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Vote count

Uther_Pendragon

On my story "Formez vos Bataillons," the particular-score columns give one score 3 votes, another score 2 votes, and three other scores 1 vote apiece.
Yet the "total vote" number is 10.

Either there are 2 votes which aren't recorded in the particular, or the total gets accreted with out a vote occurring.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Uther_Pendragon

Some votes get cancelled by the system.

Replies:   Uther_Pendragon  REP
Uther_Pendragon

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

Is that a feature or a bug?

What sort of votes get cancelled by the system?

seanski1969

While I am not Lazeez and have no standing in running the website I can inform you that the voting system here on SOL has a correction algorithm instituted by the system administrators.

It drops off some of the top and bottom scores and then issues the "corrected score".

If you want to know more search the Forums for complaints of the scoring/voting system. Long, angry, much debated posts are very common and should provide better insight than I could offer.

If this doesn't help or address your issue; sorry just trying to help.

Sean

Switch Blayde

@Uther_Pendragon

What sort of votes get cancelled by the system?


The top and bottom 5% get dropped.

Replies:   Keet
Keet

@Switch Blayde

The top and bottom 5% get dropped.

Uther mentioned a total of 10 votes. I though the 5% rule did not start until at least 20 votes were gathered.

Replies:   AmigaClone
AmigaClone

@Keet

A story has to have 20 votes and voting enabled for it's score to be visible for anyone but the author(s) and the webmaster.

I think that the 5% rule always applies, and due to rounding two of the votes are not counted.

seanski1969

I think that the 5% rule always applies, and due to rounding two of the votes are not counted.


If you take top 5% and bottom 5% you get 10%. Excuse me if I'm wrong but 10% of 10 votes is 1 vote. I think you meant to say that the at least one of the top and one of the bottom scores is always deleted up until you reach 20 votes and then the 5% rules can take affect. 10% of 20 votes equal 2 so then you can round up after that point.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@seanski1969

If you take top 5% and bottom 5% you get 10%. Excuse me if I'm wrong but 10% of 10 votes is 1 vote. I think you meant to say that the at least one of the top and one of the bottom scores is always deleted up until you reach 20 votes and then the 5% rules can take affect. 10% of 20 votes equal 2 so then you can round up after that point.

Actually, a more even-handed approach would be to simply split two votes in half, rather than only dropping one. Thus if you have all 10 votes, then instead of only using one, you could simply register them both as two 5s. Problem solved! 'D

Ernest Bywater

@Uther_Pendragon

What sort of votes get cancelled by the system?


My understanding is the scoring system drops the top 5% and the bottom 5% of the votes, but only whole votes, before it calculates the score. Also, a score isn't visible to the public until after 20 votes are registered. - In the situation you describe that wouldn't be affecting the votes yet.

The system also drops a vote if you change your vote. So if you read a story and vote on it to give it a 6 then later re-read it and give it a 7 the 6 is dropped and the 7 is used in the score calculations. I'm not sure if this process affects the total count of votes or not; I suspect that counter goes up 1 in each case and doesn't drop back down because it would be very hard to write the code to only change the vote count in that situation and not when a reader closes their account.

Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

The system also drops a vote if you change your vote. So if you read a story and vote on it to give it a 6 then later re-read it and give it a 7 the 6 is dropped and the 7 is used in the score calculations. I'm not sure if this process affects the total count of votes or not; I suspect that counter goes up 1 in each case and doesn't drop back down because it would be very hard to write the code to only change the vote count in that situation and not when a reader closes their account.

You mean all those stories my mama told me about the story-count fairies wasn't true? How dare you crush an ex-child's dreams like that? Next you'll tell me that Dragons don't eat tea and crumpets with the wee folk.

Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

Next you'll tell me that Dragons don't eat tea and crumpets with the wee folk.


They don't but the dragons also eat the wee folk, which you aren't usually told.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
AmigaClone

@Crumbly Writer

Next you'll tell me that Dragons don't eat tea and crumpets with the wee folk.


Actually Dragons eat tea, crumpets and the wee folk :)

robberhands

@Ernest Bywater

Also, a score isn't visible to the public until after 20 votes are registered.

A small correction - the score is invisible to the public until there are 16 votes, not 20.

The system also drops a vote if you change your vote. So if you read a story and vote on it to give it a 6 then later re-read it and give it a 7 the 6 is dropped and the 7 is used in the score calculations. I'm not sure if this process affects the total count of votes or not; I suspect that counter goes up 1 in each case and doesn't drop back down ...

No. The vote count is unaffected by recasts of previous votes. One account, one vote, one vote count.

sharkjcw

Who cares, Laz has said he is not changing the voting system

Replies:   REP
REP

@Ernest Bywater

I'm not sure if this process affects the total count of votes or not


I vaguely recall some one saying in an earlier conversation that the total vote count displayed is not affected by the 5% rule. The 5% rule only affects the vote count displayed by the histogram and the score.

REP
Updated:

@sharkjcw

I agree. The problem is we keep getting new participants in the Forum and the question of scores keeps coming up. Then the process of explaining how the scoring system works is raised with the explanations addressing only part of the explanation and the explanation may contain misstatements (i.e., poorly worded statements - not intentional lies.

REP

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

Lazeez,

I read the FAQ about how the scoring system works. Might I suggest you update that FAQ to explain that on the 'Detailed Info and Stats' page the Votes displayed is total votes. The votes displayed by the histogram and the Score reflect the displayed values after the 5% rule is applied.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

They don't but the dragons also eat the wee folk, which you aren't usually told.

That's how they get the tiny crumpet seeds out of their dragon teethes, with their wee-folk toothpicks. 'D

Crumbly Writer

@REP

Might I suggest you update that FAQ to explain that on the 'Detailed Info and Stats' page the Votes displayed is total votes.

That's not correct. If it was, then why have a 5% correction is all it does it limit the author's view of their own scores?

It's the total scores which are adjusted, not the graphic, but since the scoring changes, it also affects how the graphic is displayed.

Replies:   REP
REP
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


That's not correct.


This is precisely why I made the suggestion to Lazeez. Everyone has interpreted what they have read and as a group we have reached different understandings. The only thing I've seen in writing from Lazeez is that the upper and lower 5% of the total votes are dropped before computing the scores. I'm fine with that.

What I haven't seen from a credible source is a statement regarding where the displayed vote values are obtained. Lazeez stated previously that he was dropping the upper and lower 5% of the total votes to hopefully end the dissension regarding the 1-bombers. That indicates the remaining vote count is what is displayed on the histogram. Otherwise, the 1-bomber votes would be displayed by the histogram.

I and others in this thread seem to believe the Vote field's values are total votes. The 5% rule is applied to the total votes and the remaining votes appear in the histogram and used to compute the score.

I may not be correct, but your just stating a different opinion does not make me wrong. Prove it and I will modify my beliefs.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Ernest Bywater

OK, People, here's where Lazeez has the actual description of the scoring process.

https://storiesonline.net/h/8/how-are-scores-calculated-and-how-does-scoring-work-in-general

In his blog are entries that go back many years which mention some of the past changes to the scoring process. One of those entries says the 5% adjustment doesn't kick in until 20 votes are in, which is why I thought it didn't display until then. However, I did find another entry that the display of the score kicked in after 15 votes were lodged.

I'm not sure how well the counting of the votes goes in regards to including the top 5%s or not because way back when once you voted you couldn't vote on a story again. However, a few years back the system was changed to allow you to change your vote. I don't know if doing that affects the vote count total or not. While I suspect it doesn't I don't know.

Ernest Bywater

Now to deal with the author stats side of the issue and the actual vote count. While it's very hard to estimate the number of votes in the bars of the bar graph except for the one with the most votes which has a count beside it, one of my stories has a low enough number of votes to make it possible to correctly judge the number of votes.

Displayed votes are 5 votes of 6, 7 votes of 7, 5 votes of 8, 8 votes of 8, and 4 votes of 10 for Revenge for the School which adds up to 29 votes and the vote count is 31 votes registered. This makes sense as the graph is showing what's used in the calculation which is 31 votes less 5% of the votes which only adjusts by whole numbers, so the next dropping of votes will occur when it gets to 40 votes and it will display 36 votes in the graph.

Thus the vote count is the real number of votes lodged while the graph shows only the votes used in the score calculation.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@REP

I and others in this thread seem to believe the Vote field's values are total votes. The 5% rule is applied to the total votes and the remaining votes appear in the histogram and used to compute the score.

Sorry, I misunderstood. When you said that the chart displayed the "total number of votes", I assumed you meant that they included the 10% of votes which were dropped from the scoring algorithm. If that's not what you intended, then we agree on this.

Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

Thus the vote count is the real number of votes lodged while the graph shows only the votes used in the score calculation.

Thanks, Ernest. It's nice to finally put at least one argument to bed (or is that a cliche too)?

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