I often wonder why some authors do not allow readers to rate their stories until they are complete. I personally do not read any story that is rated less than seven. I fear I am missing some good stuff. Any opinions?
I often wonder why some authors do not allow readers to rate their stories until they are complete. I personally do not read any story that is rated less than seven. I fear I am missing some good stuff. Any opinions?
A reader will often start a story and after 1 or 2 chapters find they do not like it. If voting is enabled, they give a low score and then drop the story. By not enabling voting until later in the story, the author does not get those low votes.
A reader will often start a story and after 1 or 2 chapters find they do not like it. If voting is enabled, they give a low score and then drop the story. By not enabling voting until later in the story, the author does not get those low votes.
The only problem with that is that a mechanism exists for finding out the current score even if the score is masked. Discovered it by accident. I hesitate to share it as I don't want this particular bug (feature?) to go bye bye. It probably will anyway now that Laz is alerted. :)
On the other hand, unless the story is by an author that I think has a proven track record of worthwhile stories, I won't waste any time on an unrated story.
I might give a story a low rate in the first chapter or two if it is just horrific, but not letting folks vote won't save the eventual score if it is that bad anyway.
Yes, the voting system here is problematic, with outliers possibly getting caught in a landslide of low votes and, of course, some folks padding the vote, but more often than not, it is accurate in a general sense.
For instance, it is exceedingly rare that I find a story rated below, say... a 7, that is worth reading. It happens, but not often.
And I say this while having two stories of my own that got voted down to below a seven, one of which I thought was better than that. The other was... admittedly meh, so it averages out.
For instance, it is exceedingly rare that I find a story rated below, say... a 7, that is worth reading.
Some good authors like rache and her pseudonyms have stories rated well below 7. Sometimes the story just doesn't appeal to some readers, who vote accordingly. That doesn't automatically make the story one to avoid reading.
For instance, it is exceedingly rare that I find a story rated below, say... a 7, that is worth reading. It happens, but not often.
It's my opinion that stories between 5 and 7 ratings usually fall into three basic categories.
1. Victim of spelling and grammar nazis justified or not.
2. The story are subpar for content. I.E. bad or no plot, poorly constructed, etc.
3. It is a niche story. Generally technically correct, containing a plot, etc. However, the story lacks broad appeal due to squicks or other limiting factors. Not everyone likes BDSM, Domsub, cheating, or other such elements. Proper use of codes mitigates that to a degree, but I'm sure there are some who bomb the story just because it has the tag.
There are some good stories between 5 and 7 rated, but I've not personally found any that fell outside of those base 3 generalizations.
My .02
but not letting folks vote won't save the eventual score if it is that bad anyway.
It is a matter of strategy. A bad story will never receive a very high rating. However a good story will be rated even higher if the initial poor scores from readers that do not wish to finish the story are not allowed.
It is a matter of strategy.
I don't know... I have a hard time swallowing that rationalization.
Strategy is working harder to write stories people like. It is picking topics that are popular and choosing to publish stories that have a broad base of appeal. It is even things like writing a more inviting intro to draw in readers.
Manipulating the vote mechanics in the hope of getting a better score is, at best, gamesmanship.
I want good scores, not going to deny that, but if I have to manipulate the system to get the better score, it would be a hollow victory at best.
Manipulating the vote mechanics in the hope of getting a better score is, at best, gamesmanship.
Calling it strategy or gamesmanship doesn't matter that much. There are a few authors who feel that the ratings are important and they are willing to manipulate the system to improve their stories' ratings.
Manipulating the vote mechanics in the hope of getting a better score is, at best, gamesmanship.
I don't agree. For example, an author might feel it's not right to score their story until it's complete. Why is that gamesmanship?
I don't agree. For example, an author might feel it's not right to score their story until it's complete. Why is that gamesmanship?
I was talking about writers that turn voting on after a few chapters, or midway, and not writers who leave it off until after it is posted. I hadn't really thought about turning it on at the end though I think you will get fewer readers and fewer votes in total doing that.
I know I will almost always pass on a story that is not rated, but that is just me and is probably not indicative of other readers.
Personally, I have to ask: Why should the writer be allowed to have any control over when the user votes or how they vote?
Not my website and not my system but not having any control has never stopped me from voicing an opinion (which counts for naught) so let me say this:
I think it should be opt in or opt out. I am even okay if a writer wants to do it on a story-by-story basis, if that makes them happy, but this "you can vote but only when I tell you" system we have now introduces a loophole that some people are bound to try and exploit.
I think it should be opt in or opt out. I am even okay if a writer wants to do it on a story-by-story basis, if that makes them happy, but this "you can vote but only when I tell you" system we have now introduces a loophole that some people are bound to try and exploit.
I should probably have exploited that facility for 'Gay!' :(
Otherwise-advantaged readers assumed the story involved gay sex and piled in to give it low scores. It wasn't until almost halfway through that the rating crept above 7, the finished novel currently hovering around 7.9.
AJ
I should probably have exploited that facility for 'Gay!' :(
Otherwise-advantaged readers assumed the story involved gay sex and piled in to give it low scores. It wasn't until almost halfway through that the rating crept above 7, the finished novel currently hovering around 7.9.
Which is exactly why I turn on voting after six or so chapters are posted. I'm not sure how executing a strategy to avoid '1-bombs' is manipulative. As I see it, it's countering manipulation. I started this before raw scores were hidden, but after I saw the '1-bombs' pile in.
My other option is to leave scoring off until the end, which I'd prefer not to do.
If someone thinks the story is shite after five or six chapters, so be it. And nothing prevents them from defeating MY actions, as they can always jump to the last posted chapter to vote. But the '1-bombers' don't seem to do that.
Personally, I have to ask: Why should the writer be allowed to have any control over when the user votes or how they vote?
I always ask, how can a reader score a story they haven't finished?
Actually, I've never kept scoring off until the story was completed. But I have turned scoring off until the first few chapters were posted. Not often, but sometimes I thought they had to read up to a certain point to score it fairly. For example, if I label the story "much sex" and the sex doesn't start until Chapter 3, if I only have 2 chapters posted and there's no sex, someone's going to get upset and score it down, even if I have the "slow" story code.
Given that the site tends to score lower than the story (one recent submission of mine garnered nothing but seven and above scores but still ended up with a six point four something score due to the way votes are calculated), so with that in mind, I would definitely say that you are missing out by not reading any story less than seven.
There are some really good five scoring stories on here, that I am presuming have fallen foul of some readers with ulterior agenda's.
My two pence would be to look at the description, see if you fancy it, then give it a try. You will know within the first few paragraphs whether or not you will like it. If you do, carry on reading, if not, move on...
I did that too until I realized that I indeed did miss some very good stories. Take Pixy's advise and judge for yourself based on the description and codes, and read one or two chapters before deciding if you like it or not.
The problem is: What deserves a certain rating? To leave SOL authors out of it, I'll use traditionally published books for examples. They were all bestsellers so they should all be rated high. NOT!
I loved "The Da Vince Code." If it were on SOL, I'd give it a 10. I gave it 5 stars on Goodreads. But the critics said Dan Brown can't write. I didn't see it that way. I liked his writing style. And then I read "The Lost Symbol." Hated it. I would probably give it a 5 on SOL (or maybe lower). I gave it a 1 star on Goodreads. Both novels are by the same author. Both writing styles the same. But one had a great story and the other, awful. So since I liked the writing style, it was all about the story that made the difference with those two novels.
Let's move on to another author. I read "The Hit" by David Baldacci. Hated his writing which affected the enjoyment of the story. If I hadn't been on a trip to Italy and only brought that one book I wouldn't have finished it. I gave it 1 star on Goodreads. On SOL? Maybe a 6 (I liked the ending). And now I'm reading "Total Control" by the same author. The writing is still pretty bad (head-hopping, too much detail, etc.), but the story, once I got into it, is great. I'll probably give it 4 stars on Goodreads (can't give it 5 stars because of the poor writing). On SOL? Probably a 10. I would forgive an SOL author for the poor writing more than I would on Goodreads (amateur vs professional author).
So a lot of it, for me, has to do with the story. But also the writing style. (Thankfully with traditionally published books I don't have to deal with typos, grammar errors, etc.)
On SOL, in my opinion, that's not true for readers. For some reason, really long stories score better, even if they should have ended halfway through. And then there's content (squicks) that cause a reader to rate the same story higher or lower because of something in it he likes or dislikes.
I'm not faulting SOL's scoring system. I'm not even faulting the readers doing the scoring. The system is set up to rate how much you like or dislike the story. The reason I don't put much credence in a story's score is simply because what I like or dislike doesn't coincide with many other SOL readers who are scoring the story. That's not right or wrong. It's just the way it is.
On SOL, in my opinion, that's not true for readers. For some reason, really long stories score better, even if they should have ended halfway through. And then there's content (squicks) that cause a reader to rate the same story higher or lower because of something in it he likes or dislikes.
I suspect a large part of that is there are many readers who don't read a short story because they're looking for a longer read, then they won't stay with a long story if they don't like the first few chapters and drop out without scoring, so the votes are by those who stay with the story and like it.
I'm one of those readers. If it's less than 100 kb, I don't read it, much less score it.
Edited for clarification
I'm one of those readers. If it's less than 100k, I don't read it,
Wow. even my novels are less than 100k words. My longest is 95k. Most published genre fiction, other than Fantasy, is under 100k words.
ETA: Never mind. You're talking size in kb and I'm talking words.
There is no perfect scoring system since EVERY score given is a personal opinion from the reader. One reader can disregard a lot of typos while with others it disrupts their reading. Result: for some it influences their scoring and for others not. It's more about how much a reader liked the story. In my humble opinion the only thing a 'professional' book has on what is considered 'amateur' writing here on SOL: the 'professional' books have almost no typos left after extensive editing. I consider some authors here on SOL way better than some 'professional' authors. A lot of the 'professional' books are more marketing and social pressure than excellent writing.
I consider some authors here on SOL way better than some 'professional' authors. A lot of the 'professional' books are more marketing and social pressure than excellent writing.
Like 50 Shades of *oh my god how did this crap make it into print????* Gray?
I try not to speak poorly of any writer, it can be tough getting a story down in readable form, but that book was drek, sorry. A 2 or 3, tops.
Like 50 Shades of *oh my god how did this crap make it into print????* Gray?
That book is the number one example of a bad book seen as "good" through clever marketing and social build up with the "must read too to be part of the group" stigma.
I try not to speak poorly of any writer, it can be tough getting a story down in readable form, but that book was drek, sorry. A 2 or 3, tops.
I liked it, and I think it's been grossly misrepresented by people who haven't read it.
On the 0-3 star rating scale I use for SOL, I'd rate it somewhere between 1 and 2 stars, placing it around the 90th percentile of stories I bother to read.
On an unrelated note, E L James is campaigning for the UK to cut the VAT rate for e-books to 0% now that we're escaping from the EU, pointing out how it particularly punishes the elderly and disabled.
AJ
E L James is campaigning for the UK to cut the VAT rate for e-books to 0% now that we're escaping from the EU
What does it have to do with the EU. From an article dated Oct. 2, 2018 (https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/international/international-book-news/article/78199-europeans-approve-flexible-vat-for-e-books.html):
The European Union has voted to allow the 28 member states to apply lower value added tax (VAT) rates to electronic publications, including e-books and downloadable audiobooks. The ruling, which was approved by the Economic and Financial Affairs Council of the E.U. and was proposed 18 months ago, is the culmination of a long process of trying to introduce competitive tax rates for e-books.
Though the regulations governing application of tax cover the entire membership of the E.U., each country is allowed to determine and apply their own rate of tax.
And I don't know about E.L. James, but the article (back in 2018) says:
In the U.K., where e-books are currently charged at a VAT rate of 20% (while the VAT on print books is at zero), the Publishers Association reiterated a call to eliminate VAT on e-books. "The government must act now to remove this unfair and illogical tax on e-books, magazine and newspaper online subscriptions," Stephen Lotinga, CEO of the Publishers Association, tweeted. "It makes no sense in the modern world that readers are being penalized with an additional 20% tax for choosing to embrace digital. We should not be taxing reading and learning,"
What does it have to do with the EU.
I believe the EU collects a portion of whatever VAT is charged so it has a vested interest in there not being zero-rated items (hence the abhorrent tampon tax) - rates are normally prescribed within narrow bands.
Also, as part of the ongoing process of each EU country becoming Borg, pressure for tax harmonisation is constantly increasing.
Now the UK is free, it can drop the tax on e-books completely without having to go on bended knee and beg.
AJ
Now the UK is free, it can drop the tax on e-books completely without having to go on bended knee and beg.
They could also go the other way.
They could also go the other way.
Unlikely. IIRC, printed word (paperbacks, hardbacks, newspapers and magazines) have been zero-rated ever since VAT was introduced, hence the UK sense of outrage at the disparity with e-books.
AJ
IIRC, printed word (paperbacks, hardbacks, newspapers and magazines) have been zero-rated ever since VAT was introduced, hence the UK sense of outrage at the disparity with e-books.
Aahhh, but that's an UK decision, the EU does not interfere with the decision of the members how much to rate the goods. Germany has no zero tax items, just full tax (actually 19%) and reduced tax (actually 7%). Originally it was full tax/half tax and both rates were increased over the years until we had 14%/7%, but after this only the full tax got increased to 15%, then 16%. The last increase to 19% was made after an election were the Union party (CDU/CSU) said no increase while the Social Democrats (SPD) argued for 18%. During the coalition negotiations the Union party accepted a "compromise" of 19%! The EU did never interfere with those decisions.
The EU does arguing to "harmonize" the tax rates between the members to avoid large discrepancies between neighboring members, but that's about all taxes, especially those for alcohol, tobacco, coffee, sugar, etc.
HM.
The last increase
I never thought of checking to see if any of the EU countries had a VAT increase since I priced my ebooks. Do increases for all VAT countries (EU and UK) occur at a specific time? If so, is it Jan. 1? If not…?
Do increases for all VAT countries (EU and UK) occur at a specific time?
Not that I'm aware of. For example, the UK changed VAT rates twice within a very short period in response to the financial crisis.
AJ
Do increases for all VAT countries (EU and UK) occur at a specific time?
No, every country makes its own decision concerning VAT rate, date of change and what items are charged with which rate and how many reduced rates it has.
The EU has rules about what is taxable (e.g. insurances are not taxable with VAT) which causes a separate insurance tax in Germany – same as VAT, 19%, but not deductible.
HM.
According to my newspaper, the UK currently charges VAT at 5% on sanitary products - the lowest rate possible because the EU considers tampons etc to be 'luxury goods'.
Our new Chancellor has indicated the rate will drop to zero at the first legal opportunity, 1st January 2021, at which point the transition period will be over.
AJ
Our new Chancellor has indicated the rate will drop to zero at the first legal opportunity,
About time..!! But knowing our government, there will be strings attached...
Aahhh, but that's an UK decision, the EU does not interfere with the decision of the members how much to rate the goods.
The EU limits VAT rates to relatively narrow bands. For example, the general rate cannot be reduced below 15%. Countries can opt out on some items for cultural/historic reasons - hence the UK's zero rate on books and many food items.
AJ
One thing that should not change is the rating system. Whatever the algorithm used, as long as it's consistent, readers can adjust accordingly. If the methodology changes constantly, the system becomes worthless imo.
@REP has pointed out one of the many ways of gaming the rating system. So for useful comparisons, readers have to take into account the story length, story codes, frequency of original posting, when scoring was switched on, whether the authors have a stereotype that they adhere to ...
AJ
There will always be a way to game a rating system. Attempts to remediate that will only change the methodology of gaming the system and introduce new variables making the system even less reliable.
The fact and admission by REP only goes to prove that point. I seriously doubt REP is alone in that.
and admission by REP
I'm not certain what you meant by admission. If you think I am using manipulative practices to improve my story ratings, you are wrong. Knowing that some people use a manipulative means to improve their ratings does not mean that you are doing it,
The story rating system is, and always has been, meant for the readers to rate how much they liked the story thus trying to take into account anything else is a personal decision of each reader on how much they think it affected how the like the story. Nothing else is work talking about in regards to the story ratings.
meant for the readers to rate how much they liked the story
That's pretty much how I have taken it, and how I use it.
Don't forget, too, that if you vote for a story that's in progress, you CAN change your vote later on. There's a story in progress right now that I didn't like that much when I first started it - the first several chapters were clunky to me. As the story has gotten longer, it's gotten better - and my vote has changed on that story to reflect it.
The story rating system is, and always has been, meant for the readers to rate how much they liked the story thus trying to take into account anything else is a personal decision of each reader on how much they think it affected how the like the story. Nothing else is work talking about in regards to the story ratings.
Eaxctly, although the site's post-processing of the score also factors in. I just re-discovered that aspect not even an hour ago where while reading the updated/new stories feed, I could look at a few story descriptions and immediately go "That story would likely be a near-immediate 1 vote, if I bothered to read it. But I'm not going to, so I won't be voting on it." Which is why SOL tends to pull the average down, people in general don't tend to read/vote on stories they have no desire to read. And as the polling system is based on reader interest, well...
I miss the old rating system that allowed a separate score for 'technical quality'. Nothing turns me off more than an interesting plot poorly executed. I know most people here don't seem to care about spelling, grammar and punctuation (based on scores I've seen), but few things will put me off more quickly, no matter how engaging the story.
I've said it many times, and I'll say it again - don't trust scores.
I've said it many times, and I'll say it again - don't trust scores.
Trust but verify? I think, if taken as a general indication of (relative) quality, they are sufficient.
I know most people here don't seem to care about spelling, grammar and punctuation
I don't think that is quite fair.
I think readers realize they are getting amateur writers posting free stories and (most) are not overly critical of minor issues.
The majority of those who write, care, but not enough to pay for a professional editor on a free story.
Every single time I post a new chapter my rating drops within an hour or two (one of the 10s goes away, though the graphs are inconclusive enough that I can't tell where they're landing). Every single time. I've come to find it amusing. "Hey buddy, F you for posting a new chapter!"
Every single time I post a new chapter my rating drops within an hour or two (one of the 10s goes away, though the graphs are inconclusive enough that I can't tell where they're landing).
You should read the two pages below on how the scoring and the site works. However, there are two possible answers to what you mention:
1. Someone changes their score from 10 to something else because they don't like something in the latest chapter.
2. You get enough new votes that the 5% cuts enlarge to remove more votes from the top and bottom scores, so you lose a 10 at the same time as you lose another of the lowest scores given so far.
https://storiesonline.net/h/8/how-are-scores-calculated-and-how-does-scoring-work-in-general
https://storiesonline.net/sol-secure/user/help.php#cat-Authors
Every single time I post a new chapter my rating drops within an hour or two
Yes, I experience that repeatedly as well. I try to look at it objectively, but I have to admit, that when I write a story, and it does well, I am now becoming loathe to add to it because I know that doing so, will reduce it's score (by quite a fair margin normally). Which is a little counterproductive, I suppose.
I know that people say they write for their own pleasure and scores do not matter, but I have since discovered that I am not one of them.
I write because I enjoy it, yes, but I publish because I enjoy the feeling of satisfaction I get when I see a good score, because I have written something someone has enjoyed, and because of that, I have made their day that little bit better.
Interestingly, target audience pays a part as well. I have a written a sci-fi story and published it both here and at the sister site scifistories, and their is a 0.44 difference in favour of scifi, where it's currently residing at 7.73
I've definitely read how the scoring works. I expect motion when the story gets longer. It's more that a 10 disappears every single time I post a new chapter. In general the score trends very gradually upward. I get 1-2 new votes per chapter, which is fine. I'm guessing it's the "edge cuts" that keep decapitating the 10 (though the one remaining 5 has been there forever), but viewed in a vacuum it's still amusing.