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Is there now too much content?

Pixy 🚫

From the reader and the site's point of view, such as a statement is nonsensical. For the reader, the more content the better, as there is a greatly increased chance of finding a story that scratches a particular itch.

From the site's point of view, more content means greater choice, which means more hooks to catch passing eyeball traffic and increased chances of those eyeballs returning. And with repeated returns, a greater chance that a subscription will be taken out, and revenue pays the bills.

Content is king. Or queen, depending on your viewpoint. It's a win/win situation.

Unless you are a writer.

The downside is a faster front page/list turnover and, inevitably, less exposure. How that affects writers depends on the nature of the writer. For some it's a not an issue, as they write for themselves, for fun and if other people read (and like) their work, that's a nice bonus. For some it's a pension top up, holiday fund, a means to buy things they otherwise wouldn't, and for some, it's an integral part of their income strategy.

Writers do so for a multitude of reasons, but is there a point when a balance is tipped?

There have been many discussions on the forums about AI and AI content. There is no point in being King Canute about it. It's here, it's going to stay, and it's going to be more prominent. It can be used well, and it can be used badly. Some who use it badly are going to become better and eventually, will become popular as they adjust their content to the market conditions.

Inevitably, there is going to be so much content, that the submission process will be swamped as hundreds (eventually thousands) of story submissions are submitted each day. Triggered by the ability of one person to simply submit a story synopsis to an AI and have result a few seconds later.

I wouldn't be surprised if, in a few years, internet sites spring up, where all you have to do is submit a few plot prompts into a box and AI will create tailored stories targeting specific kinks, completely cutting out the middle person, the writer.

What effect would such a site have on curated sites like this one? Would traffic increase alongside the content, or would readers drift away because 'Story maker. com' (currently fictional, heavy emphasis on the 'currently') and similar, allows readers far greater specialisation and the ability to instantly create stories that they really want to read, just by inputting : Custard, 1970's phone box, banana's, Pokemon, incest, gravel chips : into a text submission box. A few seconds work for instant gratification. No need to spend hours trawling through internet sites in the vague hope of finding something that only barely scratches, at best, the desire of the reader.

The answer to that, is one that we will probably not have long to wait for.

Another linked observation that I have noticed changing recently, is the willingness of readers to score stories, or to be more pertinent, the lack of willingness. A few years ago, you only had to wait a few hours, or so, for a score to be visible. I am of the understanding that scores are important to the lower access denizens, because they have a limited amount of stories they can access per day.

Because of this, lower and unscored stories are avoided because the risk of opening a terrible story is exponentially increased. If you only have the ability to access a few stories per day, you are going to spend that access on the best scoring stories you can find. Once you have read those stories, and if you have allowance left, then you are more likely to 'take a chance' on an unscored story. This is going to become progressively harder as the daily story submissions increase in volume (Thanks to AI).

The more stories that are available, the more precious that allotment becomes. Some of this can be mitigated by looking at an author's page and looking at the scores shown, to gain an insight of the potential quality of the work held. If there are scores to see.

A few years ago, almost all stories had a score by the third page (or within a few days). I'm currently looking at page 16, which is almost a month back. Although I can't remember what the cut off point for basic access is (page wise), almost all of the displayed stories would have had a score by now. Out of the twenty stories shown, just eleven are scored. Looking through pages sixteen, and seventeen (being the last page for the month) it's almost an even split between scored and unscored and out of the scored stories, there is a slight bias to story's having low scores.

Which makes sense when taking human nature into consideration, as we are more likely to complain about something than praise it.

As much as Laz hates the topic, scores are important to a reader (who are, ultimately, the people who pay the bills), and for the average individual, used as a means to organise a reading hierarchy. The best scoring ones go to the top, with a descending scale utilised depending on how much reading is being done (or to be done). At some point, the stories are going to become so unpleasant to read in your list, that you end up doing something else instead. Like filing your tax return. At least until something better is published that you can then read, instead of doing things you should really be doing.

With more content being submitted, this lack of scoring is going to become worse, and the inevitable accessing of stories on the site is going to become a digital reading form of Russian Roulette.

I am well aware that many will only score a story when it's finished, and I understand and have no issue with that. However, I do wonder if a new mechanic should be implemented on the site. One that requires a story to be scored before the next story is accessed? Maybe make it an additional requirement of the 'free' tier? Take out a subscription and you won't have to score a story before moving on to the next, or take out a subscription and avoid having to score at all. I'm not sure how technically feasible that is from a back end point of view. Previously submitted scores can already be changed, if you decide that a story has improved/declined in its telling (subsequent chapters), so not much needs changing there.

Choice is good, and I believe having visible scores helps that choice and helps readers choose stories they will enjoy, which in turn, indirectly helps the site. Happy customers are return customers.

whisperclaw 🚫

@Pixy

You raise some good points and genuine concerns. Many of them can be boiled down to "discoverability." It's something I experienced two decades ago in the early days of (non-erotic) ebook markets. Publishers relied on the "new releases" page as their primary means of finding new readers. But time on that page went from 5 days to three to barely more than one. In this case, the site created a handful of new release sub category pages. Here, it might look something like New Releases with the Threesome tag, or the FA/FA tag. I'd pick maybe the top five or 10 tags by viewing or voting, and turn those into official subcategories off the new releases menu. Can readers do this themselves today with filters? Absolutely. It's more about convenience.

Of course that's just a short term solution, because you're right, new release volume is only going to keep increasing. It'll be up to authors to make a point of asking their readers to follow them on SOL so that they automatically see new releases and blog posts. Leveraging the follower list will make the New Releases page less essential for marketing. Of course you still want your reader count to grow, and that's where high scores on voting, plus new release subcategories could help. Not to mention doing some social media marketing driving readers from outside SOL to SOL.

Replies:   Big Ed Magusson
Big Ed Magusson 🚫

@whisperclaw

I agree that the primary issue is discoverability. Anything that relies on an algorithm for discoverability is going to be overwhelmed by AI, if it already hasn't been enshittified by the owners of the algorithm (google search and search on Amazon are worthless because it's now all paid ads).

The problem that the OP brings up is that discoverability by browsing is going to get swamped by AI as well. If it's all AI generated, how do you find the human-generated content by browsing? I have no idea.

The one thing that will continue to work is personal recommendation. That's *hard* for an author to generate. I don't think many of us like it when authors beg for reviews, likes, subscribe, comments, etc. I've avoided it, but like my favorite Youtubers, I may have to break down and ask. "If you liked my story, please rate and/or review it. It helps other readers find it."

That said, one specific problem we're going to have in erotica is that we really have two audiences that overlap. We have the folks looking for a good story that has some sex in it and the folks just looking to get off. I suspect AI will fulfill the needs of the latter audience well before it gets good enough to tell good stories. That's going to hit some writers' income pretty hard. The comparison I think of is how free internet porn basically drove Playboy and Penthouse into the ground. Too many guys just wanting to get off didn't care if the magazines had high quality photos and were happy with the crap uploaded other places.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@Big Ed Magusson

The comparison I think of is how free internet porn basically drove Playboy and Penthouse into the ground.

But people bought Playboy for the articles ;)

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

But people bought Playboy for the articles ;)

The articles of clothing that were absent from the models?

AJ

palamedes 🚫

@Switch Blayde

But people bought Playboy for the articles ;)

Playboy has been publishing a Braille version since 1970, funded by the National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped. This edition includes articles and essays but omits pictorial content, making it accessible for blind and visually impaired readers.

But just think how someone must FEEL when they find their dads collection.

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Pixy

As much as Laz hates the topic, scores are important to a reader

He doesn't hate scores. He hates authors bitching about the scoring system.

Replies:   TheDarkKnight
TheDarkKnight 🚫

@Switch Blayde

What effect would such a site have on curated sites like this one? Would traffic increase alongside the content, or would readers drift away because 'Story maker. com' (currently fictional, heavy emphasis on the 'currently') and similar, allows readers far greater specialisation and the ability to instantly create stories that they really want to read, just by inputting : Custard, 1970's phone box, banana's, Pokemon, incest, gravel chips : into a text submission box.

Several years ago I was a member of the subset of SOL posters called "Erotic Pen" We liked to challenge ourselves with quick little contests. These were the rules for one of them:

"In 750 words (+/- 10%) write a short erotic piece that includes the following arbitrary elements: a cellphone, 2 pieces of something torn, a bedroom without a door."

My entry was "Thanksgiving Night", not one of my more popular stories.

Mat Twassel 🚫

@Pixy

I let CoPilot have at your prompt. I made just a few edits because CoPilot doesn't do NSFW.

"Custard Signal"

On the edge of a sleepy village, where gravel chips crunched like secrets underfoot, stood a forgotten 1970's phone boxβ€”red, rust-flecked, and humming faintly with static. No one used it anymore, except for Marvin, a retired magician who believed it could still reach other worlds.

One Tuesday, Marvin stepped inside with a bowl of custard and a bunch of bananas tucked under his arm. He dialed a number he'd found scribbled in a vintage PokΓ©mon sticker album: Pikachu-7-Charizard-9. The receiver crackled, then purred.

"Custard delivery confirmed," said a voice that sounded suspiciously like Jigglypuff.

The bananas began to glow. Gravel chips scuffed inside the booth via Marvin's boots floated up from the floor, rearranged themselves into a spiral, and settled atop the custard as chocolate chips. Marvin grinned. He knew what was coming.

With a soft pop, the custard and bananas vanished, leaving only Marvin's sister Melba, her lips and chin smudged with chocolate. "I was so hoping it was a wrong number," she mused. "Well," she continued, lifting her skirt, "how do you want to do it this time?"

Replies:   Bondi Beach
Bondi Beach 🚫
Updated:

@Mat Twassel

10 easy

ETA: now we need a sequel

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Pixy

I've recently given plugs on the forum to a couple of stories by new(ish) authors that I'm enjoying. Both now have visible scores. However that's not an adequate answer.

Perhaps another approach might be to take all the scores of all of an author's stories to produce an 'author rating'. If displayed on the Home Page, it would give an indication of an author's reliability, though not necessarily that of their current story.

AJ

Replies:   Pixy
Pixy 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I had noticed your posts, and thought they were constructive.

Perhaps another approach might be to take all the scores of all of an author's stories to produce an 'author rating'. If displayed on the Home Page, it would give an indication of an author's reliability, though not necessarily that of their current story.

That didn't occur to me and is not a bad idea, though not sure how implementable it is. Like you said, it's a bit like a stocks and shares account - "Past performance is not a reliable indicator of future performance".

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@Pixy

I had noticed your posts, and thought they were constructive.

Thank you. I tried to review them without actually reviewing them since I don't have reviewer privileges.

The problem with an author reliability score is that it still discriminates against new authors, or a new pen-name of an existing author.

Hopefully someone will think of a better way.

AJ

Pixy 🚫

@Pixy

Hopefully someone will think of a better way.

Which was a driving reason for this thread. I can see issues ahead, I just don't know how to fix or prepare for them. As was mentioned in the other topics on AI, it's coming, and like a teen boy, it's coming fast.

Music channels are already being swamped with AI music (some of it's not bad, and I have even bought a few tracks), movies are going to be next (so lots of people out of work) once they have mastered teaching AI how to make movies longer than a few seconds. It's inevitable that the written word will also shortly be impacted and I think the speed of it is going to take a lot of people unawares and desperately trying to catch up to a horse that has long bolted from the stable.

REP 🚫
Updated:

@Pixy

I read your comments about story submissions without scores.

One point that you seem to have overlooked is that they do not interest the reader. Look at today's New Stories. Almost all of the stories seem to have similar themes about sex. For me no originality by the author. Yeah, they have different plots, but the impression is they all have predictable progression that has been done many times on SOL.

I very rarely add one of these new stories to my reading list. due to what seems to be their cookie cutter nature, I suspect many have been at least drafted by an AI. In some, the author asks us to be kind for they haven't got around to editing the story. Why should I read a cookie cutter story that has had no editing to correct errors?

REP

Replies:   Pixy
Pixy 🚫

@REP

I read your comments about story submissions without scores.

One point that you seem to have overlooked is that they do not interest the reader.

Not overlooked, ignored. I do not expect someone who is not interested in a story (genre) to read it and score it. I don't do that myself, so why should I expect others to do it?

My observation was on the people who are interested in the story plot enough to read it, but don't score. There are stories over the last month with over 1500 hundred views, but not enough decided to take a couple of mouse clicks to provide their opinion to make the overall visible. In fact, on page fifteen of the new stories, the author SZENSEI has an unscored (hidden) story with almost 1900 downloads. That implies that less than one in a hundred readers took the time to leave a vote.That's a shockingly high ratio (my average is about one in fifty). A quick look at their author page reveals a generally high standard of scoring, implying it's not the quality of the writing that's the issue.

One of the points I was trying to highlight, is how readership behaviour is evolving and it might not be in a direction best for this site's overall interest, unless it can be steered to something more productive. And no, I don't have any sensible suggestions on how to do that.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Pixy

Is there now too much content?

The site could start shedding some of its content next month because that's when Winter starts, as in 'Now is the winter of our discontent' ;-)

AJ

Replies:   Dinsdale
Dinsdale 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Stultus did that - Now is the winter of our discontent - ten years ago.

rustyken 🚫

@Pixy

Well I maybe contributing to the effect you are seeing, cause I've recently been noting a story to keep an eye on by a brief look at the first chapter. My intent is to read the story at some point but not right at the moment. So taking a gander, means that each time the story is updated, its title is highlighted when I look to see what is new. So in a way, I am contributing to the delay in a story achieving the minimum level of votes. So the question in my mind is: Are others taking this approach?

Replies:   Pixy
Pixy 🚫

@rustyken

I was actually curious as to my own voting behaviour, so I had a look. Apparently, I have read 1650 stories since I have been here and voted 51 times.

At first glance, only voting once every 33 stories is not a good look for someone talking about people not voting...

However, historical access only records 479 stories, so that makes it a more face saving once every ten stories (I take it that the remaining 1,171 accesses is either the same story, or chapters of the same story?).

But things get better. For the last one hundred recorded accesses, fifty five of the stories were actually my own, so for the last three years, I have read forty five stories and voted on fifteen of them (not my own, I should point out) that makes it one vote every three stories, so I'm not a total hypocrite... πŸ˜‚ phew!

Diamond Porter 🚫

@Pixy

My own habit with voting is only to vote for stories I like. That is, when I vote for a story, I usually give it at least an 8. I abandon other stories before I reach the "Vote" button. The ones in between, I don't like to score. I feel that those are written for some audience that doesn't include me, and I will let them rate it.

If I were forced to vote on stories that I normally wouldn't, I would have to give more low scores. If others have similar voting habits, then everybody would be giving more low scores. This would mean that new stories would get lower scores than comparable old stories.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫
Updated:

@Diamond Porter

before I reach the "Vote" button.

Off topic, but does the "Vote" button do anything? If you click it, it says you must select a score. If you select a score, you don't have to click the "Vote" button for the score to be entered.

So is the "Vote" button used for anything?

Replies:   helmut_meukel
helmut_meukel 🚫

@Switch Blayde

If you click it, it says you must select a score. If you select a score, you don't have to click the "Vote" button for the score to be entered.

So is the "Vote" button used for anything?

Hmm, IIRC, this was not always so. You could drop down the combo box, select a score then change your mind and avoid scoring by not clicking the "Vote" button. So it could happen you intended to vote, got distracted, didn't click the vote button and your vote got not registered.
Now to avoid voting after you selected a value, you have to reselect the uppermost entry.

The "Vote" button still functions to transmit your vote if you already had voted after a previous chapter, because the combo box shows your old vote and clicking the "Vote" button "updates" your vote to the same value and reports back to you the actual score of the story. If this score is significant lower than my vote value I assume '1-bomber' caused it and change my own vote one higher.

HM.

DBActive 🚫
Updated:

@Pixy

A couple of ideas to keep things reasonable:
1. Limit the number of stories people can post or list for sale per day/week/month.
2. Prevent or limit the opening of multiple profiles to avoid the creation of new user names to dodge the restrictions in #1.
3. Ban any stories that the detection tools indicate are AI generated.

Replies:   Michael Loucks
Michael Loucks 🚫

@DBActive

3. Ban any stories that the detection tools indicate are AI generated.

I've run some of my work through an AI detector, and mostly it's 99% human, but every once in a while, it'll be 50% AI, despite the fact that AI has never touched my work (unless you consider spelling/grammar checking to be AI).

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@Michael Loucks

(unless you consider spelling/grammar checking to be AI)

Must be all those em-dashes :-)

AJ

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@Pixy

I agree with your first point, but not the latter one. Content is good for readers, for the site and for anyone posting on the site, since the more people visiting due to the content, the more are viewing ALL of the content.

If someone feels they can't, they have to up their game. Either writing more engaging content or writing more popular stories.

Otherwise, there are many ways of increasing your views. Most tend to post on specific days, so figure out what days and times are the most popular and just post on the slower day. (Though honestly, most prefer posting on those busier days, as again there are more readers considering your story.

But pulling up the carpet just because some stories or authors aren't as popular as others equates to lowering the bar for everyone, thus making it even more difficult to gain traction.

In short, you argument doesn't make much sense.

Now, part of the 'too much content' issue is the sheer amount of utter dreck of late. With scores of 4s, 5s or low 6s, they're effective scaring readers away from the site. Kink is good, but too much of one thing is almost always detrimental, as variety is what keeps readers coming back.

But in the end, bad writers do badly for a reason, which includes those relying on AI to write for them. Again, they can either raise their game or poison the well for everyone here. And there are fewer and fewer stories on SOL of late that I have any real desire to read, or even to check for new release and updates.

So for me, the issue is the utter lack of decent content that's the biggest issue.

irvmull 🚫

@Pixy

In the recent past, I've only found one really good (IMHO) new story by stumbling across it on the "front page".

All the rest were found via links here (mostly in the CRS threads), or from reviews.

I suspect new, paying readers won't be looking here or there first, so might just decide to "move on, there's nothing to see here".

Mushroom 🚫

@Pixy

Part of the problem in here a year or so back became the flood of "cookie cutter" stories, which I suspect many of which were AI.

Tags were what I call "kitchen sink", where they had a ton of them, and a lot highly focused on incest. And now the AI is flooding the place also.

And voting can take hits I have seen, based on reader preferences. I had more than one tell me they hated something I wrote because it did not involve incest, or cheating, or something else. And forced voting would likely really screw up scores. With many hitting 10 or 1 on everything just to move to the next story.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@Mushroom

forced voting

I'm not in favor of forced voting. It would be a meaningless number.

Replies:   Mushroom
Mushroom 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I'm not in favor of forced voting. It would be a meaningless number.

I absolutely agree.

In fact, to me scores really do not mean all that much. I know that a lot of them are based on if the author met the "kinks" of the reader.

Replies:   Pixy
Pixy 🚫

@Mushroom

I'm well aware that a 'fanbase' can become problematic if you try a different direction, which is why I have 7 accounts here.

I do like a score. For me, it's the only realistic metric as to whether or not I am improving. Or worse, getting worse!

Replies:   Mushroom  Switch Blayde
Mushroom 🚫

@Pixy

I do like a score. For me, it's the only realistic metric as to whether or not I am improving. Or worse, getting worse!

I go more off of reader feedback.

Replies:   Pixy
Pixy 🚫

@Mushroom

I go more off of reader feedback.

Which is great....If you get any.... Almost all the (very) scant feedback I get, is "When is the next part of 'Beth' coming out..... πŸ˜‚

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@Pixy

When is the next part of 'Beth' coming out

Well? How about it?

AJ

Replies:   Pixy
Pixy 🚫

@awnlee jawking

πŸ˜›

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Pixy

For me, it's the only realistic metric as to whether or not I am improving. Or worse, getting worse!

The subject matter and content of the story could have more influence on the score than the author's writing skill. Keep that in mind.

Your writing could be improving, but if what you are now writing is abhorred by people, well…

TMax 🚫

@Pixy

To add mud to the mud, on votes, as I have improved in writing (and fingers crossed gained more notice) my first two, now three votes, are almost always one's (because I have so much and many low voted stories, I can sort and see the new stories at the bottom),
Two, for those that vote (fewer each week, except those ultra low), would love a secondary reason, why? Story, style, author name, font, wrong tags, wrong category, etc

Torn about ai, content yes, but AI learns from authors, which it replaces, so it learns from AI? Which then trains readers to read AI, but readers have less time to read, so AI reads and summarizes, looped.

Coming around to an AI/human tag, or a "checker believes 25-50% AI, writer knows AI enough to lower score, took time to read and change :)

irvmull 🚫
Updated:

@Pixy

If you want to see where this website is going, look at YouTube.

Once a place where you went to find out how to repair something or compare products, it is now inundated with AI-generated crap like:

"Japanese soldiers were shocked when American soldiers shared their __" (fill in the blank - coffee, chocolate, whatever), while showing AI generated images of soldiers in the wrong uniforms, and the AI narration talking about Dachau.

I, for one, was unaware that the Dachau concentration camp was run by the Japanese!

Perhaps even worse than bogus history are the "reacts to" videos, where some lazy jerk copies (a.k.a. steals) a useful video and "reacts to it".

As in "A Brit reacts to _", which for some reason, is usually narrated by someone with a thick Russian accent.

Where _ can be anything from deviled eggs, the Grand Canyon, to Bea Arthur in the Golden Girls.

I see that coming here soon.

Replies:   Pixy  TMax
Pixy 🚫

@irvmull

You know, I think you might have a valid point.

TMax 🚫

@irvmull

I guess that will partially solve the lack of feedback :) - so starved that I will take anything, even AI or Russian, or as some of the AI has turned out, two guys in their basement pretending to be chatbots.

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