Forum: Editors/Reviewers Hangout

It's the one all those Johnny Foreigner types understand, although you may have to shout at them :)

I don't know about that. American(USA) religious missionaries have been teaching people English across Africa and Asia for decades. I doubt that those missionaries are teaching BrE.

Today when you look at language dictionaries they can list over 20 variants of English with one for every country that uses English as their main language.

It isn't unique to English, is it?

It isn't unique to English, is it?

Spanish and/or Portuguese might be spoken in more countries, with central and south America, but the countries tend to be smaller with lower populations, so English is probably spoken by more people.

What I meant to convey with my question was that where people use some language other than English (Spanish, for example), the usage might also differ from country to country, I'm guessing. Does Spanish spoken in, say, Mexico differ from Spanish spoken in Puerto Rico (or in Spain)?

Does Spanish spoken in, say, Mexico differ from Spanish spoken in Puerto Rico (or in Spain)?

Yes

Then again, try talking text book French to a Parisian...Despite French being a dead language the dialects within and without France vary to the point of incomprehension

Despite French being a dead language

That's the first time I've seen it asserted that French is a dead language. What makes it dead?

Does the French law apply to French as it is spoken in Canada?

I suspect the French law isn't rigorously followed even in France, with terms like weekend and database being widely used.

You are missing the point.

Hamburger, Weekend & Database etc are used because there is no French word for those things, the fact that the authorities refuse to allow 'new' words into the French language is what makes it a 'dead' language.

Base de donnees

Which of those three words is a new word?

There are many examples of phrases used in place of words not already in the French language, but those are not new words, they are phrases used to avoid having to use a foreign word, such as 'le Hamburger'.

Comprenez-vous?

All three

Really? Base..? de..? donnees..??

None are actually 'new' words.

Database is the new word

It's no more french than hamburger, neither are new French words.

Again, the French language is 'dead' because new words are not recognised or allowed into the (official) French language. (See an earlier reply by Dominions Son)

both hamburger and database are in common use in France.

Being in common use does not make them French..!!

"Gotcha", "gimmie" and "K" are all in common usage in English (at least in the U.S.), but none are "English" words.

You can find "Gotcha" in several English dictionaries nowadays.

By the way, French airports are the ONLY airports in the entire world which do not use English, as the French outlawed it, to the consternation of pilots everywhere.

The French are still upset that English has replaced French as the language of diplomacy at the International level.

Hamburger, Weekend & Database etc are used because there is no French word for those things, the fact that the authorities refuse to allow 'new' words into the French language is what makes it a 'dead' language.

There are always French words for those things.
Try to use words like computer, hard drive etc. in French publications or ads and you get fined! They can't fine you if you use computer instead of ordinateur in private mail or speaking to other people, but if you go shopping for a computer, I doubt the salesperson will use the word computer, it will show you an ordinateur.

While France accepts the word week-end, the French Wikipedia entry for week-end states:

Au Canada francophone, depuis les années 1920, le terme francophone " fin de semaine " s'est imposé dans l'usage standard afin de remplacer week-end. L'Office québécois de la langue française (OQLF) refuse de l'accepter comme synonyme, pour éviter qu'il concurrence le terme " fin de semaine ", déjà bien implanté au Québec.

HM.

They can't fine you if you use computer instead of ordinateur in private mail or speaking to other people, but if you go shopping for a computer, I doubt the salesperson will use the word computer, it will show you an ordinateur.

Wiki isn't exactly a trusted authority.

As for going computer shopping, it is at least made simple by the sheer number of stores whose name includes the word computer..!!

As for going computer shopping, it is at least made simple by the sheer number of stores whose name includes the word computer..!!

I doubt this is true in France.
Here is Dell's French website.
Here is HP France, with a list of vendors. Scrolling through, I found no name that includes computer.
(But one with the Alsatian-German word Computa).

Obviously it's ok to use 'PC' in French.

HM.

I doubt this is true in France.

Just a couple of French computer shops

www.amedia-computer.com

E'Maging Computer France

Just a couple of French computer shops

www.amedia-computer.com

E'Maging Computer France

Did you try to locate some of their shops?

I selected the widest range (100 km) and tried these cities:
Paris, Rennes, Bordeaux, Calais, Reims, Sedan, Dijon, Lyon, Marseille, Metz, Nancy.

No shops found except this one: Amedia Computer France, 69 Avenue de la Libération 57530 Courcelles-Chaussy France;
it came up with Metz and Nacy.

Looks like a failing business, the only things you can buy are replacement parts for Amigas and such really old systems. I guess their use of the word computer is grandfathered, because Amigas and Ataris (and probably their shop) existed prior to the law.

The other link isn't a computer shop at all. They state on their website

Emaging Computer France est leader de la maintenance traceurs HP, Canon en France et de la vente de traceurs Canon en France

They do maintenance for HP and Canon plotters and sell Canon plotters.

Sorry,

HM.

ETA They don't use the word plotter but traceur!

Don't feel sorry, no need.

I really can't see the point of wasting both time and bandwidth posting a whole stream of links, so let's just agree to disagree.

That's the first time I've seen it asserted that French is a dead language. What makes it dead?

A decree issued by the French Government.

What I meant to convey with my question was that where people use some language other than English (Spanish, for example), the usage might also differ from country to country, I'm guessing. Does Spanish spoken in, say, Mexico differ from Spanish spoken in Puerto Rico (or in Spain)?

Yes.

Slang in particular varies widely between Spanish dialects, sometimes with terms that are completely inoffensive in some dialects being mildly crude in others and deadly insults in still others.

A Spaniard in Mexico to the Mexican, will sound like Brit in America to the American.

The worst drivers in the UK are BMW-drivers, with the highest rate of prosecutions. Audi and Mercedes
are next, although I can't remember which way round.

But the drivers are Brits, right?

This morning I saw an Asian man walk out of the local doctors' surgery and get into his BMW, parked in the nearby 'library users only' car park. Definitely a wanker :(

So someone apparently in need of surgery usurped a parking space dedicated to library visitors. What a heinous crime.

Let me guess - you saw him out of the window of your car as you drove to the library and couldn't find a parking space?

(The worst drivers in the UK are BMW-drivers, with the highest rate of prosecutions. Audi and Mercedes
are next, although I can't remember which way round.)

I think that is the same world wide. Here in the Netherlands VW Golf and Polo are the choice of import 'fur collar' trash although they also seem to upgrade to BMW and Audi.

However, I'm shocked at one thing about the German engineers. The cup holders are useless. A normal size cup here doesn't fit. I guess they have short cups in Germany.

Nah, the cup holders are ok, the US size of cups is just ridiculous. You Americans still think size matters ;)

The worst drivers in the UK are BMW-drivers, with the highest rate of prosecutions. Audi and Mercedes

What? No Porsches?

What, an American who can spell Porsche!!!!

Nope, just one who knows how to look it up on-line if he needs it. :)

Does Spanish spoken in, say, Mexico differ from Spanish spoken in Puerto Rico (or in Spain)?

Yes, but.

Spanish has many variations, between Spain and Hispanic America, both in pronunciation and in vocabulary, but it is under the same spelling norm, regulated by the Association of Spanish Language Academies.

Association of Spanish Language Academies

The collaboration between RAE and the other academies was expressed in the coauthorship, since the 22nd edition published in 2001, of the Dictionary of the Spanish Language (Spanish: Diccionario de la Lengua Española), and the 1999 edition of the Orthography (Spanish: Ortografía) was considered a true pan-Hispanic work. Joint projects include the editing of the Grammar (Spanish: Gramática) and the compilation of the Dictionary of Americanisms (Spanish: Diccionario de americanismos).

HM.

I know that the Military uses different language codes for Portuguese as spoken in Brazil and the Portuguese spoken in Portugal.

There are over a billion people who claim to speak English - although the number that are semi-fluent or better potentially is a lot lower.

I know that the Military uses different language codes for Portuguese as spoken in Brazil and the Portuguese spoken in Portugal.

But they try at least to maintain a common Portuguese orthography.
As you can see in the linked article, they mostly accepted the different spellings as both correct.

That's more than the English speaking countries do.

HM.

Exactly! I'm glad you recognize the US educational system.

in the Californian public system it goes:

1 eh, dos, eh ...

In Torquay, On Those Trays

dos, eh

That's twenty ...

When my Dad said it to me, he meant I was speaking distinctly. That was not in the Deep South. And it wasn't a dialect; just me not bothering to pronounce words correctly.

E nuns see 8. :)