In British English:
The plural of 'craft', meaning skilled hand manufacturing (eg knitting, embroidery, wood carving) is 'crafts'.
The plural of 'craft', meaning a transportation vessel (eg boat, plane, spaceship, drone) is 'craft'.
Do other variants of English differ?
AJ
I think, in American English, the plural of the knitting, embrodery, etc., is often reduced to 'a craft,' but don't quote me on that...
I barely speak American English so good...
Like I said, I don't speak English so good… (I passed high school, but didn't get much further… Too many years working 911 EMS probably didn't help, either…)
If you are good at embroidery and make multiple pieces of art, you have made several crafts and are a master of a craft.
If you are good at embroidery, and woodcarving, and origami, you are a master of several crafts.
That's more of a category, but yes, American English supports the same plural usage of "crafts".
The plural of 'craft', meaning a transportation vessel (eg boat, plane, spaceship, drone) is 'craft'.
I never knew that.
And I already forgot it. If that ever comes up in my writing, which I doubt, I will do it wrong. That is a stupid, stupid rule.
You might do it right without realizing, actually! It looks odd because in this context "craft" usually has a prefix - if you see two fixed wing gliders and a biplane, would you say that there are three aircraft, or three aircrafts?
If the planes were all from a certain manufacturer, I might ask the owner, "How many Beechcrafts do you own?" In that context, to me 'Beechcraft' feels less right than 'Beechcrafts'.
ETA - from the horse's mouth, and despite Google AI's best attempts to thwart me, it's 'Beechcrafts'.
AJ
Making necklaces out of shells is one of the beach crafts, too.
Sorry, won't happen again.
Sounds like we have been infested with punatics.
File a complaint with the Grand Punsil of Punnsylvania and they may pun-ish the offenders. :)
I live at the beach. It does happen, as do beachgrass necklaces, , painted turtle shells and of course plaster casts of footprints in the sand, sand glass (broken glass bottles which have been worn by the sand and waves, and the one my brother does quite well with, fulgurites (crystalized sand lightning strikes).
Though nowadays, much of it's done commercially, rather than by artistic craftsmen who are more interested in larger artworks they can charge more for, rather than 'hobby crafts'. And kids selling such things has gone the way of lemonade stands, largely due to local communities requiring a commercial license for kids earning mere pocket change. :(
Actually, it's more common to refer to the type of aircraft: biplane, plane, jet, fighter, fighter jet, crop duster, etc. So "I have three Beechcrafts" means you ONLY have Beechcrafts, which is so similar to Beach crafts (painted shells, artful collections of seagrasses—the one's on the beach, not the underwater ones, etc.), it makes my poor wittle brain hurt.
In that context, to me 'Beechcraft' feels less right than 'Beechcrafts'.
I don't know why you're bringing this up. If you want an explanation of how proper nouns work in english, feel free to ask. I'll probably suggest you read a textbook.
Still, it is a fairly common mistake, which most SOL authors just haven't considered. Hell, I had to teach myself grammar, punctuation and whole host of other details before I ever write my first story, long before I even considered posting here.
Most just dive in, without ever considering how much they don't actually know. While that's always my starting point, often with each new story, as there's always a TON I don't know about any subject, so total ignorance is my default assumption.
Again, crafts is the plural of 'artful skills', while craft means vessel. Thus the plural of those vessels is … craft. You gotta have some way of telling them apart. Now, if your craft is constructing craft, while someone else's is constructing crafts, you can leave multiple readers scratching their heads.
Thus the plural of those vessels is … craft.
Which is what makes no sense to me. The aircraft being plural does, but not the standalone craft. When I run into a situation like that, when it sounds awful to my ear, I rearrange the sentence to avoid it.
Do not try to make any sense of English! You'll only hurt your brain!
I think you previously posted something about how many exceptions there are to the 'rules' of English. I had that in mind when I posted this. And I'd recently come across a couple of instances that grated with what I'd been taught - one story mentioned crafts in a harbour and another used aircrafts when in the context of presidential planes.
AJ
The Americans took exception to English back in the late seventeen hundreds and continues to this day. ;)
"Two nations separated by a common language..." - Winston Churchill
And, the "Boston Accent?" Sounds a lot like UK English...
Hah! UK English? Try wandering around London some, there are SO many regional accents in a very small locale, you can't tell whether you're coming or going. Yet, that's what makes it so fun. I haven't been back in a long time, yet I can still mostly identify where each London accent originates. It's kinda like roundabout, if you don't know what you're doing, watch out!
one story mentioned crafts in a harbour and another used aircrafts when in the context of presidential planes.
If you put a modified on it, such as 'small' it doesn't take the 's' plural:
aircraft
smallcraft
witchcraft
tradecraft
statecraft
mastercraft
But:
arts and crafts
If you put a modified on it, such as 'small' it doesn't take the 's' plural:
aircraft
smallcraft
witchcraft
tradecraft
statecraft
mastercraft
But:
arts and crafts
Aircraft and smallcraft refer to vehicles, and are the same form for both singular and plural.
Witchcraft, tradecraft, statecraft, and mastercraft are skilled practices, each one in a singular form. It's possible but non-sensical to make them plural; it only works when you refer to multiple different skilled practices, which is the case in "arts and *crafts*".
Or in other words exactly as AJ described the usage.
No, that's trying to make sense of Shakespearian verse. English evolves all on it's own accord, as it's a 'living language'.
Once again, completely (and I say intentionallY) trying to make me say something I did not say.
I said NOTHING about Shakespeare. I was speaking about modern English. Period.
There is an expression that fits here. "The exception proves the rule." And in English, there are more exceptions than not.
Those are two different words, just spelled the same, thanks to English.
I suppose it could also be blamed on sailors, they have lots of words with unusual meanings. Some, like "knots" have a rational explanation. For some others, its a reach, like back, bend, fix, head, heel, jury...
Even worse, sometimes words have multiple roots, like mixing Ancient Roman prefixes, old Gaelic terms and Ancient Greek suffixes. As each has a different meaning, form, usage and structure. (I spend a LOT of time studying etymologies.)
And then there's "year" and "years" as in
"My car, 16 years old" and "My 16 year old car"
Ian
"My car, 16 years old" and "My 16 year old car"
And spell checker keeps trying to correct the latter example.
Yep, problem is, whether you use hyphens is determined by context, so the 'add hyphen' question is a page-setting, setting, so it'll know where to cut sentences in an attempt to save a page or two over the course of a full novel. Yet I prefer leaving my sentences and words intact rather than playing games, since I most sell eBooks anyway, where page count doesn't matter. However, for print books, page count significantly affects book cost/profitability.
"My car, 16 years old" and "My 16 year old car"
I don't know how reliable the source is but one site reckons:
Hyphenate when the phrase functions as an adjective before a noun (e.g., "two-year-old daughter," "six-week-old puppy") or when it functions as a noun (e.g., "he behaves like a four-year-old," "the 10-year-old was staring"). Don't hyphenate when the phrase is used as an adjective after the noun.
AJ
Or when it's "She's four years old," when there's no need to hyphenate. Again, for every rule, there are usually many more exceptions.
Or when it's "She's four years old," when there's no need to hyphenate. Again, for every rule, there are usually many more exceptions.
'She' is the noun. The phrase follows the noun. Not an exception.
AJ
As usual, I was making a point, not addressing the latest post. I've got a multi-track ADD brain, the worst of both worlds.
"My car, 16 years old" and "My 16 year old car"
The latter should be "16-year-old" with hyphens. It's an adjective to the noun "car."
Well Sir Winston Churchill once wrote
One must regard the hyphen as a blemish to be avoided wherever possible
I agree with him (at least on this). I would never use a hyphen in this context.
Ian
I would never use a hyphen in this context.
Then you're not following the rules of compound adjectives. Google "compound adjective" and you'll find how the hyphens are used with them. The following is from dictionary.com which was the first one in the search results (actually Grammarly came first, but the dictionary.com one is clearer).
A compound adjective is an adjective that is made up of multiple individual words. Usually, the words are connected by a hyphen or hyphens when used as an adjective. Words like absent-minded and happy-go-lucky are examples of compound adjectives.
Besides the potential use of hyphens, compound adjectives act the same as any other adjectives: they are used to modify nouns and pronouns, and they often appear directly before the word that they modify.
Sometimes, a writer may not use hyphens when using a compound adjective. Instead, they may use quotation marks or italics to indicate they are using multiple words together as a compound adjective. For example,
Nobody liked Jake and his "holier than thou" attitude.
Nobody liked Jake and his "holier than thou" attitude.
If I were to use quotes in that situation, I'd be worried about the reader being able to discern whether it was intended as sarcasm.
AJ
That's when you use 'alternating quotes', switching between single and double quotations based on the context. Yet, if the term is either stated or quoted, then you'd use double quote it, only using single quotes when you're referring to concepts or common noteworthy phrases (adages).
So, if you're writing about Shakespeare or his works, you'd put "To be or not to be" in double quotes, yet when referencing the phrase concerning something else entirely, you'd us alternate quotation marks to denote is wasn't a direct quote, taken from his works.
Say, if you were to write 'To be or not to be an overly pedantic tuna-fish sandwich'.
If you use double quotes for direct speech and single quotes for quotations, what alternate set would you use for compound adjectives/adjectival phrases?
AJ
If you use double quotes for direct speech and single quotes for quotations, what alternate set would you use for compound adjectives/adjectival phrases?
I put interior quotations in italics, in addition to the single quote, given it has double-duty. I use "" (guillemot ) for foreign language quotes.
I don't use Google search. But I did do a search, and the third hit was as follows
A compound adjective is formed when two or more words are combined to modify a noun, often using hyphens to clarify their relationship, such as "well-known" or "high-speed." These adjectives help provide more specific descriptions in writing.
As I said, I would not use hyphens in that specific context as IMHO it is not necessary to clarify their relationship.
YMMV
Ian
You're confounding two different hyphen usages. A compound, multi-word adjective is typically always hyphenated. It's the paragraph hyphenations which are the bigger issue.
However, it's also entirely possible that Sir Churchill simply preferred avoiding multi-word adjectives entirely, and thus simply stuck to single word adjectives. But it'd take a fairly deep-dive into his writings (i.e. his personal letters) to determine this, as like many, his Autobiography was likely 'polished' by someone else.
Some famous figures were notoriously literate—writing often and fluently—while others stuck to the basic facts without embellishing much. So to justify the publishing contract, publishers aren't shy about professional 'embellishments' by trained editors/ghostwriters or collaborators—like wives, mistresses or lovers (both sexes).
I'm not implying anything about Winston himself, yet these things do happen. How often is never very clear (i.e. anonymous), yet ghostwriting is a highly lucrative profession for a reason. While Sir Win was a very eloquent speaker and an active letter-writer too.
Again, no two writers ever write the same way as any other. They may follow similar styles, yet everyone is uniquely themselves, except for those who are paid to sound like someone else. ;)
However, it's also entirely possible that Sir Churchill simply preferred avoiding multi-word adjectives entirely, and thus simply stuck to single word in adjectives.
Churchill was known for using 'gutty' language rather than 'intestinal' phraseology, so I think you are right in your assumption: avoid compound-noun adjectives that need hyphens, rather than skipping the hyphens in compound-noun adjectives.