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Historical betting odds?

Grey Wolf ๐Ÿšซ

Does anyone have good resources for historical betting odds (specifically, 1983 NCAA Tournament)? I've had good luck with many previous events, but that one's giving me fits. I imagine the odds would be significant if one knew the winner as the Final Four started (obviously that's a plot point, and already in development).

If not, I have a fallback guess written (which is likely low, but plausible and works for the story).

This is likely to come up again, though less frequently as my story slowly de-emphasizes sports betting in favor of other opportunities.

Remus2 ๐Ÿšซ

@Grey Wolf

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2020-05-18/1983-ncaa-tournament-bracket-scores-stats-records?utm_campaign=links-bundle-asset

That's the NCAA history for 1983. As for betting odds, couldn't find hide nor hair of it.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Grey Wolf

For odds, each betting organization would probably generate it's own odds, and they won't all agree.

Your best bet is to check Los Vegas newspaper archives. They might have articles/features mentioning betting odds.

Replies:   DBActive
DBActive ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Dominions Son

Doesn't have to be Vegas. Almost every paper in the country would carry at least the point spread. The final games it was Houston giving 7.5.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@DBActive

Almost every paper in the country would carry at least the point spread.

I'm not sure that's the same thing as what the OP is asking for.

Replies:   DBActive
DBActive ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Dominions Son

I'm not really sure what the OP wants. There was probably some small pre-tournament action on an overall tournament winner, but in 1983 it wasn't the "March Madness" we see today. That only happened after the expansion to 64 teams. The selection show only began the year before.

I doubt if there was a published line on just the Final Four winner, although I am sure you could get a bookmaker to price it for you. I've never noticed a published line for that in 40 years, but I never looked for it either.

I suspect the best place to get all the betting information on the game would probably be USA Today if their archives are available easily. It's always covered the tournament heavily.

Another option might be to call Caeser's and ask them if they can help. I bet they have a record of every line they've ever put out.

Grey Wolf ๐Ÿšซ

@Grey Wolf

It's very easy to find history, and it's not hard to find a point spread for even-odds betting. The question is the return on e.g. betting NC State given the Final Four as it was (which is absolutely a bet a bookmaker would take). That's going to be some multiplier, obviously, not just a flat double-your-money if NC State wins (vs, say, Houston). Once you get down to the two, it might be double-your-money on an against-the-spread bet.

Ironically, it wasn't hard at all to find odds for 1982, back when I was writing that, but 1983 is a black hole. Not sure why. Sadly, my browser history doesn't go back that far and I'm not sure where I found it, now.

I can see if I can get a look at USA Today's archives.

Replies:   Dominions Son  Remus2
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Grey Wolf

It's very easy to find history, and it's not hard to find a point spread for even-odds betting. The question is the return on e.g. betting NC State given the Final Four as it was (which is absolutely a bet a bookmaker would take). That's going to be some multiplier, obviously, not just a flat double-your-money if NC State wins (vs, say, Houston).

The odds define your return. if it's not flat double-your-money, it's not even odds.

Replies:   Grey Wolf
Grey Wolf ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

Right - that was my point. I can find even-odds point-spread data for the finals. I now have data for the entire tournament in 1983 (thanks, StarFleetCarl!). Still nothing on simply betting the Final Four.

Remus2 ๐Ÿšซ

@Grey Wolf

I rarely watch sporting events, much less bet on them. But I find it hard to believe the data disappeared. Especially with the large advertising effort for online betting.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Remus2

large advertising effort for online betting.

Large advertising effort for online betting in 1983?

Replies:   Remus2
Remus2 ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

No, the current advertising efforts. It may have been 83, but it's still a data point for odds purposes.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Remus2

It may have been 83, but it's still a data point for odds purposes.

The OP is looking for the actual historical odds for 1983. He's not looking for data to fake plausible odds.

LupusDei ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Grey Wolf

Well, if the actual data appears to be near impossible to find or verify easily, faking it with an educated guess should be rather safe thing to do even in otherwise accurate historical setting where the bett is fair luck. Perhaps a fictional booking company could be used as additional level of protection against that rare, but likely inevitable reader who happens to have the actual data on hand and bitchiness to pull it out.

However... if I read the implied context right and we're talking about a do-over or time travel, the accurate sporting event results, and likely the odds issued as well are on a level of complexity and volatility I would consider involving true randomness and not likely reliable, especially long term. Since you're saying you're drifting away from that as easy income source anyway, consider the imperfect -- changed -- odds as subtle hint of timeline splitting. Of course, the problem then can be the supposedly prescient bettor's inability to recall the precise odds for comparison, but apparently he does win the bett anyway even if the actuall odds may not seem quite right to him at first.

Edit: I mean, something like:

"I went to booking to make the bett, but stumbled a bit seeing the odds. I didn't recognize the actual numbers even though the order was right. I tried, but couldn't recall those either, so maybe it was just my memory playing tricks. Or maybe, are things like that starting to change already?"

StarFleet Carl ๐Ÿšซ

@Grey Wolf

1983 NCAA Tournament

NC State 25-1 odds before the start of the tournament.

Biggest Longshots To Win NCAA Tournament - Since Seeding Began In 1979

https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/33510537/men-ncaa-tournament-betting-notes-why-5-12-favors-favorites

Replies:   DBActive
DBActive ๐Ÿšซ

@StarFleet Carl

I read the link. I find it hard to believe that State was only 25-1 pre-tournament.

Replies:   StarFleet Carl
StarFleet Carl ๐Ÿšซ

@DBActive

I find it hard to believe

Well, go ahead and find it hard to believe. I'm not making this up, and I doubt the ESPN writer did, either. Keep in mind, there were only 52 teams in 1983, and NC State was the #6 Seed in the West. They'd just come off of winning three in a row with the ACC, so they were hot. Were they underdogs? Sure. But they at least had a chance - and took it.

JimWar ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Grey Wolf

I think it depends on when your character makes his bet and also will be influenced by where the bet is made. Although NC State was a 1-25 long shot expected to lose the 48 team tournament, Houston was the local favorite (in your story) as well as the overall #1 seed, if I recall correctly. NC State was seeded 6th in the West regional. Knowing that bookies have to cover their bets with opposing bets and that the local Houston bookie would be hard pressed to find people betting against Houston, I would say you could have the bookie giving Steve greater odds than 25-1 if he bet early and the other thing if he picked, before the tournament started for NC State to be playing Houston the odds would be much greater for both teams reaching the final two teams than the odds for either team to win. I watched that game and even the announcers seemed to have a forgone conclusion not only that Houston would win, but that they would win big and beat the 7 point spread. Jim Valvano coached the best game of the tournament and soon after that game the rules were changed on fouling to give two shots for intentional fouls. Great game for an ACC fan.

Replies:   Grey Wolf
Grey Wolf ๐Ÿšซ

@JimWar

Agree. The flip side is that my MC is reluctant to place large bets on the full tournament bracket, partly because he's somewhere between sloppy/lazy/whatever enough that he doesn't place a lot of random bets on things he doesn't know. If he put down a ton on NC State early, following all the other successful bets, it'd be a bigger deal than a semi-random bracket with bets all over the place (but NC State slightly favored) and a Final Four bet with everything on NC State. Basically a 'I thought they'd get hot, and they got hot, so let's go with it'.

The payoff is lower, but the risk of disaster is also lower.

If he'd just go place a bunch of moderate-sized bets on things he doesn't know ...

Sigh.

Characters. They do what they want, sometimes.

akarge ๐Ÿšซ

@Grey Wolf

You might call/contact one of the big sports books in Vegas/Reno/Atlantic city. They might have someone that can get you that info.

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