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Is Making Out sex?

Uther_Pendragon

One of the hardest parts of posting -- as opposed to writing -- stories here is deciding "How much sex."

It wouldn't solve all my problems, but it would solve some of them to know whether to include making out in the sex.

I'm now posting a story in very-short chapters once a week. Of the 14 chapters so-far written, 12 involve either making out or intercourse. Is that "much sex"?

less than half of them involve intercourse. Is that "some sex"?

Since the tags are supposed to communicate to readers, I thought asking readers is the reasonable route.

robberhands

@Uther_Pendragon

I thought asking readers is the reasonable route.

I did that once and received silence in response. Of course, I'm certain it was a thoughtful silence.

Ernest Bywater

@Uther_Pendragon

less than half of them involve intercourse. Is that "some sex"?


If there's no genital contact of any sort I'd call that 'no sex.'

REP

@Uther_Pendragon

I don't recall any stories on SOL that focused on making out. There are numerous stories that mention it, usually on the way to more intimate details.

Replies:   Uther_Pendragon
LonelyDad

All making out is sexual. The way I have been interpreting things is that 1st base (kissing) doesn't count towards the sex tags. I see the sex tags as covering 2nd and 3rd base, and home run. 'Some sex' to me refers to frequency, where it adds to the story and/or character development, but is not a major part of the story. 'Much sex' is where there is a high frequency of sexual acts, that are a non-trivial part of the characters involved and the story line.

StarFleet Carl

@LonelyDad

'Much sex' is where there is a high frequency of sexual acts


Would that basically be considered a 'Grand Slam'? :)

Replies:   Dominions Son  RedCzar
Dominions Son
Updated:

@StarFleet Carl


Would that basically be considered a 'Grand Slam'? :)


No.

In terms of sex and bases, a "grand slam" would probably be equivalent to a "trip around the world"

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Trip%20around%20the%20world

RedCzar

@StarFleet Carl

A grand slam is a home run with three runners on base, so there are at least 5 players involved.

Crumbly Writer

@LonelyDad

All making out is sexual. The way I have been interpreting things is that 1st base (kissing) doesn't count towards the sex tags. I see the sex tags as covering 2nd and 3rd base, and home run. 'Some sex' to me refers to frequency, where it adds to the story and/or character development, but is not a major part of the story.

You've got a point, but most of the tags on SOL are centered around either avoiding personal squicks, or seeking out your own perversions (so to speak). Thus your ideas tend to fall apart. No one is going to label a story which never advances beyond 2nd base as "much sex", no matter how frequently they do it. In fact, such a story would qualify for Fine Stories, which is by definition, a "No Sex" site which is considered safe for kids (with a high-reading level).

I wouldn't consider anything below a home run (relying on your baseball analogy) as counting towards the sexual content at all. Hopefully, your story will make the simple act of kissing incredibly sexual, as that's the nature of good writing, but it still doesn't rise the level the codes were designed for.

Screwing a different person in the ass ever single chapter? THAT's what the codes were designed to reflect!

Replies:   PotomacBob
PotomacBob

@Crumbly Writer

"Sex" means PVI - Penis Vaginal Intercourse. Everything else is just playing around.

robberhands

@PotomacBob

"Sex" means PVI - Penis Vaginal Intercourse. Everything else is just playing around.

I that a theological or a scientific statement?

Replies:   PotomacBob
PotomacBob

@robberhands

I that a theological or a scientific statement?


It means exactly what I want it to mean. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Replies:   robberhands
robberhands

@PotomacBob

It means exactly what I want it to mean. Nothing more. Nothing less.

And what do you want it to mean? I ask because without a context it doesn't mean anything.

Replies:   PotomacBob
PotomacBob

@robberhands

I ask because without a context it doesn't mean anything.


You hang out on a sex site and you don't understand Penis-Vaginal Intercourse? From the beginning: boys have a penis, girls have a vagina ... For more details, I suggest a 5th grade sex education class.

Replies:   robberhands
Michael Loucks

Sex is whatever my wife decides it is. After all, that's who I have to answer to with regard to fidelity! If SHE thinks it's sex, it's sex, no matter what touches where!

robberhands

@PotomacBob

I suggest a 5th grade sex education class.

Thanks. Now I understand the context of your statement.

Uther_Pendragon

@REP

I don't recall any stories on SOL that focused on making out. There are numerous stories that mention it, usually on the way to more intimate details.


Well, some of my short-shorts do. "Quest," "Zeno," and "Teachers Pet" are examples.

Then, too, the site has a "no-sex" code; so, presumably, some stories involve less sexuality than even that.

Barahir

To me, there's a pretty fair argument for assigning those tags rough percentages (which will probably end up being personal)...Minimal Sex ix X%, Some Sex is Y%, and so forth.

That's not quite how I view it, though. I just finished writing a chapter in which there isn't a single instance of sexual contact that's nonetheless full of overt sexuality. The designated lust object is goaded by a third party into talking about her experiences doing nude modeling in college, and then a nude photo shoot that ended up with her having sex with the photographer. The third party gets naked (they're relaxing on a boat), and her entire mission is split between flirting with the DLO and trying to tease the MC into paralysis, which mostly works. The whole chapter's like this.

To me, that chapter as a standalone story would merit a Minimal Sex tag (because I think tagging it No Sex implies things that aren't true). But in the context of a long story in which some chapters include sex and some don't, on my mental tally it counts as a sex chapter. Whereas a character could be masturbating "offscreen" (that is, noted but undescribed) for a full 50% of a chapter and I'd still call that a mostly sexless chapter.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Barahir

To me, there's a pretty fair argument for assigning those tags rough percentages (which will probably end up being personal)...Minimal Sex ix X%, Some Sex is Y%, and so forth.


That's how I do it, but I base it on the amount of sex as a percentage of the whole story. Thus some chapters have a lot of sex and some have no sex at all.

Remus2

Everyone's opinion is going to vary on this subject. I don't believe there is a wrong answer either.

My personal reason for being here is not for rosey palm material. I take issue with modern fiction of any genre applying filters of any kind to fiction.

In the meat world, I've experienced and or witnessed some very bizarre behavior and events. Some of it humorous, some of it horrible, some of extreme kink, ad nauseam. I've also listened to some extremely fucked up reports from people who've lived through things a person should never hear of, or want to know.

Based on my personal and admittedly relatively small sample size, I'd say at least half of the world's population has either experienced or witnessed something sexually that cannot be considered vanilla. I'd also place three quarters of the world's population as sexually active.

So who bells the cat? Who makes the call what is little, some, or lots of sex? Who defines what it is for that matter?

What I look for in a story is not how much, but does it fit the storyline. Further, does it pass the smell test of the human condition that I know exist. That is my personal take on the question, yours very likely vary.

red61544

@PotomacBob

"Sex" means PVI - Penis Vaginal Intercourse. Everything else is just playing around.

"Potomac Bob" is just a pseudonym for Bill Clinton, isn't it?

awnlee jawking

@PotomacBob

"Sex" means PVI - Penis Vaginal Intercourse.


Try posting a story including anal penetration of an 11yo and you'll find the Canadian authorities take a different view ;)

AJ

Replies:   Uther_Pendragon
Uther_Pendragon

@awnlee jawking

Try posting a story including anal penetration of an 11yo and you'll find the Canadian authorities take a different view ;)


The Canadian authorities -- I'm judging by on-site limits -- regard nudism as sexual activity for youth. (The rules I've seen cover naked infants, but that's truly sick.)

Crumbly Writer

@PotomacBob

"Sex" means PVI - Penis Vaginal Intercourse. Everything else is just playing around.

So anal sex and all gay sex, of whatever form, is by your definition, "just playing around", as the participants are simply buying time before getting around to the 'real thing'?

I get your point, but your overly specific terms are a bit disconcerting.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

So anal sex and all gay sex, of whatever form, is by your definition, "just playing around"


I am definitely not going near a golf course with anyone who thinks playing a round has anything to do with anal sex of any form.

RedCzar

So where does cyber-sex fit into this then?

According to these definitions, it wouldn't seem to count. Although most girls I know would disagree.

Replies:   REP  Crumbly Writer
REP

@RedCzar

So where does cyber-sex fit into this then?


The general consensus in this thread seems to be sex requires physical contact, so cyber-sex doesn't qualify.

Replies:   RedCzar  Dominions Son
RedCzar

@REP

Most girls I know would disagree with you about that.
Cyber is SEX. period. and it's cheating. and if they catch you, you are F****D

Replies:   Remus2  REP
Dominions Son

@REP

The general consensus in this thread seems to be sex requires physical contact, so cyber-sex doesn't qualify.


I would consider mutual masturbation to be sex, to cyber-sex may or may not qualify, depending on circumstances.

Remus2

@RedCzar

I have to agree with your interpretation of reality. Most females do consider cyber as sex. I don't agree with that stance, even though I recognize it as mostly true.

What I understand less is why they do. The only guess I'd put forward is they are connecting it emotionally, which they in turn interpret as cheating.

Crumbly Writer

@RedCzar

So where does cyber-sex fit into this then?

Cyber-sex is the modern equivalent of flirting (for all those girls who've given up on getting a commitment before moving in together).

Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

I would consider mutual masturbation to be sex, to cyber-sex may or may not qualify, depending on circumstances.

To most people, you're correct. But we weren't discussing 'most people', but instead what's considered to be 'sex' in SOL stories. Even for gay stories on SOL (as rare as they are), mutual masturbation is considered merely 'flirting' as the characters build up to the 'full' sex act.

REP
Updated:

@RedCzar

No, cyber-sex is provocative flirting. I agree, if your wife/girlfried catches you flirting you are dead.

AmigaClone
Updated:

@Dominions Son


I would consider mutual masturbation to be sex, to cyber-sex may or may not qualify, depending on circumstances.


My personal description of those terms are as follows.

Mutual masturbation - two or three people sexually stimulating each others genitals with their hands at the same time.

I would call two (or more) people masturbating while watching each other to be public masturbation.

The term Cyber Sex can be used for anything from text messages to two people seeing each other in high definition and full audio. The closest Cyber sex comes to actual sex would be it including video of public masturbation - least at our current level of technology.

RedCzar

All the facts and definitions are great, but if I'm writing it into my stories, I need to treat it as it is in the real world. In the real world, I don't know ANY woman who would not consider cyber-sex to be cheating.
In my experience they consider it "sex". (I have seen relationships split over this)

Women, feel free to join in here.

Dominions Son

@RedCzar

In the real world, I don't know ANY woman who would not consider cyber-sex to be cheating.
In my experience they consider it "sex".


Many, if not most women would consider normal flirting to be cheating. I don't think that means that they consider flirting to be sex.

Crumbly Writer

@RedCzar

All the facts and definitions are great, but if I'm writing it into my stories, I need to treat it as it is in the real world. In the real world, I don't know ANY woman who would not consider cyber-sex to be cheating.
In my experience they consider it "sex". (I have seen relationships split over this)

I'm no woman (tee-hee-hee), but we started out discussing what was the considerations were on SOL. Here, sex is ONLY full penetration, of one form or another. But in the real world, sex includes a whole host of things, covering anything from simple flirting to simply battling an eyelash at the wrong person, and playing word games, as Bill Clinton did, wins you NO converts.

By the way, pardon my clearly sexist joke earlier, ladies.

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