Forum: Author Hangout

Oh yeah, scat play.

I wouldn't read 'scat' stories for light entertainment but in the past I've held my nose and edited one or two.

AJ

One would think it causes cancer in the reader or something.

Smoking is a difficult addiction to kick for it involves both physical and mental dependency. My attitude back then was I needed to have another cigarette now and the possibility of cancer was a slim possibility in the distant future. I had smoked for over 20 years and was able to quit about 40 years ago. I still have an occasional desire to light up a cigarette.

One of the things that helped me quit was a friend telling me to take a drag on my cigarette and then blow the smoke through a white handkerchief. The result was a large brownish stain on the handkerchief. He then said that gunk is coating your mouth, esophagus, and lungs.

That image helped motivate me but it took several attempts before I found a way to quit that worked for me.

Smoking is a difficult addiction to kick

The first time I quit smoking was tough, but I did it. Then I went into basic training (Army) where we were occasionally told, "Smoke 'em if you got 'em." If you didn't smoke, you didn't get the break so of course I started smoking again. Also, a carton of cigarettes was $1.73 in the PX.

But when I got out of basic training and AIT, quitting was a breeze. I knew I did it before so I simply never smoked again.

I started smoking in AF basic training. Not sure why, but seem to recall wanting to do something during those 'smoke em if you have em' breaks. Stupid reason to start smoking, but as you said, back then it was an inexpensive vice and helped fill in the time. Thought it would be easy to quit, but found that I have an additive personality, predominantly food, tobacco, and alcohol. I did skip drugs and a few other behaviors.

Same — I filter snuff, torture, and scat. No thanks.

I filter snuff, torture, and scat. No thanks.

I don't filter any tags even though there are some that would cause me to skip the story. I don't filter them because I want to make the final decision. If the story looks good, I may read it and when I come upon one of my squicks, I simply scan through it.

As to torture, several people mentioned they won't read a story with that tag. When I write a story with torture, it has nothing to do with sex. It's a bad guy torturing someone because they're evil or the good guy torturing someone to get information. The latter occurred in the movie "Dirty Harry."

ETA: I just realized this is an old thread that was resurrected from the dead. I wish it was more clear when that happens. I shouldn't have replied.

If the story looks good, I may read it and when I come upon one of my squicks, I simply scan through it.

That is a sensible, balanced approach. I never understood why some people have to make a drama and in depth critique about how and why they were offended. A bit like the individual in the other thread whose only achievement was to make themselves look emotionally fragile and to scare off amateur writers from asking for advice. Which, sadly, is detrimental to the site as a whole.

ETA: I just realized this is an old thread that was resurrected from the dead. I wish it was more clear when that happens. I shouldn't have replied.

I disagree. Too often someone has a question, doesn't see it on the "first" page of the forum, so they create a new thread. Other posters mention the answer(s) are on a similar thread.

It is often suggested that people search the threads in the forums before creating a new thread.

I would rather see an "old thread" resurrected, than umpteen threads scattered on several pages through out the forums.

Your reply is valid, and it brings to the forefront a worthwhile topic.

As for the OP. I filter several things, in particular: Snuff, Scat, Futanari, M/M (and variations), as well as Trans / CD / etc. I typically filter out "Stoke" and much sex stories.

I came here because of a very short story about the 1950-1953 War in Korea. Mostly I read military, action, westerns, mysteries, Sci-Fi, and other stories here on SoL. I have read some of the stories where sex is an important part of the story. Grey Wolf, Jay Cantrell, Aroslav, and others do this particularly well.

So, I probably use more filters than others.

I would rather see an "old thread" resurrected, than umpteen threads scattered on several pages through out the forums.

True. I just wish there was a way for it to be identified that it's old. Often I don't realize it until I come upon one of my own posts. Maybe the problem is caused when I have to delete cookies and history so the thread looks like it's never been read by me.

Most often, obsessions start because of the rarity of the item.

There is no industry standard sizing system.

Much to the annoyance of every woman in my life!

Ditto dress sizes. I know if I need 34/32 slacks, so long as the cut is similar, the fit will be similar. Same for 16.5/33 dress shirts. Dresses marked with the same size can be wildly different in actual size.

Or, to quote the late Frank Zappa, "Anything over a mouthful is wasted" ;-)

Obviously not a fan of boob jobs :-)

(ETA the SOL tag for that is tit-fucking.)

AJ

Although I am creeping past retirement age and have had interactions with many sizes of breasts, I still don't have any idea how to tell a cup size by sight.

Become an author. They know instinctively :-)

AJ

Though id say the worst thing an author can do is put something in a story the reader will hate and not warn them with codes....

Agreed. I'll killfile an author if they include any BDSM content but don't code it. When I included a very minor rape scene I coded it, but also gave instructions in the forward on how to skip it.

It can get a bit confusing, though. I have a story in progress that includes a guy giving his trans girlfriend a blow job. I don't plan on coding it mm, but I'm sure some people would think it should be.

If you code a bra a poisonous snake a cobra can occur.

Just like that! A bra code a bra!

AJ

Please do not encourage him.

Actually I feel for him as a fellow human being. I suspect he is hurting somewhat at being sent to Coventry. So perhaps I intended a little encouragement, since I didn't judge his contribution this time to be overboard - I'm guilty of similar levels of irrelevance. Besides, I'd just solved a crossword clue whose answer was 'Aladdin' :-)

AJ

a guy giving his trans girlfriend a blow job. I don't plan on coding it mm

You mean a biological male who transitioned to female but still has a working dick? Definitely mm, although the TransGender tag should take care of it.

Transitioned, but no surgery. Similar to Unca D's Jeff and Chelsey in that regard.

Tear Jerker

I can understand all the other ones. But Tear Jerker? You're missing on some great stories that carry this one.

I agree — that's why I exclude so many tags myself. Happy endings are one of my favorite parts of a story. Does that make me shallow? Who cares — the only one I have to satisfy is me.

Many of the Tear Jerker stories wind up HEA.

The deeper the depths plumbed by a protagonist, the higher they soar after everything changes for the better.

AJ

Fan Fiction

I'm glad I'm not the only one. If a story requires preknowledge to be able to understand it, I consider that I'm not in that story's target audience.

AJ

Some of the issue is that some authors have no Idea how to use the synopsis.

I understand what a synopsis is. I just have some difficulty writing an effective one. Partly because I don't want to reveal some "plot twists" or like too many modern movie trailers, put the whole story in the synopsis.

Mostly, it is lack of practice. I probably should look up some good guides to writing a synopsis. Partially, it is that I prefer a synopsis different from what most people seem to prefer; at least on printed books.

I'm not sure if I know how to appeal to a wider audience. (Which is a significant reason that I post my stories on SoL.) Yet, I do want more people to read my stories. Because I feel that people should understand about certain military matters. But set in a fictional setting, so as to avoid the prejudices related to recent contemporary/historical conflicts.

If anyone has ideas on threads on Writing a synopsis on the SoL forum, or elsewhere; please PM me. Thanks.

I understand what a synopsis is. I just have some difficulty writing an effective one. Partly because I don't want to reveal some "plot twists" or like too many modern movie trailers, put the whole story in the synopsis.

Don't look up how to write a synopsis. That isn't what you want. The synopsis will have all the plot twists and everything else in the story. For example, a synopsis is given to a Development Editor who looks for plot holes, character development/inconsistencies, flow, etc. before the story is written. It's also used by a publisher as part of the submission. The publisher wants to know everything about the novel in a nutshell.

The industry term for the SOL description is blurb. That's what you should look up. The blurb is a marketing tool to get the reader to buy the book (or on SOL, to read it). It's what you see on the book jacket of a novel.

blurb. That's what you should look up. The blurb is a marketing tool to get the reader to buy the book (or on SOL, to read it). It's what you see on the book jacket of a novel.

Thank you. Excellent points. I have used the term Blurb before, on other threads of this forum. I was trying to use the terms used in the OP.

But, Yes. I intend to research how to write a Better Blurb.

It is good advice for many of us who post stories here on SoL.

That is indeed a tricky one. I think the situation is more complicated than that. I have a friend that runs a bookshop and we regularly chat about things from a sellers point of view.

One of their biggest bug-bears, is that they know what sells in the area (of Scotland) however the head office is in England and regularly sends up shipments laden with inappropriate titles (ie, books on the England football/cricket team, etc etc). And the failure of these books to sell, is (according to head office) not the Scottish customer base, but the shop for not 'promoting' the books enough. And yet, they (the book-store) knows exactly what the 'locals' want to read and when they order those books, head office inevitably replies that this is not possible because the 'marketing team' did an audit of a shop in Devon (England- for the non UK) and that is what the General Public wishes to purchase...

I bring this up, because the majority of purchasers are habitual purchasers of the same authors. IE, they find a author they like, they will automatically buy any new book by that author regardless. They will only look at expanding into a new author if they have out read all their usual 'go-tos'. Which makes perfect sense, as that is how it works in other forms of media. "I love that band and can't wait for their new album", "Let's go see that new film as it has my favourite actor in it ..." etc, etc.

This fits in with my second paragraph, because the bookshop knows what authors are loved and when the shop knows a new novel is being released, say, the likes of Jilly Cooper, they will put an order in for X amount because they know X amount will sell. Head office takes that order, compares it to the metrics of a shop in another country, and goes "Nope, you can have a third of that amount and the rest of the shipment will be made up of books on the ins and outs of the financial crisis ..."

What blurbs excel at, is in trying to hook new readers to that author, and 'blurbs' do so by explaining what 'genre' the book is set in. Which can be achieved, pretty much, by a really good cover. Someone who only dabbles in the poo(l) of celebratory biographies, is very rarely interested in hard SciFi. It gives the reader a potential idea of what the story is about. Whether it's the struggles of a rancher in the Wild West, a space opera, a whodunnit, or police procedural. Most of which can be done by the cover (A picture of a wooden fence, some steers and a six shooter in a holster/ A space ship with a planet as a background/ A magnifying glass and some blood splatters/ a simple stretch of police tape). That role is normally taken up (here) by the inclusion of story codes, which Dead Tree Press do not have.

So once the blurb has set the scene (the when and the where, ie Georgia in 2010), it will then mention the protagonist and the driving force of the story (the 'hook')

Abbey is a single mother who is trying to juggle the lives of her two kids and her life as a medical pathologist when she receives several cadavers with disturbing similarities.

Reading that, you know there is going to be family drama, personal issues (She's a single mother) and the overriding plot is going to be whether or not there is a serial murderer on the go. No plot spoilers, but enough information to know whether or not the story may be of interest. If you only read sword and sorcery fantasy, then it's going to be a hard pass.

So basically, my point after all that, is that blurbs are a little superfluous here, because the majority of the blurb's job is actually done by the story codes (if marked correctly) and what you are really looking at doing, is explaining the codes a bit better in slightly greater detail. Like where the story is set, and within what time period. Not much else is needed, without broaching spoiler territory.

I should really have put,

It's Georgia in the winter of 2010. Abbey is a single mother who is trying to juggle the lives of her two kids, a disastrous dating scene and her life as a medical pathologist, when she receives several cadavers with disturbing similarities ...

I suppose it (blurbs) boils down to a simple, "Who, When, Where, and Why."

So basically, my point after all that, is that blurbs are a little superfluous here, because the majority of the blurb's job is actually done by the story codes

I read the description first. If it looks promising, then I'll check out the story codes for hidden nasties.

AJ

I read the description first. If it looks promising, then I'll check out the story codes for hidden nasties.

Ironically, I look for stories via the category search, and mostly ignore the blurbs because of how badly everyone (myself included) writes them. In fact, most of my received PM's start off with "I love this story! But I almost didn't read it because of the description ..." and equivalent.

Previous experience of an authors work influences my decision to read more of that authors content. For me, and I know this is not going to be applicable to many others, I would say that at least 80% of my decision to read a story is based on previous experience of that authors work, rather than the blurb of the story.

Abbey is a single mother who is trying to juggle the lives of her two kids and her life as a medical pathologist when she receives several cadavers with disturbing similarities.

Three points to mention about blurbs (that are in your example):
1. They are written in present tense no matter what tense the novel is written in.
2. They are written in 3rd-person no matter what POV the novel is written in.
3. The word "when" is often used in them.

There are classes out there on writing blurbs. One of the challenges with this site is the blurb is limited in both characters and paragraph breaks. So great blurbs get trimmed to be good or meh.

Blurbs need to be active voice. It's the equivalent of a movie trailer.

Blurbs need to be active voice. It's the equivalent of a movie trailer.

Have you seen movie trailers for the last few years? They tell you almost everything about a movie, to the point where it almost becomes pointless watching the actual movie.

So do most blurbs here. ;-)

Good trailers and blurbs get the viewer/reader to want to read the story. That's their whole purpose. If they aren't doing that, they're failing.

I think @Pixy's point is that movie trailers tell you too much, so there's no need to watch the movie.

IMO a good story blurb should tell you the principal conflict but not how it resolves.

AJ

Yes, that was @Pixy's point. Mine was that a lot of the blurbs here do the same thing. I don't need to read the story because the blurb tells me the whole story.

Mine was that a lot of the blurbs here do the same thing. I don't need to read the story because the blurb tells me the whole story.

Thank you. I misunderstood.

AJ

Mine was that a lot of the blurbs here do the same thing. I don't need to read the story because the blurb tells me the whole story.

To be fair, most stories here are porn stories and "Dad sleeps with daughter" or "Mother sleeps with son" is the whole story ...

Never noticed that till you mentioned it.

A good blurb provides context for the story codes.

Consider a story with a long list of tags, including M/F, M/M, and several tags that I usually avoid. The blurb says, "Dick and Jane meet and fall in love. They try everything." The M/M tag probably means there is some M/M in a threesome scene, while the M/F tag probably means there are many scenes between Dick and Jane. Similarly, many of the tags that I avoid probably indicate something that happens briefly in the story.

The same tags, but with a blurb, "Dick and Willy meet ..." probably means there is a lot of M/M action, and the M/F may only happen briefly in one scene.

Squicks: Snuff, Cannibalism, Sadism, Rape, M/M, Scat, Pedo, Bestiality, Zoophilia, Vampires

Thank you for those of you who have the imagination, and the patience, and take the time to write these stories.

That's the classic example of the unintended consequences of unconsidered layout. List the squicks that effect you, then follow it up with 'Thank you for those that write these stories ...' 😃 😜

I know I'm not the sharpest frog in the box but I thought that was intentional. Those stories (vampires etc) have their audience and the site would be poorer without them.

AJ

I know I'm not the sharpest frog in the box but I thought that was intentional

🤷‍♀️

🤷‍♀️

I know I'm not the quickest knife in the blender because I had to look up that emoji.

Which of us is supposed to be the woman?

AJ

Which of us is supposed to be the woman?

🤷‍♀️

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Sex Contents: Minimal Sex"

That's rather impossible with all those codes.

That's rather impossible with all those codes.

Are you kidding, with all those codes, who has time for sex? Youza!

For me, all I think is "Pick a damn story topic and stick with it, Wanker!".

Depends. Make it epic-length and I could easily put all of those into a story and still be 'minimal sex'.

Now you have me doing the exercise, so, if I pile up the volumes of my story, I get:

Nearly open and shut: Ma/Fa, mt/ft, ft/ft,Fa/Fa, Fa/ft, Ma/ft,mt/Fa, boy, girl, mult, teenagers, consensual, romantic, lesbian, bisexual, heterosexual, fiction, crime, humor, school, alternative history, do-over, sharing, light bond, spanking, rough, group sex, polygamy/polyamory, interracial, white male, white female, oriental female, indian female, white couple, anal sex, cream pie, first, facial, masturbation, oral sex, petting, safe sex, tit-fucking, small breasts, caution, geeks, politics, porn theater, slow, violence

Nuance, but these arguably fit: blackmail, coercion, nonconsensual, teen siren, celebrity, historical, rags to riches, tear jerker, science fiction, magic, incest, sister, cousins, harem, exhibitionism, menstrual play, public sex, Halloween

And I could still reasonably say 'Minimal Sex'

Which is why most of those aren't coded: they won't help people who like those tags find a story they like, and many of them are minimal enough that it's unlikely anyone will be upset by them turning up.

Mind you, I agree: too many codes! But it points out the juggling authors of longer stories may have to do in figuring out what to code.

And I'm currently at 638 chapters published, if my math is correct (5 books, with the 6th at chapter 19), so we have a huge disconnect there. For a short story, that would be a ridiculous number of codes.

For 638 chapters, it's still a ridiculous number of codes, because there's no way of interpreting what they mean in relation to the story. There's one 'Indian female' who is engaged in 'sex scenes' only in a small part of one book. On the other hand, the 'Oriental female' is a major character and has plenty of appearances, both sexual and non-sexual, in five of the six books. How can you tell the difference from the codes?

I could code each book, of course, but the point was that length of story creates a multitude of codes.

That's also why it would be beneficial to 'remove' tags after a story is completed, just to remove that sort of tag bloat. Unfortunately, that's not possible, so you'd have to ask Lazeez to do it for you, and even then, I'm not sure he'd allow it.

I think I've added a tag mid-publishing perhaps twice, if that. They are what they are.

On the other hand, and at Book 6, readers have a sense of what they're getting. Unless I'm going to take an abrupt turn, tags don't help.

Heck, 'Hispanic female' is not in that list, but one of my characters counts. There's no point in it being there, though. No one was going to read the relevant book just because I added a Hispanic female, and I don't think anyone read the book, found a girl whose father is from Venezuela, and said, "Uh oh. Not for me!"

I'm strongly in favor of proper tagging in general, but there are limits, and sometimes they don't help much at all.

She was. The pairing is Hispanic Female, Caucasian Male. A couple of encounters (on-page sex).

Ditto previously mentioned Indian Female, who paired with the same Caucasian Male in on-page sex a couple of times.

Mind you, over a 156-chapter book. Not likely to be of major import, but they're there.

I had Black Male, Caucasian Female, but nothing beyond kissing. Doesn't count. Actually, at least a few cases of that, one of which involved off-page shenanigans and one that definitely did not. So that doesn't count. I think :)

Speaking of tags which make you stop reading, anytime I see a 'racial' tag, like Hispanic, it's typically a warning of a racial stereotyping ("BBW" vs "black" or just "F"). I've seen that used too many times, so I avoid ANY story with one or two racial tags. In my case, if I have a character, I treat them as a character, regardless of their background, since I don't want to attract readers, expecting those stereotypes, to get pissed when it's not there. And not labeling those minor details has never hurt my stories.

Yet, as Grey Wolf notes, in a multi-million-word story, you get quite a few, variations.

I had Oriental Female set for Books 2, 3, and 4, along with a bunch of other sex-related tags that are no longer there. I'm not sure it's worth dropping them, but I'm also fairly certain they don't add value.

I agree that characters need to just be characters. Ethnicity matters, but the tags really are more about 'fetishizing,' I think, not just simple information sharing. But that's part of the problem with tags: is it a plus that I have an Asian woman who is unabashedly ethnically Asian, but isn't culturally Asian and whose appearance is acknowledged, not fetishized? Or is it a minus? Is it neutral? For me, it just adds something to the character and her background, but I didn't add her because of wanting a 'hot Asian babe,' just because it's a (very unevenly distributed, relative to regional demography, but still) ethnically diverse school and an Asian character made sense (one of several, though most aren't primary or even notably secondary).

Also, your example confused me - not sure if it was intentional or not. BBW is Big Beautiful Woman and has nothing to do with ethnicity/race.

Ethnically, yes. Typo - will edit (but leaving the comment so it's clear why I edited :))

Sorry, after being here for so long, I rarely doublecheck any codes anymore, unless it affects a story I'm posting, when I have a reason to confirm my assumptions.

Thanks for printout out the distinction, as I rarely feature larger (i.e. 'huskier') women, as where I grew up (more or less the East Coast of America), most of the people I knew were active and thus exceptionally thin. Not all, but close enough, as even the huskier ones were physically fit, so I never saw them that way.

"BBW" pretty universally implies "Big Black Woman"

BBW stands for Big Beautiful Woman.

It's a positive term for an overweight woman.

On the other hand, and at Book 6, readers have a sense of what they're getting.

SPOILER ALERT!

I'm not so sure. In Book 6, Steve Marshall gets angry. That shocked me.

AJ

Not the first time. It has happened before :)

to 'remove' tags after a story is completed, … Unfortunately, that's not possible, so you'd have to ask Lazeez to do it for you

It is possible. I've added a story tag when a new one was created that applied to my completed story. So you can delete them too.

Go to Authors/Editors then Manage Stories, then click on the story title, and then click on Tags (where the editing pencil is next to it).

The main reason for removing existing tags, is that while it's helpful noting a new story element, afterwards, in the grand scheme of the whole story, such minor notification don't add much to the story. So, if there's minor reference to a single non-descriptive rape—which is only discussed—you really need to consider whether it adds anything, or just invites additional criticism.

Rape, in particular, is a tough one. It is a trigger for some people and can be even without description. Some other things are, too.

I'm mostly just using 'caution'. Anyone who is worried about triggers is always free to write and ask in advance. The flip side of trigger warnings is a loss of surprise. If 'rape' is in the tags, a rape is coming. It's the downside of Chekov's Gun: if the gun must be fired, the audience is now busily trying to figure out why and when, potentially distracting them from the rest of the story.

I have that for a traumatic event in Book 1 that needs to be telegraphed enough to be plausible but should not be telegraphed enough that the MC should have been anticipating it - yet he's the first person narrator. He has to be able to describe details he's not consciously registering as warning flags.

If I had to tag it with a tag for the ensuing crisis, readers would pick about the signals and be screaming at him 'Do something! Something bad is coming! and complaining about the lack of insight. Which, of course, is his own 20/20 hindsight reaction, but that's the point. The tag's information is detrimental to the reading experience.

'Caution' is a much preferable alternative, in my opinion - but only for authors who are willing to engage and respond to questions. If they're not, and it's a common trigger, tag it.

Ma/Fa, Fa/Fa, Ma, Fa

Okay, is Ma/Fa a male and female in a sexual situation while Ma and Fa are simply a male and female in the story (nothing to do with sex)?

If not, when would you have the Ma or Fa code?

The story tag list is a bit vague, but perhaps it would be masturbation? But it could also just be that there's a male adult or a female adult somewhere in the story.

Sometimes the tags are a bit (or a lot) vague. This feels like one of those cases.

A no-sex story has no reason to use any of the gender/age tags.

It would be interesting to get Lazeez's take on that. My feeling is that, in a no sex story, they would indicate relationships — consensual or otherwise. That's certainly the way I'd use them, and the way I frequently see them used.

I see it as ambiguous, with both interpretations making sense. For a no-sex story, it still matters to the reader if the relationships are Fa/Fa, Ma/Fa, or Ma/Ma, or if it's Ma or Fa and there's no relationship, and so forth.

But that's hardly the only ambiguity in the tags. 'Blackmail' explicitly references 'sex act', so non-sexual blackmail shouldn't get the 'blackmail' tag. Many other things in that section reference 'sex' or 'act', so one presumes the same. But 'NonConsensual' is not worded to include either. Is its inclusion in the same section reason enough to assume it's only 'sex', or is blackmailing someone non-sexually 'NonConsensual'? I would say no, but ... ambiguity :) It gets more ambiguous since 'slavery' is in that section, and it specifically includes slavery 'otherwise' (non-sexual, in other words).

I think the real answer is that the tag system was developed for short, largely sexual stories (and significantly predates SoL as a concept). Very little of it has been comprehensively rethought along the way, nor is how it applies to longer stories clear, especially as the amount of sex in the story drops proportional to the non-sex content.

And that's fairly intractible. The notion of recoding the existing SoL corpus is ridiculous, and any major rethinking of the tags would result in edge-case stories being mistagged left and right.

My feeling is that, in a no sex story, they would indicate relationships — consensual or otherwise.

Ah, but a no sex story about a coach who is a father figure to his young player would be Ma/mt. I bet many people exclude stories with that tag. That's a case for standalone Ma and mt tags (without the / connecting them). Assuming the / implies a sexual relationship.

While we're on the topic, why does the "fiction" tag exist? Unless the "true" tag is there, it's fiction. And this guy even has both "Science Fiction" and "Fiction."

Now someone can make the same fiction argument for the "consensual" tag. That is, if there is no "non-consent" tag then it's consensual, so who needs the "consensual" tag? It's not the same argument as fiction. With fiction, it's either fiction or true. But you may have "non-consent" in the story AND consensual sex. If you don't include the tag for the latter, the reader will think it's all non-consual.

Ah, but a no sex story about a coach who is a father figure to his young player would be Ma/mt. I bet many people exclude stories with that tag. That's a case for standalone Ma and mt tags (without the / connecting them). Assuming the / implies a sexual relationship.

You could do that, I suppose, but I feel it would ridiculously misleading. Personally, I'd reserve it for romantic or other relationships that might be expected to turn sexual.

For instance, if you have story with a description that says:

"Chris had finally found the loves of his life. Now they all needed to settle down and build a life together. This is a romance, but there's no explicit sex."

So it's coded No Sex, and you don't add any relationship/gender codes. I imagine a lot of people are going to be (justifiably) pissed off when it turns out that the loves of his life are his father and his son. Plenty of romance, some kissing and the implication of sex, but no actual sex scenes.

I have an interest here, as I'm continuing to work on a sequel for Protective Coloration and Charley and Claire. Those who've read the first of the stories will be expecting a M/M relationship, but I have no desire to write an explicit gay sex scene. Happy enough to show the guys holding hands and kissing, but probably no more than that. Still, yeah, I'm going to code it for them, given the number of people who still seem to freak out about M/M affection.

So it's coded No Sex, and you don't add any relationship/gender codes. I imagine a lot of people are going to be (justifiably) pissed off when it turns out that the loves of his life are his father and his son.

Two points about your comment.

1. I believe the tags were created for sex stories and trying to use them for anything else is a problem.

2. I believe the tags were created to identify squicks. I personally use them to find stories, but I don't believe that's what their intention was when created. It was to warn people about the sexual content of the story so they could avoid the story. So even a tiny incident in a story that was squick-worthy needed to be tagged.

1. I believe the tags were created for sex stories and trying to use them for anything else is a problem.

Finestories agrees with you.

AJ

2. I believe the tags were created to identify squicks. I personally use them to find stories, but I don't believe that's what their intention was when created. It was to warn people about the sexual content of the story so they could avoid the story. So even a tiny incident in a story that was squick-worthy needed to be tagged.

I use them for both, but I agree with you about tagging for squicks. I don't really know if they were created for that purpose, but, as long as they're used, they do a decent job.

I agree with both. The use has expanded into non-sex or 'sex secondary' stories, but they're awkward. On the other hand, I think they're still 'required', but should be used thoughtfully.

On the second point, I feel nearly certain that I remember them first being referred to as 'squick tags', long before SoL even existed. And I still think that's an important use. But that, too, changes with long stories. A short story with a rape can be tagged 'rape' - there's little suspense in their being a rape in there somewhere, comparatively speaking. A novel with a rape (even a very prominent one) is just as squicky, but the author can reasonably want it to be a surprise, not have the reader going 'Oh, my goodness, is this where she gets raped? Here? Maybe here? Now? When?! Get on with it already!!!'

Hence, 'caution' along with authors who will respond to a question about what warrants 'caution'.

I could also see a case being made for 'hidden tags'. Code a story with all of the squick tags, but have them hidden. A reader could put in 'rape' as their squick and get a 'Warning, do not go here!' message on the affected story, while other readers would simply see 'Here's a story with caution'.

But that's complicated and I imagine people would do the wrong thing and then get upset.

On the second point, I feel nearly certain that I remember them first being referred to as 'squick tags', long before SoL even existed.

I remember 'hot codes', I think, from ASS and ASSM. Of course, they couldn't be enforced, but there was a list of codes that you were expected to use if they applied to any part of the story. I don't remember all of them, but they included any male/male sex, the BDSM codes, necrophilia, beastiality and pedophilia at the least. Probably rape as well. I don't know if the tags were originally for squeaks, though, as, by the time I got there, a lot of the coding was to attract an audience instead of warning people away.

"slash"

In the UK, 'slash' is slang for male urination.

Guy in pub: "Look after my beer. I'm going for a slash."

AJ

I agree with the first point in theory. In practice, I'm not sure if it wouldn't just add more coding work without really adding much light to the situation. If one had 'incidental' tags, there would probably be additional pressure to use them, which might look like overtagging to everyone else.

The second point is also true, and why I severely undertag a lot of common things for what is a very long story. Tagging it 'properly' would result in a lot of noise that would do little to really guide anyone of anything.

The synopsis tends to be a lot more interesting, really.