Could we have a story code added for indicating that it includes a character who is non-binary / gender-fluid / otherwise gender-queer?
The existing codes for outside the M and F binary are strictly for anatomy, not identity. (That Hermaphrodite is deeply problematic is a whole kettle of worms.)
I'm not sure that it's really needed.
I mean, generally, when people are determining what stories to avoid, yes there are those who want to only read the gender (physical) pairing(s) they're comfortable with.
However, they're not going to magically decide that "oh, that's actually a lesbian story because the boy and his dog both self-identify as female humans"
Adding the M/M, M/m etc tag almost guarantees few readers and fewer votes. Adding the three tags you suggest for the very few stories that might need it seems pointless.
Bear in mind that new tags only realistically get applied to new stories. The usual scenario is that enough stories are posted to make a new tag worthwhile.
Adding the M/M, M/m etc tag almost guarantees few readers and fewer votes. Adding the three tags you suggest for the very few stories that might need it seems pointless
Er, I may have been unclear - I'm asking for a single tag. The slashes separate examples of what it would cover.
The existing codes for outside the M and F binary are strictly for anatomy, not identity. (That Hermaphrodite is deeply problematic is a whole kettle of worms.)
The codes exist to allow people to avoid content they do not/will not like.
And hermaphrodite is simple: include any hermaphrodite as both male and female for any pairings. Such that (assuming teens):
hermaphrodite+male = mf,mm,herm
hermaphrodite+female = mf,ff,herm
hermaphrodite+hermaphrodite = ff,mf,mm,herm
The codes exist to allow people to avoid content they do not/will not like.
I guess I'm the exception. I use tags to find stories I'd like.
I guess I'm the exception. I use tags to find stories I'd like.
Nope. Anyone using the simple category search is selecting for codes they like.
The advanced cat search allows avoidance as well as inclusion.
So it really depends upon how sophisticated or lazy the user is in using the search options available.
So it really depends upon how sophisticated or lazy the user is in using the search options available.
What I meant is, I search on codes I'm in the mood for. If a story is found that also has codes I'm not fond of, it's not an automatic rejection. So although I may exclude a story due to codes, my main use of codes is to find stories with those codes.
Do I use the - when searching? Sometimes.
The history of story tags is part of this:
back in the day, stories with sex content were usually only available on alt.sex.stories and there were many many posts per day (in part because the maximum posting size was limited, so chapters of a story could take multiple postings) so people desired a way to weed out stories. Since it was USENET, the idea of utilizing .kill files was readily obvious. Place tags on every story posting in the title, and the reading software could use the .kill file to mark as read (and to not show) stories containing tags you had no interest in. Those tags were carried over to ASSTR and other places. Laz may have used them as ways to recall stories from a database early on, I really never considered what he was using on the back end back in the day.
Laz created the category search, and since it (at least in the beginning) lacked the ability to block content, some may have gotten used to thinking of the codes as something other than a tool to filter out content.
However, except for the rare few who have no squicks whatsoever, the main benefit of codes is identifying those stories containing those squicks and avoiding them, which reduces overall drama due to people reacting badly to content. Except for asswipes that search out content they object to just to have something to bitch about. But they can fuck themselves with rusty backfiring chainsaws.
Or maybe you'll just read anything because you have a really strong stomach for M/b snuff stories and whatnot.
M/b snuff stories
It depends on the description. If that's what the story is about, then I'd give it a pass. But if the description gives me the impression that it's a consequence of a strong plot, I'd probably read it and skim the scene.
I actually wrote a M/F snuff scene once. I didn't even realize I did until a reader told me I was missing the code. I was showing the brutality of a killer who killed an old woman for the enjoyment of killing her. He happened to be fucking her while strangling her.
But they can fuck themselves with rusty backfiring chainsaws.
If harm is intended, wouldn't a well maintained and freshly sharpened chainsaw be more desirable? Oh, and perhaps a lack of chain oil, lest it be considered as lube.
:)
Pain is intended along with harm. For maximum pain, dull and unpredictable cutting is superior.
I've written a scene that involved fucking with chainsaws.
Fortunately it was a movie reference and not actually happening at the time, or my codes would need modification.
I've written a scene that involved fucking with chainsaws.
Wow! A Heathers reference. :-)
include any hermaphrodite as both male and female for any pairings. Such that (assuming teens):
hermaphrodite+male = mf,mm,herm
hermaphrodite+female = mf,ff,herm
hermaphrodite+hermaphrodite = ff,mf,mm,herm
There is no way I'd make the reverse translation in those examples: to me "mf,ff,herm" reads as "there's a teen girl-girl pairing, a teen girl-boy pairing, and a character who is intersex."
None of those would encompass a genderqueer character - intersex (and herm) is body, not identity.
The codes exist to allow people to avoid content they do not/will not like.
My requested code could be used for just that, as I strongly suspect that there readers who find genderqueer characters distasteful, if not an outright squick.
None of those would encompass a genderqueer character - intersex (and herm) is body, not identity.
The point is, people who object to two people with cocks fucking, or two people with pussies fucking, or breeders fucking... well, they're reacting to bodies. (Ok, technically anyone fucking a hermaphrodite is part breeder/part homosexual so..._)
I'd be hard-pressed to think of a single reason a person would object to a story with a 'genderqueer' character where that character only engages in sex with (to the reader) 'appropriate' physical pairings. (ie: if the reader likes ff stories and there's a biological female who believes herself to be male, and engages in sex with females only, I don't think the reader would object. If the reader hates lesbian stories and read that same story, it would go over poorly.)
I'd be hard-pressed to think of a single reason a person would object to a story with a 'genderqueer' character where that character only engages in sex with (to the reader) 'appropriate' physical pairings.
Interestingly, I tend to agree, and yet I think it's a case where the codes may miss the point.
I can see a number of readers objecting to the non-sexual presence of a genderqueer character (because they're opposed to the idea of such a thing at all). I can also see people who want to read a story with such a character even if that character never engages in sex, because they'll feel represented.
Doesn't necessarily mean we need a tag, but it's food for thought.
I can see a number of readers objecting to the non-sexual presence of a genderqueer character (because they're opposed to the idea of such a thing at all). I can also see people who want to read a story with such a character even if that character never engages in sex, because they'll feel represented.
Thank you for summarizing, more succinctly and successfully than I managed, my point.
If you've followed the forum for a while, you'll know that increasing the number of tags is problematic. You need a stronger case than just a single person asking. Perhaps you could name a few stories where the code would have been useful.
AJ
Understood about a proliferation of tags. (side-eyes AO3, shudders) I was hoping, in part, to gauge support for such a tag.
As for examples, that's a tad difficult. They're hard to find, without a useful code. :)
There was the DragonCobalt story with the old black catfishing dude who turned into a teen girl.
I missed that one. But that would be a straight MTF trans story, not to something genderqueer.
But thank you for reminding me of DragonCobalt, as their Unconquered is genderqueer as fuck, set in a fantasy world with a third sex and gender, and a story with multiple transitions in several directions.
You might want to dig into Elf Sternberg.
I'm not sure, but he'd be the likeliest person I know to have written anything like you're talking about (other than DC or rache).
Speaking of Elf... Hey Mushroom, what was your Elf Sternberg number?
As for examples, that's a tad difficult. They're hard to find
Girl Fag by God Of Porn? Possibly worth looking through others of Rache's stories (at least that nym)?
I think there's a internet rule - if you can think of some kink likely to squick someone, it was in a story by rache or Elf Sternberg.d
why not use the TransGender code in the list:
TransGender - - Gender crossing, mostly men turning into women
The way that's worded it would also cover females transitioning to men.
Depending on what else you want in the story simply add as required:
Shemale - - Trans women with male genitalia and augmented female breasts from breast augmentation and/or use of hormones
Gay - - Self Explanatory
Ma/Ma - - 2 or more Adult Males over 18
Ma/mt - - Adult Male, Teen Male under 18
mt/mt - - 2 or more Teen Males under 18
why not use the TransGender code in the list:
TransGender - - Gender crossing, mostly men turning into women
Main reason: As worded, that code is for stories about transitioning, rather than for a character who has already transitioned in the past.
Secondary reason: I find the asymmetry of the definition fucking offensive. I mean, what the actual fuck, MTF is more common than FTM? The hell it is.
Off topic, but I do find it odd that you mention transitioning to female rather than what I was actually talking about, which is to neither male nor female.
Main reason: As worded, that code is for stories about transitioning, rather than for a character who has already transitioned in the past.
I read the code as being for stories about people both in transition and those who have transitioned.
Secondary reason: I find the asymmetry of the definition fucking offensive. I mean, what the actual fuck, MTF is more common than FTM? The hell it is.
I doubt Lazeez was trying to say anything beyond the likelihood that the few relevant stories to date tend to be more in MtF side than otherwise.
Secondary reason: I find the asymmetry of the definition fucking offensive. I mean, what the actual fuck, MTF is more common than FTM? The hell it is.
Actually, the definition was likely referring to the fact that at the time the code was added, most stories involving the code were of the MTF variety. (Oddly, of those I've known who've transitioned - out to one degree of separation - there's a 3:1 ratio MTF versus FTM. Not sure why.)
Oddly, of those I've known who've transitioned - out to one degree of separation - there's a 3:1 ratio MTF versus FTM. Not sure why.
Might have something to do with the fact that for FtM, there is no meaningful transition beyond cross dressing given current medical tech.
For MtF, they can sort of give him a pussy by turning his dick inside out.
They can't build a working dick for a FtM.
hey can't build a working dick for a FtM.
Actually... they can create a dick, and treat it like ED in the pre-Viagra days. There were surgical implants back then...
Actually... they can create a dick, and treat it like ED in the pre-Viagra days. There were surgical implants back then...
But how much sensation is it going to have? When I say working, I don't just mean capable of an erection, I mean the subject can get appropriate sexual sensations from it.
In that respect, I rather doubt the end result would be superior to a good strap on dildo.
There's apparently ways to make it generate some feeling. Not as much, but to some there's the psychological issue involved.
There's apparently ways to make it generate some feeling.
Yeah, about what you would get from rubbing your arm.
Actually a for real dick transplant isn't far off.
Soon a girl will be able to choose a dick she really desires, then have an acceptable male surgically transplanted onto it.
:)
Off topic, but I do find it odd that you mention transitioning to female rather than what I was actually talking about, which is to neither male nor female.
If you're not talking about someone who is transitioning between genders and feel the TransGender, Shemale, and Crossdressing aren't right, then you're falling into the basic categories of the sexual activity being gay, lesbian, bisexual, or heterosexual. The codes are meant to be about the activity, not the mental state of the character. Thus you're asking for something that is either already covered or not relevant to cover.
The codes are meant to be about the activity, not the mental state of the character.
Are they? In all seriousness.
Yes.
Squicks are about activity, not the mental state. Codes are primarily to avoid squicks. (Some will (mis)use them in other ways, but that was their original purpose.)
Of course, back in the mid-90s they were horribly abused by writers all convinced they'd written the improved version of 'The Crying Game' who decided to lie about content in order to draw in readers who would've avoided their work otherwise...
The only way to do that is to write 'Some codes may be omitted intentionally for the purpose of suspense. Read on at your own risk.'
I'm fine with that. It gives the reader enough information to make an intelligent decision. However, in the absence of a clear notice, use the codes properly, particularly codes that are most likely to cause 'squick'.
