Is is possible these days to travel without a credit card? Can you, for example, reserve a hotel room or even check in at a motel or hotel with only cash? How much cash would you have to put up for a $200-a-day room? I know they use your credit card as security in case you trash their room, and they can then get your home address and other information from the credit card company. I'm sure you can buy gasoline and groceries and eat in restaurants with cash only.
Can you, for example, reserve a hotel room or even check in at a motel or hotel with only cash?
Depends on where you travel and the quality of the place. I doubt it's possible to go to any high end place without either a credit card or being well known there first. Cheap places can be done on cash, and most won't get in the books for taxing. In some countries you can't move without a credit card or some form of legal ID.
Is is possible these days to travel without a credit card?
You don't have a credit card or you are somehow afraid of using a credit card?
Credit cards are the best thing from a security point of view.
Credit cards are the best thing from a security point of view.
Best thing for who? The consumer? The credit card company? I was reading an old old newspaper column by Don Whitehead (he was the author of "The FBI Story," which was made into a movie and was the basis of a television series) in which he was lamenting that some unaccomplished insubstantial young men could flash a credit card and get a hotel room just as easily as he could (I think he saw himself as a proven solid citizen). I gather from some of the comments that it must be impossible to rent a car without a credit card.
If you're worried about the card being read without your consent, there are small cases that are radio proof and protects your cards in your pocket.
For all other cases, credit cards are the most secure. If somebody robs you, you can cancel your card within minutes. If somebody uses it without your consent, you're not liable. If somebody notice that you're using all cash, you become a big target for robbery. If they rob you and you had cash, you can't get your cash back.
Wanna hear it from an FBI agent specializing in fraud and security?
https://youtu.be/vsMydMDi3rI?t=43m20s
The whole video is great to watch, but the bit about credit cards comes at 43m:20s
I appreciate the sales job on the wonders of using a credit card, but the whole point of the query is about how NOT to use a credit card. The motive is unimportant. I can remember a time when (before interstate highways) families did not carry credit cards at all. I assume that my dad carried cash, but I really wasn't paying attention at the time. Have we really come to the point where we all MUST carry credit cards (or some similar thing, such as a cash card or a bank card).
An interesting thing is my wife and I went to Hawaii on vacation. Some places would accept credit cards, but not bank cards. I don't see the difference from the vendors POV.
I don't see the difference from the vendors POV.
I suspect the differences are that something in the fine print of what you sign when registering grants the vendor the right to charge you for damage, etc. after you've gone, and your authorisation of a credit card payment gives them the capacity to access your money.
When I went to Calgary Canada in 2016 I couldn't reserve a hotel without a credit card. I had to see if something was available when I arrived, and pay in full, in advance (cash), for all days I wanted to book the room. Restaurants, taxis, etc no problem paying cash. Just coudn't reserve the hotel in advance,,,
I don't need a credit card in most of continental Europe - unless renting a vehicle. France has different rules (surprise!) and I have not needed a hotel in a British city for decades so can't comment there.
In Europe it's convenient but not necessary. I don't have a credit card, never needed one. For on-line hotel reservations it might be easier but again, not necessary. I pay with with my bank card and pin. If it gets stolen I can cancel that within minutes but meanwhile the robber can't use it without my pin number.
For on-line shopping we have iDeal in the Netherlands, it's... ideal ;) Fast and direct and the shop knows immediately that the payment has been processed so he can start shipment immediately. Nowadays even AliBaba and Amazon support iDeal. In Germany cash is still big.
So what do I do? I carry my bank card and some cash. If cash gets low I go to an ATM and get some more so there's never too much that could be stolen. I could pay with the bank card but I prefer cash. The most important advantage of this? Privacy and anonymity. What I buy with cash can't be registered to my name and no-one knows what I bought with my money. That's important to me.
For on-line shopping we have iDeal in the Netherlands,
I recently read about a country in your neck of the woods that is becoming a cashless society. That is, cash isn't accepted. It may have been Sweden. I don't think they were talking about credit cards, though. It was paying with apps on your phone. Maybe that's what iDeal is by you.
Another great thing from a consumer perspective with credit cards is float. You can keep your money earning interest until the bill is due. Of course, if you don't pay your entire bill each month you are screwed.
And some credit cards have perks. I get 2% back on my purchases. That's getting 2% off every item. Spend $40,000/yr on your card and you get back $800.
I recently read about a country in your neck of the woods that is becoming a cashless society. That is, cash isn't accepted. It may have been Sweden.
It was Sweden but I had heard that they were backing away from the idea again. Someone based (near?) there would have to say how things are now.
And some credit cards have perks. I get 2% back on my purchases. That's getting 2% off every item. Spend $40,000/yr on your card and you get back $800.
Yeah, and the CC company gets roughly 15 to 25 cents of the first dollar of every transaction your retailer makes with them, and then takes anywhere from 3 to 7% on top of that(and as the dollar amounts go up "additional fees" are charged to the retailer). So that 2% cash back sounds great, up until you realize both you and the retailer are coming out behind in the deal.
And then the banks managed to make it illegal in most states to charge more for people using credit over cash.
So that 2% cash back sounds great, up until you realize both you and the retailer are coming out behind in the deal.
The merchant might come out behind, but I come out ahead.
And what of the lost sales if they don't take a cc? My wife is a fused glass artist and we sell in an arts and craft fair twice a year. Most people expect to pay with a cc. Don't take it and they walk away.
My wife is a fused glass artist and we sell in an arts and craft fair twice a year.
Just curious - you're discussing dichroic glass, right? That's what MY wife makes - or did, before we moved here and had to give up our kiln. That's also what we did - she made jewelry (earrings, pendants, rings) and I did woodworking and laser engraving.
Just curious - you're discussing dichroic glass, right?
That's one of the glasses she uses. It's the sparkly one. She uses other glasses too.
She does not make jewelry. She makes sculptures, wall art, bowls, coasters, etc.
We built a house with a 3rd-car garage. Well, a garage big enough for a golf cart (although one neighbor keeps her Mini Cooper in hers). We made it her studio with the kiln, sink, all the power tools, a work surface, shelves, places to keep the molds, etc. And it's heated and air conditioned (important in our desert heat).
She does not make jewelry. She makes sculptures, wall art, bowls, coasters, etc.
We built a house with a 3rd-car garage.
That's what I used to do with wood, and eventually when I get room, plan to do again.
We had a 5 car detached garage that I turned into our workshop. 2 cars of it was my woodshop, one car was our wood and other material storage, the other 2 car portion was where her kiln, torches, and our yard equipment was.
We had a 5 car detached garage that I turned into our workshop. 2 cars of it was my woodshop, one car was our wood and other material storage, the other 2 car portion was where her kiln, torches, and our yard equipment was.
Somewhere along the line you appear to have lost the basic concept of what a 'garage' is. :-)
Somewhere along the line you appear to have lost the basic concept of what a 'garage' is. :-)
Previous owner of the house had used it for his boat and motorcycles. Since the house also had a two car attached garage, and we didn't have extra vehicular toys ... voila, convert to shop.
For my wife and I, for us the perfect house down here would be a ranch (don't like stairs anymore), about 1,500 square feet total, 3 bedrooms, 2 bath, with a nice sized kitchen and single living room, two car attached garage.
With a 40' x 60' outbuilding, cement floor, insulated walls and ceiling, with heat, air conditioning, and plumbing so it has its own toilet and sink, and its own 200 amp panel. Outside but attached, a covered storage for wood drying. Two single man doors, one double wide man door, one roll-up 25' wide garage door.
(don't like stairs anymore)
I've been in a house that was built on a slope and they had gentle ramps between levels so it was easy moving about. The odd thing to me was you entered on the street level to the main visitor area, but when you started up the ramp to the private area the ramp was on the left with the family room about halfway up the ramp going off to the left so it was like level 1.5, then the main area and that area each had another level over them. Thus the left of the house was built like half a floor above the right side of the house, weird at first, but it put most family areas within half a level of the main family area.
I've been in a house that was built on a slope and they had gentle ramps between levels so it was easy moving about.
It's called a Split-level home.
If it's one particular type of split-level home, it's called a Splanch - a Split-Level Ranch house. At one point, I lived in one of those.
If it's one particular type of split-level home, it's called a Splanch - a Split-Level Ranch house. At one point, I lived in one of those.
I had never heard about that one before so I had to look it up. Seems a nice type of home to me although I would prefer a single level.
And then the banks managed to make it illegal in most states to charge more for people using credit over cash.
There are about 35 states that have NO laws as to whether the merchant may or may not charge additional 'fees' or 'surcharges' or what you may want to call it.
http://www.ncsl.org/research/financial-services-and-commerce/credit-or-debit-card-surcharges-statutes.aspx
There are about 35 states that have NO laws as to whether the merchant may or may not charge additional 'fees' or 'surcharges' or what you may want to call it.
http://www.ncsl.org/research/financial-services-and-commerce/credit-or-debit-card-surcharges-statutes.aspx
Which is why I later clarified to "the states where most people live" (most populous states)
And that list almost bears it out:
Eleven states—California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma and Texas—and Puerto Rico have laws that prohibit merchants from charging consumers with surcharges on credit card transactions.
1. California 39.25M
2. Texas 27.86M
3. Florida 20.61M
4. New York 19.74M
15. Massachusetts 6.93M
21. Colorado 5.54M
28. Oklahoma 3.92M
29. Connecticut 3.57M
~30* Puerto Rico 3.41M (not a state)
Gets us to 130.83 Million people right there. however, that is still shy of the 168 Million needed for "most."
Of course, I left off Kansas and Maine from the list, but as the #35th and #42nd ranked state for population, they only add another 4.23 Million people combined.
edit: But you also are correct that it is structured as "may not charge an additional fee or surcharge" for using plastic in lieu of cash. Although I doubt a flat discount for paying cash would hold up well to a challenge in court under that kind of law.
I know Florida has that law but I also know that a major truck stop on I-10 near Jacksonville has a billboard with the gas prices flashing showing one price for cash sales and a higher price for credit card sales. This sign has been up for years.
I did some further study on this and in Florida the surcharge law was declared unconstitutional in 2015 by a three judge appeals court. The state may appeal this to the full panel as it was a 2 to 1 decision. Also the law firm of Buchanan, Ingersoll and Rooney stated on their website "In Florida, however, these landlords and retail owners have to use caution when attempting to charge different prices for cash and credit card transactions. Florida Statute Section 501.0117 prohibits Florida sellers or lessors from imposing "a surcharge on the buyer or lessee for electing to use a credit card in lieu of payment by cash, check or similar means." The statute, however, "does not apply to the offering of a discount for the purpose of inducing payment by cash, check or other means not involving the use of a credit card." This language appears to simply prohibit businesses from using the term "credit card surcharge" as they can essentially do the same thing and call it a "cash discount." By violating this statute, a person is guilty of a second degree misdemeanor, punishable by 60 days in jail or a fine of $500. See Fla. Stat. § 775.082 and Fla. Stat. § 775.083."
Difficulties traveling with a credit card are tied to identification and tracking. That goes back to the Patriot and National Defense Authorization Acts. There are also elements of The Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act involved via subsequent rule changes.
Try getting a room without identification. It's not so much about payment as it is tracking.
Thanks. For ID, I assume a driver's license is insufficient? If I set out today with ample cash ("good for all debts") to travel all the way across the U.S. on a blue highway (say U.S. 50 - I think it still goes from coast to coast) and I did NOT want to a credit card, bank card, cash card or any of those similar things to help establish ID and assure others I can pay, is it doable? Incidentally, our local FedEx shop will not accept cash.
I've done what you're describing with just a drivers license. Hotels do not like it, especially the national and international chains. The path of least resistance is through independent hotels and bed & breakfast locations.
I did that in 2017 when I retired to see if someone can fall off the grid. Making it without use of plastic was doable, falling off the grid was not. Between Atlanta and Seattle I counted eighteen times I was aware of being tagged. License plate scanners on HWP, cameras, and one z-scanner van (in Kansas). If I can detect eighteen, I feel confident there was at least triple that number I couldn't see.
The people stating it would be easy have never tried it.
For government purposes, the plastic follows the money for tracking.
There are as mentioned above, multiple congruent checks along the way. There are other forms of tracking such as cell phone pings, onstar/vehicle tracking pings for newer cars, etc.
I made that trip to satisfy my curiosity. However, I went live when I got to Seattle. In this day and age, that tracking can be your friend. If you get wrongly accused of anything, that same tracking is your alibi.
How you're tracked varies by world regions. The places where you're not tracked very well, if at all, are typically 3rd world.
Edit for link;
http://www.global-security.org/en/products/37-backscatter-xray-inspection/34-zbv
They've been around a decade that I know of.
I think it still goes from coast to coast) and I did NOT want to a credit card, bank card, cash card or any of those similar things to help establish ID and assure others I can pay, is it doable?
If you don't use high end accommodation it should be, but you don't know now. However, I have read of backpackers making long distances with cash only.
If I set out today with ample cash ("good for all debts") to travel all the way across the U.S. on a blue highway (say U.S. 50 - I think it still goes from coast to coast) and I did NOT want to a credit card, bank card, cash card or any of those similar things to help establish ID and assure others I can pay, is it doable? Incidentally, our local FedEx shop will not accept cash.
Careful about that 'This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private' on your US money. It doesn't mean what most people think it means.
If you have a debt, you may always pay in cash, but for example, standing at the 7-11 or CVS to make a purchase, you do not have a debt, even if they have rung up the purchase. Similarly, when you try to check into the hotel, you do have have a debt. That said, once you've pumped the gas into your car you DO have a debt (though everyone makes you pay first these days).
It is also perfectly legal to say 'exact change only' or 'no pennies' or 'no bills larger than $20', BUT if you've eaten your meal, they'd have a heck of a time refusing that $50 or $100 bill, unless it was conspicuously posted and you were informed of the policy and agreed to it in advance of ordering.
So, bottom line, having cash doesn't mean someone has to accept it, until you actually owe them money, and when that is depends on the circumstances.
It doesn't mean what most people think it means.
Thanks. Is there some court case that says that, or is it just that private enterprise businesses have established it without legal challenge?
Thanks. Is there some court case that says that, or is it just that private enterprise businesses have established it without legal challenge?
Here is what the Federal Reserve says:
Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."
This statute means that all United States money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law which says otherwise.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm
Similar at US Treasury:
https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx
I have seen references to court cases along these lines, but I don't have access to WestLaw or similar here at home to check.
If I set out today with ample cash ("good for all debts") to travel all the way across the U.S. on a blue highway (say U.S. 50 - I think it still goes from coast to coast) and I did NOT want to a credit card, bank card, cash card or any of those similar things to help establish ID and assure others I can pay, is it doable?
Yes, it's doable. You will have to go in and pre-pay for your gas, and you can stay at places such as campgrounds or non-chain motels where cash is still accepted. You could probably just hop on I-80 or I-10 if you wanted to go from coast to coast, instead of the US highway system. Get there faster, without going through all the little towns and their stoplights.
When I was younger, and the interstate system was still under construction, I've done the US 41 route from near Chicago down to Florida route. Driving straight through it still took a solid 24 hours. Doing the I-65 / I-75 trip later on in life, it's 17 hours with pee stops.
Try getting a room without identification. It's not so much about payment as it is tracking.
I travel a lot between different countries. I cannot recall not producing my passport to register for a room. I have it with me whenever I check in to any hotel, but I guess if I was travelling inside my home country I'd produce my drivers licence instead.
I don't think credit cards are needed for identification. I have had to pay for hotel rooms with a credit card on occasions to avoid lodging a large deposit.
My main reason for using credit cards when travelling between countries is that transaction costs with money changers end up more expensive than withdrawing substantial lumps of local cash from an ATM than using money changers. I don't bother converting currencies back when leaving a country. I keep ant leftover cash until I next return to the country. I have quite a collection of currencies in my passport holder.
Try getting a room without identification. It's not so much about payment as it is tracking.
From the business end, it is about payment, and having a means to pay for any "additional expenses" incurred after booking the room.
Hotels might allow a cash deposit, but you're probably going to need a manager sign off, and a rather hefty cash-down deposit that you won't get back until after room service has cleared the room.
But most hotels, and their management, aren't going to consider the extra steps to be "worth their time." That is in addition to the whole concern about why you want the transaction to be all cash in the first place.
From the government end, yes, there is a very strong incentive to "digitize" the currency as that makes it far easier for them to track moving from one hand to another. And the credit card these days is little more than a proxy for digital currency.
I'm thinking it wouldn't be too hard. Take the bicycle so fuel isn't an issue (after hours gas in places is credit card only.) A tent so lodging it's an issue - most campgrounds still take cash and there's always camping rough if needs be. Restaurants aren't an issue. I wonder if the ticket counter at the airport would freak out if you handed them cash?
I personally wouldn't bother but if someone was obsessed that way then it should be doable.
I was surprised about two weeks ago when I tried to pay for parking in Seattle at the AGC building on Lake Union, which is where the Museum of History and Industry tell you to park (it is a very long walk). The guy at the parking lot insisted on a credit card, for a $6 parking fee. I tried to pay cash, but it was declined vehemently, without thanks. Cash is on the way out, in Seattle.
Is is possible these days to travel without a credit card?
Yes.
Can you, for example, reserve a hotel room or even check in at a motel or hotel with only cash?
Reserve, no, check in, yes. (But no use of room service etc)
How much cash would you have to put up for a $200-a-day room?
If for whatever reason you want to pay only in cash, why would you want a $200-a-day room? No, you stay away from chain hotels and use Guest Houses, B&B and private (non chain) hotels.
As an aside, have you calculated how much cash you would need to carry for your proposed trip? No cards means no ATM, so you best use some to buy a gun and hope you don't get robbed.
No cards means no ATM
You are ignoring the original question, it was: Is is possible these days to travel without a credit card?.
A bank card is not a credit card so your "no ATM" is simply incorrect.
A bank card is not a credit card so your "no ATM" is simply incorrect.
I think we now run into some terminology cross over here.
Here in Australia one of the first common use credit cards was called Bankcard and that was the name of the credit card company working through multiple banks.
Today we have Credit Cards - eg Amex, Visa, Mastercard - where they send you an account of charges for the month at the end of the month and you pay it as they give you a line of credit. The spending is limited to your approved credit limit.
We also have Debit Cards - eg Visa, Mastercard, Redicard - where they debit they immediately debit the charge against you bank balance. The spending is limited to how much you have in the linked bank account.
With both of the above the transactions can be tracked through the banking system in real time. Also, in both they have your real life information readily available.
There is a 3 rd option that many organizations hate - Prepaid Debit Card where you put whatever cash you want into the bank without a name and it works exactly like a debit card, but it has no personal information linked to you with it and while the exact card number and bank account can be tracked once it's known, they have major issues linking it to you. Most of these have low maximum deposit amounts on them so the criminals can't easily use them for criminal proceeds.
I know someone who has four Prepaid Debit Cards issued in 4 cities they carry about for emergencies. I think they just have them so they can't be easily tracked while doing certain things. I can't see why you would need 4 of them.
There is a 3 rd option that many organizations hate - Prepaid Debit Card where you put whatever cash you want into the bank without a name and it works exactly like a debit card, but it has no personal information linked to you with it and while the exact card number and bank account can be tracked once it's known, they have major issues linking it to you. Most of these have low maximum deposit amounts on them so the criminals can't easily use them for criminal proceeds.
I have to totally disagree with this statement. Yes you can get a pre-paid credit card. However, you have to activate it using your name address and SSN. So your not off grid with a pre-paid card either.
I have to totally disagree with this statement. Yes you can get a pre-paid credit card. However, you have to activate it using your name address and SSN. So your not off grid with a pre-paid card either.
That must be a US thing because that's not the case here. Or it may relate to very high value cards only. Not used high value ones, only the $1,000 limit ones.
That must be a US thing because that's not the case here.
Either that or it's a very recent thing. I bought one in the US years ago to help my mom with gas expenses. No name, address or SSN required.
@Ernest Bywater and @Dominions Son
it was five years or so ago bought a Walgreens. It was reloadable $500 at a time, no upper limit. It was also the same for a Walmart card.
Take the card up to the register, pay for the Card and add cash to card. then call the number on the back give your info and the card is activated then and there.
Take the card up to the register, pay for the Card and add cash to card. then call the number on the back give your info and the card is activated then and there.
Sounds like it may have been a company card. Here you find the cards available at the relevant outlet, they're usually held at the register in a locked cabinet, you pay for the card as it's the card value and a small fee, and they scan the card, activate it, and give it to you. No details required, and none available to them unless you pay for it with another card, then that will show in the sale.
A bank card is not a credit card so your "no ATM" is simply incorrect.
Is what you call a 'bank card' what I call a 'debit card', i.e. functions like a credit card except that transactions are rejected if they may result in a negative balance?
If so, I've never had any hassles living with only bank cards for more than a dozen years, and I've done enough travel in that time to be close to filling my second passport.
You are ignoring the original question, it was: Is is possible these days to travel without a credit card?.
A bank card is not a credit card so your "no ATM" is simply incorrect.
Actually I'm NOT ignoring the original question as the OP clarified in further posts as follows;
"Have we really come to the point where we all MUST carry credit cards (or some similar thing, such as a cash card or a bank card)."
why would you want a $200-a-day room?
The point wasn't the cost of the room but the amount of the deposit necessary. I don't care whether the example is a $10-a-day room or a $1,000-a-day room. Is there some ratio of the amount of deposit needed compared to the price of the room?
Is there some ratio of the amount of deposit needed compared to the price of the room?
The last time I visited Australia I stayed in one of the cheapest motels in the city. IIRC, a single room at the backpackers had a regular price of $75, and I got an off-season discount somewhere with a regular price of $90.
I attempted to pay with my bank card (debit card) but it was rejected - I think because the previous time I had used the card was in another country.
The motel wanted a $500 security deposit if I paid with cash!
I managed to withdraw over $500 cash from an ATM - I think that was OK because ATMs have CCTV cameras. I tried to pay with the bank card again after that and it was approved.
I think there's no set ratio for motel chains but assume it's a LOT!
Is there some ratio of the amount of deposit needed compared to the price of the room?
No. The chain hotels often have an "in house" set amount, but there is no standard amount.
That is why I suggested staying away from the chains and using only the small private hotels, B&B etc who will take your cash and wish you a pleasant stay.
have you calculated how much cash you would need to carry for your proposed trip?
First, trying to determine whether such a trip is even possible. If I want to pay for a summer cross-country trip for my offspring (and a friend, both of whom would be starting college in the fall), and want them to try to duplicate what it was like to travel in the U.S. before there were interstate highways or credit cards or ATMs or bank cards or Holiday Inns, is it doable? so, how much cash would be needed for a one-month trip? If your point is that today America and its gun culture is so unsafe that they cannot safely make such a trip without driving a tank or being guarded by an Army, to me that means duplicating the earlier trip is impossible. To others, it might mean such a trip would be a delight because they'd get to shoot other people. I appreciate the idea of staying away from chain hotels, etc., because those weren't widespread before Interstate highways, when many people stayed in what were then called "tourist homes," which I guess are pretty similar to today's B&B establishments.
want them to try to duplicate what it was like to travel in the U.S. before there were interstate highways or credit cards or ATMs or bank cards or Holiday Inns, is it doable?
Whole new can of worms.
Two young people traveling across the US without cards of any flavour, avoiding interstate highways. Sounds like a wonderful adventure to me.
However, that requires them carrying large amounts of cash, whilst I'm not suggesting they need a gun, they certainly risk attracting attention, it would be all to easy for someone to overhear a couple of comments, put two and two together and hey presto, rob them, either forcing them to hand over money or robbing their room, car, bags etc
So, whilst the experience of the trip you propose would no doubt be a wonderful adventure, the reality could well be far less enjoyable.
If you do go ahead, perhaps agree an itinerary and prepay the hotels etc in advance, leaving them only food and fuel to pay in cash, less to carry and if the worst happens they at least have somewhere to stay.
Having said that a friend crossed the US coast to coast before going to Uni, with just over $500 a backpack and a thumb to hitchhike. She enjoyed it very much, was spoilt, scared stiff, lost and propositioned, but has enough stories to last a very long time.
So yes, it is possible, but 'caveat emptor' so to speak.
Having said that a friend crossed the US coast to coast before going to Uni, with just over $500 a backpack and a thumb to hitchhike.
In my young and very stupid days I arrived in Perth, after flying from Singapore, and had less than $3 after I converted the cash I had back into Australian dollars.
The nearest person I knew who might allow me to sleep at their house lived in Port Pirie, about 2,500 kilometers away!
I hitchhiked there and arrived a couple of days later with about $10 in my pocket.
I understand that if you drive around with "too much" cash in the US, the police can - at their discretion - assume it's for drug deals / general "naughty things" and confiscate it. It is possible to get it back, but the process is extremely fraught.
For me that kind of behaviour is what the right-to-bear-arms-against-tyranny amendment is for but I understand that opinion is not necessarily shared by the legal establishment.
I understand that if you drive around with "too much" cash in the US, the police can - at their discretion - assume it's for drug deals / general "naughty things" and confiscate it. It is possible to get it back, but the process is extremely fraught.
For me that kind of behaviour is what the right-to-bear-arms-against-tyranny amendment is for but I understand that opinion is not necessarily shared by the legal establishment.
"Land of the free and the home of the brave"
Almost makes you get all patriotic, well except I always picture a (Native American) Indian Brave, no idea why, just seems apt.
I appreciate the idea of staying away from chain hotels, etc., because those weren't widespread before Interstate highways, when many people stayed in what were then called "tourist homes," which I guess are pretty similar to today's B&B establishments.
I never heard of "tourist homes," but they had hotels way back in the Old West days. Not chain hotels, though.
A tourist home was exactly what it sounds like - primarily someone's family home with a simple sign in the front yard that said "tourist home." They'd rent strangers a bedroom for the night. I don't know whether they wanted payment up front. A simple breakfast with the family was usually included with the room. I remember staying in a tourist home in Washington DC (I walked from there to the Capitol and watched the colored lights shine in the fountains), in Niagara Falls (don't remember whether we were in US or Canada), in Welch, West Virginia (the heart of coal-mining country), in Gatlinburg, Tennessee and in New Orleans, all in the early 1950s. My family had little money to spare, so I assume all those places were inexpensive, and maybe we stayed in them as an alternative to more expensive hotels. We never once stayed in a hotel. We mostly ate the food my mother prepared before we left home and which she packed in a basket. I remember stopping at frequent "roadside tables" along the highways and where you could find a place to wander off into the woods for relief. Nobody in our family ever mentioned a gun or danger (except when we encountered frequent "Danger • Detour Ahead" signs.) Those were the days when you hoped, between small towns and their red lights, you could try to maintain a 50mph speed, but it rarely happened, even though most states at the time did not have statewide speed limits.
You're still behind, but only because the merchant is often legally prohibited from giving a discount to cash only customers.
As the CC fees have now been baked in as a cost of doing business prices are several percentage points higher because that's the take-away for the bank, not the merchant. The merchant only "wins" when somebody pays cash.
In either case, you may have picked up your 2% "cash back" but in order to do so, you paid $2.00 for something that should have cost maybe $1.75 absent the CC fees. But that's the unfair comparison because of the "transaction fee" being most penalizing on small transactions. It still stands however when we get to your $300 purchase at a hardware store, where absent those fees, they would be asking $285.00 instead. Sure you got $6 "back" from your CC company, but you paid a $15 premium for that "opportunity" to be rewarded with your own money.
You're still behind
The merchant was going to charge me that price anyway because, as you say, the cc costs are built into the price. So if I paid cash, I'd still pay that amount without getting the 2% back. Only the merchant wins.
If you pick the right cc, you also make out when using it with foreign currency. With the right cc, the conversion rates are more favorable than a bank or ATM. And I don't come home with 3 euros in coins that I can't convert back to US dollars. So that cute t-shirt I bought for my great-grandson actually cost me $3.50 more. Now if you choose the wrong cc company, you're gonna get screwed with fees.
The merchant was going to charge me that price anyway because, as you say, the cc costs are built into the price. So if I paid cash, I'd still pay that amount without getting the 2% back. Only the merchant wins.
I've tried asking merchants, "how much if I pay cash?" Many of them offer me a price that gives me a full discount equal to everything they have to pay the credit card company, saying they still get an extra benefit because they don't have to wait for the credit card company to reimburse them. Others have offered a discount, but not the full amount. If either or both of us are breaking the law when I ask for and they offer a discount, not one of them has ever invoked the law in refusing my request. My spouse, who has worked in retail and is very familiar with the fees they pay credit card companies, refuses to use a credit card at a small retail store and refuses to ask for a discount, because either would damage the business of a small retail store already struggling to succeed. She's less inclined to do the same for the chains and big stores.
I've tried asking merchants, "how much if I pay cash?" Many of them offer me a price that gives me a full discount equal to everything they have to pay the credit card company, saying they still get an extra benefit because they don't have to wait for the credit card company to reimburse them. Others have offered a discount, but not the full amount. If either or both of us are breaking the law when I ask for and they offer a discount, not one of them has ever invoked the law in refusing my request.
"Most states" should probably read: "States in which most people live" and IIRC, specifically included New York and California, among others.
Terms and conditions for having the point of sale service/terminal probably also restrict many if not most vendors. Which isn't to say they're not game for skirting the rules. Also a discount which is asked for, vs one that is advertised(or offered up front) gets slightly different handling I suspect. Not being privy to the specifics of those contracts, can't say. (Edit: Also helps if they're a business with a history of haggling over prices)
Needless to say, depending on where they are, they could get into a heap of trouble if caught. But most small companies are unlikely to be--not worth going after.
"States in which most people live" and IIRC, specifically included New York and California, among others.
Meaning "the most populous states"? or something different?
Meaning "the most populous states"? or something different?
Something different. Seems there are two types of States;
"States in which most people live"
And States in which most people die.
To easily identify which is which, only one type has zombies and/or reincarnation for each and every resident.
It should be noted, that until the US manages to abolish Civil Asset Forfeiture, traveling in the US with a large ammount of cash is dangerous.
If you have any interactions with the police an they find out you have more than a few hundred in cash on you, they are likely to presume that you are a drug dealer and seize the cash for forfeiture.
In most states (until the last couple of years in all of them) and at the federal level, they don't even have to file charges against to to take your cash.
They file suit against the cash itself (which has no rights) and then you have to sue to get it back, but you don't have a right to a government provided lawyer in a civil proceeding, and the cash having no rights is presumed guilty and you have to prove that you got it legally.
Civil Asset Forfeiture is a travesty of justice - which America inherited from the British.
IMO, the founders wrote protection against such practices (at the time, invoking the British practice of grabbing ships and its contents) in the Constitution. But many federal government administrations, both Republican-led and Democratic-led, have used the practice, and, in general, with some limitations, the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld it.
Starting in the mid 1980s, the feds began sharing the loot with states and localities, who themselves began increasing their uses of it.
It is misdirection to warn specifically against the practice with regard to travel without including other uses of the law. They can take any of your property - including real estate, cars, horses, jewelry, or family photographs, on a mere stated suspicion, without proof, with it having nothing to do with travel.
Some local and state authorities have been accused of using such forfeitures to finance their activities when their local governments had refused to appropriate the funds they thought their departments deserved.
Civil Asset Forfeiture is a travesty of justice - which America inherited from the British.
IMO, the founders wrote protection against such practices (at the time, invoking the British practice of grabbing ships and its contents) in the Constitution.
I'll agree with the "travesty" but I'm not sure about the "but they started it". I know the British - along with other naval powers - used it in wartime, against direct enemies and their allies. I don't know how much further they went. Argon's most recent story https://storiesonline.net/s/17041/the-return-of-thomas-grey is written around the practice.
From what I have heard of the practice, it falls legally under "highway robbery".
I know you specifically said rent a hotel room but I know for certain that in the U.S. you cannot rent a car without a credit card, as I tried to rent one with only my debit card at the airport and was told you can pay with a debit card at the other end but you must use a credit card to rent the car. I'm not sure why as the merchant fee is less for a debit card than a credit card.
I'm not sure why as the merchant fee is less for a debit card than a credit card.
I think it may be that a debit card is legally only valid for the payment of a known debt of an exact amount, while a credit card can be used to make a future payment against an unknown amount.
Well, further reading of your link lists States that explicitly allow for "cash discounts" and California among others is on both lists. Weird tangled legalistic mess. Can't call it a surcharge for doing ____ but you can offer a discount for using ____ instead, even if the result is functionally the same.
