Forum: Author Hangout

Access to old or removed stories. Your thoughts - what's the protocol?

Kanga 🚫

I have been an SOL member for twenty years, and a few other sites a bit longer. I've always been a reader or editor, never an author here.
I have on my hard disks, hundreds of stories I have edited. I am NOT talking about stories I have downloaded to read. Many of the authors have been inactive for quite a while, having now defunct websites and dead email addresses. A couple of those authors have removed their story or stories from SOL.
My question stems from seeing a request in the 'Lost Stories' forum for a story no longer online at SOL or anywhere else I can find. I have over 10Mb of marked-up and fully edited files for this particular story. The author's website is now non-existant and both his email addresses are dead. It was a long, popular at the time (2009/2010) story and rated over 8 on SOL.
My inclination is to share the story with the member, but I am interested to see the views of SOL authors on this topic.

Replies: Paladin_HGWT JimWar

Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@Kanga

I strongly believe that Stories are Supposed to be Read! Unless the author made some kind of definitive statement against it remaining in the public domain.

I hope that the Stories I write remain in multiple formats of publication long after I am gone.

Otherwise, we are just lost, like tears in the rain.

It would be different if you were going to claim them as your own works, and profit from them.

After all, it seems that some of this material was posted to sites the author should have presumed would remain indefinitely.

I consider this more like recovery of stories. If the SOL server crashed, I would hope that all the material could be put back up, from back-ups. In particular those stories from authors no longer with us.

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@Paladin_HGWT

I'll say it depends on why it was removed from SOL. If it was removed for a rules violation, that's one thing.

If it was removed at the author's request, and it isn't available for free anywhere else, I would consider that to be in itself "some kind of definitive statement against it remaining in the public domain", and that ought to be respected.

Replies: Keet helmut_meukel

Keet 🚫

@Dominions Son

If it was removed at the author's request, and it isn't available for free anywhere else, I would consider that to be in itself "some kind of definitive statement against it remaining in the public domain", and that ought to be respected.

Respected, yes, maybe. But I don't think you can (legally) remove a story from the public domain, at least not the version that is public. You can try to make availability as difficult as possible but we all know that once it's on the net you can never completely get it off again.
Removal by author's request is a request for removal from SOL. That doesn't mean the intention is to make it unavailable from everywhere else. Personally I feel that what was once shared freely and publicly can never be revoked.

Replies: Dominions Son Switch Blayde

Dominions Son 🚫

@Keet

Respected, yes, maybe. But I don't think you can (legally) remove a story from the public domain, at least not the version that is public.

Simply making it available for free on a site like SOL does not in anyway make it public domain from a copyright law perspective.

Under US copyright law there are only two ways for a work to become public domain.

1. Expired copyright.
2. An explicit written statement from the author/copyright owner donating the work to the public domain.

Replies: Keet

Keet 🚫

@Dominions Son

Simply making it available for free on a site like SOL does not in anyway make it public domain from a copyright law perspective.

That I agree with but I was pointing at part of your comment

...I would consider that to be in itself "some kind of definitive statement against it remaining in the public domain", and ...

where "remaining in the public domain" indicated the work is in the public domain.

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@Keet

That I agree with but I was pointing at part of your comment

Which is an exact quote from the OP.

Replies: Keet

Keet 🚫

@Dominions Son

Which is an exact quote from the OP.

Uh, no, it was your response to Paladin_HGWT:

I'll say it depends on why it was removed from SOL. If it was removed for a rules violation, that's one thing.

If it was removed at the author's request, and it isn't available for free anywhere else, I would consider that to be in itself "some kind of definitive statement against it remaining in the public domain", and that ought to be respected.

The OP didn't mention 'public domain'.

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@Keet

Uh, no, it was your response to Paladin_HGWT:

You are right, not the OP.

"some kind of definitive statement against it remaining in the public domain"
Was a direct copy and paste quote from Paladin_HGWT's comment.

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Keet

But I don't think you can (legally) remove a story from the public domain

I didn't understand these stories to be in public domain.

Replies: REP

REP 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I agree. A copyrighted story is owned by the author and therefore not in the public domain.

Many people believe the author making the story available to the public places the story 'in the public domain', but that is not true.

The definition of 'public domain' defines public domain items that are not subject to copyright.

helmut_meukel 🚫

@Dominions Son

If it was removed at the author's request, and it isn't available for free anywhere else, I would consider that to be in itself "some kind of definitive statement against it remaining in the public domain", and that ought to be respected.

I faintly remember older stories in text format starting with something like:
"This story can freely copied and distributed as long as the author's name and this paragraph remains unchanged and it's distributed free of charge."

While still copyrighted, the author could not revoke this right to copy and distribute the story free of charge.

HM.

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@helmut_meukel

I faintly remember older stories in text format starting with something like:
"This story can freely copied and distributed as long as the author's name and this paragraph remains unchanged and it's distributed free of charge."

As far as I know, no stories have ever been on SOL with that license(that's what it effectively is, a copyright license).

And your right to further distribute the story would be dependent on actually having a copy with that license attached to it.

Replies: helmut_meukel

helmut_meukel 🚫

@Dominions Son

As far as I know, no stories have ever been on SOL with that license

I thought SOL was always HTML, so my mention of "stories in text format" implicated they were not on SOL.

HM.

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@helmut_meukel

I thought SOL was always HTML, so my mention of "stories in text format" implicated they were not on SOL.

The entire thread is about stories removed from SOL.

JimWar 🚫

@Kanga

I believe if you download a story it is the same as if you are given a book or bought a book. You cannot republish a book you are given but you can give your copy to someone. So to me if someone asks if anyone has a copy of a story that is no longer published or is not available on site I see no reason not to pass the story on. Just the same as an author or publisher of a printed book has no control of a book after it is sold, so an author or publisher of a digital book has no control over one once it is published.

Replies: helmut_meukel Dominions Son

helmut_meukel 🚫

@JimWar

Just the same as an author or publisher of a printed book has no control of a book after it is sold, so an author or publisher of a digital book has no control over one once it is published.

Sorry, but there is a significant difference:
When I sell it or give it away for free, I do no longer have the printed book, but when I do this with a digital book, I still have the original book and have illegally created an additional copy (similar to sharing a printed book by photocopying it).

Giving away a digital book is only then comparable to giving away a printed book when you delete your copy from your system(s) after passing it on.

HM.

Dominions Son 🚫

@JimWar

Unless you delete your local copy when you pass it on, passing on an electronic copy is closer to republishing a book than giving your copy of a physical book to someone else.

If you have a physical book and you give it to someone else, then you no longer have the book.

Replies: Pixy

Pixy 🚫

@Dominions Son

If you have a physical book and you give it to someone else, then you no longer have the book

Unless, of course, if you are autistic, or just have a very good memory... 😛

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Forum: Author Hangout

Access to old or removed stories. Your thoughts - what's the protocol?

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