Forum: Author Hangout

you had to specifically request it from Lazeez

From my recollection the histogram was there, but the number of votes represented by the bar wasn't displayed. If you promise to not complain about the bar, Lazeez allowed the number of votes to be displayed.

From my recollection the histogram was there, but the number of votes represented by the bar wasn't displayed. If you promise to not complain about the bar, Lazeez allowed the number of votes to be displayed.

I wasn't complaining about it, I was simply explaining what I saw and how I got to it.

Hmmm I must be doing something wrong because I'm not seeing anything like that. I click on the story name and it brings me to a "Detailed Info and Stats" page for the story but it doesn't show any sort of graph or vote distribution.

I get one, but I need to scroll down to see it. It's just a bar graph, so it's not tpp visually accurate ii you get lots of fotes.

if there are more granular stats

I think that's pretty much it. Along the X-axis the scale goes from 1 to 10, and then there's a bar graph with the various heights, but there's nothing else.

So, if I look at my worst rated story - 'Winds of History', it rates 6.55 (which it deserves, it's a story set in the 'Winds of Change' universe, but it's also a corny joke). Total of 322 votes. Tallest bar is 8, with 80 votes. 7 has about 75, based upon extrapolation. 10 has about 50, 9 has about 40, 6 has about 30, and 5 has maybe 10. My numbers are off a little from guessing, because that averages out to 6.22, and the score is a little higher than that.

But 5 is the lowest score of any of my stories. I would presume that if there's more than a single 1 score, it would show up. I believe Laz uses an algorithm that pitches out one of your lowest and one of your highest scores, to average things out. There's also some kind of weighting, because depending upon what OTHER people that post at the same time as you get, it can affect your score as well.

I had asked Lazeez about this at the start of the year and his reply is below in quotes.

"This feature has been deprecated and it's not available for newer author account and will go away from author accounts in the near future. "

I really hope that's not the case.

Vote details are also the main indication as to the standard of work I am producing. How are you supposed to improve if you have no feedback?

agree

I agree as well, and it's a feature I don't have access to. I'd like some insight into how the voting is going.

I agree as well, and it's a feature I don't have access to. I'd like some insight into how the voting is going.

I will make it part of the 'if you want access to it you don't complain about it or discuss it in public' deal.

I didn't know anything about the 'don't discuss it in public' deal. Sorry. (Can I have it back?)

I haven't decided when to remove the graph from the long term authors yet, but I will make it part of the 'if you want access to it you don't complain about it or discuss it in public' deal.

Great.

That means it's not going away for those of us who agree not to complain. That's fair to you and fair to us.

Thank you.

While I've never complained about the scoring system and have frequently defended it I've not asked to be exempted because I see the "... don't discuss it in public .." as meaning I can't defend it in future. While I do sometimes view the graph I usually don't look at the scores except when seeking some stats during a discussion of them.

As far as I've been told multiple times in the last 20 years, storiesonline is one of the best stories sites with regards to feedback from readers.

I still see the vote distribution as well. It doesn't appear anything is different.

Problem is, most readers are too damn lazy to provide any sort of feedback. Some are just barely willing to use a pull-down menu and vote on a story and misuse the scoring system as a form of feedback. Fewer still will make a comment at the end of a story, and even fewer will send a message directly to a writer. Basically, the more effort that's required, the less people will be willing to put forth the effort.

The quote belongs to bk69, not me.

However to give an different viewpoint to your question; In my mind it depends on the reader and the writer and how the critique is phrased. Yes, plot direction is the purview of the writer, but how the writer gets there can be helped, and that is where the reader comes in.

When a writer, errr writes, the story is fully fledged in their mind, however the reader does not have that access. So what makes sense in the writers head does not necessarily transpose to the prose written down.

This is where feedback from readers is invaluable. How did the characters get from A to B? What do the characters look like? What does the environment of the story look like? These can be easily overlooked and detract from a story. Readers can help improve a story by asking for points to be clarified, for prose to be made sensible, for more attention to be paid to characters they (the reader) like.Etc, etc

The writer can, obviously, ignore all those requests, but where one reader struggles, others are bound to struggle as well. So it's in the writers interest to 'tweak' a story based on feedback. The difference in a good story versus bad, could simply be an overabundance of spelling errors which detract from the story. If no-one mentions that, then the chances of the mistakes being corrected are poor. The more that mention the errors, the higher the chance of them being corrected.

It also works the other way. The writer might try something different that the readers love, but if no-one tells the writer that, the writer might not do it again because they think no-one likes it...

Being told your story is great/rubbish is all very well, but ultimately not very helpful. What would be REALLY great, is if the reader took a couple of seconds more to say what was so good/bad. ie, "I really liked/hated the plot." "I thought the dialogue was brilliant/terrible." "The characters were believable/a joke."

With feedback like that, the onus is then on the writer as to whether they take the feedback on-board and change/adapt accordingly. If they don't? Well, that's their choice and their inability to grow as a writer is all their own fault, no-one else's.

Why would a reader bother when they know they can't criticize in a way to have the story changed and reposted to go how the reader preferred it to go? The idiot author had the nerve to write it how she wanted instead of catering to one particular reader.

To this, I would simply say "Tough shit. I am the author, this is how I have the story going. Do not like it? Feel free to put your fingers to the keyboard and write your own damned story".

And yea, I have had a ton of that over the decades. Hell, early on in CBCG I had a great many writing that Pete should get together with Linda's mom. Those generally made me cringe, I was not writing that kind of story at all. Or have him get with Linda and Mandy at the same time, along with Holly, Kimmie, Julie, and all of their friends.

Thankfully, from what I have seen that kind of reader behavior is largely reserved for those who have some particular kinks. They are into harems, incest, Cougar, and want every single story to cater to their own demands and nothing else.

To them, I simply say to read the damned codes, and let the author write what they want. I think it is safe to say most of us love interaction, but hate when people try to dictate how our stories go.

Hell, I sometimes have specifically written stories to take advantage of that. Like all the hate mail when at around a book and a half into a 3 book series, I had the female love interest finally be shown as a complete slut and whore, who was cheating on the main character just a few months after he moved.

Why would a reader bother when they know they can't criticize in a way to have the story changed and reposted to go how the reader preferred it to go? The idiot author had the nerve to write it how she wanted instead of catering to one particular reader.

To this, I would simply say "Tough shit.

I think she left out of her statement, "she said, satirically."

I think she left out of her statement, "she said, satirically."

Actually, I did get that. *laugh*

But it is an actual problem that I have had many times. Makes me want to go all German Director sometimes on them.

I am the Director here! You are an amateur, so shut up! Sit there, let me do my work, and do not interfere! Schnell!

Unless the site is paying for your stories, you too are an amateur.

Bad assumption there, actually.

I have actually worked as a professional writer, mostly creating technical documentation relating to computers. I have actually considered myself as a "professional writer" for years, even though my erotica is only done for enjoyment.

And in thinking back, I was also writing military manuals even years before that. As in 200+ page things relating to how military guards perform their duties. Or 50 page ones on how those involved in "Maintenance Management" would perform their duties.

In the same way a professional football player is a professional athlete, even if they only play golf for enjoyment.

In the same way a professional football player is a professional athlete, even if they only play golf for enjoyment.

Huh? Yes, they are professional athlete if they play professional football, but unless they play professional golf, they will always be an amateur golfer (who plays professional football).

Yet, I had to be very careful in the late 1970's when bowling in leagues with my dad, in order to keep my amateur status. Because at that point, doing so could have listed me as a "Professional Athlete".

And at that time I was into skiing, and wanted to keep my amateur status so I could have a chance to compete in the Olympics.

Today, we live in an era where that no longer matters. We have NBA players who can play in the Olympics. Myself, I am from the era where Jim Thorpe was still a harsh object lesson to those like me who wanted to compete for the Gold Medals.

Star football player in college, he went on to win gold medals in the Pentathlon and Decathlon, and was nicknamed "The World's Fastest Indian", as he was the first to win a gold medal. He won other medals, as he entirely competed in the Track & Field events.

But then it was discovered he played Professional Minor League Baseball ($2 a day), and had all of his medals stripped from him. In the 1970's, if you were in any amateur sport, this was pounded into you constantly.

I was active in Track, Wrestling, and Skiing. And had to be very careful, because becoming a "Professional Bowler" could see me barred from High School, College, and many higher competitions, like the Olympics.

I know that is no longer an issue, but it really was not very long ago where it was. And even in Golf, look at more than a few "Pro-Am" circuits. Where even football and baseball players will make up the "Pro" half of the team.

when bowling in leagues with my dad

Jason Belmonte bowled in a league when he was 3 years old. They didn't say it on the show, but I believe it was an adult league.

The reason he bowls with two hands is because the ball was too heavy for him to hold with one.

Jason Belmonte bowled in a league when he was 3 years old. They didn't say it on the show, but I believe it was an adult league.

You could do it then also. But there were stipulations you had to do in order to keep your amateur status. Which sucked, as at the end of my first league I had won a $100 purse (a hell of a lot in 1979), and had to turn it down.

Huh? Yes, they are professional athlete if they play professional football, but unless they play professional golf, they will always be an amateur golfer

When the Olympics was for 'amateurs', being a professional in one sport was enough to disqualify someone from entering at a completely unrelated sport.

AJ

When the Olympics was for 'amateurs', being a professional in one sport was enough to disqualify someone from entering at a completely unrelated sport.

Last time I checked, that's still true for the higher levels of school sports in the USA and can stop you from being eligible for intercollegiate play.

Last time I checked, that's still true for the higher levels of school sports in the USA and can stop you from being eligible for intercollegiate play.

Not anymore. California passed a "Fair Pay to Play Act" that allows athletes at Calif universities to make money from endorsement deals. Since the NCAA isn't barring those universities from competition (of course not!) other colleges will do the same.

Just like the Olympics, the day of amateur college sports is a thing of the past.

Just like the Olympics, the day of amateur college sports is a thing of the past.

Of course, that was mostly because of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Block. They kept getting medals in a lot of sports, because they technically had no "Professional Athletes" in the Worker's Paradise.

Of course, they in reality trained all the time, and were at the level of professionals. The closest the US had to that were those in the military. Like Ken Norton and Sergio Reyes. I actually served with Reyes in the Marines, he was actually assigned to the main gym on base, and spent almost all his time training. But on average, only 2 or 3 military boxers make it to the Olympic team.

That is why it was such a huge deal when we beat them in Hockey in 1980. It really was the equivalent of college players going against the best of the NHL.

Thankfully, that largely stopped. The US finally got that rule changed, and ran the "Dream Team" in basketball, and made the Soviets look stupid for a change. I think all have largely backed off of that now, and it is mostly amateurs once again.

But at least they allow those who are professional in one sport compete in another. I know more than a few football players participate in bobsledding for example.

Why would you want to sled on a bob?

If it's a certain Bob on SOL, whenever he sees a pretty female relative he'll brake sharply. (That's if he's lying on his stomach.)

AK

Not anymore. California passed a "Fair Pay to Play Act" that allows athletes at Calif universities to make money from endorsement deals. Since the NCAA isn't barring those universities from competition (of course not!) other colleges will do the same.

While the bill was signed into law in California it does not come into effect until 2023, so it doesn't apply yet. Also, as a Californian bill it has no effect on actions or activities outside of California. Thus, it is entirely possible that players who partake of what the act allows could find themselves banned from playing in games outside of California. Naturally, such a ban would affect their ability to win NCAA awards and how they're stats will be viewed when they enter the draft for their sport.

As of 2021 the eligibility rules in regards to money from sports are listed as:

"Student-athletes can accept prize money from tournaments or competitions if they do not exceed the total expenses from the event. During high school, D1 tennis players may take up to $10,000 in total prize money. If the student surpassed the amount of $10,000 of prize money in a calendar year, they would lose eligibility."

Last time I checked, that's still true for the higher levels of school sports in the USA and can stop you from being eligible for intercollegiate play.

I believe that's been broached in the G Younger's 'Stupid Boy' stories.

AJ

I believe that's been broached in the G Younger's 'Stupid Boy' stories.

ayep

Unless the site is paying for your stories, you too are an amateur.

When I sold my first short story, my amateur status was in question. When I was hired to write comic scripts, I was no longer an amateur. So when I published my novels, I was a professional even before someone bought one.

That's like saying a professional comic or musician reverts to amateur when they do a benefit for no pay.