Forum: Author Hangout

I thought it was some years ago Lazeez said not for the foreseeable future. Anyway it's his site and he doesn't need to engage or do anything. But the reason it's an emotive subject is the negative voting isn't it? And the reason the current system came about was discussion. And now the trend among all the mega successful social media sites is to have follows, likes and comments, as that's what content providers like. Tiktok didn't exist in 2014.

And at the moment, the particular trigger for this thread, I seem to have someone going through all my stories voting them 1, which isn't good for anyone.

I don't believe SOL is intended to be a social media site. It's more like a shopping site, where visitors expect the products to have objective rankings.

AJ

Well it's a media site where people post content and get encouraged or deterred by feedback. And sure visitors are guided by the feedback, but does the weighted average do this better than likes and follows? To a point where the secrecy is worth it?

To a point where the secrecy is worth it?

Opacity is not the best way to build trust.

AJ

Never would not be realistic would it, on the Internet in this millennium. And indeed the system did get changed, as Lazeez tried to tune out our many tearful complaints 😢.

This is saying nothing makes any difference, which is not the case is it. One person complaining is not the same as 100 people complaining.

Anyway if Lazeez said 'never', long enough ago for you not to be quite sure :), then it's unlikely he really has that as a rule all these years later, when he's running a website. Any active site has developed since then.

And my point is about negative voting, which does seem to be the source of complaint more than anything. So if that option were removed, what would the complaints be?

'Just about anything' isn't an answer to the question is it. The current system was paved with good intentions but, because of complaints mainly about negative voting, as you have eloquently demonstrated in this thread, yes has been changed and changed, evolving into one where we don't even get told about a vote! Because we tend to get upset about them, if they're negative.

Lazeez does not need defending from me, it's his site and I totally respect that, he can read and do what he likes of course. I am not pointing any fingers, just communicating, that an alternative to hiding votes from us is not to have any negative votes.

Okay well why? :) It's a way of testing the general mood and putting out something he can simply not read if he doesn't want to. I was just getting the impression you're defending him because of these vague objections.

And the discussion I think is demonstrating it can be a tricky subject to think clearly about, there are different angles to it.

And at the moment, the particular trigger for this thread, I seem to have someone going through all my stories voting them 1, which isn't good for anyone.

If it bothers you that much, your option is to turn voting off.

That's the copout option. The option I'm taking is to communicate about it, is all. It's an example of the 1-10 scale not working as a guide for readers to pick stories.

As soon as you have a downvote available, it's free power for anyone, to be used or misused.

Most sites these days seem to have decided that if they want content, the best thing is not to have a negative option on offer. There can still be meaningful feedback with the number of likes and follows, and comments.

Okay well I recently had a generous comment from a fellow writer who'd been surprised to enjoy my lowly 6.4 story. It's still only on 6.45, because two young white sisters get gangbanged by Africans. It's what the girls want, they are 100% in control, but some readers can't help reading what's in their heads instead of the words on the page.

Yes the system drops the top and bottom 5%, but once they are filled as it were, the next lowest kicks in so once you have a few hundred votes it ceases to have any real effect.

And yes feedback is valuable, absolutely agree, I'm just floating a system in which I can get told about a vote 🙂

I am not trying to say that there aren't stories below 7.5 that I would read, given a chance. I am saying that with the amount of stories available on the whole of the internet you have to have some way to control the amount of material you read or you will be doing nothing but. I spend as much time reading as I can afford to.

Yes absolutely, I'm just suggesting that the count of Likes and Follows can be if anything a better guide.

In my example, you're left looking at an average rating of 6.45, which could be lots of 6's and 7's, or it could be a mix of 1's and 10's - a different proposition.

With only Likes, you'd get whatever number of them, and then tags, to steer yout choice.

usually if I finish a story it gets a 6 to 8

Which is rather ironic, as given the aggregate scoring system, your score would equate (even the eight) to a score less than 7.5. Which by your own admission

and don't read stories scoring less than 7.5

would help place a story you enjoyed, into a category you and many others wouldn't touch...

It's like you are constraining yourself to some form of literary masochism, and is, to quote a fictional character "beyond logical".

Well, if I had known what my grade say a '6' would be on any story before I read it then I most likely would not have read it in the first place...but since I have no better indication of the quality of the story than the crowd sourced score I read it and then give my opinion. There are also stories that start off weak and finish strong and that is why I am an advocate of not scoring a story until it is finished. There are also exceptions. If I see a story without a score from an author I really admire I don't not read it because it doesn't have a score yet. Also conversely, if there are stories that are 8 and 9 that show codes that indicate areas of sexual or other fetishes that I don't support then I usually don't read them.

It's all stupid, imo. Like or dislike, I agree, is how it should be. But no matter what, we'll always have those who enjoy 1 blasting everything while hiding behind the keyboard.
It'd be nice to understand WHY something was scored so low. Oh well....

Oh, there are many reasons.

Many want to see specific things. Abuse, scat, and all kinds of things like that. And will downvote if a story description includes their specific kink, but the story does not revolve around it.

I often have fun experimenting in my writing, and found my "Dark Tales" (which normally do not have happy endings - hence the name) often get much lower scores than others. Which I find funny, as they should know just by reading what series it is a part of what to expect.

Myself, to be honest I largely gave up long ago worrying about what the scores are. And with the strange system now, it is kinda like Who's Line Is It Anyways".

I simply write to write, and to be honest primarily for myself. I am glad that others enjoy them, but ultimately I write for myself.

And I have seen some that absolutely puzzle me, to be honest. A slew of stories with almost no words, just some almost disconnected sentences scattered between photos.

I just tell people to not worry about the scores. Write for yourself, you will never make everybody happy so should never try.

Someone down voting a story because they were squicked by something even if they were properly warned it would be there.

Oh tell me about it!

I have an entire series called "Dark Tales", and there are plentiful warnings that they normally do NOT have happy endings. And I am constantly getting blasted for them.

Hell, the title of the anthology itself should be a big clue, and I commonly get comments by others they hated them. Well, maybe if one wants a "happy ending", they should not read something that is stated to be a "dark tale".

Would be like going to see a Stephen King movie, and upset it was not a light Adam Sandler comedy.

Or going to see a murder mystery and complaining that it's not a fantasy epic.

Like the reviewer at Podunk Review of Books ;-)

AJ

That's a good attitude to have, if you can. For me, the reason I publish stories, having written them, is to have some people enjoy them, and in that to have a little achievement.

So the feedback matters to me. I don't mind my weaker stories scoring lower, that's how it ought to be.

But broadly speaking the positive votes are genuinely about the story, whereas the negatives sometimes are, and sometimes aren't. And then it all gets averaged.

So the feedback matters to me. I don't mind my weaker stories scoring lower, that's how it ought to be.

But broadly speaking the positive votes are genuinely about the story, whereas the negatives sometimes are, and sometimes aren't. And then it all gets averaged.

I rely much more on comments to be honest. That tells me what people really think of the story, especially my longer form ones.

That's a good attitude to have, if you can. For me, the reason I publish stories, having written them, is to have some people enjoy them, and in that to have a little achievement.

So the feedback matters to me. I don't mind my weaker stories scoring lower, that's how it ought to be.

But broadly speaking the positive votes are genuinely about the story, whereas the negatives sometimes are, and sometimes aren't. And then it all gets averaged.

I love to read, but have a limited budget. I appreciate people who Write and provide us Content. Many, perhaps most of the content posted here is not to my taste, but I don't down vote those stories. Mostly, I don't read them, Mostly.

I enjoy sex, and I enjoy well written depictions of sex. I prefer that If there is sex in the story, that it either develops the characters, advances the Plot; or Both. But I am here for stories about history, action, war, intrigue, human interaction, mystery, Sci-Fi or Fantasy, "coming of age" or even "Do Overs" whatever, and I know many of these stories are written by amateurs. Amateurs who have gained talent, experience, and opportunities to improve due to constructive feedback!

When I "downvote" a story it is because the writer just doesn't seem to care that they have significant issues with spelling and grammar, or the "snuck" in some squick of mine, without using a Tag. I understand that sometimes an author want a Surprise in the story, so, a hint such as "Dark Tales" or even "Some Tags Omitted" may be okay.

For instance, I could see omitting the Tag: Crossdressing, if a plot point of a character being a Crossdresser comes out as a surprise, say after they are murdered, wounded, or in some way outed. Previously the character may have had sex "behind doors" but the reader is "not aware of it" (though there might be some "hints" earlier in the story.

I would not be happy if the Tag is omitted and there is blatantly depicted sex or whatever in the story. The writer only omitted the Tag because they wanted more people to start reading their story.

A grey area would be in a story with a lot of characters, and one of them wears a dress, on occasion; but it is Not a major Plot Point. Example: M+A+S+H the TV series, Corporal Klinger would sometimes wear dresses in a forlorn effort to get a "Section-8 Discharge" out of Korea and the US Army. There is no sex involved (and the Crossdressing Tag is mostly related to a "Sexual Kink" not a female character wearing "Her Man's shirt" or a Tomboy wearing a football jersey while playing "sandlot" sports with "the Guys") Klinger wearing women's clothes was mostly for humor "Part of the overall Craziness" and the Focus was: "I gotta get Outta This Place!" Never that he actually felt he was a woman. In later seasons it was dropped because the Character realized it wasn't working; and clearly the "joke" was worn out."

Anyway, good attitude, and one I share. I am mostly posting my stories here to Get Feedback because it is one of the best ways to improve my writing.

That's a good attitude to have, if you can. For me, the reason I publish stories, having written them, is to have some people enjoy them, and in that to have a little achievement.

So the feedback matters to me. I don't mind my weaker stories scoring lower, that's how it ought to be.

But broadly speaking the positive votes are genuinely about the story, whereas the negatives sometimes are, and sometimes aren't. And then it all gets averaged.

I love to read, but have a limited budget. I appreciate people who Write and provide us Content. Many, perhaps most of the content posted here is not to my taste, but I don't down vote those stories. Mostly, I don't read them, Mostly.

I enjoy sex, and I enjoy well written depictions of sex. I prefer that If there is sex in the story, that it either develops the characters, advances the Plot; or Both. But I am here for stories about history, action, war, intrigue, human interaction, mystery, Sci-Fi or Fantasy, "coming of age" or even "Do Overs" whatever, and I know many of these stories are written by amateurs. Amateurs who have gained talent, experience, and opportunities to improve due to constructive feedback!

When I "downvote" a story it is because the writer just doesn't seem to care that they have significant issues with spelling and grammar, or the "snuck" in some squick of mine, without using a Tag. I understand that sometimes an author want a Surprise in the story, so, a hint such as "Dark Tales" or even "Some Tags Omitted" may be okay.

For instance, I could see omitting the Tag: Crossdressing, if a plot point of a character being a Crossdresser comes out as a surprise, say after they are murdered, wounded, or in some way outed. Previously the character may have had sex "behind doors" but the reader is "not aware of it" (though there might be some "hints" earlier in the story.

I would not be happy if the Tag is omitted and there is blatantly depicted sex or whatever in the story. The writer only omitted the Tag because they wanted more people to start reading their story.

A grey area would be in a story with a lot of characters, and one of them wears a dress, on occasion; but it is Not a major Plot Point. Example: M+A+S+H the TV series, Corporal Klinger would sometimes wear dresses in a forlorn effort to get a "Section-8 Discharge" out of Korea and the US Army. There is no sex involved (and the Crossdressing Tag is mostly related to a "Sexual Kink" not a female character wearing "Her Man's shirt" or a Tomboy wearing a football jersey while playing "sandlot" sports with "the Guys") Klinger wearing women's clothes was mostly for humor "Part of the overall Craziness" and the Focus was: "I gotta get Outta This Place!" Never that he actually felt he was a woman. In later seasons it was dropped because the Character realized it wasn't working; and clearly the "joke" was worn out."

Anyway, good attitude, and one I share. I am mostly posting my stories here to Get Feedback because it is one of the best ways to improve my writing.

Klinger wearing women's clothes was mostly for humor "Part of the overall Craziness"

It was also a reference to Lenny Bruce, who was discharged from the Navy in 1945 for wearing women's clothing.

I must admit I hesitated, and did a search before I started the thread. But nobody's being forced to participate are they? It's an emotive subject, for a reason. Lazeez can read it, not read it, do something, let it gel, whatever. Writers can join in, or not. Why did you join in?

Nah. Must be spread on toast and chewed slowly. In time, it'll become soil.

Yes the system broadly works, for sure.