Forum: Author Hangout

Most schools do not allow students to carry pepper spray, although legality varies state by state (I can't think of any school that wouldn't suspend a student for carrying it)

I have no idea on time. I guess it depends on how organized the purse is.

It can be crippling, although I have seen video of people continuing their attack in spite of being sprayed. Having been sprayed in a training thing, I can say it's really really awful. Destroyed me.

It is generally non-lethal, baring a medical condition. Very bad asthma, for instance might end up fatal when combined, but that's situational. Its generally safe to assume it's non-lethal.

As a side note, I've seen plenty of people, in person and in video, get caught in their own spray. The wind can screw you. Also, doing it indoors, especially in an enclosed space, is bad for everyone, including the sprayer.

many look like keyring and I've heard of some small ones that have cases that look like cheap jewellery so a woman can wear them as a long necklace. I even found a pick of one that looks like a lipstick on qvc.com and one that looks like a small purse perfume bottle at wish.com

CS/Tear Gas (also a Powder form) is an irritant that effects eyes/vision, the mucus membranes (often snot/drool will run down your face), and lungs causing difficulty breathing, and irritates the skin (burning sensation). CS/Tear Gas does not adhere to clothing or skin as much as "pepper spray" typically does. (the Powder form of CS does adhere to cloth, sometimes skin, and in higher concentrations may remain on surfaces and may be "stirred up again by movement or breezes)

As a Nasty Trick we would use (plastic) "cans" of CS powder and carefully pour it onto trails (sometimes into wheel ruts on vehicle routes); it was particularly effective upon the sandy soil of Fort Bragg. This tactic worked best against units that were tactically proficient enough to maintain distance between members of their Recon units, and between the Recon/Advanced Guard and the Main Body; because they would stay out of the Dust of each other, thus not detect the CS powder. However, the Main Body by doctrine and necessity travel closer together. The lead personnel on foot (or vehicles) would not usually be effected (almost always including the commanding officer). Nearly everyone in the dust cloud would become increasingly uncomfortable, often presuming it was the "dust" and only gradually noticing the symptoms of CS/"Tear Gas"...

Then we would Execute ("spring") the Ambush! Chaos ensues! Some soldiers would run off, others would try to put on their Protective Masks ("gas masks") often with tears and snot running down their face... It was very difficult to fight back, coordination was nearly impossible! Often the Commander would be bewildered why he couldn't understand his subordinates radio transmissions or yelling and why his "well-trained" unit was a mass of panicking and unresponsive individuals.

{Safety regulations discouraged us from applying this tactic against mounted (vehicles) units. Crashes, although "low speed" were common. Abandoning running vehicles, without setting the brake or chock blocks was frequent too!}

Capstun (tm) and other "Pepper Sprays" almost all have "essence"/oils of cayenne and other "Hot" Peppers as a primary ingredient. It tends to be "oily" and may adhere to skin (eyeballs), clothing, etc. More people are more seriously effected by Pepper Sprays than by CS/"Tear Gas"

(Perhaps 10% of people are "immune" or minimally effected by CS gas. Fewer people are resistant to pepper sprays.)

Adrenalin, and/or some drugs may increase resistance to the effects of pepper sprays (and CS). Determined individuals may continue attacking, or other undesired actions; although nearly all will have blurred vision and difficulty breathing.

Most pepper sprays (and "Bear sprays") are under pressure and will "shoot" 3 to 5 meters or more (often in a narrow stream). "Splash Back" inside a vehicle or other confined space; or from a close target is likely to be problematical. Users should close their eyes and hold their breath just before discharging. In a school (or similar) hallway or classroom, as long as the target is more than five feet ~1.6 meters away the user should be okay.

Some pepper spray projectors spray a "mist" or "cone" while more likely to hit a close target; it is nearly certain to also effect the user.

While it is possible to shoot a stream of pepper spray between several people and only strike a target, preferably a meter/3 feet from innocent bystanders; using pepper spray in a crowd is likely to result in collateral casualties! Discharging pepper spray aboard a Commerical Airliner is a Federal Offense. (It is possible but unlikely that a pepper spray dispenser could discharge due to pressure changes aboard an aircraft.)

Capstun and many other pepper sprays (and bear sprays) are typically several times more powerful than "tear gas" The first time I saw pepper spray used I was one the other side of a "bulletproof / soundproof" glass when an illegal border crosser suddenly assaulted a Border Patrol officer. It appeared to me that the officer Shot (his pistol) because the assaulter "folded up" and collapsed to the ground (the posture of the officer was very similar to having "snap-drawn and shot" a pistol; the spray/stream, without sound, appeared similar to a pistol discharge.)

People I know who are federal or local LEOs (Law Enforcement Officers) are nearly unanimous that Pepper Spray is significantly (or even several times) more effective than CS/"Tear Gas" and they have been exposed to both. Typically, LEOs must be sprayed with pepper spray as part of their training. I am grateful my brief stint as an LEO was before That requirement!

Some of this depends on whether you're setting in the present day or in the past. Laws can be quirky.

For instance, in Illinois around 1990, pepper spray was completely legal almost everywhere except on college campuses. It was a felony (seriously - not a misdemeanor) to carry it on college campuses.

Why, you might ask? Because the legislature got rid of the felony prohibition of pepper spray on state property but missed the party they'd added to cover college campuses.

I have no idea if they ever fixed that. I'd have to hope that they did.

To the best of my knowledge, it was never prosecuted (but I didn't study it in detail). It would've looked very bad to prosecute a student for carrying (nearly always) non-lethal self-defense spray on a campus (where crime may - or may not - be low, but is always a risk).

Similarly, 'zero tolerance' policies only apply if you're in a time period where they exist, obviously :) My characters would handle things differently if they were in those times (quite a number of my characters carry 'bear spray').

Way back in the days of the dinosaurs known as the mid 1970s I knew a nurse who lived in the hospital provided accommodation near the hospital in a suburb that was more known for the violence and crime there than anything else. She had one of those little purse perfume sprayers many women owned and carried, this was clipped just inside the top of a pocket on the outside of the bag she carried on a long strap over her shoulder. She also had another perfume spray in the purse itself. Well, one day I asked her about the two perfume bottle, and she smiled when she lifted the outer one and sprayed a nearby section of wall. All I could smell was the worst overpowering stench of Lavender I ever smelled. Then she told me it was a mix of extremely cheap and terrible lavender extract with mentholated spirits and rubbing alcohol, and, in her own words, "It stinks like crazy and stings like hell if you get it in your eyes, nose, or mouth, and on your skin it stings a bit too." - this was way back before pepper spray was readily available or even had laws being made about it.

You may want to consider arming your protagonist with a similar mix, as I'm sure it wouldn't violate any current laws. Also, I suspect cheap moonshine could be wasted in a similar way to good effect if sprayed in the eyes.

edit to add: I always figured the strong lavender smell would also help the police in finding the person sprayed. At a minimum it would sure get them ridiculed by their mates.

In the 60's my cousin worked in a drug store in a small town in North Carolina that he commuted to by bicycle. Dogs were a big problem as they would literally run him down on his bike. He solved the problem by filling a plastic water pistol with household ammonia. One squirt of that and the dogs lost interest in the chase. Today's water pistols in my experience wouldn't work as well as most of them leak more than they squirt.

For use in a story, what are the pros and cons of using pepper spray as a defensive measure.

Well, it would depend on a lot of other things also.

Now there are many forms of "chemical defenses", including mace, pepper spray, tear gas, and many many others. And one thing that has to be remembered is that with enough exposure, people can learn to ignore the results of it.

Case in point, in my over 2 decades in the military I trained with mace, pepper spray, and military level tear gas. All of which came to be an advantage years later when I was doing security, and somebody I was trying to arrest hit me in the face with regular civilian grade pepper spray.

And I was largely able to ignore it, and still get her in handcuffs. Sure it burned, but over the years I had learned to simply ignore the burn. Like a long distance runner learning to run through the pain.

Against animals it is great, as they have no experience like that and it incapacitates them. But a person, be careful as you never know the background of who you are using it against.

And also, many drugs will also allow a person to ignore even police or military grade sprays.

Here's an excerpt from Chapter Eight of one of my little stories -- "Hide & Seek".

I threaded my way between tables and peeked through the little diamond-shaped window to make sure I wouldn't collide with someone pushing a cart. Inside it was cleanup time. One young Latino was spraying off plates and sliding them into an industrial dishwasher. An even younger one was hand-scrubbing a large copper pan. Both wore hairnets.

A 30-something woman, Suzette I assumed, was untying her full-length apron as she sorted through a stack of lunch orders. My guy, the oldest in the room, had just finished caramelizing three ramekins of crème brûlée.

I said, "Excuse me, are you Pedro Morales?"

He turned, a little surprised, and nodded uncertainly. He fit the vague description — slender, just a little taller than me, Latino of course.

"Do you know Sabbath Louise Armstrong?"

He gasped, "COÑO!" and lunged for the little blowtorch. I leaped back and grabbed my pepper-spray — drawing it and aiming it and spraying it, all in one motion. It reached Morales just as his torch lit up. The flame ignited the spray with a giant WOOSH! and the ball of fire instantly engulfed his head.

Morales screamed in shock and horror as his face started melting, his hair started burning.

The instant he yelled at me, time had slowed down. I had seen everything unfold with an almost stately clarity. I hadn't panicked, I had reacted instantly. Didn't fumble, didn't hesitate. Experience. And, all those self-defense lessons.

The second the flame erupted, Suzette, moving swiftly, grabbed a fire extinguisher and gushed foam all over Morales. She pivoted to me in one motion and sprayed me in the face.

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Paige

As someone who is CERTIFIED and carries pepper spray all the time, and has used it on several occasions, let me answer your questions as asked.

1) Human spray is less than effective on animals.
There is "HALT" for dogs, and bear spray for … well… Bears.

2) Pepper spray is considered a weapon in almost every liberal controlled area of the world.
Kids under 18 are 100% prohibited from carrying it.

3) The effectiveness is subjective.
Depends on how much is delivered, body location sprayed, and the persons natural sensitivity.
The chemically altered are also many times immune.

I would recommend at minimum that anyone writing about weapons, lethal and non-lethal, at least go watch some youtube videos and learn the facts and myths.