I'm making good progress on my next story, but it's non-linear.
I jump about writing bits of various chapters. I rewrite and revise others.
It means I can't publish chapters as I go, at least not yet.
Example, I add some plot twist, then go back to add foreshadowing.
Sometimes, I decide to change a character name.
Often a chapter is too busy, too much going on. I have to split it up into multiple chapters.
I guess I must wait for the churn to settle down. :)
This is how I almost always write, part of why I publish so rarely. I'll brush in parts of scenes but not have a clear idea how to link them at the time so move on.
Such an approach is hardly uncommon. For most who write like that, we simply wait until the entire story is done before posting anything. This has the added benefit in that, once the story is complete, you can officially publish—if you're so inclined—before you begin posting, and thus allowing readers the option or purchasing the entire story is they're too impatient to wait.
In fact, I often take it even further, offering a substantial discount for those who're interested—often for a full series—as selling a combined set is cheaper than selling the individually. However, in that case, you often require a proven history as an author (i.e. an ability to regularly write convincing engaging books, no matter the subject matter or topic).
In my case, I don't consider any first draft to be complete until I see how the story ends, so I'll know where it's going and I'll then add all the necessary foreshadowing and misdirection to ensure the final conclusion isn't painfully obvious to readers. But adding the foreshadowing before you know the full story arc is putting the card ahead of the whoring horse.
But you're still feeling your way forward, which necessarily takes time as you likely don't know who you are as an author yet. Once you do, it'll be much easier knowing how best to write your stories.
And yeah, changing character names mid-stream isn't uncommon either, either because you have other characters with the same name or because their name simply no longer fits them for whatever reason. (I'll often name my characters using the names of my previous protagonists, forgetting which characters my current protagonist is, as after a while, it gets to be hard keeping track of ALL those names. ;)
It means I can't publish chapters as I go, at least not yet.
Your writing habits make completing the story before posting the way to go, for you.
I am not aware of any significant advantage to the post as you write methodology. I am also aware of many major disadvantages to that methodology.
Remember that once a chapter is posted, the content is locked into your readers' memory. Making changes other than correcting errors to a posted chapter is not a good idea. It upsets your readers if you change the details on which the story is based. Doing so can confuse you readers; especially if you make multiple major changes to the same or multiple chapters.
For myself, I find that getting feedback from readers along the way can often improve the book in ways that would be hard to reproduce if the book was finished before publishing. Not impossible - nothing is 'done' until it's published - but it's harder to add and fix after primary editing is done.
I completely agree about changing substantive content after publishing. That's usually a bad idea.
However, for those who post online and publish independently, then fixing the inevitable typos, or correcting misassumptions once a reader points out what's wrong with what you wrote about an unfamiliar subject, won't change the story itself, as they're simply spot fixes, corrections, not changing the plots (hopefully) at all.
But, that's also why I never rewrite. Because every time I do, the story goes in an all-new direction, creating an all new book, a perversion of the old one rather than my writing something new and original. I've tried, and at least for me, it NEVER works. But, that's likely just me.
That said, one thing I HATE about SOL lately, are all the authors who've been reposting their older works, so there's no way to tell what's new and what's been there all along. Which really pisses me off! As just like when I 'revise' an existing work, streamlining a story you often remove the extraneous parts, which are often the most-loved segments.
So for me, I'd rather see revisions posted under a new title, so I can at least compare and contrast the two works, seeing what happened to my favorites scenes and where the new work may have gone astray.
That said, one thing I HATE about SOL lately, are all the authors who've been reposting their older works, so there's no way to tell what's new and what's been there all along.
If the author updates the story, it will be noted at the end where there's a first posting date and then an edited or something like that date. If the author deletes the original story and then posts a revised version, you can't tell necessarily.
This is an interesting point. For me, I'm torn between updating all of the chapter versions to 2.00 (something Laz would have to do for me) or posting a revised version as a separate story. The second is somewhat more intellectually honest, but likely confusing to readers.
An alternative is to repost all of the chapters and also post (or otherwise make available) the previous versions.
I have readers who will want to see all of the changes. Only one planned change truly affects the story, and it affects it in a truly minor way - one part of a vacation takes place in a different city, to fix a screwed-up train map error on my part - no effect on characters, plot, etc. But they'll want to see what else changed, I suspect. This isn't going to be the Star Wars Special Editions, even, in terms of changes.
There's some question as to how long those should be maintained, though. At some point, the new version is 'the story,' and the old versions should sail off into the sunset.
For me, if I were doing that, I'd add a notice before the changed portions, explaining what's I'd done and why. At least for me, that seems like a more straightforward, honest approach.
Then again, I have been known to save the new version and then do a 'compare and contrast' between the two to highlight specifically what has changed, yet that only works if you're saved the original, as after a few decades, the list of 'save stories' can become a bit overwhelming.
Yep, that's what I was referring to, yet this seems a new phenomenon, where someone authors repost their older stories in order to keep their story active on in front of readers, if effect, trying to 'gin up' additional votes. The problem with that is, there's no way to tell which IS a new version, a new revision of which is just a recycling of the same old crap (no offense to those recycling stories, as we all do what we need to, to get ahead).
Example, I add some plot twist, then go back to add foreshadowing.
Sometimes, I decide to change a character name.
Often a chapter is too busy, too much going on. I have to split it up into multiple chapters.
Those are some of the reasons I complete a story before posting. There are also times something happens in a later chapter than affects a previous chapter so I have to change the previous chapter to make the later chapter work (not necessarily foreshadowing).
I applaud those of you who complete your stories before posting. It seems like half of the stories posted never get finished. cmsix was famous for that. He would get bored with a story and start a new one.
More often, he's start a story and then have no clue how to continue it. There's a reason he penned more incomplete stories than any other on SOL, he'd always start off strong yet he'd petter out only partway through. Yet he inspired many SOL authors who could and did write full complete and engaging stoires.
Essentially, he never quite grasped the concept of a 'story arc' so never knew HOW to fully develop a story. Which is sad, all that potential yet no dedication to the storytelling craft at all. Possible ADD, maybe?
Then you are one of the ones I salute.
🙇♂️ 🤜🤛 👍
[Couldn't find an emoji that was saluting.]
I'm making good progress on my next story, but it's non-linear.
When I first read that, I felt a cold knot of fear in my stomach. Then I realised you meant the progress was non-linear, not the story :-)
AJ
Technically, that would be "meandering" rather than "non-linear", which does describe many SOL stories.
By non-linear, I mean I jump back and forth between chapters. I shuffle scenes. The linear nature of the story is in a state of flux until it settles down. Character names change, attributes change. Everything is open to change.
'Non-linear' would be the applicable term if the reference is to a discrete state progression, where the map is an ordered set of directed vertices. I would guess that is where the term for 'non-linear video editing' comes from.
It would may not be correct where the reference is for a time domain plot of the content, as that could indicate a progression of literary content that is directly proportional to time.
Whatever the term is supposed to mean, I do know of at least two well-known S/F writers that have used that method.
I felt a cold knot of fear in my stomach. Then I realised you meant the progress was non-linear, not the story
The movie "Pulp Fiction" is not linear.
The movie "Pulp Fiction" is not linear.
It can work well but it's very difficult to pull off. I've even read a few stories on SOL where it works quite well. I've read even more car crashes though.
AJ
I started on another site where the practice looked to be to publish each chapter as it's finished. Later I moved here. Unfortunately, I didn't often have time or inspiration, and the project lagged. I'm back on it, when I can, but posting is erratic.
To the original question. I've normally written sequentially. When I finished chapter 14 a couple weeks ago, I fully outlined and plotted every scene of chapter 15 (of an eventual 19) As the last scene of 15 is pivotal, I wrote it first, and as there's a cliff hanger it bleeds into 16, I just kept going until the scene was complete. Last night and this morning I got the first draft of scene 5 of chapter 15, as that's what I was visualizing, so I wanted to get it written before I forgot the details.
I have written a story where I had some notes for the entire storyline. The first chapter to be completed was actually the epilogue.
I've had the full story outlined with all the major plot points, As I start writing each chapter I already know where it will start and end and the major events, but then it's time to zoom in and determine the details the fill out the text, which might be half the total of each chapter. Going from knowing what will happen to the details of how it happens/ 'Chris will snap at the end of the chapter. What do I need to add to get him progressively ramped up?'
I do something similar, but it's now filling in descriptions rather than actions. For me, at least, the action pretty much writes itself, but descriptions take time, as it's essentially separate from the main story arc. Plus, I've never been a natural at descriptive passages, and thus have to work doubly hard at it.
The key to most of these comment posts is that non-secular stories are highly unusual, so what we mostly get are completely secular stories with a few non-secular diversions, almost exclusively either the first or the last chapter, and still few flashbacks or flash-forwards.
If nothing else, I'd expect a few alternate approaches, but again, it took me a LONG time doing research into matching flashbacks and matching flash-forwards, as those few non-sequence interludes take a LOT of work. I've read a few best-selling novels from a long time ago which did more, alternately flicking backwards and forwards in time in alternating segments, where they'd spend some time in each time period, but again, those too were quite rare—mostly intergenerational family tales and a few fiction war stories where each flashback/flashforwords took several chapters.
Again, non-secular stories are incredibly hard to pull off. So the closest I've seen are the few 'stream-of-consciousness' stories from the 60s and 70s from writers who'd spend time experimenting with LSD or other psychedelics. And frankly, today that's more dedicated research than most are willing to devote to ANY single story. ;)
But knowing a few friends, only one still alive, who still continue such experimentation, I can see how it can be beneficial. Some times, experimentation pays off, yet it often takes considerable effort getting it to truly pay off.
So, who knows, maybe it's time for a little creative due-diligence of my own? Only, I'm unsure how many remaining functioning brain cells I can afford to lose.
But knowing a few friends, only one still alive, who still continue such experimentation,
Not trying to be critical about this, but if MULTIPLE FRIENDS, only ONE of which is still alive, are STILL experimenting, that logically means you have DECEASED FRIENDS experimenting... The possibilities boggle the mind.
Other than that, I am sorry for your loss.
Not trying to be critical about this, but if MULTIPLE FRIENDS, only ONE of which is still alive, are STILL experimenting, that logically means you have DECEASED FRIENDS experimenting... The possibilities boggle the mind.
Other than that, I am sorry for your loss.
Maybe they are into Body Farming
Not trying to be critical about this, but if MULTIPLE FRIENDS, only ONE of which is still alive, are STILL experimenting, that logically means you have DECEASED FRIENDS experimenting..
Ether that or undead friends. Vampire stories are kind of popular. :)
Vamps on LSD
Hmm.
I've read vampire stories (dead tree) vampires couldn't get drunk or high using directly instead they have to drink the blood of a human who is drunk or high.
Sorry, but most quit after their first 'bad trip', whereas my friend is fully into anypsychedelic experience, evaluating one against all the others. In short, he and his wife never quite left the 1960s behind, still dressing the same way now too.
I used "non-secular", rather than "secular", so obviously I mistakenly used "nonlinear" rather than "nonsecular", since nonsecular doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
I'm non-English, but isn't "secular" = non-religious? So then, "nonsecular story" would refer to... a story deeply based on a particular set of religious beliefs?
I think that's the error being pointed out. I was mildly confused too a first sentence or two, say, why would you all a sudden bring up religion in this context...
Secular is not non-religious. You could be agnostic (where you are not actively religious but do not dispute the presence of god) or atheist (where you dispute the presence of a god).
Secular, in theory, is a thought process where you consider all religions equal.
This is the definition from Google, channeling Oxford Languages:
denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis.
agnostic (where you are not actively religious but do not dispute the presence of god)
That is not the correct definition of 'agnostic'.
@Tantrayaan
agnostic (where you are not actively religious but do not dispute the presence of god)
That is not the correct definition of 'agnostic'.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnostic
1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable
broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2: a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something
This, "where you are not actively religious but do not dispute the presence of god", seems reasonably close to me.
An agnostic is someone who has questioned the existence of a god but come to the conclusion that there is no current resolution.
I think that implies an agnostic would dispute both an assertion of the existence of a god and assertion of the nonexistence of a god, and demand concrete evidence either way.
Originally agnosticism meant believing the existence or nonexistence of a god was unknowable. It's good to see modern dictionaries also include the sensu lato meaning of currently unknown.
AJ
Indeed. I'm a radical agnostic. I believe anyone who asserts anything about God is either maliciously lying or a victim of delusions. That includes atheists who say there's no God.
Indeed. I'm a radical agnostic. I believe anyone who asserts anything about God is either maliciously lying or a victim of delusions. That includes atheists who say there's no God.
And also includes radical agnostics?
Yes, of course. If I'm ever preaching, I do it for some sort of goal, usually perverted.
ETA: I believe preaching should have consent requirements similar to sex. That naturally means no one can preach to minors.
More accurately, non-secular tends to focus on 'nonspiritual' rather than focused on any particular religious belief. Thus it's essentially an odd combination of secular and non-secular. But that's more of how I learned to think of it, growing up around a wide variety of differing extremes of religious thought. So, it may be a self-coined term of my own creation.
Again, 'agnostic' IS a specific religious belief (i.e. choosing to non-religious, as in, I'm not willing to voice an opinion of which religious beliefs are valid or not), as thus is distinctly different than an atheist.