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story as a sudy in ethics?

Freyrs_stories ๐Ÿšซ

I'm working on a story series (don't expect to see it before the end of the year at the earliest) but on of the points I'd like to do is examine ethical theories such as greatest over all good with or without least harm etc.

The idea for the story is to look at an ethical theory in each major sector of the story. Say 5 or 6 ethical theories. I've done ethics as University so a quick rehash of my notes will be required but I like the idea of injecting a theory in each 'book' not chapters as they're part of a very long arc with minor ones in each book/story.

the source of the premise is that there is a plot device driving 'development' but it too is learning. It's been around for about 200 Years at the start of the story. It may have kick started the industrial revolution. but I have to do a reasonable amount of reading on that to see what I can cherry pick as caused by the influence of the device.

love to hear some thoughts on this especially schools of thought on which ethical models to include and how that will affect the story. the order of them will be more based on how well they fit the story rather than any perceived rightness of each theory.

I would like to be able to use the standard two axis diagram. Legal and ethical / Legal and not ethical.
Illegal and ethical / Illegal and not ethical. I'd like to have to make some sort of decisions for the MC on that matrix. So that for each book he explores a school of ethics and learns from it each time.

the overall path is one of degradation then final redemption when all the schools are put together. but i see this Idea getting very messy very quickly. I want to do more than shoehorn the ethics in. I want to use them as a guide to the MC's actions even though they may not make the 'best' decision for that model by the end of each book. but by the end of the last book he puts together a 'vision' that mixes and matches these schools into something that can work over all and finally redeem themselves and perhaps humanity too.

Discussion here is good. if you want to have a more rigorous to and fro, we can start with the message system and maybe move to email if that's a good way to go. but for here at least I think a 'High school' level of theory will be fine. it give me time to find my notes and refresh my memory a bit. then we can look at at tertiary level of debate.

Looking forward to all your responses, what ever they are.

Keet ๐Ÿšซ

@Freyrs_stories

Legal or illegal depends a lot on the time period. Many subjects change either way over time so, assuming it's a fictional story, you can maybe use that to fit into what you need. I think I personally have a pretty high standard of ethics but I have no idea about the theories surrounding the subject.

Replies:   Freyrs_stories
Freyrs_stories ๐Ÿšซ

@Keet

set approximately 50 years in the future, but there will be limited flash backs on the devices previous 'owners'.
So i have a fair bit ow wriggle room on some of the legal stuff. I'm gonna need it for some of the ideas I want to pursue.

I'm gonna strip some ideas from the very early 'Dune' books. Specifically the first 3 trilogies. but mostly from legends of Dune and Great schools of Dune. Presently reading my way through them one at a time. some if it is pretty heavy going and I find some of the wording very confusing not coming from an English background till my school years and spending them playing catch up a LOT.

These ideas are not unique to Dune but it is one of the best and most well known examples of what I'm talking about. though there is no machine uprising and human enslavement, but only because there are extreme measures earl on that prevent that in the first place. so out MC has to contend with those limitations to 'improve' things on a technological level.

the whole story will cover around 30 years in slices of a few years at a time, though there will be large slices where nothing happens. So don't go expecting 'Arlene & Jeff'. but if I include all the flash backs and other tropes then we're looking at 250 years is max.

I think two of the main schools I want to include and may do on more than one occasion are the ends justify the means and greatest good for greatest population. there's 4-5 schools i want to look at. I really need to drag out my ethics notes and re-read them a few times.

Remus2 ๐Ÿšซ

@Freyrs_stories

In a general sense, ethics are a subjective mess however they are treated.
Due to that, you can make whatever you want of them.

Replies:   Freyrs_stories
Freyrs_stories ๐Ÿšซ

@Remus2

OK, so i skimmed over my notes and these are the points I want to look at as arcs.

Consequence Based :

Act Utilitarianism

Rule utilitarianism

Duty Based:

Act Deontology (Ross)

Rule Deontology (Kant)

Contract based (Hobbs)

Character based (Aristotle)

Consequentialism (Moor)

some time tomorrow I'll post descriptions of these but they are the basic models I want to work with. the order is not important.

Replies:   Remus2
Remus2 ๐Ÿšซ

@Freyrs_stories

After looking those up I've come to the conclusion someone had way to much time on their hands. Unfortunately, it's time in my life I can never get back. So what does your ethics study say about wasting people's time who are on the backside of 65?
This sounds a lot like a deliberate attempt to stir up shit and debate. If thats your goal, go to Facebook or Twitter. Your going to get a better response there. They are full of gender study and ethics study types.
As for a book, a piece of advice. Never try to be smarter than your reader. It comes off as condescending.

richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Freyrs_stories

ethicks would be something thick on line, like email is mail on line. Something fat? ethins would be its opposite.

joyR ๐Ÿšซ

@Freyrs_stories

Looking forward to all your responses, what ever they are.

Start with a study of spellcheck.

Replies:   Freyrs_stories
Freyrs_stories ๐Ÿšซ

@joyR

yer, the spell checker in my web browser sucks and English is like my 5th language so sue me if i'm a little loose with the finer points in a forum post. I'm much more through with a word processor. here I just type and run. putting in a response as quickly as possible and running on to the next dumpster fire that is the daily cycle of my life.

Replies:   Remus2
Remus2 ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Freyrs_stories

yer, the spell checker in my web browser sucks and English is like my 5th language so sue me if i'm a little loose with the finer points in a forum post.

here I just type and run.

So you're too lazy to communicate clearly with the people you're asking to help you. I don't care if it's your 10th language. My wife is fluent in seven languages, she has never used such a bullshit excuse.

Kacius ๐Ÿšซ

@Freyrs_stories

If you want to consider the effect of ethical decisions impacting generations like in Dune series, you may want to also consider reading Foundation or Three Body Problem as studies in that.

Replies:   Freyrs_stories
Freyrs_stories ๐Ÿšซ

@Kacius

will look into it. I've heard of both of them, but never seen a copy

Grey Wolf ๐Ÿšซ

@Freyrs_stories

Getting in late on this discussion, but I'd also suggest checking out 'The Good Place' (originally on NBC, now probably available via various streaming services, etc). One of the main characters is an ethicist and the show routinely gets into ethical dilemmas, both from a discussion standpoint and from characters actually getting into them.

One of the best TV series I've ever seen, start to finish. If the early episodes read a bit as 'silly situation comedy', just wait - there's more going on than you're seeing, and the show never spends all that much time doing one thing before it starts doing something significantly different.

And do not - DO NOT - read spoilers. Just don't.

Replies:   Freyrs_stories
Freyrs_stories ๐Ÿšซ

@Grey Wolf

yer, I got half way through season 4 before life got in the road. will get back to it sooner or later. have to say I kinda picked the 'twist' in season one. they kinda harped on a point and that was the give away ;)

Replies:   Grey Wolf
Grey Wolf ๐Ÿšซ

@Freyrs_stories

As with many well-done twists, I believe the story holds up just fine if you see it - but it's better to discover it for yourself, whenever you discover it.

The Sixth Sense would, I think, be a better film if you could go into it having never heard the single most famous phrase from the movie (omitted on the unlikely chance that someone doesn't know the phrase). It's not just the 'twist', which is well done, but the movie plays out as a very well done piece of suspense for the first half, since (without that phrase) you have no particular idea what's going on with Cole.

I consider myself fairly spoiler-tolerant, but it's still often the case that a work is better when discovered without them. On the other hand, if it falls apart when you know the spoiler/twist/etc, then at least it has little replay value.

One forgets that probably the most common phrase/joke/meme around Soylent Green was, at the time, an enormous spoiler.

Radagast ๐Ÿšซ

@Freyrs_stories

One area where the law may not have caught up with tech: incest.
Incest is illegal in most western societies because of
A) The chance of negative recessive genes being expressed.
B) The possibility / probability of covert coercion being used to obtain sexual compliance.
C) Lack of outbreeding causes tribalism.
D) Molested people tend to be mentally broken.

What if siblings or parent & child conceive a baby using artificial insemination, with the female using the hypothetical turkey baster. No sexual penetration has occurred, yet all four negatives above are potentially in play. Legally would that be incest? I would argue its definitely unethical but is it illegal? What if the female is underage? A true virgin birth is possible today, even if it is undesirable to most.

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