Forum: Story Recommendations

What If?

PotomacBob 🚫

What if there had been no American War of Independence?
What if the South had won the Civil War?
What if Charles Lindberg had defeated FDR in the election prior to WWII.
Are there stories on SOL that you would recommend in which some key fact of actual history was changed to something different? The three "what ifs" I listed have been done in dead-tree books. A glance at the "alternate history" list on SOL seems to show that most of them are set in the future and the description does not indicate what, if any, historical fact might have been changed.
Any recommendations?

Replies: Dinsdale Gauthier Michael Loucks helmut_meukel helmut_meukel helmut_meukel helmut_meukel Nizzgrrl Radagast Radagast AmigaClone helmut_meukel samuelmichaels itsmehonest DBActive soccercoachguru

Dinsdale 🚫

@PotomacBob

The second one is in https://storiesonline.net/s/12561/going-down-by-gary-jordan - a story I'm pretty sure I read over 10 years ago.

Bruce Bretthauer had a bunch of "Paratime" stories on GMW's site and some of them were set in the late 1800s in "New Essex" in a past where the British had beaten Washington's rebels. "Counterfeit Line" was the first, "Body of Evidence" and "Different World" the others. I don't know if they are to be found anywhere else but they never made it here.

Replies: madnige

madnige 🚫
Updated:

@Dinsdale

I don't know if they are to be found anywhere else but they never made it here.

Still available on BtFH, Bruce Bretthauer's Counterfeit Line, Different World and Body of Evidence (in that order) throw a present-day small-town detective into turn-of-last-century America where the War of Independence never happened.

ETA: the Marge Bergeron stories were withdrawn for publication, but IIRC only the New Essex stories put much meat into exploring the impact of changes that caused the timeline to branch, more into cross-time police work to prevent the exploitation of the alternates.

Replies: Dinsdale

Dinsdale 🚫

@madnige

BtFH = GMW's site

Replies: madnige

madnige 🚫

@Dinsdale

BtFH = GMW's site

Yeah, the 'gmwylie - Site Admin' against her posts sort-of gives that away, but it gives something else for people interested to search the forums here for, to find that site, if they don't know to search for beyondthefarhorizon·net

Also, it looks like the Gina Stone/New Essex books were published in some form - the titles I found, Alternate Door and Different World are obviously them, but don't match in number of books - but not expunged from BtFH.

Gauthier 🚫

@PotomacBob

Most of the Alternate History stories on SoL do not fit that mold.

Do-Over stories often involve alternate history. Most of the time, the Do-Over is the reason for a limited change.

Some of the Time-Travel stories do to.

Post Apocalyptic stories also fit the theme.

If you are more interested in societal changes
There are also whole universes defined by a single event if you chose to see it that way like M.O.R.F.S, Naked in School, The Swarm cycle.

Most old short term anticipation stories failed on some level and are now alternate histories. Like for example:
Kelly by Morgan who failed to take into account the Soviet Union fall.

Michael Loucks 🚫
Updated:

@PotomacBob

What if the South had won the Civil War?

In the dead tree world, Harry Turtledove has a complete series on this, as well as an alternate standalone book.

The series Southern Victory consists of 11 books, starting with How Few Remain. The premise is that Union soldiers do not find a copy of Special Order 191 and the South wins the Battle of Sharpsburg/Antietam. The series continues into the 1940s, including alternate WWI and WWII.

Guns of the South is the standalone book, and, well, I don't want to give away the plot. 🤪

Another interesting book by the same author is the anthology Agent of Byzantium, whcih has as its point of divergence Mohammad never founding Islam and becoming a celebrated Christian preacher and saint ("There is no God but God, and Jesus is His Son").

Replies: StarFleet Carl

StarFleet Carl 🚫

@Michael Loucks

Guns of the South is the standalone book, and, well, I don't want to give away the plot.

I have read that book in softback so many time I literally need another copy, I've destroyed both covers. I think Lee holding that rifle on the cover sort of gives part of the plot away. ;)

I also have his How Few Remain series. I think he does his best when he concentrates on alternate history and not on alternate science (cough Supervolcano cough). Hell, even Joe Steele was interesting, in a horrific kind of way.

Replies: Michael Loucks

Michael Loucks 🚫

@StarFleet Carl

I have read that book in softback so many time I literally need another copy, I've destroyed both covers. I think Lee holding that rifle on the cover sort of gives part of the plot away. ;)

And the cover of my Agent of Byzantium book was clearly designed by someone who had never read the book. It showed a person in Western Roman military clothing holding a satellite receiver and a laser rifle! They have ZERO to do with the story. 🤦🏻‍♂️

helmut_meukel 🚫

@PotomacBob

Harry Turtledove's Crosstime Traffic Series. Each book features another alternate history scenario.
* Gunpowder Empire; the Roman Empire that never fell.
* Curious Notions; the Kaiser's Germany won World War One.
* In High Places; treason within Crosstime Traffic.
* The Disunited States of America; shooting war between ancient enemies Virginia and Ohio.
* The Gladiator; the Soviet Union won the Cold War, the world's gone communist.
* The Valley–Westside War; in a Los Angeles where nuclear war broke out back in 1967, is now war between the Westside and San Fernando Valley.

HM.

helmut_meukel 🚫

@PotomacBob

Banadin's Richard Jackson Saga: With his inventions and actions Rick changes history. Even in Book 1- The Beginning (same as My Summer Vacation 1958) he meets Texas Ranger Walker and then the Ewings. During his next summer he invents the Cargo Container System while working as a deckhand.

HM.

helmut_meukel 🚫

@PotomacBob

In dead tree there is Kirk Mitchell's Germanicus Trilogy Procurator; New Barbarians; Cry Republic; following the adventures of Roman Emperor Germanicus Julius Agricola Aztecus Caesar in an alternate universe where Rome never fell.

HM.

helmut_meukel 🚫

@PotomacBob

In dead tree:
Henry Beam Piper's Paratime stories.
Poul Anderson's Time Patrol Stories.

HM.

Nizzgrrl 🚫

@PotomacBob

And now for something entirely different . . . Have you looked at the Magic Ink series by UncleJim? https://storiesonline.net/universe/792/magic-ink

As I recall the what if motif involves the characters to the American Revolution.

Radagast 🚫

@PotomacBob

https://storiesonline.net/universe/785/new-rome

Radagast 🚫

@PotomacBob

https://storiesonline.net/universe/785/new-rome

AmigaClone 🚫

@PotomacBob

Two other dead tree novels

Tunnel Through the Deeps (also published as A Transatlantic Tunnel, Hurrah!) is a 1972 alternate history/science fiction novel by American writer Harry Harrison. The thirteen colonies lost the War of Independence.

Beginning with The Probability Broach in 1980, L. Neil Smith wrote several novels that postulated the disintegration of the US Federal Government after Albert Gallatin joins the Whiskey Rebellion in 1794 and eventually leads to the creation of a libertarian utopia.

helmut_meukel 🚫

@PotomacBob

In dead tree (and eBook):
Eric Flint's 1632verse.
Eric Flint's 1812: The Rivers of War.
Quite some books by Robert Conroy: 1882: Custer In Chains, 1920: America's Great War, Himmler's War, Germanica and some more.
Wen Spencer's Elfhome series.
S.M.Sterling's Conquistador, The Peshavar Lancers, and his trilogy Island in the Sea of Time, Against the Tide of Years, On the Oceans of Eternity.
Sean McMullen's Before the Storm and its sequel Changing Yesterday.
Harry Turtledove's Down in the Bottomlands.
John Ringo's The Last Centurion.

Here on SOL:
Ernest Bywater's Clan Amir series.
Ernest Bywater's Stand in Time.
R. Michael Lowe aka The Scot's Winds of Change.
aubie56's Craig McAllister, Autoloading Shotgun.
Kraken's Robledo Mountain Series

HM.

samuelmichaels 🚫

@PotomacBob

"A True history" and Love Never Changes by StarFleet Carl;
Proeliator, Rebirth, Shawn, Time by John Wales;
"Imperium" by Lumpy;
Finding Peace by Celtic Cowboy;
A Fresh Start by rlfj;
"Hindsight 20/20" by SmokinDriver;
A New Past by Charlie Foxtrot;
"Surviving" by Scotland-the-Brave;
"Retreads", Will and Carry by Rotedrachen;
and several novels by FantasyLover.

Replies: Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf 🚫

@samuelmichaels

Once we're in the do-over category (and especially if you're open to a fairly slow-burn set of deviations), my Variation on a Theme counts. There are historical facts already changed (some due to the action of my characters, but others simply 'because' - it's an alternate universe, both from the pre-do-over state and from ours) and more on their way to being changed.

Slow-burn, though. There's nothing on par with the major changes in, say, A Fresh Start, much less A New Past. On the other hand, A Fresh State covers well over a decade before something really big changes, and I'm only six years in, so anything's possible.

itsmehonest 🚫

@PotomacBob

Old Man with a Pen doesn't get mentioned much but try this series on for size.

The Chance — a series by Old Man with a Pen
The life and Death of David…more than once.

DBActive 🚫
Updated:

@PotomacBob

What if Charles Lindberg had defeated FDR in the election prior to WWII.

Philip Roth wrote a bigoted and altogether disgusting novel, The Plot Against America on this theme later made into an HBO miniseries.

Of course, Philip K. Dick also wrote that story in the Man in the High Castle that was made into a series on Amazon.

soccercoachguru 🚫

@PotomacBob

Dead tree
'The Two Georges'
The famous painting of George Washington and king George signing a peace accord has been stolen. Detective is on the case. Separatists and rebels are suspected.

It's written as a detective story, however, the background descriptions are about how the USA territory and society would be different if there wasn't a split from England.

Replies: lnettnay Dinsdale

lnettnay 🚫

@soccercoachguru

I enjoyed that book. Without all the wars technology advanced more slowly. Steam powered cars, Zeppelins, old school telephones, and very few guns.

Lonny

Dinsdale 🚫

@soccercoachguru

Bruce Bretthauer wrote something where Lord George Sackville was killed leading a glorious cavalry charge at Minden in 1759.
He later tried micromanaging the British troops during the US Revolutionary War. From London. He did about as much to make sure the British lost as George Washington did.

It's written as a detective story, however, the background descriptions are about how the USA territory and society would be different if there wasn't a split from England.

That also sounds a lot like Bruce Bretthauer's story, it was "Counterfeit Line" or maybe "Different World" and neither was posted here.

Replies: madnige

madnige 🚫
Updated:

@Dinsdale

That also sounds a lot like Bruce Bretthauer's story, it was "Counterfeit Line" or maybe "Different World" and neither was posted here.

Both are on BtFH along with the third in the series, Body of Evidence

For those who can't drive BtFH, from the BtFH main page first steps are Quicklinks >> Show Authors

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Forum: Story Recommendations

What If?

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