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Forum: Story Discussion and Feedback

Tags, as in number of

greensocks 🚫

I noticed the last few days i was skipping over any story that had multiple lines of tags. It didn't even matter what the tags were. Not sure if i always did this but just noticed it in my browsing recently.

Does anyone else do this or have you even notice you do it.
just wondering how everyone feels about stories that seem to have every tag selected.

Replies:   graybyrd  Switch Blayde  Keet
graybyrd 🚫

@greensocks

Does anyone else do this or have you even notice you do it.

Yes. Anytime the tag counts/lines exceed the story blurb word/line count, it's an automatic reject.

Switch Blayde 🚫

@greensocks

i was skipping over any story that had multiple lines of tags.

I use tags in the Category Search but never look at them otherwise.

Keet 🚫

@greensocks

I don't count the number of tags but the greater the number the less likely I am to read it because it usually means it's a Much Sex or Stroke story and I prefer the No/Minimal/Some Sex stories. However, for me the decision to start reading a story depends on the combination of description, tags, and to a lesser extend the score. There are a few tags that will make me skip a story.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@Keet

the decision to start reading a story depends on the combination of description, tags, and to a lesser extend the score

The first thing I look at is the title.

Replies:   Keet
Keet 🚫

@Switch Blayde

The first thing I look at is the title.

Yep, I see that as part of a description.

Dominions Son 🚫

For me, A high tag count in and of itself is not an outright disqualifier. I tend to prefer longer stories and in my opinion, a longer story can reasonably support more tags without the story necessarily becoming incoherent.

Things that are red flags for me:

More than 2 or 3 age/gender combo tags

More than 2 story type tags, or if it includes 2 story type tags that I consider incompatible.

Entire tag groups being included.

AmigaClone 🚫

@Dominions Son

More than 2 or 3 age/gender combo tags

I would not automatically disqualify a story for having more than 2 or 3 age/gender combos, especially in stories that take part over several years.

As an example, a story can start with three teenagers (1 male - age 16 and 2 females - ages 15 and 17). If the three are in a sexual relationship as teens, for 8 years then their relationship could cover 7 age/gender combinations.

mt/ft, ft/ft, mt/Fa, Fa/ft, Ma/Fa, Ma/ft, Multi

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@AmigaClone

I would not automatically disqualify a story for having more than 2 or 3 age/gender combos, especially in stories that take part over several years.

I didn't say it would be an automatic disqualification.

As an example, a story can start with three teenagers (1 male - age 16 and 2 females - ages 15 and 17). If the three are in a sexual relationship as teens, for 8 years then their relationship could cover 7 age/gender combinations.

In my opinion, such a story covering such a long time span is very likely to be incoherent if it's anything under 1,000,000 words.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@Dominions Son

In my opinion, such a story covering such a long time span is very likely to be incoherent if it's anything under 1,000,000 words.

I don't understand that. A story doesn't have to be about every day in someone's life.

Let's say it began when the three were in high school and then it jumps to after they graduate from college. What happened between those two timeframes might not be important to the story.

It's one of those cases where telling is better than showing. You basically tell a summary of that time period and move on to the new time.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

A story doesn't have to be about every day in someone's life.

And I didn't get anywhere near suggesting in should.

The postulated story covers 8 years. That's almost 3000 days, and to cover every day over that span would not take 1,000,000 words, it would be more like 100,000,000 words. Just 1000 words per day would put you at 3,000,000 words. You aren't fitting sex into that unless it's nothing but sex.

Let's say it began when the three were in high school and then it jumps to after they graduate from college. What happened between those two timeframes might not be important to the story.

The postulated story covers 8 years, so we aren't talking Just graduating from college with bachelor's degrees, we'd be talking post graduate degrees, PHDs or MDs.

Sorry, count me skeptical that you could come up with a coherent plot that would require detailed enough events in high school to justify high school sex scenes, then jump ahead to post college with basically nothing happening in the middle.

Michael Loucks 🚫

@Dominions Son

The postulated story covers 8 years. That's almost 3000 days, and to cover every day over that span would not take 1,000,000 words, it would be more like 100,000,000 words. Just 1000 words per day would put you at 3,000,000 words. You aren't fitting sex into that unless it's nothing but sex.

10,000,000 words covers, coherently, about 23 years, broken up for easier reading into 21 'books' even though it's really just one book. Probably 15,000,000 and 30 'books' when completed.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@Michael Loucks

10,000,000 words covers, coherently, about 23 years

No on a day in the life basis where the story covers everything that happens every day over the defined time period, which was what I was responding to being accused of suggesting.

AmigaClone 🚫

@Dominions Son

The amount of time I used was somewhat arbitrary - but somewhat based on what I was remembering of
Dance of a Lifetime covers 9 years+ epilogue in roughly 450,000 words.

Each day is not detailed minute by minute, in fact there are several small gaps of several weeks scattered in the story where nothing significantly different happens.

I know there are some authors here that could spend 300+ words describing what they had for breakfast, even if they have that breakfast every day. That is not the case in that story.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@AmigaClone

Each day is not detailed minute by minute, in fact there are several small gaps of several weeks scattered in the story where nothing significantly different happens.

And you would need a two or three order of magnitude increase in length to do that.

Sorry, I remain skeptical that you can have a coherent plot in a story that spans that much in so few words EVEN with months between covered scenes. If the time span from one scene/chapter to the next gets too large, it attenuates any plot connection between them.

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Dominions Son

Sorry, count me skeptical that you could come up with a coherent plot that would require detailed enough events in high school to justify high school sex scenes, then jump ahead to post college with basically nothing happening in the middle.

I was simply saying that a story that spanned 8 years does not have to be a million words.

In my example, let's say the characters had relationships in high school but then went their separate ways to different colleges in different states (or countries). What happened in college was not important to the plot because the plot was about their relationships. Now college is over and they all reconnect. That's where the story continues.

Dominions Son 🚫
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

I was simply saying that a story that spanned 8 years does not have to be a million words.

Sure it can be done shorter at a strong risk of the plot becoming disjointed and incoherent.

As to your example, it sounds more like you have two separate and barely connected plots, one covering high schools and the other covering post college.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@Dominions Son

As to your example, it sounds more like you have two separate and barely connected plots, one covering high schools and the other covering post college.

Not to plot a story, but let's say the high school part was a coming of age. The kids learning about sex and relationships. They pledge their undying love for each other. Then they go away to college. When they return, they are different people. Do they still love each other? Do the couples change? What's the conflict with the relationships?

The two halves aren't disjointed. What happens in high school is the foundation for what happens when they reunite.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@Switch Blayde

What happens in high school is the foundation for what happens when they reunite.

True, but it does not automatically follow that the two form a solidly contiguous whole with no disjoint between them.

Uther_Pendragon 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I was simply saying that a story that spanned 8 years does not have to be a million words.

My Life Sentence covers a lifetime, over 50 years, certainly, in under 200 words. OTOH, Heart Ball Is a couple of months in 130,000 + words. Depends on now you write it.

Uther_Pendragon 🚫

@Dominions Son

As an author, I notice that a great many tags can be appropriate to even a simple story.

I'm currently running a story marked MF 1st.
I could easily have added college and "white couple." I usually don't use HS, college, and work tags.
Most of my stories don't emphasize the race, even when it has different races.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫
Updated:

@Uther_Pendragon

I notice that a great many tags can be appropriate to even a simple story.

I don't use raw number of tags as an outright disqualifier.

I tend to have issues with short stories with lots of tags, longer stories support more tags well.

Rather I look for combinations that may be problematic.

I've found that I haven't liked the majority of stories I've tried to read with more than a few age/gender combo tags. There have been exceptions though. The exceptions tend to be exceptionally long stories.

Mixing consensual and non-consensual tags are another. It can work, at least in longer stories, but tends to be problematic in shorter stories.

Multiple story type tags is also something I see as a possible issue, While some combinations work well, others like science fiction types combined with paranormal types are an issue. Such cross overs can be done successfully, but in my experience as a reader, they fail more often than they work.

None of these things are outright disqualifiers, but they will make me look more closely at the description and other factors (such as length) and spend more time thinking about do I want to read this story.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@Dominions Son

Mixing consensual and non-consensual tags are another.

To be honest, the only time I would use the "consensual" tag is if the "non-consent" one is there and there's also consensual sex.

For me, consensual is the given so you don't need the tag. But if the story has the "non-consent" tag and the story also has consensual sex, I wouldn't want to mislead the reader to think all the sex is non-consensual.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

For me, consensual is the given so you don't need the tag. But if the story has the "non-consent" tag and the story also has consensual sex, I wouldn't want to mislead the reader to think all the sex is non-consensual.

I can see that, but for me as a reader, most of the stories I've read, particularly the shorter ones, that mix consensual sex and non-consensual sex, outside of a CNC* situation don't really do it in a way that works well in my opinion.

Stories mixing purely consensual sex and separate scenes of purely non-consensual sex, in my opinion, are done far more often than they are done well.

*Consensual-non-consensual: situations where there really is consent even if it outwardly looks like rape or some other non-consensual situation.

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Dominions Son

don't really do it in a way that works well in my opinion.

Not to make up a plot, but what if the story is about a loving couple (consensual) and then the wife gets raped (non-consent) and that event puts a strain on their relationship. And maybe it's all about the guy, through love and maybe sex, bringing her out of her depression, fear, etc.

Maybe the real problem is that most stories don't really have a plot. Not the way I define plot.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

Not to make up a plot,

Why not?

but what if the story is about a loving couple (consensual) and then the wife gets raped (non-consent) and that event puts a strain on their relationship. And maybe it's all about the guy, through love and maybe sex, bringing her out of her depression, fear, etc.

That is an idea that could work well.

It could also be badly screwed up.

It would take a very delicate balance.

First "and maybe sex, bringing her out of her depression, fear" is out. This is not something I can buy as "therapy" for a seriously traumatized rape victim.

If she simply wasn't that traumatized, you don't really have a plot here.

If she seems that badly traumatized to start with and comes out of it too quickly, as a reader, that would leave me wondering if she was really raped, or if she was into rough sex, didn't share that with hubby, went looking for it elsewhere and cried rape after because she got caught.

If it's too hard for him to bring her out of her depression, fear, etc..., either the story drones on and gets very long, or she never recovers and you are left with a tragic ending.

A story that starts with a tragic event and is about overcoming the tragedy is something I can get behind, but I hate stories with tragic endings.

That's my problem with these kinds of tag mismatches, there are a few ways it can work well, and a thousand ways for it to fall apart. But even where you start with a decent plot idea for the combo,and the blurb sounds good, whether it actually works or not is in the final implementation.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫
Updated:

@Dominions Son

there are a few ways it can work well, and a thousand ways for it to fall apart.

LOL
That's why we all haven't written a best seller.

richardshagrin 🚫

@Dominions Son

CNC

"CNC
Also found in: Dictionary, Medical, Financial, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.
Category filter:
Acronym Definition
CNC College of New Caledonia (Canada)
CNC Command and Conquer
CNC Computer Numerically Controlled
CNC Computer Numerical Control (manufacturing)
CNC Centre National du Cinéma et de l'Image Animée (French cinematography center)
CNC Conseil National de la Communication (French: National Council for Communication)
CNC Conseil National de la Consommation (French: National Consumer Council; est. 1983)
CNC Charlotte, North Carolina
CNC Control Numérico Computarizado (Spanish: Computerized Numerical Control)
CNC Conseil National de la Chirurgie (French: National Board of Surgery)
CNC Confédération Nationale de la Construction (French: National Confederation of Construction; Belgium)
CNC Confédération Nationale des Cadres (French: National Confederation of Executives; Belgium)
CNC Cámara Nacional de Comercio (Spanish: National Chamber of Commerce; Bolivia and Chile)
CNC Comisión Nacional de Comunicaciones (Argentina communications regulatory body)
CNC Concentrator
CNC Conseil National de la Comptabilité (France)
CNC Chippewa Nature Center (Midland Township, MI)
CNC Confederación Nacional Campesina (Spanish: National Peasant Confederation, Mexico)
CNC Campus Networking Committee
CNC Computerized Numerical Control
CNC Click and Create
CNC Call if Non Carry
CNC Commander in Chief
CNC Capital News Centre (Canada)
CNC Covenant Not to Compete
CNC Coffee and Chat (various organizations)
CNC Camden National Corporation (Maine)
CNC Cercle Nautique Calédonien (French: Caledonian Nautical Circle; New Caledonia)
CNC China Network Communications
CNC Community Newspaper Company (various locations)
CNC Comité National de la Conchyliculture (French: National Shellfish Committee)
CNC Clinical Nurse Consultant
CNC Civil Nuclear Constabulary (UK)
CNC Commission on Nurse Certification (American Association of Colleges of Nursing)
CNC Certified Nutritional Consultant
CNC Computer Network Consultants (various locations)
CNC Chinese National Committee (various organizations)
CNC Configurable Network Computing
CNC Computerized Numerically Controlled
CNC Conserved Non-Coding (genetics)
CNC Catholic Newman Center (various locations)
CNC Centre for Nature Conservation (Germany)
CNC Carson-Newman College (Tennessee)
CNC Club Nautique Castelbriantais (French water sports club)
CNC Cranial Neural Crest
CNC Carney Complex
CNC Club Nautique de Chartrettes (French water sports club)
CNC Copy Number Change
CNC China Netcom Corporation
CNC Cadet Nurse Corps (American World War II program)
CNC Cayuga Nature Center (Ithaca, NY)
CNC Comprehensive Neuroscience Center (various locations)
CNC Condensation Nuclei Counter
CNC City Neighborhood Council (Seattle, WA)
CNC Crime and Narcotics Center (DCI)
CNC Clinical Nurse Coordinator
CNC Capitol News Connection (Washington, DC)
CNC Compagnie Nouvelle des Conteneurs (French transport company)
CNC Chimpan News Channel (Japan)
CNC Controlled Not Classified (biopharmaceutical industry)
CNC Consensual Non-Consent
CNC Commission Nationale de la Communication (French)
CNC Canmore Nordic Centre (Alberta, Canada)
CNC Congreso Nacional de Canarias (National Congress of the Canary Islands; separatist group)
CNC Complex Number Calculator
CNC Committee of National Coordinators (GUAM economic cooperative group)
CNC Communications Network Control
CNC Complemented Natural Code (coding theory)
CNC Centre de Neuroscience Cognitives (French: Cognitive Neuroscience Center)
CNC Currently Not Collectable
CNC Central Nacional Campesina (Spanish: National Farmer Center)
CNC Computer Numeric Code
CNC College Not Combat (San Francisco, CA)
CNC Collaborative Networked Communication
CNC Central Navigation Computer
CNC Community Nutrition Center (Bangladesh)
CNC Chin National Council (Burma)
CNC Counter-Narcotics Center (CIA)
CNC Clearnet Communications, Inc. (Canada)
CNC Cambodian Network Council
CNC Constitutionalists' Networking Center
CNC Change Notice Code
CNC Council for Nursing Centers
CNC Communication and Network Consulting AG (Munich)
CNC Chicken Noodle Coalition
CNC Common Names Committee (Western Forest Insect Work Conference)
CNC Carrots and Cheese (web comic)
CNC Comité National Canadien de la Classification TNM ( French: Canadian National Classification Committee)
CNC Centralized Network Configuration
CNC Customer Network Controller
CNC Concerned Citizen Party
CNC Closed, Non-Collectable
CNC Coalition Netops Center
CNC Central Numerical Control
CNC Carolina Nanocenter (University of South Carolina)
CNC Critical National Capability
Copyright 1988-2018 AcronymFinder.com, All rights reserved."

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@richardshagrin

Perhaps someone should set up an adult literature acronym finder for such items as 69, BTB, RAAC, CNC, either on SOL or the internet as a whole.

No, I'm not volunteering: I'm having enough trouble trying to kick start 'Gay!'.

AJ

Replies:   Keet
Keet 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Perhaps someone should set up an adult literature acronym finder for such items as 69, BTB, RAAC, CNC, either on SOL or the internet as a whole.

I doubt that there are enough of such acronyms to make it worthwhile.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@Keet

I doubt that there are enough of such acronyms to make it worthwhile.

Cue several hundred suggestions from @richardshagrin?

AJ

Replies:   Keet
Keet 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Cue several hundred suggestions from @richardshagrin?

you stated

...adult literature acronym finder...

which disqualifies the list richardshagrin posted. That list is already available on the web. If you can persuade readers/authors to compile a list of 50+ adult/erotic/SOL acronyms I will try to persuade REP and TeNderLoin to add a page to the ReaderInfo site with the list ;)

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@Keet

which disqualifies the list richardshagrin posted.

That wasn't what I meant - I'm sure Richard can find/remember plenty of erotic acronyms. As a starter, there's MILF and all its derivatives. Considering I'd never heard of RAAC and CNC,I'm sure 50+ is doable. The BDSM (another one!) field should provide easy pickings for the knowledgeable.

AJ

Replies:   richardshagrin  Keet
richardshagrin 🚫

@awnlee jawking

BDSM (another one

Actually it contains three acronyms. Bondage and Discipline, Domination and Submission and Sadism and Masochism. Spelling Masochism is a challenge, at least for me. I checked my initial attempts several times on line. Here is some of what I found.

"Masochism, psychosexual disorder in which erotic release is achieved through having pain inflicted on oneself. The term derives from the name of Chevalier Leopold von Sacher-Masoch, an Austrian who wrote extensively about the satisfaction he gained by being beaten and subjugated."

Replies:   joyR  Keet
joyR 🚫

@richardshagrin

Masochism, psychosexual disorder

Funny how an act is a disorder to those who can't imagine enjoying it and a kink to those who do.

Sexual terms are usually defined by those who consider almost any sexual act perverted.

Keet 🚫

@richardshagrin

Actually it contains three acronyms.

BDSM

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@Keet

I only scanned the article but I spotted two more: CBT and EPE. ;)

AJ

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Thanks to a newspaper article, two more from mumsnet:

DTD - do the dirty
SWI - shagging with intent, ie trying to get pregnant.

AJ

Replies:   Keet
Keet 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Thanks to a newspaper article, two more from mumsnet:

DTD - do the dirty
SWI - shagging with intent, ie trying to get pregnant.

Adding these two I'm up to 32 acronyms related to erotica, erotic literature, or sex in general. It seems that my estimate that 50+ is not likely to be reached soon still stands.
Even if I add generic acronyms like TL;DR, IANAL, etc that are commonly used in this forum I don't get to 50.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@Keet

Even if I add generic acronyms like TL;DR, IANAL, etc that are commonly used in this forum I don't get to 50.

Are they erotic in nature?

Do you have DP (Double penetration) and GILF (Granny etc) in your list?

AJ

Replies:   joyR  Keet
joyR 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I think a 50+ list might appear tomorrow

:)

Keet 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Do you have DP (Double penetration) and GILF (Granny etc) in your list?

Yep, both.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫
Updated:

@Keet

I'm sure some more could be harvested from this site but most of them are probably too obscure to be relevant to SOL. I think 50+ should be doable but they shouldn't be added to a list just for the sake of numbers.

AJ

Replies:   Keet
Keet 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I'm sure some more could be harvested from this site but most of them are probably too obscure to be relevant to SOL. I think 50+ should be doable but they shouldn't be added to a list just for the sake of numbers.

Relevant to SOL, that's the main point. A strict rule could be that a term or acronym must be used in either a story or on the forum. I could easily create a list with over a hundred items but the list becomes too bothersome if a lot of those items are irrelevant.
I think I will just post a list in a new forum topic and others can add to it or I can edit the forum post to add. I have to be careful that this sort of thing doesn't 'grow'.

To explain: I have written my own custom library which started a few years ago as a simple html page with a story index and the stories I downloaded and converted from SOL. At some point I started to fix small typos and added an explanation of certain terms between brackets in the story text (I'm not native English so I need some of them). Then came the images and tooltips when I ran into a specific term or object. If a specific classic car is mentioned in a story I add a picture. Well it grew beyond that. I now have dozens of appendici with all kinds of data about firearms, naval/nautical terms, sail and rigging names, stone age objects, bed sizes, astronomy, cars, etc. And it still grows. I also added a calculator to convert between all kinds of different measurements. And, damn, now I had to add an appendix with terms and acronyms which is updated like all other appendici when needed :D

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@Keet

appendici

Appendix - Appendices, although Appendixes is becoming common.

Other words ending in 'x' with 'ices' as the plural here.

AJ

Replies:   Keet
Keet 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Appendix - Appendices, although Appendixes is becoming common.

Other words ending in 'x' with 'ices' as the plural here.

I looked it up before I used the term but I mistakingly found the plural for the anatomy form of an appendix. Appendices it is.

Keet 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I'm sure Richard can find/remember plenty of erotic acronyms.

Sounds like a challenge ;) Let's see if Richard takes it.

Jason Samson 🚫
Updated:

I've recently been trawling "random", and have found that the very first thing I scan is.... drum roll please... score. Anything below a high 6 I pass over.

Anything high 6 or better, I look at the tags. The impression of too many tags, especially if they focus on things I think of as "objectifying" the relationships, I skip.

Only at that point do I look at the title, description, and if I recognize the author.

If it has any reviews then I glance at them. But reviews fall into binary categories - if the reviewer talks about scores rather than plot then I disregard the review. It's amazing how many reviews are just talking about "would score 8 except for there

are some spelling mistakes per chapter" crap.

Anyway, at that point, If the story is promising, then I download the ePub and start reading. My history tab cuts off after a year but I've read over 600 in that last year.

If the story isn't my style then I abandon it and don't score it.

A further handful of longer stories get just "too much" and I take a pause from them meaning to carry on another time.

And the remainder 60% or so are stories I've liked enough to finish and I score quite highly.

Yeah I know what this means for the score maths.

REP 🚫

I primarily use the story description and the type and number of codes. The Sex Content and Author fields are of secondary consideration. I don't use score as a determinate.

samsonjas 🚫

I don't get what it is with authors and counting, or lack of it! ;)

Recently in the forums we've had lack of counting sides of a die, lack of counting scores for collaborative filtering and lack of counting poll results. What is it with authors and math? ;)

And now here we are not able to count how short a story can be to cover a bunch of age tags... on a site with tags for time travel and flash backs!?

Radagast 🚫

The secret is they are all Alts of a certain felt vampire and he is arguing with himself. Ah ah ah!

joyR 🚫

It is interesting that word counts in the millions are suggested necessary to tell the story of two characters over a period of time.

Stories have been written that cover multiple families over a period of time and still have a word count of less than 600,000.

As an example, Tolstoy managed "War and Peace" in 587,287 words. Granted one might consider themselves a better writer than Tolstoy, but in that case shouldn't a better writer be able to tell a better story with fewer words.?

I suppose there are writers and there are wordsmiths. Some praise quantity, others quality.

$ 0.02

Dominions Son 🚫
Updated:

@joyR

It is interesting that word counts in the millions are suggested necessary to tell the story of two characters over a period of time.

Meaningless objection without defining the period of time.

As an example, Tolstoy managed "War and Peace" in 587,287 words. Granted one might consider themselves a better writer than Tolstoy

Or one could just not think Tolstoy was that great of a writer. Haven't read war and peace myself, but from what I've read, a lot of people consider it a difficult read and not just because of the length.

Oh, and War and Peace was originally written/published as 4 separate books.

shouldn't a better writer be able to tell a better story with fewer words.?

No, not necessarily. It depends on the story.

Trying to tell a story in the fewest possible words purely for the sake of telling the story in the fewest possible words does not make one a "better" writer.

Some praise quantity, others quality.

And some think quality and quantity are interdependent and that less in terms of quantity does not always make for better quality.

Replies:   joyR
joyR 🚫

@Dominions Son

Meaningless objection without defining the period of time.

What objection?

Haven't read war and peace myself

But you won't let that stop you.

No, not necessarily. It depends on the story.

Actually it depends on the writer. Some 'pad' others don't indulge in needless verbosity.

And some think quality and quantity are interdependent and that less in terms of quantity does not always make for better quality.

Quality does not require or infer brevity. Quantity however infers nothing but quantity.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@joyR

Some 'pad' others don't indulge in needless verbosity.

And some deliberately pursue brevity to excess.

Quality does not require or infer brevity. Quantity however infers nothing but quantity.

I think it's more complicated than that. Excessive verbosity and excessive brevity both negatively impact quality.

And the story itself does matter, the more content (in an abstract sense, think about tags) the more quantity of words is needed to cover all that content adequately in a quality manner.

The thresholds for excessive brevity and excessive verbosity will be very different between a story with few characters and a simple plot covering just a few days of time and a story with many characters and a complex plot covering many years of time.

Replies:   joyR
joyR 🚫

@Dominions Son

The thresholds for excessive brevity and excessive verbosity will be very different between a story with few characters and a simple plot covering just a few days of time and a story with many characters and a complex plot covering many years of time.

I don't think that is necessarily the case. It depends upon the author and how much detail is used to paint the picture in the mind of the reader. Without being verbose stories can be detailed enough that at every repeated reading a new discovery is made. A simple plot covering a few days could be longer than one with many characters and a complex plot.

What might be closer to the truth is a short story, say 2k words with many codes isn't likely to be worth reading.

As for codes, I was going to use a story that had flagellation, necrophilia and bestiality as codes, but that would just be flogging a dead horse.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@joyR

Patricia Cornwell's Kay Scarpetta novels and Laurell K Hamilton's Anita Blake novels are typically set over very short time periods such as a couple of days.

AJ

Replies:   Lumpy
Lumpy 🚫

@awnlee jawking

This is typical of the thriller and mystery (including supernatural mystery/thriller) genre. To keep up intensity, stories in this genre keep the time compressed. Fantasy and Sci-Fi, which focus on sweeping stories and breath, tend to happen over longer periods of time (exceptions exist in both, of course)

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@Lumpy

Fantasy and Sci-Fi, which focus on sweeping stories and breath, tend to happen over longer periods of time

This is true, but even in those genres, stories that take place over many years in a single book is very rare.

The Lord of the Rings series (excluding The Hobbit) at 481,103 words covers only 2 1/2 years from Gandalf's first arrival in the Shire to Bilbo, Frodo and the three guardians leaving middle earth in the epilogue, which is itself nearly a year past the end of the main story.

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/7304/what-is-the-timeline-for-the-lord-of-the-rings-trilogy

Dominions Son 🚫

@joyR

Without being verbose stories can be detailed enough that at every repeated reading a new discovery is made.

I don't dispute this, but I've seen stories from authors where as a reader, it seemed the author valued brevity to the point that the story was the worse for it.

A simple plot covering a few days could be longer than one with many characters and a complex plot.

Sure, if the many characters and complex plot was covering a similar time frame. Not if it's supposed to be years in length.

richardshagrin 🚫

@joyR

I suppose there are writers and there are wordsmiths. Some praise quantity, others quality.

$ 0.02

The ones paid by the word, especially only two cents a word, prefer quantity.

Replies:   joyR
joyR 🚫

@richardshagrin

The ones paid by the word, especially only two cents a word, prefer quantity.

No idea what the going rate is per word, I don't get paid that way.

:)

richardshagrin 🚫

It is difficult to read "War and Peace". Keeping track of all the characters is difficult because the names, translated from Russian, have lots of syllables with hard to remember combinations of letters. I think the plot is complex, as well, although I quit reading fairly quickly. It isn't a story I am prepared to review. Fortunately it isn't on SOL or any of its associated sites.

joyR 🚫

For those interested;

The entire Harry Potter series – 1,084,170 words

The entire Lord of the Rings series (including The Hobbit) – 576,459 words

The entire A Song of Ice and Fire series (so far) – 1,770,000 words

Source

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd 🚫
Updated:

@joyR

You forget to add Philip Pullman's "Golden Compass" series; who'd a thunk: "Armored Bears." The movie sucked sewage, but the books need a summer season to read.

Replies:   ystokes
ystokes 🚫
Updated:

@graybyrd

regarding the "Golden Compass"

The books were great even though the Catholic Church protested claiming the evil religion was to close to their's.

The reason the movie sucked was the Catholic Church told the producers they would protest and boycott unless they took out any mention of religion.

Replies:   graybyrd  REP
graybyrd 🚫

@ystokes

The books were great even though the Catholic Church protested claiming the evil religion was to close to their's.

Thereby proving the point, eh?

REP 🚫
Updated:

@ystokes

The reason the movie sucked was the Catholic Church told the producers they would protest and boycott unless they took out any mention of religion.

I have to disagree with your rationale.

The movie was good or sucked based on its plot, acting, and content. The fact that the Catholic Church opposed the content had nothing to do with the quality of the movie. However, the church did influence peoples opinion of the movie.

You may also want to consider that according to your remark, the Catholic Church labeled the movie's religion as evil and at the same time said it was too close to the Catholic religion. What does that say about the Catholic religion?

ystokes 🚫

I rarely read stories under 100k as I like to become invested in the story.

As for the whole length of time covered vs number of words.
Daniel Q Steele The Currency of Time 4 chapters 279 kb. covers 10+ years with 2, 4, 5 year jumps between chapters.

Dual Writer Vacation? 72 chapters 1946 kb. Each chapter covers one day in his life.

Both good stories and easy the follow.

ystokes 🚫

There are some tags that don't really need to be used but there are some that if in the story they should show the tag.

Case in point you are reading a good 69 love scene and the next thing is they are crapping in each others mouths. That would kill even a Viagra hard-on.

ystokes 🚫

I always laugh at the different meanings of the word "fanny" by UK and US writers when in reality they are not very far apart. About 6 inches.

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