Is it possible to fly 'dozens of captives' to safety in a 'single-engine Cessna' in one trip, or is that an AI hallucination?
AJ
Is it possible to fly 'dozens of captives' to safety in a 'single-engine Cessna' in one trip, or is that an AI hallucination?
AJ
Is it possible to fly 'dozens of captives' to safety in a 'single-engine Cessna' in one trip, or is that an AI hallucination?
Dozens as in more than one dozen (at least 24)? No. But that doesn't necessarily make it an AI hallucination. Plenty of human authors get shit like that wrong.
They do have a couple of single engine models that could handle 1 dozen passengers.
The Cessna Caravan and Grand Caravan EX are single engine turbo props and have a nominal capacity of 10-14 passengers.
On the other hand, what most people think of when you say single engine Cessna is their piston driven planes and the largest of those only seats six.
https://cessna.txtav.com/
You can't pack a plane like a clown car. Planes, especially small planes are sensitive to weight and weight distribution.
Exceed the maximum weight capacity and you probably won't get off the ground, and will probably crash if you do.
An unbalanced plane will be unstable in the air.
Dozens as in more than one dozen (at least 24)? No. But that doesn't necessarily make it an AI hallucination.
The story concerned is clearly AI-generated and has now been tagged to that effect.
As well as the dozens of captives freed from a people-trafficker's villa dungeon, the plane passengers would also have to include the rescue team, size unknown, who fought their way into the professionally, heavily-protected villa.
AJ
The story concerned is clearly AI-generated and has now been tagged to that effect.
Well, that context wasn't in your original post.
As well as the dozens of captives freed from a people-trafficker's villa dungeon, the plane passengers would also have to include the rescue team, size unknown, who fought their way into the professionally, heavily-protected villa.
Geoff Wolak who used to post on Storiesonline, has a series of novels about rescues using relatively small planes (but bigger than single-prop Cessnas). They tend to be a bit more realistic in terms of aircraft used and their limitations.
I think the answer depends on need and ingenuity.
Ask everyone here about how many people an AH-64 Apache can carry and the majority will possibly say two crew and that's it. Yet it has been used on more than one occasion as a troop transport carrying an additional four soldiers to the two crew.
So as to how many a Cessna can carry? Depends on how much room they have to take off, how heavy the captives are (how long have they been captive and how emaciated they are). How old the captives are (are they small children) and how much they have ripped out of the plane to make it lighter (seats, radio etc etc).
The Cessna 208B Grand Caravan can seat 9 passengers up to 14 under some conditions with a take off weight of 8,700 pounds.
So if you don't mind bending a few rules you can take as many passengers as you want by just using the limit of weight.
As an example if each passenger weighs 250 pounds then you could take 34 in one trip.
So if you want figure out what model of Cessna you have and look up its take off limit then judge if you fit that many in the plane.
The Cessna 208B Grand Caravan can seat 9 passengers up to 14 under some conditions with a take off weight of 8,700 pounds.
So if you don't mind bending a few rules you can take as many passengers as you want by just using the limit of weight.
I think that the maximum takeoff weight includes the weight of the aircraft and fuel.
The Cessna Grand Caravan EX (the version currently listed on their web site https://cessna.txtav.com/en/turboprop/grand-caravan-ex )
Shows the following:
Maximum Takeoff Weight 8,807 lb (3,995 kg)
Basic Empty Weight 5,310 lb (2,409 kg)
Useful Load 3,532 lb (1,602 kg)
So you only have 3,532 pounds for passengers assuming no luggage.
Using your 250 lb average that gives you a max of 14 passengers.
Interesting note: The maximum landing weight is 300 pounds less then the maximum takeoff weight.
Interesting note: The maximum landing weight is 300 pounds less then the maximum takeoff weight.
It's fun to share this bit of information with your passengers..."Any of you know how to use a parachute?"
Interesting note: The maximum landing weight is 300 pounds less then the maximum takeoff weight.
That is a limitation enforced by the structural integrity of the landing gear with reference to shock loading. The weight discrepancy is not really an issue since the weight of fuel used in take-off and flight will be factored in. The only time it would be of concern, would be if a maximum weighted aircraft needed to make an emergency landing straight after take off and there wasn't time to dump the fuel.
Basic Empty Weight 5,310 lb (2,409 kg)
And you also haver to factor in the weight of the fuel. One of the things I remember most from my ground school over 40 years ago was all the calculations we had to do for the weight of the fuel. I want to say we used 6 pounds per gallon.
A lot of aircraft once you factor in their typical passenger limit and fuel are rather close to their maximum weights.
Almost 30 years ago I was working in an office with someone who was going for his pilot's licence, and eventually he got it.
A few weeks later he asked a couple of us whether we'd like to go for a test flight with him.
It was a 4-seater plane, my guess would be a Cessna of some description. He was a big guy who played Center in a local American Football team, I think he weighed around 125KG at the time. I weighed around 70KG and the other passenger came in at around 90KG.
When we took off the pilot was complaining that the plane was a bit sluggish, when we landed roughly 60km / 38 miles away the landing seemed to be fairly normal. We had a meal at the airport and our pilot asked us for our weights, a quick sum and he told us the plane had been a bit overweight because the fuel tank was full. He had not felt the need to check the weight before we left because there were only three of us.
The flight back was just fine, I don't know how much fuel he'd used but it seemed to have made a difference.
He had another "learning experience" a few months later. Flying south on a rather hazy day, he came to a stretch of open water. A few minutes later he checked his heading and realised that he was heading north - he'd changed course by roughly 180 degrees in a few miles. This was around the time one of the Kennedys (an inexperienced pilot) was flying to Martha's Vineyard with a friend or two. He lost his bearings over the sea and there were no survivors. Even the distances involved were similar, I've been to the stretch of water my friend was flying over and you can see the south shore from the north one, and vice versa. At least the guy I knew could tell us about it on the following Monday.
So if you don't mind bending a few rules you can take as many passengers as you want by just using the limit of weight.
Such as one adult male weighing 140 lbs and and to be determined number of 14 year old girls topping out at 100 each.
If you are talking about a common, non-turboprop Cessna, your are only talking about a maximum of 1400 pounds "useful" weight capacity. Or 4-6 passangers.
Digressing as threads do, the fall of Danang saw a 131 seat Boeing 727 take off with 330 souls in board. IIRC there were soldiers trying to fight their way up the rear ramp as it was taking off. Video used to be on YouTube. The destruction of Darwin in Australia by Cyclone Tracy led to the evacuation of the city by air, one 747 rated for 419 passengers took off with 698 on board. A C130 carrying emergency supplies left Sydney 21,000 pounds over maximum take off weight. Larger aircraft have a margin of error above stated maximums. I suspect a Caravan in cargo mode could carry a couple of dozen small kids in a 'baby lift' evacuation, not adults.
For those that are interested, recollections of the pilots from the Darwin evacuation are on PPrune pilots forum, as are references to Danang.
Depends on the number of passengers it is designed to carry -- Power. lift, and weight.
Runway length can also play a factor. An exceptionally long runway can give a plan struggling with lift more room to get off the ground.
Runway length can also play a factor. An exceptionally long runway can give a plan struggling with lift more room to get off the ground.
OTOH, looking only at the min. runway length to decide the optimal airplane for the story isn't enough, you should consider it's max. climb rate too. The terrain beyond the runway may favor an airplane which needs a slightly (10-15%) longer runway but has a far higher (double) max. climb rate.
For an contemporary story the Pilatus PC-24 may be a good selection with
Take-off: 942 m; 3,091 ft (MTOW, ISA, sea level, dry paved runway);
Rate of climb: 20.1 m/s (3,960 ft/min) MTOW, at Sea level;
Crew: one or two;
Capacity: 10 passengers;
Empty weight: 5,244 kg (11,561 lb);
Max takeoff weight: 8,500 kg (18,739 lb) Max ramp weight: 8,545 kg (18,839 lb);
Fuel capacity: 2,705 kg (5,964 lb), 888.5 US gal (3,363 L);
Max payload: 1,406 kg (3,100 lb);
Range: 3,700 km (2,300 mi, 2,000 nmi) , 6 passengers (1,200 lb payload).
As of February 2020, the aircraft is certified to operate from/to grass, wet earth, dry sand, gravel and snow.
First delivery was in 4th Q. 2017. Number built 212 (as of Q1 2024).
While the PC-24 has two jet engines, it's older smaller brother PC-12 has a single turboprop engine. Type certification mid 1994. Number built 2,000 (as of May 2023). On 14 March 2025, Pilatus announced a new version of the PC-12 called the PRO. Delivery is expected to begin in early fall of 2025.
HM.
OTOH, looking only at the min. runway length to decide the optimal airplane for the story isn't enough, you should consider it's max. climb rate too. The terrain beyond the runway may favor an airplane which needs a slightly (10-15%) longer runway but has a far higher (double) max. climb rate.
As I sit here creating Airfield Airspace Analysis for various airports around the USA. I compile the data and make report's which get handed off to the engineers to decide whether to mitigate or adjust thresholds.
I was working at Frankfurt Airport around 1984/85 and one day someone in the office said "look at that". "That" was a 747 taking off towards the west, and we saw it just clear the perimeter fence before continuing a slow, laborious climb. Wikipedia says that runway is 4km long.
There were no reports of any plane crashes that day so we assumed it managed to get where it was going to.