Forum: Editors/Reviewers Hangout

Bondi's got a great feel for stories. One issue with authors, in general though, is we find it difficult to turn off our inner editors (i.e. red-marking the text).

That's why it's best to invoke beta readers after the story has been thoroughly edited. They can highlight any typos which snuck past the editors, but otherwise they won't worry about punctuation/errors and con concentrate on story content.

A more difficult proposition for decent beta readers, is honesty. They've got to be willing to tell you what they HATE about a story, and it helps if they can differentiate between what they dislike and why it bothers them, which aren't the same thing. That's why family make such bad beta-editors, as they won't tell you when they dislike something.

My fix is to give a story to my mother, and watch her as she reads the entire book. Everyone she puts it down and walks into the other room to do something, I'll check what was happened before she put the book down. That'll clue me in to which subjects frustrate her. However, very often someone will say "I dislike so-and-so character because she's such a bitch", but they can't diagnose why they rub them the wrong way. It helps if you can query them, so you can boil down their objections by focusing on issues. Dealing with beta-readers is a tricky proposition. Basically, you need to recruit people who like delivering bad news!

Bondi's got a great feel for stories.

Just an aside from another thread. The above sentence is a great example of using contractions incorrectly (for "Bondi has" rather than "Bondi possesses X".

On that theme, a present for you:

"What would Linda and the kids say about you're kidnapping me?...

AJ

On that theme, a present for you:
"What would Linda and the kids say about you're kidnapping me?...

AJ

Sounds like a great opening line. Look forward to the story.

bb

In that case read 'Singularity' by CW - I was pointing out the dodgy contraction.

AJ

In that case read 'Singularity' by CW - I was pointing out the dodgy contraction.

Sorry, I didn't catch that when I read your post. That was a simple typo. The story's been corrected, but because I have to post it thrice, I likely won't update the story on SOL until later. Thanks for catching it.

On that theme, a present for you:
"What would Linda and the kids say about you're kidnapping me?...

Sounds like a great opening line. Look forward to the story.

Sorry, but the quote occurs mid-book (chapter 10 of an 18 chapter story), and only after the main character discovers details about the person he's speaking too (picking the person's private details out of thin air).

@REP

That is one way to do it, and the reasons are valid. The flip side of doing that way is, if the Beta Reader's input requires major rewrites, the author and editor have to redo a lot of work.

That's why many content editors suggest sending them your basic plot outline/story premise before you flesh out the story, so they can catch any potential plot holes. I've never known any author who followed this advice, but it's one approach. However, in my case, often various plots never work out, and committing to a story before it's even partially written seems like a fool's mission.

Bondi's got a great feel for stories.

Bondi has a great feel for a lot of things, especially boobs and other curves. He and his characters enjoy feeling them.

On that subject, here's Diana Gabaldon, author of Outlander, on post-coital feelings: "The shapes of her lingered, warm in his hands, curving his fingers in memory..."

I'm working out how much of that I have to change before I steal it.

bb

so if you can wait for Bondi to available, you would be in a safer pair of hands.

An unproven assertion, no question.

bb

To me the apostrophe merely indicates that a letter or letters have been omitted.

That's true, and how it really is. The actual word replaced is easily worked out from context. The 's is usually a replacement for any of - is, was, has.

edit to add: 'd can be would, could, had, and others.

'd can be ... others.

He'd might refer to others? That's a new one. :-)

@Bondi Beach
On that subject, here's Diana Gabaldon, author of Outlander, on post-coital feelings: "The shapes of her lingered, warm in his hands, curving his fingers in memory..."

I'm working out how much of that I have to change before I steal it.

Apart from your avoiding a straight copy I find that a beautiful sensitive bit of writing

I agree entirely. My comment was partly a joke, since straight copying is frowned on, but partly serious in my effort to find a way to convey something of what the phrase conveys---shape, warm, curving fingers, etc.

My wife is now a confirmed fan of Outlander, the time-travel bodice ripper with hairy guys in skirts, and especially of Gabaldon's sex scenes as written and as portrayed on the screen. I can see why.

bb

young, innocent warm body, slightly moist from the effects of what has gone before, flushed with pleasure, the heart beating fast and arteries visibly pulsating, the hard nipple beneath your finger just begging for your lips to bring it yet again to its needed conclusion, the navel - that entry into the body which your tongue explores, making her writhe ......

I'd like to read the story that belongs to.

That said, it is a little florid, no matter how many or how few commas and dots it has. The strength of Gabaldon's prose, what makes it beautiful and sensitive, in your words, is its restraint.

Florid is good, sometimes, and usually in small doses. Not knocking it.

bb

That piece is not part of anything

I know. My comment was an oblique way of saying if it were to become a story I'd like to read it.

It is a long time since I wrote anything serious - I think the last one was a "picture" of a man/woman who is feared from the yurt of the Siberian shaman to the ethereal palaces of Alpha Centauri, from the caves of proto humanoids to the modern city centre office. I even got to include references to world leaders, Jesus Christ, Buddha etc. - but goodness knows where my copy is now - a newspaper owns the copyright

Donald Trump?

bb

That's why it's best to invoke beta readers after the story has been thoroughly edited.

That is one way to do it, and the reasons are valid. The flip side of doing that way is, if the Beta Reader's input requires major rewrites, the author and editor have to redo a lot of work.

I'll repeat some wise words from CW, "Write. Write. Write!"

Which is later replaced with Edit, write, edit, write, edit post

Which is later replaced with Edit, write, edit, write, edit post

Write, edit, rewrite, revise, edit, farm out to other editors, revise, review, edit a few stray elements, repeat until you're sick of the story and then publish/post. 'D

You're a writer, you don't have time for those distractions.

Nor for a life; writing, like most artistic fields, is a full-time position. You either concentrate on creating, or you diddle, never getting much accomplished.

Exactly, we create so others can diddle. :D

Second that.

bb

but no posts

When you create an author account it will set you up to use the system, but nothing will be visible to others until after you post your first chapter of your first story. So, no posts yet is why they don't see you.

edit to add; The same applies to a universe and a series, it's not visible to people until there's a story in it.

Perhaps I don't understand the difference between beta readers and to coin a phrase, maybe, alpha readers.

Alpha readers are a special class of editor. They don't need to understand zilch about English usage or grammar, but they've GOT to be brutally honest. Their main aim, is to flag which sections of the story give them pause. Often, you'll plan on a particular story element to convey one thing, but a select/core group interpret it an entirely different way, and not knowing this leaves you unprepared when they start rating your story poorly.

The beta-readers will say, "I dislike the lead character", but will rarely know precisely why. Thus it's up to the author to deconstruct reader pre-conceptions, and then to recreate the essential passages/character development sections, to shore up the more easily misconstrued portions of the story.

Hope that clarifies their role, though it's likely to just make the entire discussion more difficult to comprehend. :-(

The key, though, is that beta readers are readers, expressing their opinions of the story, as opposed to technical experts pointing out technical flaws. Their objective is to flag potential issues in the story which need to be addressed before publication/posting. Often authors rely on relatives for this role, but that's a notorious bad selection simply because they can't admit they hate your story, so they'll instead remain silent if something really bothers them.