For me it is repeating something over and over where you go ok enough is enough.
Case in point the story I am reading right now where people laugh it each other till someone gets mad. 10-20 times in a story is one thing but over 100 times gets boring. For another writer every woman must go on and on about how her man holds her breast during sleep.
Sorry for the rant.
For another writer every woman must go on and on about how her man holds her breast during sleep.
That'll be Morgan.
I agree. There are a lot of ways to let the reader know that something happens repeatedly in a story without spending half a page going over the whole thing every time it happens.
When its clear that the author of a story has never held a simple conversation with another human in his/her entire life, because the dialogue is absurd.
Thats one of my biggest pet peeves.
When its clear that the author of a story has never held a simple conversation with another human in his/her entire life, because the dialogue is absurd.
One of the problems I have when writing is structuring a revelatory conversation such that the facts are revealed in a logical order. It feels forced when I write it and I lack feedback, positive or negative, from independent readers :(
AJ
Lack of realism, or an acceptable reasoning for the lack of realism. Kills the story every time. It's why I can't read the NIS series.
If there's magic or aliens or some other explanation that sets the universe apart from reality, I'm generally okay with a lack of "realism" to some degree. But there's always going to be points where you just can't go because humans aren't going to do things like that, i.e. kids being sent to magical school even though it's known that there are minimal protections for them and everyone's armed - even the bullies.
Lack of realism, or an acceptable reasoning for the lack of realism.
I really, really hate conversations of the form:
"Mary Sue, you're so wonderful, aren't you."
"Yes, I am, I'm so wonderful, aren't I!"
AJ
Let me preface this by saying I like a certain author's stories enough that I have read everything he posted, some of them more than once.
But... He is the absolute king of superfluous, expository dialog that would never, ever, be uttered aloud by any human with an IQ above room temperature.
His dialog is the standard by which I judge mine; if my dialog doesn't suck as much as his, I feel like I am doing okay.
That's all I can say without identifying the author and I would never call someone out on here so let me close with this.
How often, when chatting with someone, does a line of dialog last more than a sentence? Two? Three? If your reply does not require a backstory, then you are delivering a monologue and no one likes that. Your character should talk less and listen more (and trust the reader to catch inferences...)
That's all I can say without identifying the author and I would never call someone out on here so let me close with this.
It's bad form to tease people like that and NOT reveal the individual. If you don't wish to reveal, then you shouldn't have mentioned it in the first place.
Name the individual and let us make our own decision.
It's bad form to tease people like that and NOT reveal the individual. If you don't wish to reveal, then you shouldn't have mentioned it in the first place.
I did that once where I mention it was a great story but bad editing was bashed for naming the writer. That's why I didn't name the writer this time.
human with an IQ above room temperature.
To some extent temperature can be over a fairly intelligent level. If you are in Death Valley, the record temperature of 134 is several standard deviations of IQ above the mean of 100.
"The hottest air temperature ever recorded in Death Valley (Furnace Creek) was 134°F (57°C) on July 10, 1913. During the heat wave that peaked with that record, five consecutive days reached 129° F (54°C) or above."
How often, when chatting with someone, does a line of dialog last more than a sentence?
I am intentionally guilty of your accusation; even if I am not the author you have in mind.
I am frequently involved in conversations where I and the other speakers use more than 2 or 3 sentences to make our points.
In my mind, there is a tradeoff in writing.
1. Present a dialogue of multiple sentences that clearly defines the initial speaker's point and reduces the overall length of the conversation (i.e. minimizes the number of sentences in the overall conversation).
2. Go through a lengthy ping-pong exchange of single-sentence dialog, possibly between multiple speakers, in order to make the original speaker's point clear. This approach typically leads to an increase in the number of sentences in the conversation.
I prefer to present a lengthier initial statement that defines the point clearly and then let the subsequent dialogue contest the initial speaker's position.
The longer ping-pong conversations are also more difficult to write. I also like to have my dialogue reflect a real-life conversation, and in real-life, there are too many possibilities for the conversation to diverge onto related issues. The more speakers involved in the conversation, the longer the conversation becomes and the greater the possibility of the speakers diverging onto other issues. This is based on my observations of the real-life conversations that I have been involved in.
I get that, and I get that it can be a tradeoff, but constant oversharing is something most people avoid like the plague, or they avoid those who do it.
The best example (from the author in question) I can think of off the top of my head is this:
You are going to a travel agent. You have three, equally fun destinations in mind, the only deciding factor is which destination has the earliest departure time (you are in a hurry to get going!)
So, do you A) Ask which destination has the an aircraft leaving the soonest? Or B) Spend three paragraphs telling the travel agent about everything you might want to do at each of the three destinations before FINALLY getting around to asking which flight leaves first?
HINT: The travel agent is never heard from again and is not an integral part of the story.
That is the kind of thing I am talking about. It is much like this fictional dialog:
"Hey, Joe, how's it goin?"
"It's going good, but the other night I had a dream about a thing that didn't happen but it might have because it is totally plausible and it reminded me of this total non sequitur that has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation so let me explain it in painful detail before I conclude my remarks with, Good, and you?"
So, do you A) Ask which destination has the an aircraft leaving the soonest? Or B) Spend three paragraphs telling the travel agent about everything you might want to do at each of the three destinations before FINALLY getting around to asking which flight leaves first?
HINT: The travel agent is never heard from again and is not an integral part of the story.
Damn, I bet any reviewers only gave it a 10 for Quality ;-)
AJ
That's all I can say without identifying the author and I would never call someone out on here so let me close with this.
It's probably a symptom of my reading too much (and consequently writing too little) that I can think of several authors who suffer that failing, including possibly myself :-(
AJ
How often, when chatting with someone, does a line of dialog last more than a sentence? Two? Three?
Politicians and preachers come to mind.
Politicians and preachers come to mind.
I found your problem, don't chat with politicians and preachers! I make it a rule to never chat with someone who makes their living lying to other people.
someone who makes their living lying to other people
Authors of Fiction?
As Banadin says, Fiction is all true, except for a lie or two.
I guess if the author isn't exceptionally profitable he or she doesn't make their living writing fiction.
Authors of Fiction?
Fiction authors tell tales, biographers tell lies. Oh! And those that write the history books, of course.
How often, when chatting with someone, does a line of dialog last more than a sentence?
Depending on who you are with, many conversations - particularly those involving more than 2 people - aren't actually conducted in sentences. You get a phrase, or an incomplete sentence, then someone else finishes the sentence or talks over the first person, at the same time as someone else throws in two words.
Teens and children are particularly likely to talk this way when in a small group but I've seen enough adults do it to believe it can happen anywhere.
but I've seen enough adults do it to believe it can happen anywhere.
Sure, it can happen anywhere. That doesn't mean it happens to every conversation.
BarBar: but I've seen enough adults do it to believe it can happen anywhere.
DS: Sure, it can happen everywhere. That doesn't mean it happens to every conversation.
I agree. Hence my use of the phrase: "Depending on who you are with, many conversations ..."
Depending on who you are with, many conversations - particularly those involving more than 2 people - aren't actually conducted in sentences. You get a phrase, or an incomplete sentence, then someone else finishes the sentence or talks over the first person, at the same time as someone else throws in two words.
Indeed, the only conversations that are generally conducted in complete sentences (in my experience) are with total strangers and physicians.
How often, when chatting with someone, does a line of dialog last more than a sentence? Two? Three? If your reply does not require a backstory, then you are delivering a monologue and no one likes that. Your character should talk less and listen more (and trust the reader to catch inferences...)
Maybe you're talking about my stories. When my characters are professors, they go on and on. I go on and on when talking. And I know another -- neither of us a professor -- who goes on until I interrupt, and I go on until he iterrupts.
"But, Mommy, if Bob didn't talk with his mouth full, he would starve to death."
For another writer every woman must go on and on about how her man holds her breast during sleep.
Yay for monobreasted women!
AJ
I cant put up with Harem stories or sex with underage kids... I like sex stories as much as the next guy..but get real....i skim over them parts of the stories...a couple of my favorite writers can't seem to understand that their stories don't need that in them to be good...they have some awesome story plots, that are great without kiddie porn or sex with 1880 women a week
Yea, those harem stories are something else. I don't mind them so long as there's some magic or aliens that somehow make it possible for the guy to perform like the stories say he is. Goes back to my point about realism -- no guy is bopping a handful of babes every week without help from aliens or magic!
Kids? As long as they're teens, I can be somewhat okay with it unless it's a dark tale. If the story revolves around teens going through life, I'm cool with them having sex because.... that's what teens tend to do. Especially if there are aliens or magic involved. ;)
Yea, those harem stories are something else. I don't mind them so long as there's some magic or aliens that somehow make it possible for the guy to perform like the stories say he is. Goes back to my point about realism -- no guy is bopping a handful of babes every week without help from aliens or magic!
That's what happened to one of the top writer on this site where his guy ends up with 15+ wives he takes care of in one go and that was just to much for me.
That's what happened to one of the top writer on this site where his guy ends up with 15+ wives he takes care of in one go and that was just to much for me.
Yeah, 15 in one go is too much. However if he's in decent shape, and more creative than tab A vs slots B,C, and D, than 2 or 3 should be doable.
15+ wives
VeryWellAged has a story named 15 and he has 15 wives. He takes care of two or three a night and keeps the others pregnant to reduce the demand for his services. Of course he is in his late 50s or even older as the story progresses. I think in some of his stories he uses Viagra a lot.
The conversations That drive me nuts are when the writer doesn't make it clear just who is talking. Like when two or people are talking to each other in the same paragraph.
The conversations That drive me nuts are when the writer doesn't make it clear just who is talking. Like when two or people are talking to each other in the same paragraph.
That applies to actions too. I recently read a paragraph that made me stop and go back to re-read it.
X (a female) performed an action. Then she laid her head in X's lap.
Wow, a contortionist, someone who can lay their head in their own lap! No, it turned out 'she' referred to another person completely. :-(
AJ
Wow, a contortionist, someone who can lay their head in their own lap! No, it turned out 'she' referred to another person completely. :-(
Pronoun references are a pain in English. I'd say we need to decline them, but even I'm not THAT crazy. I spend quite a bit of time trying to ensure clarity in that regard (relative to other work on sentence construction).
The conversations That drive me nuts are when the writer doesn't make it clear just who is talking. Like when two or people are talking to each other in the same paragraph
That drives me crazy also. I have always separated conversations into different paragraphs, it is just how it should be done.
That annoys me almost as much as the stories that do not use paragraphs at all, and the structure makes it a single 3 page long paragraph.
I finally stopped even trying to read things like that. Just not worth my time.
You keep making the same post twice in multiple threads. I'm sure you are not doing it deliberately, but it seems to be a persistent issue. Some kind of technical problem on your end?
You keep making the same post twice in multiple threads. I'm sure you are not doing it deliberately, but it seems to be a persistent issue. Some kind of technical problem on your end?
Yes, I try to remove them whenever I see them, but sometimes I miss them. I have at this time a very mild form of Parkinson's, which can cause me to click twice sometimes. It is very annoying to me also, trust me there.
Some kind of technical problem on your end?
I have a mouse with a 'bouncy' button which sometimes gave a double click instead of a single, which I think caused the same problem for me. Also, I think double-clicking the [Post] button would do the same thing - an easy habit to fall into.
ETA: Just confirmed the double-click thing. Lazeez could fix it from his end at little cost by defining a double-click action for the button to do the same as the single-click action, so the double click gets caught rather than being interpreted as two single clicks - something like
object.ondblclick = function(){object.onclick()};
The conversations That drive me nuts are when the writer doesn't make it clear just who is talking. Like when two or people are talking to each other in the same paragraph.
A really good writer can let you know who is doing the talking by the tone of voice, choice of words, spacing, accent, etc. No need for names.
A really good writer can let you know who is doing the talking by the tone of voice, choice of words, spacing, accent, etc. No need for names.
With two people, yes. But when a conversation involves 3 or more people, that kinda is impossible. In my stories I often have conversations of 4 or more in a scene, so names are often required. But I try to hide them, and not place them in the dialog itself.
Mandy thought about it a moment and chewed her bottom lip, then said "Yes, I guess you are right. We do have to do it."
"Oh yes I agree," Holly said, nodding as she did so.
Doing that makes it more clear who is speaking when there are many people, as well as lets me add a bit more about their actions and mannerisms.
But when a conversation involves 3 or more people, that kinda is impossible. In my stories I often have conversations of 4 or more in a scene, so names are often required. But I try to hide them, and not place them in the dialog itself.
There are situations where you can pass the baton in the dialog, actually in the dialog, not burying narration in the middle of the dialog. for example, a more structured dialog like a corporate meting.
Cast: CEO(Bob), CFO(Fred), CIO(Tony), COO(Frank)
Bob started the meeting. "Blah blah....Fred, how do last quarter's financial numbers look?"
"Well, sales revenues were up by 10% over the prior quarter, but expenses went up 5%"
"Thank you. Tony, how is the network infrastructure upgrade going?)"
"Well, there were a few minor technical issues but we got them fixed and things are back on track though we are a couple of days behind schedule do to the problems."
do to the problems
back to proofreading: I recommend "due to the problems". (I have been doing some light proofreading for Mr. DS. He leaves the BM out of BDSM.) Actually his stories have a fair amount of all six categories, with D and S doing double duty. (Discipline and Domination, Submission and Sadism). His author's pen name seems well chosen, by me.
a corporate meting.
Presumably that's a portmanteau word combining meeting with mating, so once the business part is over they have a gay orgy where everyone gets screwed by management.
AJ
I assume it is a formatting error but sometimes I see a paragraph or even a sentence be broken up to look like multiple paragraphs. This is what I mean.
Tuesday I spent on my wheel. The feel of moulding the wet clay is by far the most satisfying part of being a potter. As well as being the most tactile job I can think of, the ability to produce something
of beauty and worth is very gratifying. Mid afternoon I put the glazed ware into the kiln and went into the house a very content man.
I assume it is a formatting error but sometimes I see a paragraph or even a sentence be broken up to look like multiple paragraphs. This is what I mean.
I've had this happen to me. I pops up when I convert to HTML for posting. Even looking at the HTML in my word processor doesn't show the issue, but then it hit when posting.
It wasn't an SOL issue though, when I checked the HTML file in my browser, the extra line/paragraph break was there.
I've started always checking the HTML file before posting.
I assume it is a formatting error but sometimes I see a paragraph or even a sentence be broken up to look like multiple paragraphs. This is what I mean.
That is just a formatting error. Since I have started editing my older stories (which I no longer have on disk so have to grab from in here), I often see that once I import it into my word processor. In fact, that and other editing changes (like the half-line return instead of a full space at the end of paragraphs) have made me just download the old work in a text format and copy it from there instead.
And indeed, many times in the middle of a paragraph (normally in the last sentence or two) I would see a mysterious soft line return that caused that same thing. I just shrug it off and figure it was something about the conversion process when they converted it for publishing in here.
Myself, I am "old school", and my writing style reflects that. Double space at the end of a sentence. 2 hard line returns at the end of a paragraph. Things I learned back when I used an actual typewriter that I still do to this day. And it seems like every single time I enter text into anything on the internet it simply strips them away.
I simply shrug it off now, even though I always modify my own word processor software to ignore my hard line returns and to not force in the now softer half-line (or even worse throw in a double line space). And to leave my double space end of line, I did intend that and it is not a mistake.
Double space at the end of a sentence.
Makes no difference once converted to html. You could put in a hundred spaces but html will only display one.
