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Heinlein and Asimov

seanski1969
Updated:

Just started a new story and I thought I'd comment on the fact that it seems that so many authors here on SOL include in their stories how some "hot" female character's favorite authors are Heinlein and Asimov.

I can't remember the number of stories I've found this in but it is far too many. Is this a cliche or a wishful stereotype?

Will you authors please avoid this in your future works unless it is primary to your storytelling? It has been nearly 30 years since either author had works published and I don't believe many hot young females are reading any of their works.

Just my thoughts so if you're mad I'm sorry.

Gauthier

@seanski1969

Obviously you didn't set foot in a bookstore recently. Any female reading Heinlein is hot and too young (9-16).

SF market has doubled since 2009 and Heinlein is still classed 49th by sale volume.

Replies:   Uther_Pendragon
awnlee jawking

@seanski1969

Just started a new story and I thought I'd comment on the fact that it seems that so many authors here on SOL include in their stories how some "hot" female character's favorite authors are Heinlein and Asimov.


Why stop at one cliched aspect of their characterisations? They're usually natural blondes, highly intelligent (although they may hide it from their peers), love shopping, habitually wear thongs to school and they're cheerleaders despite hauling around monster mammaries on their chests.

AJ

Replies:   seanski1969
seanski1969

@awnlee jawking

love shopping


Have you met the one woman in the world who doesn't "love shopping"? I thought she was a myth like Big Foot or Nellie from Lock Ness. :)

Replies:   awnlee jawking
AmigaClone

There is a total of 180 stories with the name Heinlein, and 99 stories with the name Asimov.

These numbers includes stories that have Heinlein or Asimov as part of the title, a location within the story and characters within the story.

There are only 31 stories on with both those names, and not all of them are associated with books a smart girl in those stories reads. Not all of those stories are set in or near the present day.

If that number is to much then that is your problem and not that of the author.

Reluctant_Sir

Huh, how about that. @seanski1969, is this a case of confirmation bias?

If Heinlein is in .3% of stories on here, and Asimov is in half that; and the chance of both Heinlein and Asimov appear is .07%, then what are the odds that you saw it in one story and it annoyed you, then you saw it again and assumed a veritable flood?

Maybe you like stories by authors that use that particular scenario?

Just curious.

awnlee jawking

@seanski1969

The ones I've met have mostly come from a science background, and able to resist the nature and nurture pressures to conform to stereotype.

AJ

Crumbly Writer

Despite all the protests, I've gotta say, I wonder at the timing. Although both Heinlein and Asimov were amazing readers, you've got to wonder whether they're the ONLY sci-fi authors the author in question is even aware of. What's more, why wouldn't the 'hot young women' choose the raft of newer female sci-fi authors, rather than some old, white dead guy?

It seems the authors are revealing their own dated pasts, casting that bias in their own stories about 'young people' they can no longer relate to.

Replies:   Jim S  Argon
Jim S

@Crumbly Writer

What's more, why wouldn't the 'hot young women' choose the raft of newer female sci-fi authors, rather than some old, white dead guy?

I'm one of those old white guys (fortunately not dead yet) and I positively revere both authors. I haven't read any science fiction in years though I was a huge fan up to my 40s. I found the books around that time unappealing and gave up on the entire genre. If I were to return, would any of you authors here have any recommendations on good modern stuff to read? By modern, say anything in the last 30 years.

oyster50

@Jim S

John Scalzi immediately comes to mind. Start with Old Man's War.

StarFleet Carl

@Jim S

If I were to return, would any of you authors here have any recommendations on good modern stuff to read? By modern, say anything in the last 30 years.


As a medium aged white guy (I'm 56) ... here's my list of modern authors that I keep their books on my shelves:

David Weber - (Honorverse and Safehold series - he can be a bit (!) wordy at time)
David Drake - Hammers Slammers (military), Belisaurius (excellent alt-history), the RCN series (taking historical info and moving it into a future)
John Ringo - everything he has written - the Legacy of the Aldenata series (Eat Anti-Matter, Posleen boy!), the Paladin of Shadows series (note - borders on ... okay, jumps OVER the border into ... erotica, especially the early stories ... Aer Kildar!) -
Larry Correia - Monster Hunter series
Michael Z Williamson
Tom Kratman
Eric Flint

If you want a fantasy series that rivals Tolkein, then the series by Raymond Feist that starts with Magician: Apprentice, Magician: Master, A Darkness at Sethanon are a good 20 or so books to read.

Replies:   Remus2
helmut_meukel

@Jim S

Wen Spencer's Elfhome series

HM.

The Outsider

@Jim S

Graybyrd turned me on to Paul H. Honsinger's "Man of War" series after we finished work on my latest story. There are currently three main stories and two side stories published.

Remus2

@StarFleet Carl

If you want a fantasy series that rivals Tolkein, then the series by Raymond Feist that starts with Magician: Apprentice, Magician: Master, A Darkness at Sethanon are a good 20 or so books to read.

I'll have to dig through the library to find them, but isn't that the rift world?

Replies:   StarFleet Carl
Argon
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


It seems the authors are revealing their own dated pasts, casting that bias in their own stories about 'young people' they can no longer relate to.


You are onto something here. Just like all the teenagers who listen to The Beatles, prefer classic music rather than contemporary artists or quote Monty Python sketches. It's just infinitely more convenient to project your own, well aged preferences on your youthful alter ego. I've been guilty of that too. Then again, most of our readership probably falls in the same age bracket and would not understand a reference to a contemporary author anyway. Let's face it: we're mostly old farts 🦕🦖

Replies:   seanski1969
seanski1969

@Argon

to project your own, well aged preferences on your youthful alter ego. I've been guilty of that too. Then again, most of our readership probably falls in the same age bracket and would not understand a reference to a contemporary author anyway. Let's face it: we're mostly old farts


I am a "semi-old fart" too as I turned 49 yesterday and I guess that the truth so elegantly stated above is the point I wanted to make.

I enjoy looking up contemporary books, music, or any other "modern" thing included in stories I read. Not having children it helps me try to understand youth of today. So my hope was that SOL authors use someone like David Webber or J. K. Rowling when describing favorite authors of modern young females as that is more believable than older non-contemporary authors. SNL over Monty Python and other trends.

Just my musings on subject and I was glad of the many responses that I have read. :)

Replies:   Keet
Keet

@seanski1969

I enjoy looking up contemporary books, music, or any other "modern" thing included in stories I read. Not having children it helps me try to understand youth of today. So my hope was that SOL authors use someone like David Webber or J. K. Rowling when describing favorite authors of modern young females as that is more believable than older non-contemporary authors. SNL over Monty Python and other trends.

Current youth has no idea who J.K.Rowling is, they only know Harry Potter. David Webber? Maybe, but just because he has a relatively large bibliography with a variety of themes. I think Heinlein and Asimov are recognizable for a lot of the youth, at least those who are into sci-fi. They are just too famous to avoid.

awnlee jawking

@Keet

I think Heinlein and Asimov are recognizable for a lot of the youth, at least those who are into sci-fi. They are just too famous to avoid.


Although I'm not a great fan, Asimov ranks as one of the greats of Science Fiction, ranking alongside HG Wells. Heinlein seems to have been more an American favourite, and his appeal may not be so enduring. Still, it's a sex story site so he has to be included ;)

AJ

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Keet

I think Heinlein and Asimov are recognizable for a lot of the youth, at least those who are into sci-fi. They are just too famous to avoid.

If nothing else, they're probably taught in high schools now as 'classics' of literature.

Crumbly Writer

@awnlee jawking

Heinlein seems to have been more an American favourite, and his appeal may not be so enduring. Still, it's a sex story site so he has to be included

Then again, he helped turn the entire culture away from the 'safe for all ages' fiction to stories addressing 'real world' issues in purely fictional pieces. For that, he may be more memorable and relevant than you're giving him credit for.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
BlacKnight

@seanski1969

Well, if you're a smart barely-maybe-technically-legal-but-really-mature-for-your-age-honest girl in the Gulf states, and you want to catch yourself an itinerant middle-aged electrical engineer with a failed marriage under his belt (and who wouldn't want such a prize?), you have to pick your reading material carefully.

Seriously, my experience is that nerd-girls of all ages almost universally loathe Heinlein. It has nothing to do with when the books were published, except insofar as RAH was a product of his era.

The list of authors that hot young nerd girls in my experience actually read looks more like: Anne McCaffrey, Neil Gaiman, Mercedes Lackey, Ursula LeGuin, J.R.R. Tolkien, Terry Pratchett, Tad Williams, J.K. Rowling (though she's a lot more mainstream than most of this list), or just some anonymous author of Frodo/Sam slashfic off the Internet (which she probably writes, too).

And even some of those are probably showing my age (or the age of the hot nerd girls I've dated, anyway). I mean, the original Harry Potter target audience is in their 30s now.

REP
Updated:

@Jim S

I enjoy military and other types of SF, so alphabetically - Robert Asprin, Robert Buettner, Daniel da Cruz, John Dalmas, David Drake, Eric Flint, Elizabeth Moon, Rick Shelley, and David Weber. That should keep you busy for a couple of years, assuming you like their stories.

ETA: If you like satirical fiction I would recommend Terry Pratchett. His sense of humor is excellent.

awnlee jawking

@Crumbly Writer

I can guess your nationality ;)

AJ

StarFleet Carl

@Remus2

I'll have to dig through the library to find them, but isn't that the rift world?


Rift War series

I remember him saying at one point that he'd only intended for it to be a few books. And it just kept growing ...

Replies:   Remus2
Remus2

@StarFleet Carl

Thanks, couldn't remember the exact term.

Jim S

@Jim S

Replies: oyster50 StarFleet Carl helmut_meukel The Outsider REP

Thanks, all, for your suggestions/recommendations.

Replies:   REP
REP

@Jim S

You're welcome

Uther_Pendragon

@Gauthier


SF market has doubled since 2009 and Heinlein is still classed 49th by sale volume


Some time back, although after his death, I read that no book that Heinlein had ever published was currently out of print. (That was before his first novel -- which had been rejected at the time and didn't pop up until after his death -- was published.)

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