Forum: Story Discussion and Feedback

Should Lazeez be notified

I believe that merely using his name in a forum posting triggers a notification to him, pointing at the forum post presumably.

I don't know why Marc's story is so similar to Lellan's story.

It's the same story, it's just been re-written. It's not a cut & paste job.

At the time I read it several years ago it had the same plot, same situations, same events, same outcomes. Marc did a much better job on the story, but the fact there was no mention of it being based (the same story, just written by another person) on another story put me off reading anything else of his, no matter how well written.

Thank you Grant and least someone understands that Marc Nobbs basically stole his story. I agree and it is wrong and now has put me off on reading anything from Marc Nobbs.

I did go to his Facebook page and asked why he stole from Lellan but haven't received a reply yet.

Since the two worked together, he probably decided to 'modify' the opening scenes to provide a common reference point.

I am curious now; are you saying they worked together? I have seen people question here whether they worked together and even Lazeez said he should have credited Lellan. If in fact you know they collaborated then I can forgive Marc but if it is conjecture then I stand by my original opinion.

And Yes the IDIOT in Charge can't read as its been attested to he has the attention span of a gnat. Only one page briefs and big text. LMFAO if I wasn't Crying and Blushing in Embarrassment for having to admit he's POTUS.

However the stories similarities are too close to identical to discount anyone confusing the fact that Marc Nobbs is a literary thief.

I can't compare the stories, since I'm not a premier member (although it seems to me I read A Good Man before, the descriptions for that and the sequel sound very familiar). However, by your logic, are ALL the Time-Travel-by-Alien-or-Deus-Ex-Machina stories stolen from cmsix (or whoever wrote the first one)? Surely they all share a similar genesis - does that make everyone a Literary Thief?

I have a hard time believing that both stories have co-existed on the site for seven years if one of them was stolen, especially since it appears this has been discussed before.

Personally, I have a bigger problem with some dead-tree authors that put their names on books primarily or entirely written by others, even if they were contracted to do so. But that's just me.

Personally, I have a bigger problem with some dead-tree authors that put their names on books primarily or entirely written by others, even if they were contracted to do so. But that's just me.

You mean like that well know teen horror series of books that continue to appear on shelves long after the author has died?

Have you never heard of collaborations where three or more authors all start with the same basic premise and then go off to write their own story based on it?

More recently, I remember oyster50 posting Overboard and two other authors (Friar Tuck and Handyman) writing much longer stories based on that flash story. I do recall oyster50 mentioning that they were doing that with permission on a blog

As the original OP I still feel he stole a lot of his storyline. I can start and list them:

1: Breaks up fight on patio as waiter sitting minding his own business as new stepfather says who his step daughter is going to marry. Its identical if not word for word. (This is one of the easiest for all readers to read and debate as it is available for non-premium users. Read both Chapters 1 and on Marc Nobbs you must get to the bottom of the page to see the total similarities but they are plain if not word for word then he changed some of the dialogue but it is straight plagiarism)

2. Sister of MC runs catering company and MC is orphaned except for sister.

3. Female MC to inherit family business but stepfather is working on plot with football player(both US and UK) to steal company.

4. Mother demands that daughter breakup and go on dates that she arranges with "eligible " bachelors.

5. Both UK & US footballers beat up MC overgirl and are involved in raping members of towns.

I know there are more but tired of typing. Anyone else please expand on the similarities and let's "Call a Spade a Spade"; Marc Nobbs stole most of his storyline.

I haven't read "A Good Man" for a second time (since it went Premium) but from what I remember there are plenty more similar parts.

Except as pointed out, plot can't be considered the subject of copyright and or plagiarism. For example, Mean Machine is a British set version of The Longest Yard. Think about how many Harry Potter-esquire stuff comes out. Some procedural shows have the exact same thing happening every episode with only the names of things changed.

Pretty much every great plot that can be written has been, we just really mix it around

I stand by my point of plagiarism if you read both chapter 1s and compare the scene on the patio.

That isn't plot differences but theft IMHO and that is what I'm saying not Lazeez.

I however understand why he thinks Marc Nobbs is an "ass" for not crediting the original author but I just think he's an "ass" and a "thief" and it's wonderful that we can a have our own opinions.

I just am curious if I'm the only one who thinks Marc Nobbs a thief?

My apologies to Marc Nobbs.

I still think Marc should credit Lellan in his story here on SOL.

Only my opinion, so other readers won't come to the same conclusions I have.

But Lellan specifically declined that. Plus worst case, someone comes to the forum and looks it up and it will be found here...

I originally didn't search the forums for the first posts of this question. When I did and found the original post the conclusion of said post was that Lazeez determined that because "the words" were not identical there was no plagiarism.

I am curious to how many of the registered users even find the forums or read them. I'll admit that for the first 10 years or so that I had never been to the forum section.

So a credit to Lellan(desired or not) no way diminishes Marc's work, but does justly acknowledge an early influence of the author.

I am curious to how many of the registered users even find the forums or read them. I'll admit that for the first 10 years or so that I had never been to the forum section.

I'm almost at 10 years but it took more then 7 to start looking into the forums.

Thanks Keet at least I feel better that I wasn't the only one missing a valuable part of SOL. I may not always agree with the posts but at least it seems that the Forum here remains quite informative, civil and diverse in its posts.

I do hope that all readers will enjoy both "Spirals" and "A Good Man" as both are Very Good stories.

I may not always agree with the posts but at least it seems that the Forum here remains quite informative, civil and diverse in its posts.

I totally agree. I stay far away from the RSM (rubbish social media) but this is currently the only forum I visit and participate in.

Okay, so I'm the past before the forums what would you have done? 1). Lowvote the story
2) send a message to the author

You say you avoid social media but this thread is pure social media at its finest. You straight up attacked someone, accusing them of plagiarism multiple times and saying there's no way it's not despite multiple people explaining how it's not, and then when you find out the story and that it's been resolved before you knew of either story's existence, still insist that it should be handled in a different way than the author you thought was copied wanted.

It's settled between the authors, how is your insistence at this point that an unwanted crediting should happen any different than all the people who tell authors how their stories should go?

Okay, so I'm the past before the forums what would you have done? 1). Lowvote the story
2) send a message to the author

You say you avoid social media but this thread is pure social media at its finest.

Now you have me confused. First I NEVER "1 Bomb" a story. Search your posts as I generally give all authors "10s" because I appreciate authors hard work and I HATE "1 Bombs" with a passion. If someone takes the time to create a story then no matter the squick code that usually results in a "1 Bomb" it is undeserved. I also was TEN BOMBING stories because of all the posts I read that a user "1 Bombed" a story because of a missing squick code.

Second I'm not the one who posted his disdain for social media. I second the thought of facebook trolls and only interact on it by business requirements. Most usually linkedin but even that is few and far between.

How would I handle it is exactly how I have. Messaged the author on his facebook page as that had the most recent activity. I also posted this in the forums. Then feeling that I should search forums and read the results contained.

After all that and with Marc's response a comment by him letting other readers know that the similarities exist between his and Lellan's stories is quite appropriate. Why do I say this? Multiple reasons: Marc is a commercial author, all authors on this site seem to complain about thefts of their works for sale on Amazon, Goodreads and other sites, even Marc acknowledges the similarities and unrecognized influence that "Spirals" had on his story so making that public will keep readers from making the same accusations that I did.

But now If anyone searches the forums about this, the most likely thing to pop up is this long thread calling him a plagiarist, and most might not read to the middle to find out the truth.

But if the other author has said "don't credit me" then you don't credit them. I see why you're saying he should, but I think respecting the other author's wishes is also important

But if the other author has said "don't credit me" then you don't credit them. I see why you're saying he should, but I think respecting the other author's wishes is also important

This comes down to the fact that everyone is entitled to their own opinions; you have yours and I have mine.

In regards to a search of the forums; trying searching "Spirals" which is what I did and you can see other threads which have differing conclusions.

Yes, but the opinions that should matter are those of the two authors directly involved. If they consider the matter settled and a moot issue, why do you become the gatekeeper of what should happen? Why intervene in this issue between other authors?

I just questioned whether or not it was plagiarism. I'm done with this and I ask why you are also pushing your opinion as the only valid ones are the two authors.

I have said everyone is entitled to their own opinions, so I have mine and you have yours.

THE END

This comes down to the fact that everyone is entitled to their own opinions;

You ARE entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.

but you're not entitled to your own facts.

I thought this was dead and buried.

What "FACT" am I creating as my own?

I apologized to Marc Nobbs.

I disagreed with his decision to not acknowledge Lellan's influence on Marc Nobbs story.

I didn't ignore any fact but am voicing "MY OPINION" that Marc Nobbs comment that he was influenced unconsciously by Lelland's story "Spirals".

What "FACT" am I creating as my own?

You said:

I realized that the beginning (what I've read so far) has been copied from another author here on SOL

That is untrue. It was not copied. Marc's story may have been modeled after the earlier story, but was not copied.

That is untrue. It was not copied. Marc's story may have been modeled after the earlier story, but was not copied.

cop·y
ˈkäpē/Submit
noun
1.
a thing made to be similar or identical to another.
"the problem is telling which is the original document and which the copy"
synonyms: duplicate, facsimile, photocopy; More
2.
a single specimen of a particular book, record, or other publication or issue.
"the record has sold more than a million copies"
verb
1.
make a similar or identical version of; reproduce.
"each form had to be copied and sent to a different department"
synonyms: duplicate, photocopy, xerox, run off, reproduce, replicate; More
2.
imitate the style or behaviour of.
"lifestyles that were copied from Miami and Fifth Avenue"
synonyms: imitate, reproduce, emulate, follow, echo, mirror, parrot, mimic, ape; MoreTg

Thats all from Google Definitions. Once Marc replied about his messaging with Lellan I APOLOGIZED.

In regards to REP; without this thread "We as in SOL Readers" would be unaware of Marc's contact with Lellan.

Lazeez only stated in original threads regarding these stories that he ran a text comparision program and it didn't contain matches.

My original question on this thread was is this not plagiarism because of the similarities and I voiced my opinion that it was. Having heard from Marc Nobbs; I have since apologized to him earlier in this thread.

If someone wants a more specific apology then here it is along with my opinion.

Dear Marc Nobbs,

I apologize for calling you a thief and a plagiarist for your story, "A Good Man"'s obvious similarity to Lelland McLemore's story "Spirals". If you had bothered to include a comment that there were similarities between your story here and another authors on SOL and the other author was aware and unconcerned we wouldn't have had this thread at all. You don't have to "credit" anyone by name, but a "comment" in MY Opinion should have been done.

Once again I'm sorry for the words I used.

Sean

Except this isn't just straight copying someone else's work. Sure, similar plot lines, but if that were the case all the Harry Potter like clones wouldn't have been published, anything with a romantic tragedy wouldn't be published, etc. the Bible wouldn't be published...

Plot lines aren't subject to copyright, that's the main thing to consider. The words themselves are but th plots aren't. If I want to try and publish a story about a magical girl orphan with a moon shaped scar on her cheek who finds out she's a witch from a giant, I'm legally allowed to.

A lot of them might also be trademark complaints as opposed to copyright complaints. And remember, in America you can sue for anything even without grounds. Said attorney's could also be willing to just take the money—look at the whole #cockygate issue recently, where an author got a generic trademark that was supposed to only apply to a series of books (can't trademark a singular book) and sent C&D letters to anyone who used the word, series or not. Granted she did half her shit without the attorney and is having to surrender the trademarks, but still, she tried even with no grounds and even in that case she's the victim

Look to movies for inspiration (White House Down and Olympus has Fallen at the same time, Armageddon and Deep Impact, two volcano movies at the same summer, etc)

There was widespread surprise in the media that the case against Dan Brown failed because in 'The Da Vinci Code' he even swiped character names from the plaintiff's work.

"The Media" has little to no understanding of how "intellectual property" law works.

"Intellectual property" is an umbrella term that covers three distinct areas of law, copyright, trademarks, and patents, each with it's own requirements and types of protections.

It is very difficult to actually get individual character names protected under copyright. To get such protection the names would have to be extremely distinctive. A common or semi-common first and/or last name in a real world setting would likely not be protect-able under copyright.

Trademarks could be used to protect character names, but unlike copyright, trademarks are not automatic. A trademark must be registered.

Common terms (and names) can not be trademarked.

Trademarks are only protected within a given field (specified in the registration application).

In the US, the registration process includes public notice by the Patent & Trademark Office and the opportunity for others in the field to oppose the registration.

And blow me if he was right - not just
about the first chapter, but about the
similarities of the plot in the early part of my
novel.

Even Marc Nobbs admits to the similarities so I agree with REP that a comment should be added. :)

Sometimes people don't want to be credited. I know it's hard to believe but it does happen—think of uncredited roles in movies, rewrites, etc.

At that point crediting someone who has been asked and declined to be credited becomes rude and against wishes.

Lellan said he didn't want to be recognized as the source.

I know I said I was done with this thread but people keep making unverified statements. We only have Marc Nobbs word that Lellan said this. I'm not making accusations but am curious if Lellan would respond and fill us in. I wrote him an email through SOL and still haven't heard back. Just saying.

At this point, it is Marc Nobbs'undisputed word. And in any event, SOL determined 7 years ago that the story has a similar plot but uses different words. Many story tellers do that. "Pretty Woman," the movie, was similar to "Cinderella." "Pinocchio" had scenes similar to the Biblical story of Jonah and the Whale. Just saying.

"Pretty Woman," the movie, was similar to "Cinderella." "Pinocchio" had scenes similar to the Biblical story of Jonah and the Whale. Just saying.

Similar scenes in a different story, and the same storyline with the same scenes (with some minor differences), are not the same thing.
Just saying.

This, this was my point!