Forum: Editors/Reviewers Hangout

Couches.

As far as I can tell, most American usage appears to be synonymous with what the UK would call a 'sun lounger'. That was certainly the case in the dead tree novel, as it mentioned them all being symmetrically lined up beside a swimming pool.

AJ

It's also a term for indoor furniture, similar to a settee or divan.

I thought there was an implication that the seat/chair was for a single person, but a Google image search shows mainly pictures of sofas/settees/couches.

AJ

On a more serious note, there is a discussion about this on English Stackexchange

As far as I can see, the discussion there was about 'chaise longue'. I'd have more confidence if they had admitted chaise lounge had become normalised in the USA and discussed its plurals.

AJ

However, I hate it when evolution occurs because speakers have misheard or misread some idiom and start using it incorrectly so often the error becomes an accepted new variation. 'Chaise lounge' in America is one of the most egregious examples of that I have seen.

Like the asinine "Here, here!" instead of "Hear, hear!"?

Here's to homophones!

Hey, I've got nothing against each separate minority group choosing their own phones, it's an ancient principal called 'separate but equal'. 'D

Lounges. Chaise looks to me to be modifying Lounge. Once the French longue is "Americanized" to lounge, it gets pluralized like an American word. With a very few exceptions like attorneys general. But how often do multiple attorney generals get together? Maybe the Judge Advocates branch of the army has several attorneys who are general officers, O7 or higher. Then they would be Attorney Generals.

I'm an author and not an editor, so take my advice with a healthy dose of skepticism, but unless the term it italicized, denoting that it's a foreign and not an English term, I'd default to the English plural approach (pluralizing the final word), as it's no longer a French term but an Anglicized variant.

I would consider 'chaise lounges' to be the lesser vulgarity.

'Chaise lounges' was used in the dead tree novel, although I'm not convinced there was much of an attempt to edit/proofread it.

My sense of mischief compels me to wonder what Americans would use as the plural of 'femme fatale' ;)

AJ

I hope we never get to the point where editors and proofreaders 'correct' chaise longue to chaise lounge :(

AJ

I'd say my favoured option would be to leave it but use italics. My alternative options would be 'couch' and 'bum support'.

The 110 million copies sold, by an American author, story used chaise lounge as a synonym of sun lounger.

And I believe I read somewhere that you can buy a sort of bra for the buttocks, ie a bum support ;)

AJ

I think they call them panties. Or bikini bottoms.

Those cover but don't offer much support. I'm not sure of the optimum search terms but 'bra for the buttocks' and 'buttocks lifter' both return appropriate images.

Anyone here familiar with the jargon surrounding buttock support products? ;)

AJ

Anyone here familiar with the jargon surrounding buttock support products? ;)

Do women still wear girdles?

Do women still wear girdles?

Well, I know my wife does at times. Especially when she wants to fit into something that's more formal than just the usual jeans.

Do women still wear girdles?

Nowadays they're simply called 'Spanx'.

Have any dictionaries accepted 'better' and 'best' as verbs yet? :(

AJ

Both Oxford and dictionary.com accept both - with a sense of winning some contest. :-)

I'm sorry, but the dictionary's examples fall short. "I'm besting you," implies winning a contest, while "I'm bettering you," implies an imposed lesson on someone who's unappreciative of the effort.

It is nitpicks like that which often make attempts to be constructive here very frustrating.

You're right. My objection wasn't with you for pointing out the dictionaries' point of view. It was with the dictionaries' points themselves. Is it nitpicking to point out the only exception, or in originally choosing a single example where your rule works (i.e. does the nitpicking claim rest with the dictionary entry).

My example could easily be "I bettered myself" or "when he betters his bread he'll be much smarter than he currently is." 'D

The point of my post was answer to answer one question. I added a few words of clarification, which were good enough for that purpose and not intended as a complete definition.

Valid point. But I wasn't specifically targeting your answer, but the dictionary's assertion. But you're right, there was no way to detect that I was referring to the dictionary entry vs. your response.

Have any dictionaries accepted 'better' and 'best' as verbs yet? :(

Both Oxford and dictionary.com accept both - with a sense of winning some contest. :-)

Damn, I forgot about that meaning. I better pull my socks up ;)

AJ

If they've instructed me they want AmE I couldn't leave 'chaise longue' uncorrected!

Would you also correct 'rogue' to 'rouge' to satisfy AmE?

I've seen a lot of occurrences recently: rouge dog, rouge mage, rouge AI, rouge FBI agent, rouge CIA agent, and I don't think the authors meant they were recruited from Mars. The spelling seems to have become normalised here on SOL, and that's generally an indication it's become normalised in the USA at large :(

AJ

What proportion of Americans would you require to habitually use 'rouge' instead of 'rogue' in order for your opinion to change?

While 'rouge' seems the majority spelling on SOL, I noticed rlfj used 'rogue' in his blog.

AJ

Shall we talk about the errors British newspapers make instead? I've recently seen 'tow the line' used, and 'talks are muted' with an intended meaning of suggested, not low volume. :(

You used a smiley! Welcome to civilisation.

I agree about British newspapers - proofreading standards have dropped alarmingly of late. I guess they've had to hire the product of our backsliding educational system. I recently proofread a story by a former journalist, and they were horrified at the number of typos I found.

On a whim, I checked the frequencies of 'tounge' versus 'tongue'. While there's far too many of the former (IMO), they're just a drop in the ocean compared to the frequency of the correct spelling.

Perhaps Americans should just drop the letter 'u' from their alphabet. They're already on course, having dropped it from words like 'humour'. 'Chaise longe', 'roge', 'tonge' versus 'chaise lounge', 'rouge', 'tounge'. Hmmm.

AJ

We did it to colour. I'm Sure we can keep going until it's eradicated.

I think there's a case for 'u' to be spared if it's the first letter of a word.

(And what on earth is an ited state anyway?)

AJ

I thought 'un' was a prefix meaning 'the opposite of'. Hence 'universe' is the opposite of 'iverse'. ;)

AJ

I hope we never get to the point where editors and proofreaders 'correct' chaise longue to chaise lounge :(

How about if they correct it to "chaste lungs" instead? 'D

Chaise longue is French. It means 'long seat'. Its plural is chaises longues.

Several sources insist that in the US it is almost always written as 'chaise lounge', and that is my experience as well.

The only time I've ever heard the term 'chaise longue' or 'chaise lounge' is when someone is trying to be pretentious when discussing their expensive leather couches. Thus I consider it a largely meaningless pretension, rather than an accurate description of a piece of furniture.

The fact that it's a fancy French term just makes it that much more pretentious.

The only time I've ever heard the term 'chaise longue' or 'chaise lounge' is when someone is trying to be pretentious when discussing their expensive leather couches.

Actually, what I think about when I hear chaise lounge is swimming pool furniture.

Actually, what I think about when I hear chaise lounge is swimming pool furniture.

I agree with you there. Personally, I'd never use the term at all, unless the story unfolds in France and the phrase was italicized. Few English speakers use the phrase the way it was originally intended, but instead to convey that their couch is more expensive than yours.

It's San Andrea's fault.

And she's got plenty of 'em, too!

Some people just have too much time on their hands.

You're right, poor Anne Thrax needs something better to do with her time than her current hobby. 'D

If they drop "u" what will they do to double u?

of more interest is what will they replace it with in the leet style text messages.