would say that Three Square Meals and also Mike Cropo's early stories would be better with far less sex. Maybe it's just that I don't find their descriptions of inhumanly large dicks getting deep-throated on a regular basis at all exciting.
My first thought when reading the title of this post was the Variation on a Theme stories.
IMO, At least the 1st book (14 year old MC) and 2nd book (15 years old) would benefit a LOT from less (or even no). Mostly because the characters are WAAAAAY too mature about it.
Mind you, the 14-year-old MC is also fifty-something :)
But, I agree, the secondary characters are perhaps too mature about things. That said, it's stated all along that they're a highly unusual group, so ...
Well, willing suspension of disbelief goes as far as it goes, and that will vary :)
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this question, it is just down to the readers preference and the story.
I was reading a story recently which had a setup for what could have been a nice sex scene and then it skipped over it, I think the story could have benefited by adding a sex.
On the opposite site of that I have also read a couple of stories were, it just felt like the sex scene was the author ticking a box before moving on.
Its one thing if there is like an evolution in the sex scenes, or they are very different from one another. A lot of super long stories though, like Three Square Meals, use sex scenes as filler. Literally the same scenes we've read 20 times already are shoehorned in so he can get his Patreon dollars. Project: Prometheus is a Patreon story and they make money per chapter, so they just recycle sex scenes over and over and over again. Its like printing money.
Also, these stories will never end, because why would you turn off a printing press that is literally printing you money every month? Patreon stories will drag on forever as long as people are still willing to pay. C. H. Darkstrider is making somewhere between $12k to $48k a year off of this story.
It would seem to me that would be a good way to get subscribers to drop out. Why should they keep paying for the same scenes? Yeah, it might hit a particular kink but even that would get boring after a while.
My approach to subscriptions has been to end one story and start a new one. But I'm also not earning a lot that way and have only recently started a really long story. So maybe I'm doing it wrong.
Try looking on SciFi or Finestories to see if the stories have have had all/most of the sex eliminated to be posted on those sites.
Try looking on SciFi or Finestories to see if the stories have have had all/most of the sex eliminated to be posted on those sites.
I know that explicit sex scenes are banned from FineStories, but I'm not so sure about SciFiStories. I thought management had said that the sex content rules are the same as on the main SOL site, and readers are protected by the stories' age ratings.
AJ
My story "Arkadia" is on SciFiStories and it has explicit sex scenes. Very few yes, but it still has some...I think the BIG rule for ScifiStories is that they have to be SciFi lol
SunSeeker
I think the BIG rule for ScifiStories is that they have to be SciFi lol
The posting guidelines say
SciFi-Stories is a science fiction and fantasy stories site. Only science fiction and fantasy stories accepted.
(Am I the only person here who remembers when LOL stood for 'Lots Of Love'?)
AJ
(Am I the only person here who remembers when LOL stood for 'Lots Of Love'?)
Nope you aren't the only one. I remember that, though for some reason I seem to remember the notes had several "lol"'s...lololol
SunSeeker
Am I the only person here who remembers when LOL stood for 'Lots Of Love'?
I'm in my mid 50s and live in the upper mid-west (Wisconsin). I don't remember LOL being used for anything prior to "Lots Of Laughs".
I'm 70, in the Pacific Northwest. LOL used to be primarily Little Old Lady.
In my neck of the woods, before the internet, SMS and instant messaging, people simply did not use initialisms like that in everyday life.
Sure initialisms that were part of technical/professional jargon or established as terms by government (EMT=Emergency Medical Technician) got used in appropriate contexts, but people didn't go around making up their own.
I bet we know someone who didn't write SWALK on the back of missives to their loved one ;-)
AJ
I bet we know someone who didn't write SWALK on the back of missives to their loved one ;-)
This is the first time I've seen anyone write "SWALK". Not a fucking clue what it's supposed to mean.
First time I have EVER heard of or seen "SWALK". I'm guessing "sent with a loving kiss"?
SunSeeker
I'm guessing "sent with a loving kiss"
I remember it as 'sealed with a loving kiss', but it had fallen out of fashion by the time I reached the age where it might have been useful. I believe it was popular with WWII soldiers when writing home.
AJ
I believe it was popular with WWII soldiers when writing home.
That makes sense. The US Military has an unholy love of initialisms. Soldiers tend to pick that up.
The US Military has an unholy love of initialisms.
I think that can be said of ALL military! I know when I was in the CDN Military I thought there were more acronyms than full words!
SunSeeker
I think that can be said of ALL military! I know when I was in the CDN Military I thought there were more acronyms than full words!
No lies detected.
The US Military has an unholy love of initialisms.
And not just the military, include any and all bureaucracies!