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Flipping the script

tendertouch

See Janna Leonard's stories. In particular Nollie and, IIRC, Hannah. I know there are others out there but they're escaping me at the moment.

tendertouch

A quick page through my downloaded stories netted Don Lockwood's Heroes, Cindy for Sin's Close to Home (unfinished), LindaB's Passing of Seasons (unfinished), rlfj's Memoirs of a Young Victorian Lady, Sea-Life's Walker Between the Worlds, Tammikinz's My Little Sister and, it could be argued, The Night Hawk's Once More With Feelings.

Jedd11

Tendertouch, thanks for the info, but it wasn't quite what I was looking for. I read a few of your suggestions, and don't get me wrong, they were enjoyable reads. But I was looking, and hoping someone could write, something on the epic scale as the stories I mentioned, just with a female lead.
Party of Five was the smallest with 20 chapters, and it was abandoned unfinished. Just the Six of Us had 30. Summer Camp, An Ordinary Sex Life, the Milf List series, A Well Lived Life, and Twice Lucky, all have multiple books with multiple chapters. I'm looking, and again hoping very much, some talented writer, maybe an up and comer looking to make a name for themself, can take up the challenge and pull it off. I'm serious when I think this could win a Clitorides. I just write too boring too do it myself.
I appreciate your suggestions though, and plan to read some more. They are nice little reads, even if they are a bit short. Thanks for the input.
Jedd

Replies:   Geek of Ages
Geek of Ages

@Jedd11

I'm serious when I think this could win a Clitorides.


Any concept could win a Clitorides, if done well.

Jedd11

Very valid point. But it has been my observation that coming of age tales seem to do exceptionally well. Though as you said, they must be done well, as the mentioned stories were. That's why I thought an up and comer might want to give it a shot. A proven concept like that, if they can pull it off, could get their name out there. I just know I couldn't do it. My writing, while good technically, is too wooden and boring. Readers would boo me off the site. Once they woke up that is. Lol. Thanks for the reply.
Jedd

Jedd11

GOA, actually come to think of it, I have read some of your stories. While not the epic tomes I referred to in this post, I really enjoyed some, particularly the Hitchhiker series, which I had always wished there was more coming. Your plant story was a bit twisted though. Lol. But you did state that up front. While I agree with your profile that readers should read what they wish, I have never understood some readers who see what the story is about, proceed to read the story, then complain about the content. Why did you read it?! You knew that! Anyway, good to hear from an author I have enjoyed here. And thanks for the response.
Jedd

Replies:   Geek of Ages
Geek of Ages

@Jedd11

Thank you; I appreciate learning that people enjoyed my stories.

I, too, have wished for more female-narrator coming-of-age and especially do-over stories. I've even contemplated a couple concepts for them, though it would require more commitment than I'd be willing to give.

My I, Newbie series is a distillation of some of my thoughts, though: while it's not a true coming-of-age series or a real do-over, it *is* about an older man who becomes a teenage girl and has to deal with life like that. It's a pretty niche appeal, though, and I've no idea if I've coded it at all reasonably. But it might be kind of up your alley in that regard.

However, the authorship on this site skews extremely heavily towards old and male, which is why we don't get much from a perspective that hasn't been done to death.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Jedd11

Geek of Ages, you are quite welcome. I have always felt readers should give due to writers they enjoy, especially when it's free as many of this site's stories are.
I will try your I, Newbie story. As you said, it sounds like a niche tale, but I will check it out. Actually I am not generally a fan of do over/time travel, but something about Twice Lucky made me continue reading. And once I suspended that belief and just read about his life and loves, ( and his sister Debbie's), I really enjoyed it.
I see your point of authorship skewing towards older and male, but while I think a female author may have a better perspective writing my longed for female coming of age story, I don't discount a male pulling it off. I would certainly give it a read, even if I stopped after a couple chapters.
Finally, in reference to another unfinished series, I have a question directed towards you. The town of Haven series by A Strange Geek is another of those not normally my cup of tea, but yet I couldn't stop reading. I know it's a long shot, but I have to ask. A Strange Geek and Geek of Ages are a couple unusual nom de plumes. Any chance you are the same person, are related, or at least know each other? Again, I know it is unlikely, but I just felt I'd throw that out there and see if it stuck. That is one more series that desperately needs finishing. Thanks for writing.
Jedd

Replies:   Geek of Ages
Geek of Ages

@Jedd11

There's always a chance, but as I do not broadcast my business here into my public sphere, there's little opportunity to learn of such coincidences.

Jedd11

Lol. Duly noted. I'll just say that if you do fit one of those categories, the town of Haven is in sore need of a return visit. Lots going on in that town. Very interesting things indeed.
Jedd

Jedd11

Hello SOL world. I noticed the thread hadn't gotten a comment in a while, so I just wanted to keep it fresh in the public eye. Briefly, an author going by JoeJ wrote a story called Twice Lucky. Give it a read, as imho, it is an awesome, well written tale, with plenty of hot monkey sex.
Our hero has an older sister named Debbie, however, who actually interests me even more than Jake. My plea is for someone to take up her POV. Let us hear of her life, sex and otherwise, before Jake occupies her brother's body. Let us hear of her affairs, from her first, to her times with Jake, to her awakening of her bisexuality, to her realization she has a talent for identifying meek, submissive girls/women, to her conquest of said women, including Laurie, Marisa, Cindy, Maria, and hints at her mother, younger sister, distant cousins who were discovered, and others perhaps not mentioned. Perhaps even taming Jake's wayward daughter and others.
JoeJ has not posted to this since 2009. Clearly it is an unfinished tale. I have seen in some places, though I cannot verify this, that after five years of abandonment, an author's story is fair game to be finished by another. Again, I don't know the validity of this.
But what I propose would not even encroach upon that. I dearly hope for some to write, not a continuation, nor even a sequel, but rather a spinoff from Debbie's POV. Honestly it is a tale yearning to be told. Short of that though, just a coming of age tale from a female POV. In my original post, I listed several such stories and their authors which have garnered a ton of reads and awards. Clearly this type of story is very popular, but is always done from a male perspective. Now I don't discount a male could possibly write the story, but I would think it logical a female writer would have more insight.
So how about it people, especially you lady authors? Is this type of epic coming of age tale, with all its angst, drama, growth, and yes, hot monkey sex, within your wheelhouse? I'm hoping someone can answer the calling. Thanks for listening.
Jedd

Replies:   Keet  REP
Keet
Updated:

@Jedd11

I have seen in some places, though I cannot verify this, that after five years of abandonment, an author's story is fair game to be finished by another. Again, I don't know the validity of this.


I have no idea where you read this because a writer's copyright does not just expire after five years. There was a thread with a discussion about this:

http://storiesonline.net/d/s2/t3755/when-is-it-ok-to-write-a-story-using-characters-or-continue

REP

@Jedd11

Two things Jedd11:

This section of the Forum is to present ideas for new stories. If you want to talk about a story, go to the Story Discussion and Feedback section.

Second the copyright on a story is generally considered to be for the life of the author and after his death the estate owns the copyright for another 70 years.

This is common in most countries although the after death duration varies.

There are also copyright durations based on the publication and creation dates.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries%27_copyright_lengths

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@REP

Second the copyright on a story is generally considered to be for the life of the author and after his death the estate owns the copyright for another 70 years.


That's the Bern Convention standard. US copyright law is different.

Under the US 1909 copyright act (anything copyrighted in the US prior to 1976) the term of a copyright was 20 years renewable once and once only for a second 20 years.

The US 1976 copyright act matched the term specified in the Bern convention (at least for works with a human author) at life of the author + 70 years. There are some works where the author under US copyright law is a corporation those works have a single fixed term.

However, in the 1990s, the US Congress extended copyright terms for anything still under a valid copyright to life of the author + 90 years.

The term for corporate copyrights currently stands at somewhere around 100 years.

Jedd11

OK, so I checked the link to this thread topic out. Keep in mind I clearly stated I did not know the validity of the continuing an author's story thing. And after reading the thread, it is now clear to me...as mud.
Several commenters posted different views, citing different sources. To me, it appears if you didn't register, your claim would be hard to prove. Also, fan fiction has been done the world over for ages. While I would like to see that story finished, the main focus of my original post was a POV of a supporting character in the story.
Now, I don't recall if this author mentioned his rights in his opening; some do, some don't. It seems though, if an "all rights reserved" type statement is not there, and it is written as fan fiction, it's not truly an infringement. I'm by no means in the legal field; I'm just a huge fan of that story. But as Vlad stated, 99.9 percent of the time, it's the attornies who win. I recall David Bowie filing against that atrocious Vanilla Ice, stating the riff in the latter's Ice Ice Baby was stolen from Bowie's Under Pressure. Ice countered he just "sampled" the riff, because there was an extra note at the end. Yeah sure, go with that. Ice won. Plus there's the item listed in the thread, where under actual damages, the judgment for damages for an item published as free would be zero dollars.
My point is again, not to take away from this, or any others' accomplishments. I am a big fan of his works. I just would like this story completed, or ideally, the POV of the mentioned sister, Debbie. In fact, there is a fan fic, Tales of the E-Kids, written. Though I found it not really in the same flow of the original.
Finally, as to the this section is for story ideas comment, that's what I did. Oh, I know I can be a bit wordy, and I made multiple points of examples prior to stating the suggestion. But I clearly did have a suggested idea, the POV of Debbie. That I rambled before getting there doesn't negate me throwing the idea out there.
So if nothing else, maybe this discussion can persuade someone to write said story, and/or, and this would be primo, motivate JoeJ to take pen back in hand, since there is a discussion ongoing about the rights of his story.
Thanks to all comments, pro and con.

REP

@Jedd11

And after reading the thread, it is now clear to me...as mud.


Let me clarify it for you.

The person who hold the original copyright on a story owns the world created by the story and the characters created in the story. Other authors do not have the legal write to set stories in that world or use the copyrighted characters without the copyright holders permission.

Fan Fiction authors frequently use copyrighted worlds and characters to create their stories. Even though their stories are new, use of the worlds and characters is a violation of the copyright. That is theft.

Bringing copyright violation charges against all the authors who violate copyright laws by writing fan fiction would bankrupt the copyright holders. It would be virtually impossible. What that means is fan fiction authors are thieves even if they aren't charged, prosecuted, and punished.

Replies:   Jedd11  Zom  Crumbly Writer
Jedd11

@REP

I see you have strong feelings about this, and I respect that. I don't believe it to be as clear cut as you do tbough. There have been others on this thread, and on the linked thread also, who would disagree.

I certainly respect an author's, (or singer, illustrator, etc), talent when they create something. It's almost as if it is their child. Much blood, sweat, and tears go into a creation. But I believe the thievery claim to not only be a matter of opinion, but of degree.

Courts have borne this out depeatedly. Refer to my David Bowie/Vanilla Ice example. Bowie had plenty of assets to ride that decision out in court. Yet they still decided in Ice's favor. Here is a prime example of no talent winning out if ever there was one. Also, if Lazeez allows leeway, I find no cause to question him. I'm sure if it were something egregious, or if he had complaints, it would be addressed.

I believe it to be as another commentor said: You may win the judgment, but if you are posting on a free site, and so is the fanfic guy, you lost nothing, so your reward is nothing. You just have the satisfaction of saying "I won".

I'm not convinced all fanfic is theft, and again, courts seem to verify this. After all, we're told there are only seven different stories anyway. Everything is just a variation of one of these. There would be very little of the arts otherwise. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, after all. Blatant ripoffs is a whole other issue. It just seems you have a different view of ripoffs. Again, a matter of degree.

At any rate, I never intended for this to become a copyright thread. So here is what my original post was intended to convey. I know I was wordy, as I am even now. 1. I REALLY wish JoeJ would finish his story. He's still been around because his stories are not behind the pay bar. 2. I even more so would like to see a story from Debbie's POV. 3. My main goal was to have a coming of age tale from a girl's POV. Something in the vein of this and other great coming of age storie. That is my story idea.

So, I hope someone will pursue this. And, as I saw you had some stories yourself, I wish you well with them. I hope no one ever uses any of your characters. And should you have to tell someone to desist, I hope you come out on top.

Replies:   REP  Crumbly Writer
REP
Updated:

@Jedd11

Despite your wordiness, platitudes, rationales, justifications, and everything else - violating someone's copyright is stealing.

It doesn't matter if it is done once or a million times - it is stealing.

The thief may not make a profit, but it is still stealing.

Replies:   Jedd11
Ernest Bywater

OK. Copyright violation is a theft of an idea. Copyright applies to the characters and the world the author creates. However, it doesn't apply to every possible character name combination and usage or every type of world type. Fan fiction relies on the copyright owner not being bothered to chase the people down and take them to court. Every fan fiction story that uses the characters or the world from another story is a copyright violation - no ifs, no buts, it is a theft of the copyrighted idea. Fan fiction writers are riding the coattails of the original author because they can't be bothered to think up their own world or try to create their own fans to follow them, so they take from the original author's fan base.

Some authors don't mind fan fiction that doesn't use the characters they created but is set in the same universe, some do object but can't be bothered with suing everyone involved. Many sites like SoL allow fan fiction until such time as they get an actual complaint, simply because they don't know if the fan fiction author had permission or not.

If anyone but Rowling writes a story about a magic school called Hogwarts it's fan fiction and a copyright violation. However, anyone who writes a story about Merlin's School of Wizardry set in a world of both magical and non-magical people isn't a copyright violation.

A classic example is the person who wrote a vampire fan fiction then changed all the names to make it not a fan fiction to be able to sell it as an original work. Changing all of the names removed the copyright violations by taking it out of the copyrighted world and placing it into a similar world of a different name. The same can be done with every damn fan fiction out there, but the people who write the fan fiction wouldn't get the stolen fans following them.

John Demille

@Ernest Bywater

The same can be done with every damn fan fiction out there, but the people who write the fan fiction wouldn't get the stolen fans following them.


While I agree on the technicalities of copyright with regards to fan fiction, I'm more pragmatic on it. Things aren't cut and dry.

While fan fiction authors may borrow (I won't call it theft as theft implies depriving the original owner from access/use/benefit of the stolen which doesn't happen when writing fan fiction) from the original author, their contribution to the universe make the universe richer, thus enhancing (well most times) the original author's work.

I may be the exception, but I've never watched Star Trek until after reading an erotic fan fiction story written by Ann Douglas. Technically speaking, Ann Douglas violated the copyright or the original creators of Star Trek, however, the creators of Star Trek didn't lose a thing by her writing a story in their universe and they gained a fan through the fan fiction work.

So, again, while technically fan fiction is a copyright violation, practically, it's harmless (when distributed for free). Actually in my case, fan fiction was beneficial to the original copyright owners as I paid to watch all the movies that were produced.

Fan fiction is wide spread, tolerated, almost never prosecuted and some time encouraged. Why? Well, because most times, the original creator benefit from their universes becoming richer by the contributions of fans writing their fan fiction. Why do authors here on SOL open their universes to other to write in them? Because it makes things more interesting and lively. I'm not talented nor creative enough to create a universe, but if I did, I would be proud if others wanted to write in my universe as it makes me happy to think that I was creative and interesting enough to inspire others to be creative with what I created.

Ernest Bywater

@John Demille

While fan fiction authors may borrow (I won't call it theft as theft implies depriving the original owner from access/use/benefit of the stolen which doesn't happen when writing fan fiction) from the original author, their contribution to the universe make the universe richer, thus enhancing (well most times) the original author's work.


John, there's no reason why they can't write a story of their own without taking the background of another author. Regardless of how you feel about it, the fan fiction authors are frequently distorting and altering the world and environment of the world without the approval of the original author. Thus they are stealing from the original author. there have even been cases where the fan fiction writers have entered into areas the original author was writing and so upset them the original authors have cancelled books because of the trouble with the fan fiction works.

If the fan fiction writers are good enough they can create their world and characters without taking the existing ones from the other authors. If they really cared about the copyright and the ownership they'd ask the copyright owner for permission first, some will give it and some won't.

............

There have been cases where fan fiction writers have disrupted what the original author was planning. While there have also been cases where people got prior approval and have improved the original author's world.

.................

Take a real life example. Lazlo Zalezac created the Damsels in Distress Universe and wrote several stories in that universe then he threw the doors open to allow others to write within the universe, and some took him up on that.

When I started writing in that universe I thought of ways to improve the universe, so I wrote to Lazlo to explain what I wanted to do, and he gave me approval to do so. Thus the universe has changed and it now has more freedom than the original had. However, others have also written stories which didn't adhere to the canon as laid down by Lazlo or as approved by him, and that has caused confusion for some readers about what is and isn't allowed within the DiD Universe.

.......................

Lazlo open his universe to get other authors to expand on it, but he did so with the caveat they stay within the canon, not all have.

The Winds of Change universe is open because the creator of the universe no longer wishes to write in it, but there's room for many stories to be written in it.

I've opened a couple of universes I've created to allow other authors to write in them after they allow me to check the story. I'm thinking of opening some of them up to be fully public because I no longer wish to write in them.

Many people have many reasons for opening up a universe here at SoL, but not all are open to the public to write in.

robberhands
Updated:

@Jedd11

Joe_J's entry at 'Authors Hangout' at 2018-05-03:

Not dead...yet

JJ

Joe_J is alive and kicking. If someone wants to write using a world and/or characters Joe_J created, they have to ask for his permission. It's a matter of ethics. It only becomes a legal issue for people without ethics.

Dominions Son

@Ernest Bywater

Copyright violation is a theft of an idea.


1. No, copyright protects the actual words an idea is expressed with, it does not protect the idea itself.

2. Copyright violations are violations of the law, they are in the vast majority of cases morally and ethically wrong. They are not theft or stealing.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Dominions Son

DS, you're wrong in the way you're applying this.

As I explained, copyright does not protect the basic idea of a school for magic, nor does it protect a normal school named Hogwarts, but it does protect a school for magic named Hogwarts.

Copyright legislation is a law, and breaking the copyright is an unlawful act (or an illegal act if you want to use that term). It is the theft of the idea of another, just as breaking a patent law is a theft of an idea. In the most extreme cases copyright violations steals income from the copyright owner by selling false copies to people who could have bought the real thing from the copyright owner.

Fan fiction nibbles at the edges, but can have just as bad an effect in some cases.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Jedd11

@REP

Nope. Opinion only. You may think so, but if courts say otherwise, then so be it. There are other posts here and on the linked thread who disagree with you. And many who agree with you. Some even split the middle. So with differences of thought, I defer to the law. I know there is much the courts get wrong, but the law is the law. It can be changed, certainly. But until it is changed, I'll go with that. By your unwavering standard, probably everyone here is stealing. The whole only seven original ideas and all. Though I still honestly wish you well with your own particular stories. And, for that matter, anyone else who feels that strongly about fanfic.

Big issue though: Joe_J, it was reported you are still out there, having been spotted in the authors hangout in March. So it is my hope that you stumble across this thread, or someone you are still in contact with alerts you to it. It was your story that started all this, though not intentionally. I merely wanted you to finish said awesome story, or have someone do a female POV in the same vein. Despite all the disagreements between posts here and on the linked thread regarding copyrights, one thing is indisputable to me. No one can do a story like the creator. If that makes me a fanboy, as opposed to fanfic, so be it. Please dude, come back and give us more of Second Time.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Zom

@REP

The person who hold the original copyright on a story owns the world created by the story

Would you agree with "A major limitation on copyright is that copyright protects only the original expression of ideas, and not the underlying ideas themselves."?

Replies:   PotomacBob  REP  Crumbly Writer
PotomacBob

@Zom

So, Fox News called itself "Fair and Balanced" and trademarked that phrase. Does that mean nobody else's work can be fair and balanced?

Replies:   REP  Ernest Bywater  Zom
REP

@Zom

If I understand what you mean, yes. Ernest expressed my opinion very well.

Authors cannot copyright general story realms, concepts, and ideas such as: murder mystery, magic, fiction, and others.

However, they can copyright a specific story set in those realms. They can also copyright specific story worlds and concepts that they create, such as: Hogwarts, Star Trek, the Damsels in Distress Universe, The Swarm Cycle Universe, etc.

REP

@PotomacBob

Does that mean nobody else's work can be fair and balanced?


Trademarks and copyrights are very different things.

Replies:   richardshagrin
Ernest Bywater

@PotomacBob

So, Fox News called itself "Fair and Balanced" and trademarked that phrase. Does that mean nobody else's work can be fair and balanced?


Trademark is a very different thing to copyright, and many trademarks like that are often not upheld in court, while most are limited to the industry they're in. Like registered business name the trademarks are usually restricted to their business field and only restrict those within the same business. Mind you trademarked business names are another issue due to the complexity with the registered business name laws adding to the situation.

richardshagrin

@REP

fair and balanced

Fair is between unsatisfactory and okay. Between a D and a C grade in school. They may have said "and balanced" but they mean unbalanced.

Dominions Son

@Ernest Bywater

DS, you're wrong in the way you're applying this.

As I explained, copyright does not protect the basic idea of a school for magic, nor does it protect a normal school named Hogwarts, but it does protect a school for magic named Hogwarts.


No, you are the one who is applying this wrong.

The US Supreme Court has been quite clear on this, "a school for magic named Hogwarts." is a particular expression of an idea, not the idea itself.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Dominions Son

The US Supreme Court has been quite clear on this, "a school for magic named Hogwarts." is a particular expression of an idea, not the idea itself.


I've not seen a US Supreme Court ruling saying that, but I'll accept you may have. However, the Harry Potter series is copyrighted under UK law and the US recognises and upholds the UK copyright laws, and under the UK laws a story set in the magical school of Hogwarts is a copyright infringement, while a story set in the magic school of Madam moth is not a copy right infringement. Most countries around the world will uphold the same meaning.

As i said a magic school is not copyrighted, nor is a school called Hogwarts, but together the magic school called Hogwarts is copyrighted.

Dominions Son

@Ernest Bywater

I've not seen a US Supreme Court ruling saying that, but I'll accept you may have.


Not in regards to the Harry Potter stories specifically, but there are many decisions as well as the text of the US copyright act itself, that make it clear that ideas are not protected at all under US copyright law, only particular expressions of ideas are protected.

As a result, US Federal courts from the district courts all the way up to SCOTUS have had to get more specific about what is just an idea vs what is a particular expression of an idea.

Replies:   REP
awnlee jawking

@Ernest Bywater

Dan Brown even used the same character names from the story he "didn't" plagiarise, but he apparently didn't violate its copyright.

AJ

REP

@Dominions Son

Sounds to me that you and EB are saying the same thing but using slightly different words.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@REP

Sounds to me that you and EB are saying the same thing but using slightly different words.


The words used matter, particularly if you want to go into court to enforce a copyright.

Zom

@PotomacBob

Does that mean nobody else's work can be fair and balanced?

No, it just means that they can't identify news using that phrase.

Grant

Existing thread.

REP

What happened ? ? ?

This thread was initiated by Judd11, but the first post was made by tendertouch.

It looks like Judd11 deleted his original post.

Crumbly Writer

@Geek of Ages

I, too, have wished for more female-narrator coming-of-age and especially do-over stories. I've even contemplated a couple concepts for them, though it would require more commitment than I'd be willing to give.

I know that others have done it more frequently, but asking a male author to write not just a quick female centric story but an epic might be asking a bit much. A better question to ask is: why can't we attact minority authors (women, blacks, Hispanics, Indians, etc.) to post stories to SOL.

We've gotten a few female authors, though they either tend to write shorter stories, churn out the same male-centric plots everyone else does, or don't stick around for long.

I wrote one story with a strong female lead, A House in Disarray, because it fit the story, and I think I did a decent job of it, but it was only had 18 chapters.

Replies:   PotomacBob
Crumbly Writer

@Jedd11

Several commenters posted different views, citing different sources. To me, it appears if you didn't register, your claim would be hard to prove. Also, fan fiction has been done the world over for ages. While I would like to see that story finished, the main focus of my original post was a POV of a supporting character in the story.

I think you're confusing different issues. A copyright is valid as of the writing of it, there's no need to register the copyright. All registration does is to extend the legal protections, allowing an author to sue for non-financial losses (i.e. penalties), but registration costs $75 per book, and for those of us who post via multiple sites, that could mean as many of three to five versions of each book!

Where I think the confusion comes in, is there's been a LOT of discussion of Fan Fiction. While clearly in violation of copyright, many authors allow such works to be freely posted, as does SOL, in the belief that, if they don't abuse the privilege, it actually benefits the original author by reminding readers of their original works. However, if the original author requests the works be taken down, SOL has no choice but to comply. BYW, as far as I understand it, SOL only allows it for SOL authors who's works are no longer managed by anyone (i.e. they've since died and their families either don't know of their writing or simply have no interest in it). But as they say, that's 'a whole different kettle of fish'.

Crumbly Writer

@REP

The person who hold the original copyright on a story owns the world created by the story and the characters created in the story.

Technically, that's not true. Copyright only protects the words on a page, not the story ideas. However, this remains a largely gray area, as an author can seriously injure their reputation if readers suspect they based their story on someone's else's work—especially if they don't credit them and then attempt to profit from the previous authors name-recognition.

Crumbly Writer

@Jedd11

I'm not convinced all fanfic is theft, and again, courts seem to verify this. After all, we're told there are only seven different stories anyway. Everything is just a variation of one of these. There would be very little of the arts otherwise. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, after all. Blatant ripoffs is a whole other issue. It just seems you have a different view of ripoffs. Again, a matter of degree.

Simply put, most people consider Fan Fiction to be outright theft of another's original creation by those incapable of coming up with anything original of their own. However, that's typically between the two authors. If the original authors allows it, then it's OK, although there have been abundant instances where an author allows fan fiction, the FF author tries to 'guess' what the original authors next book is about, and thereby ruins the party for everyone as the author, having lost their next paycheck with their publisher, pulls the plug on everyone!

If you want to write a Fan Fiction piece, it's best to ask first whether it's generally 'allowable'. If it is, try not to step on the original authors toes, and credit them in your work, rather than trying to claim their work as your own.

Crumbly Writer

@John Demille

So, again, while technically fan fiction is a copyright violation, practically, it's harmless (when distributed for free). Actually in my case, fan fiction was beneficial to the original copyright owners as I paid to watch all the movies that were produced.

More often, at $75 a pop for every variation of a published work, many authors simply can't afford to register each of their works, so suing someone as a deterrent (i.e. future losses lost due to someone else undermining your future story) is difficult to do. But that's hardly "harmless", as it diminishes the authors 'brand', a badly written copycat piece reflects poorly on the original author, and in the end, many people tend to read the FF rather than the original authors works, meaning they're LOSING money, whether the FF charges anyone for it for not!

Crumbly Writer

@Jedd11

Nope. Opinion only. You may think so, but if courts say otherwise, then so be it.

Let's put it this way, Mr. Legal Expert who's never visited a court room or ever written anything. If you steal my story ideas by writing a sequel to one of my books, I will sue you, and you can argue with the judge whether you're freewheeling ideas about FF being 'legitimate' hold any weight in a court of law!

You're arguing a losing case here, because you've got NOactual evidence to back it up.

But, back to your original point, there's nothing wrong with requesting more women to write do-over Coming of Age stories, but please, don't encourage anyone to steal someone else's ideas or premises in doing so. Either create an original work of art, or go get a real job doing something else. You wouldn't walk into someone business place, sit down at an empty desk and expect to be paid, so why do you think you can 'borrow' an author's entire universe and get away with not having put in the grunt work which made it successful in the first place?

Crumbly Writer

@Zom

Would you agree with "A major limitation on copyright is that copyright protects only the original expression of ideas, and not the underlying ideas themselves."?

They own the specifics, but not the general concepts. Thus no one 'owns' do-overs or Coming of Age stories, but several people hold copyrights to the mentioned works the original poster is suggesting someone else steal!

PotomacBob

@Crumbly Writer

A better question to ask is:


The best question to ask is: Why is a big book heavy? The point of the sarcastic question is: What makes one question BETTER than another?

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