Forum: Author Hangout

That's true, as the whole one speaker per paragraph is based on the One-Subject per paragraph, as in dialogue, the speaker is the subject of the dialogue, as they're the ones speaking (thus the subject of the paragraph, not the commentary).

It's a fairly nuanced aspect of writing, which is why it grates for so many new writers.

That said, I've also done the "at the same time" response, yet I restrict mine to things like crowd noise or press interviews where the questions/shouts come fast and furious, where the character often can't tell who's specifically asking which question, thus they tend to hit like a wave, washing over the character who's left wheeling as a result.

I've used that particular approach quite a few times, including several in the same story (after all, how many fictional chapters have to fend off conferences.

I've also done the "at the same time" response, yet I restrict mine to things like crowd noise or press interviews where the questions/shouts come fast and furious, where the character often can't tell who's specifically asking which question, thus they tend to hit like a wave

I put those shouted out questions in separate paragraphs without dialogue tags. Prior to the flurry of questions, I say something in the narrative so the reader knows what's coming.

I think that's the key. Generally, each person deserves their own focus for a paragraph. However, when more than one person says something short and roughly about the same thing, we can say that the multiple answers _are_ the subject of this paragraph. I'm good with the original as written.

While I'm at it, my proofreaders are constantly on me to get away from Alice said... Beth said... Carol said..., but I'm wary of purple prose. If you can convey meaning with a tag, sure. Alice beamed and Beth volunteered, but otherwise it just makes the story harder to read. You're replacing a simple word that means something with forty different words that...all mean the same thing. Why not use that one word?

Action words help.

I nodded. "Yes, that makes sense."

For two-person conversations, tagging every few utterances helps.

For multi-person conversations, I usually tag everything, but if it's highly clear from context who's speaking, sometimes I'll drop that. But I try to use enough action-word tagging to avoid a lot of 'said' and 'asked'.

For 'beamed' (as an example)

Good: Alice beamed. "Oh, I love you!"
Bad: Alice beamed, "Oh, I love you!"

I've screwed that one up, and am working on fixing it. One is an action, followed by dialogue. The second is saying Alice somehow 'beamed' "Oh, I love you!" Unless Alice is a telepath, has laser eyes, or otherwise has some unusual communication system, I'm not sure how she would do that.

There are authorities that hate even using 'asked' and want 100% 'said'. That gets too monotonous for me.

There are authorities that hate even using 'asked' and want 100% 'said'.

I once had someone in another forum get upset with me for using "asked." His point was that people say questions (as in "said" the question), so you shouldn't have to write "asked."

Dawn looked over and beamed, "My first time!"
Simultaneously, Dayna volunteered, "Her first time!"

But I don't think that's 'better.' It's just another way to do it.

I disagree. I think your way is better. The original version garden-pathed me and I had to re-read it to figure out what was actually happening. I'm disappointed you kept 'beam' as a dialogue tag, though. The author seems to be trying too hard not to use 'said'.

ETA (Sorry, the current UK heat bomb is affecting my thought processes). I agree with SB that this is an 'exception' to the normal rule and it's okay to put them in the same paragraph. So GW's two sentence offering could be merged into a single paragraph.

I keep thinking there must be a better way to write it in a single sentence, but those two exclamation marks present formidable opponents.

AJ

My eyes skimmed right over 'beam.' I was just working on the mechanics of simultaneity. I wouldn't use 'beam' myself there. I occasionally change up dialogue tags to some extent, but - if I wanted to use 'beam', it would either be:

Dawn looked over and beamed, saying, "My first time!"

Or:

Dawn looked over and beamed.

"My first time!"

(or "My first time!", she said, though I don't think it's strictly necessary to tag dialogue immediately after an action).

'Said' gets old, and I don't think it's 'the only way', but it should be the usual and standard tag.

How about:

Dawn looked over, beaming, "My first time!". "Her second," Tanya countered.

Here, the distinctions are clearer due to more specific tags (volunteered is a bit generic, yet counter is specific to the previous statement).

As far as the "beaming" verb, "crowed" works better, as it denotes loud, boisterous bragging. "Declaring" isn't nearly as specific, as declaration are typically well-thought out and planned, strongly held beliefs.

Dawn stood, victoriously waving her arms. "My first time!". "Her second," Tanya countered, glaring at her.

It's not like writers haven't done it before.

I wasn't saying it was wrong. Just the opposite. It's an example of when the "rule" of new speaker/new paragraph doesn't apply.

SB,

Rules are in place for a reason; follow them.

I am going through my stories and correcting them because I when I wrote the story, I merged narrative and dialogue.

I also found that I copied and pasted dialogue in a subsequent chapter. That is a mess to fix.

So if there is a rule, I advise your to follow it even if it does create short sentences.

REP

Rules are in place for a reason; follow them.

The point of the post is that the rule of changing paragraphs when a new speaker speaks doesn't apply to all situations.

The example posted is one situation where it doesn't apply. Trying to force those two dialogues into two paragraphs wouldn't make it clearer. Did I like the way that author wrote it? Nope. Especially his use of dialogue tags. But I kept it like it was (except for adding two commas for readability).

It could have been written as:

Dawn looked over. "My first time!"

"Her first time!" Dayna said at the same time.

But I don't think that shows the two speaking at the same time as clearly because the reader "heard" Dawn say it and then moved on to the next paragraph where they were told Dayna was speaking at the same time.

But this was only one example of when the "rule" doesn't apply.

The point of the post is that the rule of changing paragraphs when a new speaker speaks doesn't apply to all situations.

I got the point of the post.

The point of my post is 'where do you draw the line'.

I am drawing my line at 'start a new paragraph when encountering a second persons dialogue or encounter narrative.'

You are free to draw your line at a different point.

Without knowing who Kenny and Sung are (in context), it's hard to judge.

I have no problem with them both saying "Dude!" at the same time. That happens. But the simultaneity is ambiguous.

As for "How was she?", I would usually say it matters who said it. For it not to matter, I'd need a special case (such as the twins in my story who have been known to swap every few words for paragraph-long joint utterances). If Kenny and Sung are reasonably distinct characters, I would want to know which of them said it. If they speak for each other, or are truly minor characters, maybe it doesn't matter.

For me, it matters in part simply because, in a multi-person conversation, I want to know if everyone's participating or if some people are usually quiet and let the others speak.

If Kenny and Sung are reasonably distinct characters, I would want to know which of them said it.

Nah. The MC just took his GFs virginity during her Sweet Sixteen party. Their friends (male and female) were outside in the hallway when they opened the door. Snide remarks were made and giggling. Then the GF went off with her girl friends and she was telling them all about it. That was when the two boy friends (Kenny and Sung) came up to the MC with their "Dude!"s with one of them asking how it was. The MC simply said he wasn't telling and walked away.

So it wasn't important which one asked the question. Either one could have. Both were probably thinking it.

It is a poorly written paragraph.

I would just have "'Dude!'" once, and make clear that it was both of them saying it.

Yeah, like:

"Dude!" Kenny and Sung said together.

"Dude!" Kenny and Sung said together.

chorused?

AJ

"Shall we do it?" asked Tom.
"Christ yes!" agreed Dick. | "Hell no!" refused Harry. | "I'll get the Vaseline," offered Nigel hopefully.

I'd put those in separate paragraphs. My mind would "hear" the separate paragraphs as rapid responses. More impactful to me.

I believe the "rule" is a good one. My reason for the thread was simply to point out that there are exceptions.

Officially, each of those quotes should have been on their own lines. But, what purpose would that serve?

Clarity. Easier to read. Flows smoother.

Just my opinion why it should be separate paragraphs.

I agree. Much easier to parse.

AJ