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Do Over Stories

red61544 🚫

I'd like to start a discussion on what is your favorite do over story. I don't want to know what the story is about, just why you like it more than other do overs. Mine definitely is "Once More With Feelings" by The Night Hawk. https://storiesonline.net/s/41504/once-more-with-feelings

There are several reasons why it's my favorite. First, the entire premise is unusual. They don't come back as themselves, but they do get a chance to know their former self. (I'd never want to come back as myself to correct my previous mistakes; I've made so many that I would have no time to live my new life). Nobody gets rich because they know the future. In fact, knowing the future plays little role in the story. Nobody's getting laid because of what they know; in fact, the relationships that develop in the story are pretty much monogamous. All in all, it is unlike any do over I've read. If you haven't read it, you're in for something I can only describe as gently exciting. Enjoy it, and please share your favorite and why you like it.

Replies: irvmull REP richardshagrin Grey Wolf whisperclaw ystokes sunseeker flightorfight madnige Mushroom richardshagrin FrankyYorkie irvmull irvmull NC-Retired

irvmull 🚫
Updated:

@red61544

I think the quintessential do-over is by Al Steiner:

https://storiesonline.net/s/30059/doing-it-all-over

It has more depth and complexity than others that cover the same ground, and most others make it too easy on the MC. Just because you took piano and karate lessons as an adult doesn't somehow make an 80-lb kid into a rock musician / ninja overnight.

Replies: helmut_meukel Justin Case

helmut_meukel 🚫

@irvmull

Just because you took piano and karate lessons as an adult doesn't somehow make an 80-lb kid into a rock musician / ninja overnight.

To be really proficient in each in your former life, you would've had started those lessons as a teenager or earlier.
OTOH, having learned unarmed combat as an adult and stayed in training might give the now 80-lb kid enough advantage to best an untrained bully who is just a couple years older. The kid will lack the muscle memory his old body had, but he will still know where to hit and the bully will not expect his victim fighting back.

HM.

Justin Case 🚫

@irvmull

Definitely

REP 🚫

@red61544

I've read many do-over stories and I can't select a favorite for I liked them all about the same.

richardshagrin 🚫

@red61544

do over, under, around and through.

Replies: Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf 🚫

@richardshagrin

Do over unto others as you would have them do over unto you?

A model for positive relationships during a do-over, perhaps.

Grey Wolf 🚫

@red61544

Without plugging my own, I note the two previously mentioned, and in my original Foreword I also noted "A Fresh Start" by rlfj, and the sadly unfinished "Rewind" by Don Lockwood.

"Lightning In A Bottle" by Sage Mullins is also well done (I have not yet read the other "Lightning In A Bottle").

"The Transmographication of Jacob Hopkins" by aroslav is noteworthy because it is a non-time-traveling Do-Over (making 'knowing the future' impossible).

Picking one as a favorite is nigh impossible and I have no interest in trying. I'm the sort of person for whom, if you ask me what my favorite book/movie/album/etc is, I'll give you a long list. If you ask which on the list is the favorite, there's a decent chance I'll name something not even on it, or hand over another list.

Replies: gpalbertson

gpalbertson 🚫

@Grey Wolf

Yes! Lockwood's us my favorite.

whisperclaw 🚫
Updated:

@red61544

There's two that come to mind, but only one of them is in my library and I can't recall the name of the other one.

The one I do have is Out of Focus. I like that this one focuses on pivotal moments in the character's life, rather than coming back and completely reliving his life. Something that this and the other unnamed story have in common is that we see how making the right choice at the right time can make a big change in a person's life. This is not about abusing the circumstance to become rich and famous, so much as it's about correcting past wrongs.

Replies: Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf 🚫

@whisperclaw

This is not about abusing the circumstance to become rich and famous, so much as it's about correcting past wrongs.

This is an interesting point, and one I'm working with, slowly.

In early parts of the story I'm telling, I had feedback both from readers and editors complaining about the relatively slow rate of financial gain (which, in hindsight, seems to have picked right up and moved right along). The point for me was that (because I'd picked the character I picked, of course), financial gain wasn't the first goal. He'd lived a comfortable middle-class life. More is better, but he had a high confidence level he could do just fine, and that was 'enough'. Fixing past non-financial mistakes was the priority.

That said, the more the story continues, and the more the rest of one's life is 'fixed' (or improving, or whatever term you want - nothing is ever 'done'), the more someone with enough perspective to see larger 'wrongs' might want to do something about them, and that requires sufficient leverage. Sometimes information is enough, but there's a point to becoming 'rich and famous' that has nothing to do with being a lazy jerk and everything to do with trying to make everything better for everyone.

In my personal opinion, at least, anyone who's been alive for more than a few decades is going to look back, see a number of 'bad' events, and want to 'fix' them.

Then we get into a few things: unintended consequences (both direct and indirect), 'the cure is worse than the disease,' how one feels if the 'fix' didn't work and the tragedy still occurs, explaining it to others, and - of course - perspective. Two people with wildly different political views will most likely have wildly different takes on which things were 'wrong' - if Osama bin Ladin got a do-over, the 'wrongs' that needed 'fixing' might be very, very different from those someone else would wish to address.

Paraphrasing one of my characters: No matter what reason there was for someone receiving the miracle of a second chance (if there was a reason), it was most likely not to enable them to just be a pampered rich jerk.

Replies: StarFleet Carl

StarFleet Carl 🚫

@Grey Wolf

pampered rich jerk.

In the final segment from 'Groundhog Day,' Bill Murray finally gets to move on with Andie McDowell. Since a major part of his learning and ability to do things in the town is when he steals the money from the armored car, in keeping with his loop, he should have still done that on the last day in the time loop. He may not be rich, but he'd have an extra few thousand dollars.

Replies: Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf 🚫

@StarFleet Carl

Most time loops (including 'Groundhog Day') have an implied goal, where one needs to meet the criteria of the goal to exit the loop (implying some form of judge overseeing the goal). It's entirely possible that victimizing someone(s) and having the effects of that victimization last beyond the exit from the loop violates the goal of the loop.

It might have been nice to have seen a version of him doing everything 'perfectly' and being rejected because he kept the money, but it's a reasonable guess.

Off that direct point, but still worth saying: Time loops are interesting. Long-form do-overs are interesting. The overlap set is (for me, at least) terrifying and could be a definition of hell.

ystokes 🚫

@red61544

This is one that is on going right now that seems good.
Here I Go Again: My Second Chance
by Liza Devereaux
https://storiesonline.net/s/30882/here-i-go-again-my-second-chance

Here's a question, at what age would you want to come back at?

Replies: helmut_meukel

helmut_meukel 🚫
Updated:

@ystokes

Here's a question, at what age would you want to come back at?

Twelve or thirteen, and then in the next 5 or 6 years try to make a move on about 15 most older girls and young women I never dared out of fear of rejection.

HM.

Replies: richardshagrin ystokes

richardshagrin 🚫

@helmut_meukel

Twelve or thirteen,

On SOL at that age you can't have sex until you are 14.

ystokes 🚫

@helmut_meukel

Twelve or thirteen, and then in the next 5 or 6 years try to make a move on about 15 most older girls and young women I never dared out of fear of rejection.

For me it would be anything 16 or over so I could drive.

Replies: Mushroom

Mushroom 🚫

@ystokes

For me it would be anything 16 or over so I could drive.

Then make a do over set in Idaho prior to 1990. Before 1990, the driving age in that state was only 14.

There is a reason many of my stories are set in Idaho. Not only did I used to live there, I got my first license there when I was 14.

sunseeker 🚫

@red61544

Love the "Do-Over" genre though not following any of the current ones. I have a few in-progress myself but who knows if I will ever finish them or the others.

Thanks to all that write and post on SOL, and thanks to Lazeez for the site!

SunSeeker

flightorfight 🚫

@red61544

Never understood why the MC in most do over stories always has to sleep with his Mom and sisters? They almost always practice BDSM and start a harem.

Replies: awnlee jawking ystokes Radagast madnige muyoso

awnlee jawking 🚫

@flightorfight

It's probably a power thing, and knowledge is power. The same occurs in other stories where there's an imbalance of power eg mind control - the male protagonist frequently forms a harem that includes his female relatives.

AJ

ystokes 🚫

@flightorfight

Never understood why the MC in most do over stories always has to sleep with his Mom and sisters?

Those seem to happen in stories with "Much Sex" which I avoid.

Replies: Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf 🚫

@ystokes

I suspect part of the answer is 'location, location, location'. They're the first available women for the MC to sweep off their feet.

Perhaps there's also some element of the MC being free to be 'transgressive' because of their amazing do-over powers.

Radagast 🚫

@flightorfight

Replies: Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf 🚫

@Radagast

For mine (https://storiesonline.net/series/1583/variation-on-a-theme) there has been a very, very long-standing 'will they or won't they?' which might change the answer (currently 'no,' obviously).

Of course, the sister in my story has several unusual circumstances, and if things were to happen the 'incest' tag would not apply.

madnige 🚫

@flightorfight

Never understood why the MC in most do over stories always has to sleep with his Mom and sisters? They almost always practice BDSM and start a harem.

Simple - it's a flag that this one isn't worth spending the time to read it.

muyoso 🚫

@flightorfight

Much like how they must all be Karate experts, which I think is because most of the authors are boomers and that is what they consider badass I guess.

Replies: irvmull

irvmull 🚫
Updated:

@muyoso

Much like how they must all be Karate experts, which I think is because most of the authors are boomers and that is what they consider badass I guess.

Karate was the only martial art that most kids in the US had ever even heard of up until the 1980's. So it's not boomers - it's the reality of the times.

I suppose the MC could just shoot the bullies, since guns were allowed in school in the 60's. Or use a switchblade, but that's too New Yorkish. What do you suggest as the alternative? A stun gun?

Replies: Dicrostonyx

Dicrostonyx 🚫

@irvmull

Actually, I think muyoso's point is that it is weird that every do-over protagonist is an expert in martial arts that weren't common.

Why not have protagonists who use good old-fashioned punching, kicking, and wrestling? Or someone who doesn't have any training but stands up to the bullies anyway? Most bullies aren't exactly combat experts either, especially 50 years ago. Just having someone stand up to them and offer to return the violence would stop a lot of fights.

Replies: irvmull

irvmull 🚫
Updated:

@Dicrostonyx

I've always said that high school would have been much more pleasant if I had spent 4 years in the USMC first.

But that's not an option.

Why not have protagonists who use good old-fashioned punching, kicking, and wrestling? Or someone who doesn't have any training but stands up to the bullies anyway? Most bullies aren't exactly combat experts either, especially 50 years ago. Just having someone stand up to them and offer to return the violence would stop a lot of fights.

Perhaps you didn't attend high school? An 10th grade kid about 5'6" tall and 135 lbs is supposed to "wrestle" a senior who is over 6' and 200 to 300 lbs? Don't think so, even if the bully is a tub of lard, lard is bad for your health.

madnige 🚫
Updated:

@red61544

Not mentioned so far (I wonder why? /sarc) is The Road Taken...and Taken by Bruce Bretthauer & Colin Keizer, not on this site but over on BTFH. Not a conventional one, it has a young-old swap between a 10yo and mid-20's+ version of the MC; the young-mind one has to hold together an investment/business empire, where the older-mind one can take advantage of previously encountered business trends, but not immediately. No Harem, it would be classed 'minimal Sex' here; and anyway, the MC is female.

Another Female-MC Do-over is Not This Time by aroslav, which also doesn't have the stuff @flightorfight is complaining of.

ETA:
Another non-Harem, non-incest one (one of my favourites) is A New Past by Charlie Foxtrot, also not yet mentioned.

Replies: ystokes twobarkingdogs

ystokes 🚫

@madnige

Not mentioned so far (I wonder why? /sarc) is The Road Taken...and Taken by Bruce Bretthauer & Colin Keizer, not on this site but over on BTFH.

Maybe that's why it hasn't been mentioned.

twobarkingdogs 🚫

@madnige

Not mentioned so far (I wonder why? /sarc) is The Road Taken...and Taken by Bruce Bretthauer & Colin Keizer, not on this site but over on BTFH

What is BTFH. Thanks

.

Replies: madnige LonelyDad richardshagrin

madnige 🚫

@twobarkingdogs

A quick search of the forum will reveal this and more.. it's another website so I won't say more than that it's been discussed before.

LonelyDad 🚫

@twobarkingdogs

Mentioning other story sites isn't done. Just when you go to look for it use the .net extension.

Replies: rando

rando 🚫

@LonelyDad

Wait.
There are other sites like this one?

Replies: irvmull

irvmull 🚫

@rando

There are other sites like this one?

Yes, but none of the others are so "fortunate" as to have a @richardshagrin of their own.

richardshagrin 🚫

@twobarkingdogs

BTFH

"Correct all you're your grammar errors instantly. Try it now.
BTFH
Acronym Definition
BTFH Bastard Technicians from Hell (website)"

Gina may be willing to forgive me.

Replies: madnige PeckingChicken

madnige 🚫
Updated:

@richardshagrin

Gina may be willing to forgive me

...but Simon Travaglia probably won't

ETA: Whenever I binge on BOFH episodes, I get rather aggressive and short-tempered, and very sarcaustic... ever since I first came across them back in '95.

ETA2: Yes, sarcaustic. It's like sarcastic, but it burns instead of cutting.

PeckingChicken 🚫

@richardshagrin

Woah... Old school!

Mushroom 🚫

@red61544

I'd like to start a discussion on what is your favorite do over story. I don't want to know what the story is about, just why you like it more than other do overs. Mine definitely is "Once More With Feelings" by The Night Hawk.

That is also an early do over story, and one that was sadly never really finished. From what I remember the author just kind of wanted to end it so just wrote a quick chapter to close it out and that was it.

I myself wrote two stories that can fall within this area. In one of them the affect of the main character returning to their own past caused changes in time that ultimately resulted in the way the story ended. And that was actually purposefully written because almost none of the do overs ever seem to bring up the negative effects that can result from changing one's destiny.

The other was a time loop[ story, which was actually inspired by Groundhog Day. Where I assume that at least at some point such a character would have gone through a period of insanity, and become callous, brutal and savage. Instead of trying to help others they would have for a time become homicidal and reveled in brutality for the sake of cruelty because they knew there would never be repercussions of acting as such.

But both of those were specifically written to point out the possible negative effects of such happening. Kind of as a protest as how most such stories seem to have an almost perfect "Happily Ever After" ending.

Replies: Radagast

Radagast 🚫
Updated:

@Mushroom

https://storiesonline.net/s/44511/friday-the-13th

A Groundhog Day / Time Loop story where the MC starts to feel that way but doesn't actually go off the deep end.
Its a bit different, using a Choose Your Own Adventure style of activity to advance the Time Loop to a new segment.

richardshagrin 🚫

@red61544

"There'll be bluebirds over
The white cliffs of Dover
Tomorrow, just you wait and see
There'll be love and laughter
And peace ever after
Tomorrow, when the world is free
The shepherd will tend his sheep
The valley will bloom again
And Jimmy will go to sleep
In his own little room again
There'll be bluebirds over
The white cliffs of Dover
Tomorrow, just you wait and see
The shepherd will tend his sheep
The valley will bloom again
And Jimmy will go to sleep
In his own little room again
There'll be bluebirds over
The white cliffs of Dover
Tomorrow, just you wait and see
Source: LyricFind
Songwriters: Nat Burton / Walter Kent
The White Cliffs Of Dover lyrics © Gannon & Kent Music Co., Reservoir Media Management Inc"

So Do Over can be spelled Dover.

FrankyYorkie 🚫

@red61544

Do-overs are my favourite genres to read, we're very fortunate to have some fantastic authors here sharing their work.

For me, my favourite is Rollie Lawsons' (RLFJ) A Fresh Start https://storiesonline.net/s/68384/a-fresh-start

I don't want to come across as too much of a Fan Boy, but omg lol. It's very well written. I don't want to give any spoilers out, but when Marilyn meets Carl at the party, it's just beautiful, I can admit I had a few tears in my eyes. Rollie, if you're reading this, I love your work. The Grim series was epic.

I am currently reading Grey Wolf's Variation Of A Theme and I'm a big fan. It's a long long read but definitely worth it. I'm halfway through book 4 and currently waiting for him to complete the book before I continue reading it. I want to sit down and just read and read till it's done. I'm excited to see what Mr Wolf will do following book 4.

Another one I'd like to suggest to readers is Al-Canadian's Energists series. I messaged Al and he said that he may write a follow up story with Mike's Children. I really hope he does. The Energists series is a spectacular read. If you're a fan of music from the 70/80's you'll love this story. I would put the songs on that Mike is singing on YouTube while reading, it added a whole new dimension to reading. Awesome work by Al.

I just this morning finished reading Echo by Reluctant Sir. It was another well written book, very easy to read. I felt he ended the story a little too soon, but you need to understand that do over books can go on and on and on. He did end it well though. Maybe he can pick it back up in the future? Who knows.

A few other worthwhile reads are:
°Emend By Eclipse by Lazlo Zalezac
°Once More With Feelings by The Night Hawk
°Second Chance by Number 7 (I hope he comes back and sorts out the second book)

irvmull 🚫
Updated:

@red61544

It seems to me that do-over stories would have the greatest appeal to people who have "been there, done that", and wish they had made some different decisions along the way.

Time travel itself requires suspension of belief, but readers accept that as necessary.

What I think isn't necessary, and is counterproductive, is when authors abandon the idea of changing things for the better by making better decisions, and fall back on Superman comics solutions to all the problems.

Most of us realize that when we went thru life the first time, none of those super powers were available to us. What we could have done is a lot more interesting than what no one could have done.

e.g. lifting weights instead of potato chips and sodas [check]

learning to fly an airplane [check]

learning to fly without an airplane [sorry, no]

having the skills of a CIA assassin, when you were in the previous life a stock clerk at WalMart [don't think so]

Replies: Dominions Son Dicrostonyx

Dominions Son 🚫
Updated:

@irvmull

learning to fly without an airplane [sorry, no]

Sorry, yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingsuit_flying

having the skills of a CIA assassin, when you were in the previous life a stock clerk at WalMart [don't think so]

If the character undergoes the necessary training the second time around, maybe. On the other hand, such training is unlikely to be available to a teenager (typical age for a do-over).

Replies: irvmull

irvmull 🚫

@Dominions Son

Sorry, yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingsuit_flying

That's not flying.
It's just falling more slowly than usual.

Replies: Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf 🚫

@irvmull

I so wanted that response to be:

That's not flying.
That's falling with style.

Dicrostonyx 🚫
Updated:

@irvmull

Also, having an apparently perfect memory of every event in one's past life is highly problematic.

I'm pretty sure I didn't know about the Hunt Brothers cornering the market on silver until I read it in a Do-over, though granted I would have been 7 at the time.

I've always been interested in tech and computers and even in my early teens I was programming and taking classes, but I couldn't have told that that Microsoft's IPO was in 1986 if I hadn't just looked it up. First I recall M$ having big public recognition would be early 90s and the release of Windows 3.

If I had a Do-over now my best best to make it rich would be to use the library more and dump all my allowance into Star Wars figurines instead of books. I'm pretty sure learning to program Modula 2 wouldn't be any more interesting the second time, so I'd likely NOT try to get into programming again, and without a huge injection of cash in the early 90s it would be hard to take advantage of the dotcom bubble.

Somehow most do-over protagonists can recall the score of their favourite team's game 40 years later, every major company's IPO, and 100% of their schooling, not just the 2% they actually used in their career.

With that good a memory why do you need a do-over?

Replies: helmut_meukel Grey Wolf

helmut_meukel 🚫

@Dicrostonyx

Somehow most do-over protagonists can recall the score of their favourite team's game 40 years later, every major company's IPO, and 100% of their schooling, not just the 2% they actually used in their career.

With that good a memory why do you need a do-over?

Maybe you made – in hindsight – only bad decisions?

However your decision making has not improved and avoiding those you clearly remember, you'll stumble into all those new situations and again make bad decisions.

HM.

Grey Wolf 🚫

@Dicrostonyx

As a do-over author, this is something I struggle with. Most of the things my characters recall in terms of past events (games, stock issues, etc) are things I recall without needing to google the answer. If I don't know, they don't know.

And I'm not one of those people who memorizes endless lists of sports scores or stock facts, so their knowledge hopefully stays contained to some 'reasonable person' standard.

That said: I could've put the MS IPO in 1986 at pretty much any point in my life post-1986, or Dell's IPO in 1987, or a few similar things. The sports scores my characters know are either locally famous (Houston's failures in the NCAAs in back-to-back years) or notable games for other reasons.

Writing them struggling with important dates helps. If they know 'something bad is going to happen', but it's in a year, or a couple of years, what can one do? I've written several date misses for that reason (and to convey the reaction of someone who knew the bad thing was going to happen and was powerless to do anything about it).

Of course, my MC's biggest leg up in jumping from 'seed cash' to 'early wealth' is going to the same school as a well-known tech billionaire and being aware of that, so knowing who to build a relationship with well in advance of needing it. That's something anyone would remember ("Yeah, that famous 'self-made' rich guy was a senior one year before I was, and I even knew him somewhat at the time!" - not the sort of thing one forgets, for the most part).

Stepping away from that, being aware of the pattern of recessions and booms (at least vaguely) and especially knowing where and when to speculate in real estate will get you farther than collectibles, for the most part. The barrier to entry for collectibles is very low, but the timeline for a payout is often fairly high, and it's super-easy to buy the wrong thing. My parents had a cache of mint Star Wars merchandise (about four boxes worth). On face value, it cost them around $250 in the 1970s. It was worth about $500 in 2020.

Sure, if they'd bought the right rare comic, it'd be different, but unless you're the sort of comic book guy who knows which comic is the comic, you'll probably miss.

Replies: Dicrostonyx

Dicrostonyx 🚫

@Grey Wolf

especially knowing where and when to speculate in real estate will get you farther than collectibles

Certainly, but that only works if you are over 18 (able to sign contracts) and already have significant cash when the boom is going to happen.

Emend by Eclipse is a fun read, but the suspension of disbelief necessary for two teens to take their lawn mowing business to the heights they do is pretty extreme. Even with adult memories and a shit-tonne of plot armour it's not something most people could pull off without outside help.

It's great that Bill Gates and Paul Allen started Microsoft in their teens, but you can't ignore the fact that Gates comes from old money. In 1980, when Gates' mother was on the board of directors for the United Way, she discussed her son's company with John Opel, chairman of IBM. A few weeks later IBM coincidentally hired a small, unknown company to create an operating system for their upcoming personal computer.

Replies: Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf 🚫

@Dicrostonyx

I tend to agree with you. That said, Michael Dell's newspaper subscription business had a somewhat similar trajectory.

For those who don't know the story, Dell identified people most likely to subscribe to the local newspaper, called them, and earned a commission. After a while, he hired people to do the contacting. He eventually sold the whole thing for enough money to buy a BMW (at either seventeen or eighteen, depending on the source) and a reasonable amount of savings (which was then the basis for Dell Computer Corporation - aka PC's Limited or P.C.'s Limited, depending on the source).

His father was a successful middle-class doctor, but that had pretty much nothing to do with the newspaper business's success.

Emend by Eclipse does push the envelope in terms of plausibility. I would tend to say 'A New Past' pushes the envelope even more - yes, the protagonist knows all manner of clever technical things, but becoming a key supplier of the automotive industry before 18 really stretched plausibility.

irvmull 🚫
Updated:

@red61544

Maybe you made – in hindsight – only bad decisions?

I met Bill Gates a few years prior to Microsoft's IPO. Didn't invest $5,000, which would be $20 million today.

Basically, that used Chevy I bought instead "cost" me $20 million bucks.

You only need to remember one or two relatively minor things to make a big difference.

NC-Retired 🚫

@red61544

On FB, https://www.facebook.com/Wititudes

Just saw these words...

"I want to be 14 again and ruin my life differently.

I have some new ideas."

Yeppers!

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Do Over Stories

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