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Why would anyone bother to write a do over or time travel story where the mc doesn't remember anything

aj702452 🚫
Updated:

Hello all I have seen a few of these here and on other sites where a story involving an mc that is transported into the past or another dimension in the past or gets a do over but then they remove all or most of the mc memories. In my opinion this is a cheep shot of attracting readers who like the time travel type of story to read your general story set in medival times or the 50's or whatever what is the point of an mc from the future in the prehistoric times if we don't see his future knowledge and or views affect him and the people there if he forgets everything then it's just a story about some random shmuck in prehistoric times the time travel or do over or whatever is then in my opinion a false tag

Replies: Keet REP Remus2

Keet 🚫

@aj702452

Remembering a past life or having 'future knowledge' are not necessarily required to write a good do-over or time-travel story. The MC can be provided with 'new' knowledge by aliens or provided with guided experiences, tools, or powers. If I remember correctly there is even a story where one or more prehistoric cavemen are 'enhanced' to a higher IQ which is used to better their life and society. Authors can be very creative in writing entertaining stories where no memory of a previous life is preserved.

REP 🚫

@aj702452

I don't know which do-over/time travel story you are thinking of. You will have to tell us what story you have in mind.

The majority of the stories of this type that I've read have the MC using their prior life history and knowledge to guide their current life.

Replies: Switch Blayde aj702452

Switch Blayde 🚫

@REP

The majority of the stories of this type that I've read have the MC using their prior life history and knowledge to guide their current life.

I think the majority (if not all) of the ones I've read is an older person going into a young body with the knowledge and experience of the older person intact.

I believe this genre is for those who think back to their awkward teenage years and say, "If only I had known … at that age. Things would have been different." Remember, it's a "do over."

aj702452 🚫
Updated:

@REP

There are a few on this site as well as other sites that have this issue I'm talking about I usually dump them from the first page or two or even the description such as this from a recent story billed as time travel
"My take on the man displaced through time/alternate worlds/whatever. The hero arrives naked, almost defenceless, with no memory of his past. How does he cope, and why is he there?"
Why involve time travel in this description or story just say it's a story in an au with an amnesiac mc no time travel is necessary the only reason it's mentioned in my opinion is to draw people atracted to the time travel jaunra

Replies: JohnBobMead

JohnBobMead 🚫

@aj702452

Why involve time travel in this description or story? Just say it's a story with an amnesiac MC; no time travel is necessary, the only reason it's mentioned in my opinion is to draw people attracted to the time travel genre.

I agree with you 100%; without any memories, what does the MC bring that makes it being a different time period relevant?

The only thing I can think of is that if it is a society with good records capable of IDing amnesiacs, there will be no such record for the MC, so they would be totally at the mercy of the society they found themselves in with no built-in safety net of family or knowledge of the time.

But I would be really PO'd if I'd decided to read it because it was tagged as a do-over and that's what they did. Because, in a do-over, you get to do your life over, with the additional life experience you had up to your death influencing your decisions.

Wheezer 🚫

I've read a couple of stories where the MC retains their memories, but has only vague memories of future significant stock market trends, events or sports dates that they could use to amass wealth, so no easy trip to riches.

Replies: AmigaClone PotomacBob

AmigaClone 🚫

@Wheezer

I've read a couple of stories where the MC retains their memories, but has only vague memories of future significant stock market trends, events or sports dates

I personally consider the way the MC's memory is treated in those kinds of stories to be fairly realistic.

Lazlo Zalezac's blog on August 27, 2018 - partially quoted below touches that topic.

...might remember the past, but that doesn't make them omniscient. To remember things from the past, one has to have first noticed them. So while you might be cursing that they aren't taking advantage of this or that event, remember that most of the time they were too busy trying to figure out how to maneuver through life on their first past to notice the bigger picture. They do remember the price of gasoline skyrocketing before they were able to get a drivers license. What impacted them is remembered. Just remember, 1973 was 44 years in the past for someone who died in 2017.

Replies: StarFleet Carl

StarFleet Carl 🚫

@AmigaClone

I personally consider the way the MC's memory is treated in those kinds of stories to be fairly realistic.

Exactly. And what the person was experiencing at the time would have an impact on what they remember as well. I remember Secretariat won the Triple Crown, but until I just googled it, I didn't remember it was 1973. I remember watching the Reds win back to back World Series, but I didn't remember is was in 1975 & 1976.

PotomacBob 🚫

@Wheezer

Today, right now, I only have vague recollections of today's markets - much less what happened at some time in the past. I do remember that the Miami Dolphins had an undefeated season sometime in the 70s (I think), but not with enough precision to bet on it if I got sent back to that time period.
I only remember what I remember. I don't remember what you remember and I have no idea whether my memories are typical or atypical.
The only way I could get rich quick in times past is if somebody enhanced my memory before I got there.
The thing about time travel/do over stories that I find annoying is how selective the mechanism is in transporting stuff back in time. Somehow, the mechanism always seems able to take back an armory full of modern weapons and ammunition, but not the toilet paper, trash, rocks, dirt and ... you name it. The motive, I guess, is so that modern time travelers have unfair advantage over the people trying to make it through life in their own society.

Remus2 🚫

@aj702452

In my opinion this is a cheep shot of attracting readers who like the time travel type of story to read your general story set in medival times or the 50's or whatever what is the point of an mc from the future in the prehistoric times if we don't see his future knowledge and or views affect him and the people there if he forgets everything then it's just a story about some random shmuck in prehistoric times the time travel or do over or whatever is then in my opinion a false tag

I'm usually the one to ignore grammar and spelling errors within reason. However, that paragraph sentence was painful to read, even for me.

Regarding your question, it's because they can. There are many stories here that make no sense to me. Then again, they don't have to, it's their story to write as they please. If it reaches a point of bothering me, I just move on to the next story and put the author on my do not read list. I suggest you do the same.

ChiMi 🚫

Sometimes it is done to not let the MC get overly powerful or rich.

In reality, the butterfly effect should impact the stock exchange heavily a decade after the MC plays with the market.
Except for some specific events, you wouldn't be able to rely on your future knowledge after you played the market for some time.
The money you make, won't be available somewhere else, you would invest differently then someone had originally done.

Let's say you brought stock from a company that you knew was going to skyrocket. Some other broker would have done the same in the original timeline, but now the stock is pricier because you bought x amount of stock and the other broker had a cut-off price that was going over the amount he decided was worth it.
So all the money he would have invested was going into another stock.

Second scenario: In instances where the stock price wasn't directly influenced by the release of a product or the events in the world, you would have a stock that was going up steadily just on loyalty and long-term-planning. Again, if there were one or several other broker who had a cut-off price, you would basically direct their money elsewhere, and what if it was Warren Buffet or some other influential broker who uplifts the stock just because he has trust in the company? Or a big Investor who takes on an influential role inside the company either because he threatens the company with his stocks to do xyz or is given a seat on the board and is a very positive influence on the direction of the company?
Sometimes investors have to threaten with a sellout to get the company to change things, maybe you as a big investor had to steer the company in a specific direction to get the stock price you remembered, but this would not have been public knowledge.

Third Scenario: You would dump all your stock on the highest price you remember because you know it wouldn't get higher and it would have been stupid to hold onto it longer. This would negatively impact this company and the price would be lower than in reality, possibly upsetting a whole bunch of things. On the other hand, you can't even know the highest point of a stock because you changed it with your own investment.

Replies: aj702452

aj702452 🚫

@ChiMi

While that is true there are several ways to benefit from future knowledge without actually affecting the stock price appreciably such as trading the rise or fall of stocks than actually buying them. also you would need to be dumping many millions of dollars into or out of stocks for most robust companies to have their stock price be that affected its that volatility more than anything that changes the price or scares away potentiall investors so also buying small amounts over time can mitigate that. So unless you plan to be the next warren buffet rich your mc stock buying probably isn't going to affect the system that much even considering butterflie effect.

aj702452 🚫
Updated:

Thanks guys for all your replies I apologize for the grammar I typed on a phone not my usual device. I completely agree with the mc not having an omniscient knowledge that's fine and makes for interesting challenges that's not what I am talking about.
I meant mc is transported Into the past via whatever method then has a absolutely no future knowledge or complete amnesia or only remembers that he is from future and he regrets his life choices but with No actual data I am objecting to the use of the time travel tag or description in these types of stories,what is the point except to draw people who like time travel story's the time travel has no bearing on the story or very little it's just a story set in the. Past with a unique character

When I read a time travel or do over I want to see the mc's future knowledge or view point affect the decisions and actions how they use knowledge of the future to better their lives get an advantage or whatever if the mc forgets everything then I'm just reading a story set in the past and there is nothing wrong with that if it's well written it's just not a time travel story in my opinion

Switch Blayde 🚫

Y'all are missing the point of the OP. It has nothing to do with using his memory of the future to make money or gain power. The OP says the story has the MC go into the past and have no memory of his old life. Not which stocks to buy, but his experiences. At least that's how I interpreted it.

So it's not a do-over story.

Replies: awnlee jawking REP

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

While I agree with your interpretation of the OP, not being familiar with any instances*, I wonder if the point is for the protagonist to take modern morals/ethics back with them eg standing up to bullies, treating women etc as equals, not being afraid of being different.

* I'm following The Nowhere Man by Gordon Johnson and although the protagonist doesn't start with any specific memories left of his past, he retains the benefits of his military experience. I guess the story doesn't match the OP's criterion.

AJ

REP 🚫

@Switch Blayde

So it's not a do-over story.

I would disagree. According to the code definitions - a Do-Over is getting to do one's life all over again.

That doesn't necessarily mean the MC has to recall all or any portion of their prior life. Maybe some of their prior life's moral code, good or bad, came through and will influence how the MC behaves in their new life.

The MC may not recall all of their past life; but as I said earlier, I can't recall a single story in which the MC doesn't recall at least some of their life.

Earlier, I asked the OP for an example of a Do-Over story where the MC has no recollection of their prior life and got no answer. Can you or someone name a story where the MC has no recollection of any part of their prior life?

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@REP

a Do-Over is getting to do one's life all over again.

The implication has to be that the MC uses his former experience in his do-over life. That's the genre.

If not, all we're talking about is reincarnation.

Replies: Dominions Son REP

Dominions Son 🚫

@Switch Blayde

The implication has to be that the MC uses his former experience in his do-over life. That's the genre.

I mostly agree with this, but I can also see where if it was done right (no idea how easy this would be) it could be handled at a mostly subconscious, gut instinct level.

Replies: samuelmichaels

samuelmichaels 🚫

@Dominions Son

I mostly agree with this, but I can also see where if it was done right (no idea how easy this would be) it could be handled at a mostly subconscious, gut instinct level.

I am not sure this can be done successfully. Refusenik tried to do it (kind of) in the first version of Human Phoenix, but it didn't work and he removed it.

Replies: REP

REP 🚫

@samuelmichaels

Refusenik tried to do it (kind of) in the first version of Human Phoenix, but it didn't work and he removed it.

I'm not sure which version of the story I read. However, what I read wasn't a do-over. It was a boy who had been stabbed. Aliens restored his life and he continued on from that point without reliving any portion of his life.

Replies: samuelmichaels

samuelmichaels 🚫

@REP

The first version of Human Phoenix had the stabbed boy actually recreated from the memories of an adult man who died in an unrelated heart attack (and whose mind was collected by the aliens). I think his initial approach was to have the boy retain no actual memories, but reactions and reasoning of an adult male.

But, the story didn't work that way, and didn't really benefit from the adult's memories.

REP 🚫

@Switch Blayde

The implication has to be that the MC uses his former experience in his do-over life.

I agree, but that is not what the OP presented. He said the MC remembers nothing or almost nothing of his former life.

The OP may be talking about 'Nowhere Man' by Gordon Johnson. But, it is a time travel story, not a do-over. If I recall, the time traveler lost his memories (cause suspected to be a side effect of time travel, not removed), and his the memories are gradually coming back.

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@REP

I agree, but that is not what the OP presented. He said the MC remembers nothing or almost nothing of his former life.

Agree. That was the reason for the OP. He said it was mis-tagged as a do-over because the MC didn't remember his previous life.

Replies: REP

REP 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Part of the problem is that it is difficult to agree or disagree with him because he failed to identify the story he was addressing.

Nowhere Man , my guess, has a number of the elements that he commented on; but, it isn't coded as a do-over and a number of the elements he mentioned aren't in Nowhere Man.

Replies: aj702452

aj702452 🚫

@REP

Hello part of the reason for that is that my post isn't about a specific story it's about the general practice of tagging a story as time travel or do over and then having the mc not remember anything.
I have read many stories with this problem they are sometimes great stories but my whole point was that the tags didn't bring anything to the party there was no need for it to be tagged time travel or do over if there is no major influence from the future what's the point of calling it time travel.
you can write a great story with the same plot points just say the character has amnesia or whatever.

Replies: Switch Blayde REP

Switch Blayde 🚫

@aj702452

and then having the mc not remember anything.

Then how would the MC know he went back in time?

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Then how would the MC know he went back in time?

As Devil's Advocate, there have been instances of people with amnesia who can't remember who they are or where they live etc but can still recognise and use everyday objects around them eg flush toilets, cookers, cars.

If they had simultaneously been sent back in time, wouldn't they recognise the absence of flush toilets, even if they couldn't name them?

AJ

REP 🚫
Updated:

@aj702452

what's the point of calling it time travel.

Story plots are based on many things. The MC traveling back in time or the MC reliving their life and each has traits common to those types of stories. Readers who like a specific type of story look for similar stories.

Codes are assigned for several reasons. One reason is readers who like a certain types of story, such as time travel or a do-over will expect to see the relevant codes assigned to the story. The specifics of the story may have the MC remembering everything in detail or just barely recognizing that things have changed.

A do-over is actually a specific type of time travel story. One element of time travel stories is the MC's actions and concerns in regard to time travel or doing things differently, which is often part of the plot. An element of do-over stories is fantasy fulfillment in that we all wish we could do certain things in our past differently.

Stories need conflict or challenges that the MC must overcome. So yes, the MC arrives naked with what could be called amnesia. Then as the story unfolds, the MC starts recalling bits a pieces of their past and dealing with their new environment, or past environment in the case of a do-over.

If story plots of this type bother you, then maybe time travel and do-overs are types of stories that you should avoid. If so, just check the codes for informing readers of objectionable story content is one of the main purposes of the codes.

Replies: Tw0Cr0ws

Tw0Cr0ws 🚫

@REP

Maybe instead of avoiding time travel or do-over stories there needs to be a tag for amnesia to warn the readers.

The OP does not object to time travel or do-over stories but seeks them.

Replies: Switch Blayde REP

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Tw0Cr0ws

Maybe instead of avoiding time travel or do-over stories there needs to be a tag for amnesia to warn the readers.

I don't know if we need a tag for them, but there are stories like that. Jason Bourne is one. Also, "The Last Kiss Goodbye." But they don't go back in time.

REP 🚫

@Tw0Cr0ws

True, but his complaint is really about not liking the content certain authors put in their stories in respect to the assigned codes.

AmigaClone 🚫

I have seen several stories that were considered a do-over where the MC was actually in someone else's body but retained their memories of their personal history.

I did a category search on the doover tag and sorted it decreasing by score. Of the first 10, there is one that the MC is not the one undergoing the do-over, one that I would not classify as a do-over, 5 that have the MC going back to his teenage self and 3 that have an adult going into a teenager's body.

AmigaClone 🚫

That complaint has existed ever since the codes were created :) .

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Forum: Story Discussion and Feedback

Why would anyone bother to write a do over or time travel story where the mc doesn't remember anything

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