The Navy refers to a ship as "she," and when was in grammar school decades ago is what I was taught. Somebody told me the AP stylebook, since the mid-70s, directs reporters to use "it" instead of "she" for ships.
To me,logically, "it" makes more sense. What do you use?
I'm old school, so I say/type "she" for a ship's name, even if the ship's name refers to a man...
Reportedly, Russians use HE/HIM for ships. So I would as well, for a Russian speaker/raised in the culture.
I almost made some random comment about transgenders and pronouns, but I decided not to. 😄
I agree with Argon's post. Authors need to decide things like that instead of letting some style guide or blog writer dictate their word choices. Trying to write like another person tells you to, is not comfortable. You need to decide what is appropriate for your story, and right or wrong, write it the way you think it should be written.
I don't write about ships much. That said, it would depend on context.
If it was an article intended for a maritime industry audience or a fictional story centered on the ship's crew I would follow maritime conventions and use 'she'.
For an article aimed at the general population or a fictional story involving non maritime people discussing a ship I would probably use 'it'.
And in a mixed story, characters in maritime related careers should follow maritime conventions, others would not.
Use whichever usage either YOU'RE more familiar with or which best fits the story. Traditionally, the feminine "she" was used since then vessel 'housed and protected' the sailors (supposedly), rather than a sign of physical power and aggression, though the Russians apparently have a different perspective on that. Yet "it" is entirely too impersonal, as if the ship was some unknown alien monster, in which case the most appropriate pronoun would be "them", as it's an indefinite pronoun, designed for such uses.
And for sci-fi, again pick whatever best fits the story itself, as you're inventing the entire culture on the fly anyway. ;)
Eh, with sci-fi, it's particularly true. It is for most, yet there's really nothing preventing you from stretching any and all limits. Aside from my typical 'grounding' and the related 'believability' issues. Yet that's another story entirely. ;)
characters in maritime related careers should follow maritime conventions, others would not.
I tend to agree for many short conversations.
There is a conversational technique used to bond with the person you are talking with. Namely, use the same terms the other person uses if you are familiar with the terms and their usage. The other person will be more receptive hearing their words reflected back to them in your reply.
The technique can even help to take the sting out of you disagreeing with the other person by showing a common foundation; then it is just different opinions and less likely that the other person believes you are telling them they are wrong.
When I was in the Marine Corps, a very long time ago, we were taught that friendly ships were "she," and enemy ships were "he."
That makes sense, yet with a family serving in both the Navy and Marines (I planned too, yet Type-1 diabetes at 16 ended that pipe dream), I NEVER once heard that usage—living at military housing at the time too. So it sounds good, yet it's highly unlikely—as in EXTREMELY so.
Generally, the sex of an object is decided by the sex of the owner.
Males tend to refer to objects as feminine, whereas women tend to refer to them as being masculine. Generally speaking.
I think the whole ships are female thing came about because the owners are/were almost exclusively male.
You can see it in families, where the men tend to name things (like the car/boat/barbecue/etc) as female, and women tend to name the items they own, as male (like Henry the vacuum etc).
The non-PC reasoning I was taught in the US Navy was ships were called "she" because they used so much powder and so much paint (i.e. makeup).
Your milage may vary :-)
Answer from grammar:
In Old English, the word for 'boat' is 'bōt', which is a feminine noun.
In Latin, the word for 'boat' is 'navis', which is a feminine noun.
To me, that's sufficient to explain it for English speakers. I am also very happy neo-modern English is un-gendered, except for pronouns (and a few nouns people still inflect, such as actor/actress, but those are falling away quickly, although I still tend to use them).
As long as they're still issuing "Best Actress" Oscar awards, I'm more than happy with the term, as the roles are significantly different. Thus, you can say "She's a wonderful actor," but you'd also say, "The lead actress in that film was positively divine!"
When there's a distinction in the roles, you emphasize the distinction, when there's not, you don't. So it's somewhat like comparing James Bond with Peter Pan roles over the years.
I would use 'actress' in both examples you gave. I would never say "She is a wonderful actor". It just sounds wrong to my ears.
I would never say "She is a wonderful actor".
For what it's worth, Google shows plenty of occurrences of people saying exactly that.
I'm uncomfortable with it too, since the feminine 'actress' is so firmly established. I don't feel so uncomfortable saying, "She's a wonderful fisherman," or, "She's a wonderful fireman."
AJ
I'm uncomfortable with it too, since the feminine 'actress' is so firmly established. I don't feel so uncomfortable saying, "She's a wonderful fisherman," or, "She's a wonderful fireman."
"Ms. Midshipwoman Harrington", a novelette by David Weber, comes to mind.
BTW, actor – actress, tiger – tigress, what could be the female form for teacher? teachress, teacheress?
Or similar to reporter – reporterette (used by some MCs in oyster50's Smart Girls universe).
HM.
Technically, a reporterette is merely a 'small' (i.e. young) reporter, such as a grade-school vs. a high-school reporter. Thus it's not the same as a majorette (ex: a drum-majorette).
But again, it ain't no skin off my neck if you're as sexist as you wanna be. Have fun with it, yet just as not every woman is a 'smoking hot babe', not every woman is an -ette. Some are just who they are, no labels required.
After all, there's no nationwide gender purge, as it's mostly based on individual demands (i.e. equal rights, for both fatties and cuties. Somethings just aren't worth specifying.
"Ms. Midshipwoman Harrington", a novelette by David Weber, comes to mind.
That was a deliberate creation by David, to show changes in the future societies. Today, at the US Naval Academy, Midshipman is a rank, and applies to both male and female mids.
what could be the female form for teacher?
Is there a need for a feminine form, other than to appease the sensibilities of the wokerrati?
AJ
The feminine form of teacher is either "female teacher" or "damn nice!", though the second could equally apply to male teachers too.
For what it's worth, Google shows plenty of occurrences of people saying exactly that.
I am well aware. I disagree with that usage.
Actor is generic, whereas "actress", "heartthrob" and "smoking hot babe" are gender specific. It's similar to the pronouns "he", "she" and "they". So ahead, why diminish an actress just because she's female? They're either qualified or not, we may prefer the hotties, yet it really has little bearing on the quality of their work.
So, what did you think of the various Lassies, as they were mostly males, as females are easier to control, whereas males tends to be overly aggressive on movie sets. A name isn't always what we think it is.
Actor is generic,
I disagree. I would use 'actors and actresses' if I needed to refer to a mixed-gender group.
So ahead, why diminish an actress just because she's female? They're either qualified or not, we may prefer the hotties, yet it really has little bearing on the quality of their work.
You love your non-squitters. Using 'actress' has ZERO to do with her beauty (which is in the eye of the beholder), and it does not diminish her in any way.
So, what did you think of the various Lassies, as they were mostly males, as females are easier to control, whereas males tends to be overly aggressive on movie sets. A name isn't always what we think it is.
Completely irrelevant to this discussion. All actors at the Globe Theatre were male, which has zero to do with the part they were playing. That's why it's called 'acting'.
I didn't mean 'genetic' in terms of mixed-gender, again the indefinite pronoun is "they". I meant it's generic as in, not specific to the person. Thus "she's as qualified an actor as he is". It also has nothing to do with 'liberal' governmental trends.
Thus "she's as qualified an actor as he is". It also has nothing to do with 'liberal' governmental trends.
Non-sequiter AGAIN. I didn't make this claim or anything like it. Seriously, get a grip.
Once more — I do not use 'actor' as a generic term. I would use 'actor or actress' as in 'The actors and actresses in the film were all miscast.'
That's part of my style guide, including using the 'ess' forms of words that have long-ago lost them and been genericized.
Here in the USA, we no longer have Mailmen. We have Letter Carriers. Amazing what the government has gone through to remove gender labels.
Here in the USA, we no longer have Mailmen. We have Letter Carriers. Amazing what the government has gone through to remove gender labels.
Old English was highly inflected, and most of the inflections have been lost. What remains are pronouns and some professions. The arrival of the Vikings led to the near eradication of gender-related terms in the English language.
Some examples of ones still used are actor/actress, steward/stewardess, shepherd/shepherdess.
An example of one that was lost is baker/baxter, which would have been used during the Middle English period.
I've heard this before, but it's wrong. The words "baker" and "baxter" were used in different parts of England to refer to the same profession. The "-ster" ending was not specific to women; consider "teamsters."
I've heard this before, but it's wrong. The words "baker" and "baxter" were used in different parts of England to refer to the same profession. The "-ster" ending was not specific to women; consider "teamsters."
I believe you're confusing 'bakester' and 'baxter'.
Old English 'bæcestre', feminine of 'bæcere' ('baker').
Here in the USA, we no longer have Mailmen. We have Letter Carriers.
That's probably because the UK put a 100% tariff on the use of the word 'postie'. :-)
AJ
For me the most logical would be to select the pronoun according to the ship's name:
Queen Mary: she
Harry S. Truman: he
Invincible": it
However one can argue to use the reverse for ships named after persons to easily distinguish who is meant – the human or the ship:
Harry S. Truman – he, the 33rd president;
Harry S. Truman – she, the aircraft carrier;
Generally using it will avoid misunderstandings, after all it's a machine, not a person.
HM.
Back in Amelia Earhart's day, she was an "aviatrix..."
I met plenty of female pilots at my last job, and the word used was "aviator," whether the pilot was male or female...