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just an observation

doaftheloaf

I like this site, but it just seems to me most of the stories lately seem to view the sex as more important than the story. I suppose there is a place for that, but I wish there were more stories where the story being told has priority and the sex is just something that happens within the story. Just my opinion.

Replies:   Keet  Switch Blayde  joyR
Ernest Bywater

there are a few authors with that focus, but a vocal minority has been pushing the concept of stories on the site had to have sex, so many new authors include the sex. This is s story site that allows sex stories.

Real life is intruding on a lot of authors right now, but we do keep working on stories when we can, just at a slower rate. I've 30 part written stories I'm working on as I feel up to it despite the real life pressures.

Replies:   robberhands  Lapi
robberhands

@Ernest Bywater

This is s story site that allows sex stories.

Does this allowance also include a literary pardon?

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@robberhands

Does this allowance also include a literary pardon?


That will depend on how you define it!

When SoL started story sites were either sex only sites or no-sex only sites, and this was the first site to allow both on the same site. The splash page emphasized it being a story site. However, after over a decade the splash page changed to push the sex stories more. I suspect it was to get more people to visit the site.

But since that change to the splash page a certain element of readers and authors have been pushing the concept of stories requiring sex scenes to be here, and that is not the case. Yet many new authors think it is.

When you view the FAQs and other site instructions you see very little in the way of limitations for stories, especially when you compare them with other sites.

Replies:   doaftheloaf  Not_a_ID
Keet

@doaftheloaf

but I wish there were more stories where the story being told has priority and the sex is just something that happens within the story.

Exactly what I prefer in a story! Story first, sex only if it adds to the story.

Replies:   karactr
karactr

@Keet

Exactly!! If the sex doesn't add to the story, it is just fluff. Or fap-worthy possibly.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@karactr

Mea culpa! My recent offering was definitely not the sort of story the site wants too many of if it's going to appeal to a broad audience. Despite its shortness, it was too slow to be fap-worthy so I guess that makes it fluff :(

AJ

Switch Blayde

@doaftheloaf

Try searching on the "slow" story code.

Darian Wolfe

I actually don't enjoy writing sex scenes. I may or may not include it in a given story. My goal in most of my work is to express emotional and relational dynamics through sex. I admit to feeling a little pressure to having some sex but if the story doesn't need it its not happening.

docholladay

As a reader, what I have liked most about SOL is the fact there is something for everyone's taste in reading materials. I will admit there are stories I don't even look at, but that is due to my own bias.

doaftheloaf

@Ernest Bywater

The reason I come here is because the other story sites are even more that way. I have nothing against a story with sex in it; it just shouldn't be the focus, in my opinion. I guess such stories do have their place, but you take a look at the majority of new stories and updates and they're just there for something to beat your meat to. Like it's just the author's fantasy and there's not really a story or any character development. It's these stories that are taking over at the expense of the entries by truly skilled writers.

There are some of those here. Less than there used to be, and that's part of the problem, but RL can be a bitch sometimes, and I understand that, and also that people die. It's a fact of life; it ends.

Any chance you or anyone here knows of some skilled new writers they enjoy, who value the story more than the sex within?

Replies:   Keet  Ernest Bywater
Keet

@doaftheloaf

I guess such stories do have their place, but you take a look at the majority of new stories and updates and they're just there for something to beat your meat to. Like it's just the author's fantasy and there's not really a story or any character development.

If you don't want sex in a story you can go to Finestories. A fact is that sex is part of life and logically will be part of many stories, or should be. It often adds an important part to a story that is avoided in good main line stories because of public opinion.
The real problem arises when the majority of stories focuses solely on sex. You can't avoid them without missing out on the many very good stories with only that part of sex in it that supports the story. You can't split SOL in 2 sites, one with "Much/Stroke" and one with "Some/Minimal" because the lines are too gray between them. If often encounter stories where the amount of sex is listed too high just to avoid complaints about not having it listed that way. Everyone has their own opinion about what is "Some" and what is "Much". Initially I missed out on many good stories because they were listed as "Much Sex" and I only went for stories below that. Nowadays I have "fine tuned my nose" for good stories by also looking at high scoring "Much Sex" stories that often turn out to be not that "Much Sex" at all. Also keep in mind that many stories often start with much sex and in later chapters that amount decreases significantly, in some cases to almost nothing. My guess is that a start with more sex attracts a bigger audience and most of that audience is retained when the amount of sex decreases. I think that is the case for a lot of the high scoring "Much Sex" stories. My advise: fine tune your nose :D

Replies:   REP
joyR

@doaftheloaf

To put your complaint into perspective...

You are complaining about the stories posted by authors who receive no compensation, to a site that allows for free access to read (most) of those stories...

Whilst I agree that there are stories posted that would be better placed low down in a septic tank, nobody is forcing you to read them, nor does their presence preclude authors from posting the types of story you prefer.

Either way, complaining about a freebie is lower on the scale than the stories you dislike.

Just my opinion.

Ernest Bywater

@doaftheloaf

I know there are some authors here who write good stories, but the sex scenes are usually very formula like, so when I read those stories I skip the sex scenes and move to the next part of the story beyond the sex - I rarely miss anything by doing so.

In Finding Home I used sex scenes early to demonstrate a part of the MC's character and how it changes, then I drop them from the story and focus on the rest of the plot. There's a few other stories by many authors that are like that. However, a search on no sex or minimal sex stories will list a lot of good stories - but also some crappy ones as well.

Replies:   joyR  Switch Blayde
joyR

@Ernest Bywater

when I read those stories I skip the sex scenes and move to the next part of the story beyond the sex


Excellent point. It can be expanded and applied to very well written stories that contain sexual scenes that are not to the readers taste. Same applies to certain stories which are very well written but include sections that contain political or religious stuff that the reader has no interest in. Just skip forward.

Oh, and to be fair, if the story is correctly coded, then don't let the parts you skip reflect upon the score you award.

REP
Updated:

@Keet


many stories often start with much sex and in later chapters that amount decreases significantly


Unfortunately, the reverse is also true. I've lost track of the number of stories that started out focused on the plot and then ended up as a non-stop romp in bed without further advancement of the plot. At least I didn't wait around to wade through all the sex scenes to find more plot.

ETA: I should have said that after a chapter or two of sex with essentially no plot, I bailed.

Replies:   Keet
Keet

@REP

I should have said that after a chapter or two of sex with essentially no plot, I bailed.

Exactly how I bailed on several stories too. Like JoyR mentioned, I often skip the sex parts. If it's all sex I skip it all ;)

Switch Blayde

@Ernest Bywater

I skip the sex scenes and move to the next part of the story beyond the sex - I rarely miss anything by doing so.


If you can skip a scene and not miss something, the scene isn't necessary. But are you sure you're not missing something? But what does "miss something" really mean?

Maybe you miss a character trait. Or a reason a character behaves a certain way. Or something in a relationship. Or a skill. Or even something to get the reader smoothly from Point-A to Point-B.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Switch Blayde

But are you sure you're not missing something? But what does "miss something" really mean?


With the stories by the authors I do this with I know I'm not missing anything because the scenes I'm skipping are almost all cookie cutter scenes with mostly the same wording. When I skip such scenes and go to the enxt part of the plot development it flows along - it's almost like the author stuck the scenes in where he did because they're expected. In some stories by one author he didn't have the sex scenes and those stories were much better and easier to read, but a small minority bitched about no sex so he started adding them again.

BTW I have no intention of naming any authors so don't bother asking.

Replies:   REP
Not_a_ID

@Ernest Bywater

But since that change to the splash page a certain element of readers and authors have been pushing the concept of stories requiring sex scenes to be here, and that is not the case. Yet many new authors think it is.


The existence of FineStories probably helps add to the confusion on that matter. :)

Ernest Bywater

@Not_a_ID


The existence of FineStories probably helps add to the confusion on that matter. :)


It does and it doesn't. It's main audience is those who want to be able to access stories without having to worry about people looking over their shoulder and have ones they can tell their kids to read.

I've two stories where they each have one extremely short and very bland sex scene which isn't much more than saying they kissed, but they're seen as not suitable for Fine Stories, so they have to be on SoL.

Where I can I posted stories on both SoL and Fine Stories as they have two different audiences, and the same goes for SciFi Stories. Thus I have some stories on all three sites.

docholladay

@Not_a_ID

The existence of FineStories probably helps add to the confusion on that matter.


I don't know about that. I have gotten into the habit of recommending both sites. I make a point of mentioning that while SOL is adult oriented, Finestories is suitable to all ages.

joyR

Obviously there are no limitations on how much sex, if any, a story posted to SOL contains. But a quick look at the story categories will show that very very few pertain to content other than sex. So it is hardly surprising that people believe that SOL is predominantly a sex story site.

Especially as a quick search of 'no sex' versus 'some, much, stroke' shows that the percentage of non sex stories is less than 10% of the current almost 44 thousand available.

If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck....

Replies:   Keet
Keet

@joyR

Especially as a quick search of 'no sex' versus 'some, much, stroke' shows that the percentage of non sex stories is less than 10% of the current almost 44 thousand available.

But I bet that the percentage No Sex/Minimal Sex has risen since the start of SOL and is still slowly rising. I'm almost sure the percentage Stroke is way down compared to ten years ago.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Keet

But I bet that the percentage No Sex/Minimal Sex has risen since the start of SOL and is still slowly rising. I'm almost sure the percentage Stroke is way down compared to ten years ago.


That will be difficult for anyone but our webmaster to determine. The category search doesn't allow date range filtering.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater
Updated:

@Dominions Son

Category search sorted by date and look for number at date cut off.

Number of stories on SoL - 43,850

Number of No Sex stories on SoL - 4,450

Number of No Sex stories on Sol since 1 May 2009 - 2,850

Number of No Sex stories on SoL before that - 1,600

.................

Number of Minimal Sex Stories on SoL - 2,586

Number of Minimal Sex Stories on SoL since 1 May 2009 - 2,209

Number of Minimal Sex Stories on SoL before that - 377

....................................

Number of stories on SoL 50 kb or less - 28,109

Number of stories on SoL 50 kb or less since 1 May 2009 - 12,195

Number of stories on SoL 50 kb or less before that - 15,914

............................

Number of Stroke stories on SoL - 2,861

Number of Stroke stories on SoL since 1 May 2009 - 2,011

Number of Stroke stories on SoL before that - 850

edit to add: due to category search rules needed a category so I ran search twice - once with no 2nd POV stories and once with only 2nd POV stories and added the numbers together.

REP

@Ernest Bywater

and go to the enxt part of the plot development


Unfortunately in many of the stories I've tried to read, the next part of the plot development doesn't exist. There is just a do nothing scene that evolves into the next series of sex scene. Then repeat, repeat, repeat until the storyline becomes meaningless.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@REP

Unfortunately in many of the stories I've tried to read, the next part of the plot development doesn't exist.


Which is why it was a mistake to change the definition of "stroke." It used to be something like "sex with no plot." Now it's "mostly sex" which implies there's a plot rather than simply being a stroke story. The new definition changes readers' expectations.

The bottom line, folks, is you all are complaining about poorly written stories. You all are singling out sex scenes, but a badly written scene/story is a badly written story.

For me, it's the sex stories that sets SOL apart. I can pick up any novel in the public library and it will be better than a "no sex" story on SOL. That's going to rub some of you the wrong way, but saying a story with explicit sex scenes is crap rubs me the wrong way.

Replies:   PotomacBob  Ernest Bywater  REP
PotomacBob

@Switch Blayde

I can pick up any novel in the public library and it will be better than a "no sex" story on SOL.


Which "no sex" story on SOL did you have in mind? Or are you condemning ALL of them?

Ernest Bywater

@Switch Blayde

For me, it's the sex stories that sets SOL apart. I can pick up any novel in the public library and it will be better than a "no sex" story on SOL.


Sure they do, have you tried reading that weird thing named something Bones where the dead girl is the MC? Hell, I've seen grade school summer holiday writing assignments that are better.

docholladay

that is where the reader has to help out. When errors are found let the writer know about them. As readers we are both editors and proof-readers. If they are so minor as to be insignificant its a tossup as to whether to report them or not. But above all as a reader remember that the writer does not have to share their stories with us. i admit that I tend not to report minor errors since they don't interfere with the story.

Lapi

@Ernest Bywater

Sorry to not be able to agree with your 'vocal majority' I had ten Pens and when I saw a 9 rating go to 6.0 and 8.5 the responses I got were 'Your stories did not have any erotic sex in them so 'I' put them back as to 6's. So far 120 stories rate no more than in the 7's even though the votes were mostly 8-10.

Replies:   joyR
REP
Updated:

@Switch Blayde


but saying a story with explicit sex scenes is crap rubs me the wrong way.


So far I haven't read any comments in the Forum, past or current threads, that say a story with explicit sex scenes is crap.

What I have read are comments about stories that are presented to the reader as having a 'plot', but turn out to be just a series of sex scenes aren't worth reading. I suppose you could say such stories, which have no real plot or storyline, are crap.

ETA: sex scenes, explicit and those with minimal detail, need to be an integral part of a story's plot, not the story.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@REP

I suppose you could say such stories, which have no real plot or storyline, are crap.


They are stroke, but unfortunately the new definition of "stroke" doesn't reflect that.

I guess I may have overreacted when I claimed that people say stories with explicit sex scenes are crap. But what I hear here is that people don't read stories with "much sex" because they don't expect a good story simply because it has a lot of sex. You can have a plot, good characters, and good story AND still have plenty of graphic sex. But the assumption is if it has a lot of sex it's not good which I called "crap."

Replies:   REP  doaftheloaf
REP

@Switch Blayde

I have absolutely no problem with stories that include numerous sex scenes. I even read them, if the author makes them interesting.

All to often, what I encounter is repetitive, boring sex scenes that add nothing to the story. I just skip those and hope there is more to the story than just sex scenes.

joyR
Updated:

@Lapi


So far 120 stories rate no more than in the 7's even though the votes were mostly 8-10.


Whilst I to have received complaints about the lack of sex scenes in some stories, I don't think that is the sole reason for your scores dropping, the scoring system does that to every story.

And no, I'm not going to explain the subtitles as the subject of scoring has been done to death, buried, exhumed, ad nauseam.

ETA

As you have turned off scoring for all but one of the 50 stories posted under 'Lapi' it seems you have already found a solution to the issue.

doaftheloaf

@Switch Blayde

Too much sex in a story can be tiresome after a while, but as long as the story itself is good I don't count it as a major gripe. I can skip through the 63rd sex scene if the story keeps me entertained. And some of the "much sex" stories are actually good stories with a real plot and real characters. That's fine.

What I don't care for is when the sex IS the story. I do call it "crap", because to me, not only is there very little story, but it takes away from the sex as well. We have nothing invested in those characters. It's just two people fucking. If you can't be bothered to make anyone care about them, why should I read that story when I can read any other on SOL?

Replies:   Switch Blayde
shinerdrinker

I only have one story here so far. I do have sex in there and there probably will be more as the character ages and the other main character settles in his own skin. But I make use of the divider lines and usually set up a scene that if you want to read the sex scene go ahead, however, if you'd like to skip it, then just look for the divider. I will always make sure the story is readable for both preferences since it is also my preference.

That's my two cents.

Replies:   Keet  Switch Blayde
Keet

@shinerdrinker

I only have one story here so far. I do have sex in there and there probably will be more as the character ages and the other main character settles in his own skin. But I make use of the divider lines and usually set up a scene that if you want to read the sex scene go ahead, however, if you'd like to skip it, then just look for the divider.

I'm sure a lot of readers appreciate the way you make it easy to skip sex scenes, I know I do. But I wonder, why add those scenes in the first place since they apparently add nothing to the story and when not read take away nothing from the story? Wouldn't it make an even better story with only those sex scenes left in that actually are important to the story?

I will always make sure the story is readable for both preferences since it is also my preference.

If you set up your stories like that, may I suggest you post a version without the sex scenes on Finestories?

Replies:   doaftheloaf
doaftheloaf

@Keet

It's not even that a sex scene in a well-written story doesn't add anything to the story. Sometimes it does. It's that the sex scenes are not, in themselves, a story. If the only purpose of your story is to get to the sex, you're probably wasting your time writing it.

Replies:   joyR  John Demille
joyR

@doaftheloaf

If the only purpose of your story is to get to the sex, you're probably wasting your time writing it.


Absolutely not..!!

Whilst I agree that not every story here is worth the paper it isn't printed on, I most vehemently disagree with writing being a waste of time, how exactly does a new writer go from learning the alphabet to first place on the best sellers list without writing anything you or anyone else might consider 'a waste of time', practise makes perfect, discouragement does not.

Perhaps the author set out to simply describe their dream sex scene?

Maybe the author struggles and is practising writing sex scenes?

Could be the author just enjoys writing stroke stories?

Regardless, how dare you pass off a sex only story as a "waste of time" ?

richardshagrin

a "waste of time"

Time travel to lose weight, get a waist of time.

Switch Blayde

@doaftheloaf

What I don't care for is when the sex IS the story. I do call it "crap"


That's stroke by the original (better) definition. No plot. Just sex.

That has nothing to do with sex scenes. I can say the same for fight scenes in a badly written ninja story. Or a superhero story where all he does is beat up the bad guys one after another without a plot or character development.

Why pick on sex stories? There are a ton of stories with no sex or minimal sex on SOL that don't get me invested in the character. Where I don't care what happens.

John Demille

@doaftheloaf

If the only purpose of your story is to get to the sex, you're probably wasting your time writing it.


I write stroke stories. I like writing stroke stories. My stories are nothing more than about sex. I don't consider it a waste of time.

How about you show us what you do to not waste time? Written anything recently? Nothing? then don't discourage others.

Switch Blayde

@shinerdrinker

But I make use of the divider lines and usually set up a scene that if you want to read the sex scene go ahead,


Then the scene isn't needed.

In my current work-in-progress novel, the head of a drug cartel forces a woman to transport drugs across the border. Part of her duties is to "accommodate" the border guard. There's a sex scene where the guard sexually uses her. There's also a crooked cop who sexually uses her.

Why are those scenes there? One, to show her anguish and her sacrifice to protect her family. Two, to put a strain on her marriage. Three, to show how despicable the bad guys are so the good guy can murder them vigilante style. There's another reason too, but it would be a plot spoiler.

Something just happened that made the husband realize why his wife was doing what she was doing and I'm about to write a very loving sex scene between the two of them (he had been shunning her since their troubles began). It's important for the development of their relationship.

So if the reader skipped those sex scenes they would have no idea what the plot was about. They wouldn't understand the characters. They wouldn't feel for the characters. They wouldn't hate certain characters. They wouldn't accept the hero being a vigilante.

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