Home « Forum « Story Discussion and Feedback

Forum: Story Discussion and Feedback

Is there netorase in Arlene and Jeff?

Blakt

As title says, I am wondering if there is any netorase (MC's partners having sex with others with MCs consent) in Arlene and Jeff.

I've enjoyed the story so far, I'm about 30 chapters in on book 2, but I've seen some signs that someone of MCs wives might eventually get it on with Dave, even if it's just to help Daves wife out. I really don't like cheating, ntr, netorase etc (I'm glad I continued through the first few chapters anyway tho), so instead of anxiously waiting for something to happen, I figured I might just ask if someone has read it and can reassure me, or tell me if something does happen so I can drop it and find something that won't twist my panties to read.

REP

@Blakt

I'm current on the story and there has been no playing around.

Replies:   Blakt
Blakt

@REP

Thanks for the quick answer, that's great. I've been enjoying it immensely and I would have hated it if it had gone down that route!

doctor_wing_nut

I gave up on that 'epic' (?) years ago, when it seemed everyone was marrying their daughters.

sunkuwan

yeah, they are big on marriages, like every 20 chapters is a new girl that gets introduced, imprinted and then intermarried.
It read more and more in later chapters like a slave-basar where new woman and girls were mind controlled and added to one of the "Alphas"

Really, does anyone remember one woman that visited the Hotel and didn't get imprinted to one of the alphas if they didn't bring their own alpha?

Replies:   Wheezer  robberhands
Wheezer

@sunkuwan

yeah, they are big on marriages,

The endless (or so it seemed) cookie-cutter marriage ceremonies is a main part of what caused me to abandon the story - that, and my wife was getting upset with me for screaming "fucking do something, already!" at the computer monitor

robberhands

@sunkuwan

Really, does anyone remember one woman that visited the Hotel and didn't get imprinted to one of the alphas if they didn't bring their own alpha?

A few non-alphas escaped with their wifes still in tow. On the other hand I think you underestimated the number of snatched females. I think it's more like 10 chapters per new wife.

Crumbly Writer

@Blakt

As title says, I am wondering if there is any netorase in Arlene and Jeff.

Thanks for introducing me to a new word. I searched for a official dictionary entry, only to discover it's a largely 'made-up' word combining two existing Japanese words. I doubt I'll find many times I can use it, since it has little relevance outside of Japanese anime. Still, given it's overuse there, I can see where it's become a squick for some on story sites.

docholladay

What I liked was the fact that instead of the men pushing for more wives. Most of the time its the women in the relationships that push for another one to join the harem instead of the men.

Replies:   sejintenej
sunkuwan

That's just the mind control at work

Replies:   REP
REP

@sunkuwan

That's just the mind control at work


It's is all Little One and Ship's fault.

sejintenej

@docholladay

Most of the time its the women in the relationships that push for another one to join the harem instead of the men

The same in Second Chance.

As to the original message, from the definition given (MC's partners having sex with others with MCs consent) that could include relations between the several wives of one man as occurred in both Second Chance and Arlene and Jeff

Replies:   REP
REP

@sejintenej

that could include relations between the several wives of one man as occurred in both Second Chance and Arlene and Jeff


It's not clear what you are saying. It sounds as if you are saying the one 'Alpha's' wife is having sex with a second Alpha. To my recollection that has never happened in Jeff and Arlene. Although there was one instance of Jeff's wife cheating on him with another man, but there were extenuating circumstances.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Ernest Bywater

@Blakt

netorase


I haven't read A&J, so I didn't take much notice of this thread, at first. However, the word netorase wasn't familiar, so I checked it in the dictionary - it doesn't have it, neither does Wikipedia or any on-line English dictionary I can find. I assume it's some foreign language word to mean the same as partner voyeurism. Is it?

Replies:   sunkuwan
sunkuwan

@Ernest Bywater

It's just cuckold in Japanese.

urban dictionary:

netorare
literally means "cuckold" and shortened as NTR is a hentai genre where in a heroine will be introduced as having a significant other, which may be a husband, a boyfriend, or even a partner in a BST affair. The story will then show the aforementioned heroine being intimate with another man thus provoking jealousy in the audience by proxy.

Ernest Bywater

@sunkuwan

It's just cuckold in Japanese.


Why da heck didn't they say that in the first place?

Not_a_ID
Updated:

@REP


It's not clear what you are saying. It sounds as if you are saying the one 'Alpha's' wife is having sex with a second Alpha. To my recollection that has never happened in Jeff and Arlene. Although there was one instance of Jeff's wife cheating on him with another man, but there were extenuating circumstances.


Not quite. To be explicit, as per the definition given. We have Male Main Character A (MCA), and female partners B and C. (FPB, FPC)

In the event that FPB engaged in sexual activity with FPC without MCA present, but consent having been given to do so. And Arlene has done that one during one of the observation missions, IIRC. That said such content is very rare in A&J out of hundreds of chapters, I doubt there are even 5 examples of it happening.

I don't generally consider the initial rape/blackmail situation as qualifying, although some would potentially flag for NTR from that alone, even if Jeff did do a number on the guy(and never consented to it)

Replies:   REP
Not_a_ID

@sunkuwan

literally means "cuckold" and shortened as NTR is a hentai genre where in a heroine will be introduced as having a significant other, which may be a husband, a boyfriend, or even a partner in a BST affair. The story will then show the aforementioned heroine being intimate with another man thus provoking jealousy in the audience by proxy.

Took me a bit to connect it to NTR. Arlene and Jeff has characters in it who would likely love nothing more than to carry out some NTR(and some of the baddies have tried).

But the thing here is there are two major flavors(and many other variants) I've encountered.

Either the woman is a bitch and ultimately "comes out" as cuckolding the guy because "he isn't man enough" and well... She's a bitch.

Or the woman is being blackmailed/coerced into cuckolding the male, and it escalates until she's "outed" in front of him and the string puller then proceeds to do one of 3 things: they
1) Denegrate/mock the "unmanly" guy directly and openly.
2) Denegrate BOTH the man and the woman involved directly and openly.
3) Have the woman denegrate/mock the guy being NTR'd. (Willingly or not on her part by then-- "Mindbreaking" is also a common theme that turns up in this particular case)

Crumbly Writer

@sunkuwan

literally means "cuckold" and shortened as NTR is a hentai genre where in a heroine will be introduced as having a significant other, which may be a husband, a boyfriend, or even a partner in a BST affair. The story will then show the aforementioned heroine being intimate with another man thus provoking jealousy in the audience by proxy.

In most of the examples cited, it's NOT cuckolding, as it's simply teasing to provoke a reaction by the husbands/boyfriends.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


In most of the examples cited, it's NOT cuckolding, as it's simply teasing to provoke a reaction by the husbands/boyfriends.


It's a particularly nasty form of cuckolding all things considered. The male partner on the receiving end doesn't enjoy it(it isn't a kink for them), at all, and unlike in Arlene and Jeff(where the baddies learn why it was a very bad idea), they're also utterly incapable of doing anything about it... And "forced" to allow it to continue by one means or another. (Breaking up/divorce/canceling the wedding isn't an option available--Plot Armor helps with this aspect, only the villain has it rather than the MC)

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Not_a_ID

It's a particularly nasty form of cuckolding all things considered. The male partner on the receiving end doesn't enjoy it(it isn't a kink for them), at all, and unlike in Arlene and Jeff(where the baddies learn why it was a very bad idea), they're also utterly incapable of doing anything about it... And "forced" to allow it to continue by one means or another. (Breaking up/divorce/canceling the wedding isn't an option available--Plot Armor helps with this aspect, only the villain has it rather than the MC)

I've never put up with it in real life. If someone is willing to flirt with someone else, just to get a rise out of them, it's clear they're not into me. If they feel the need, I'm history. I don't mind 'innocent flirting', like I'd do with a waitress where there are no expectations of anything, but belittling me has no appeal to me. I value my self-worth more than someone's fickle affection.

And, if I wouldn't put up with it in real life, then WTF would I put up with it as a plot device?

I can see why it's a squick for some.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
REP

@Not_a_ID

And Arlene has done that one during one of the observation missions, IIRC.


You would have to be more specific because from my recollection all of Arlene's observation partners have been female.

I do agree with you that the scene referenced doesn't fit the criteria.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@REP

You would have to be more specific because from my recollection all of Arlene's observation partners have been female.


The initial definition given doesn't distinguish between gender, so the various forms of the ff hotcode would qualify.

Replies:   REP
Not_a_ID
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


And, if I wouldn't put up with it in real life, then WTF would I put up with it as a plot device?


Well, it's a kink genre in Japan. Target demo is probably a mix of dominants(who place themselves in the role of bad guy/girl), and sexual submissive types who get off on the idea of being on the receiving end. (Much like rape fantasies) With a sprinkling of others who may pick it up for other reasons(kinks) that are advertised as being present. (Which is how I've had my encounters with it, as elements I go looking for tend to be common enough in many, but not most, NTR works)

Generally speaking though, I'm sure what the abundance of NTR material in Japanese hentai says about both sadistic and masochistic tendencies in their population at large(going beyond the dom/sub aspects), unless it is some kind of weird train wreck thing going on.

Replies:   robberhands
robberhands

@Not_a_ID

Generally speaking though, I'm sure what the abundance of NTR material in Japanese hentai says about both sadistic and masochistic tendencies in their population at large(going beyond the dom/sub aspects), unless it is some kind of weird train wreck thing going on.

The sheer amount of Japanese porn on the net is astounding, already. If you look further into it (For purely scientific reasons, of course), then you quickly will realize that the Japanese are either the most kinky society on earth, or the most tolerant and opened minded...it might be both.

Replies:   Not_a_ID  Crumbly Writer
sunkuwan

and they have the silliest censoring law

Replies:   robberhands
robberhands

@sunkuwan

and they have the silliest censoring law

Seconded!

Not_a_ID

@robberhands

The sheer amount of Japanese porn on the net is astounding, already. If you look further into it (For purely scientific reasons, of course), then you quickly will realize that the Japanese are either the most kinky society on earth, or the most tolerant and opened minded...it might be both.


The Dutch might have them beat when it comes to "live action" though.

I think generally Japan/"the far east" in general has a number of things going on. The BIG one is it doesn't have the direct cultural imprinting of the Judeo-Christian faith stretching back centuries into the past, at least as a population as whole. (Enclaves may be another matter)

Japan and S. Korea have a weird double whammy in that they went from "traditional society" to being brought forcibly into a western mold at the close of WW2. Of which Japan received the brunt of it under McArthur where a lot of "Christian ideas" were imposed upon them externally. (The most notable casualty for the "alternative lifestyle crowd" on that front was the change that happened regarding hot springs and mixed bathing. Mixed gender, nude bathing was commonplace, right up until the end of WW2 and the occupation of Japan by US Troops--with US (christian) cultural mores and expectations.

Watching Anime/Hentai, or their print counterparts, you'd be led to believe gender segregated hot springs/bathing was the "time honored tradition" that went back centuries, rather than the decades it actually does.

BUT concurrent with all that, the 1950's also saw the rise of Playboy Magazine, and the numerous other porn rags that followed it. The "sexual revolution" of the 1960's and 70's had to be all kinds of confusing from the Japanese perspective as they tried to further "westernize" their society. In that context, it's no small wonder that Japanese society seems to be all kinds of screwy, even by American standards, when it comes to sex and sexuality.

Making things even more loopy on the Japanese side, which makes NTR kind of make sense, is their comparatively recent departure from being a feudal society. In particular one with a long and rich history they have every right to be proud of. (As well as now having the ability to be fully aware of the seedier bits as well with comparative ease.)

It is that feudal link which makes NTR seem a bit less extreme in their context. Dom/Sub is simply their transposing the Lord/Liege relationship, and its off to the races from there.

Throw in modern feminism, something else that they likely "imported" from 1950's/60's America, and you have the classic setup for "disempowered male" who "is worthless" and "completely at the mercy of others"(even women) which basically sums up NTR from the male perspective.

So basically, it's a bunch of sexually frustrated Japanese men QQ'ing over the "decline of the patriarchy" back when "men could be men" and why the focus is on "you're not man enough to _____."

Replies:   robberhands
robberhands

@Not_a_ID

That was a truly impressive declaration.

Blakt
Updated:

I never really bothered looking up if "netorase" was a real word or not since I had seen it as a tag on novelupdates. Anyhow, I've got an other question about Arlene and Jeff. I've read the first 2 books now, and I felt like the quality dropped after the first 30-40 chapters in book 2. It went from Jeff and his family coming together, training etc to face the threat of hagewood or whatever he's called. Then suddenly it all shifted direction and the rest of book 2 is basically focused on all of Jeffs friends getting their harems up and running. I get that it's to show that they're all alphas etc, but so much fucking time is spent on it. Who really wants to read about the sex life of completely irrelevant characters (looking at you construction crew trio), or characters you don't really care much about, like the sheriff? It'd be way better if it was more of Jeffs PoV instead of getting these long insights of so many different characters lives, I don't know how many chapters I've skimmed through about farming.

So now that the rant is over, you can probably guess my question which is, does the focus go back to Jeffs family any time soon in book 3 or will it keep shifting between all the different alphas? By the end of book 2 I wasn't even sure that Jeff was the main character anymore. He didn't really do anything at all besides the Joyce incident, other than go around and help the other alphas and their women. It doesn't feel like Jeffs plot has progressed much at all for a long time.

Replies:   REP
sunkuwan

short answer: nope

long answer: it gets worse. When you are in the chapters 200 to 300 there will be many many weddings and new alphas, 80% weddings (I'll include the introduction and sightseeing tours of the new slaves) 10% Plot and 10% prison planet. And the prison Planet is really the only thing that got me through the 300's. I quit after 375.

REP

@Not_a_ID

The initial definition given doesn't distinguish between gender, so the various forms of the ff hotcode would qualify.


You obviously forgot that in your posts to me, you said:

Not quite. To be explicit, as per the definition given. We have Male Main Character A (MCA), and female partners B and C. (FPB, FPC)

Replies:   Not_a_ID
REP

@Blakt

My personal opinion is that the focus changed. A couple of new threats have been introduced. The detailed activities of the other families in the group are no longer the focus.

The main theme is now preparing to defend Earth from anAlien spaceship that has entered our Galaxy with the intention of conquering Earth. A subplot addresses the life of a criminal who was sentenced by the General to a primitive prison planet with minimal resources. A second subplot is Jeff's group is preparing to leave Earth to find Ship's home planet.

RoustWriter indicated that he intends to end the story with the Alphas and Ship leaving Earth to start their search. I recall a projected end date as sometime this year.

Crumbly Writer

@robberhands

The sheer amount of Japanese porn on the net is astounding, already. If you look further into it (For purely scientific reasons, of course), then you quickly will realize that the Japanese are either the most kinky society on earth, or the most tolerant and opened minded...it might be both.

I suspect there's actually a third option, one of the more social repressed (conformance is king), so many people 'act out' rather than dealing with issues directly (punishment because they feel resentful of playing their assigned roles, humiliation for the men who put up with virtually anything and dominatrix motifs for the women who expect more of an independent streak in their men).

But then, these are just random observations from someone who has no real connection to Japanese culture.

@sunkuwan

and they have the silliest censoring law

Yeah, you can basically show ANYTHING, as long as you place a thin black bar over it (which you can easily see around).

I wish most of our stupid laws were as simply to circumvent!

Not_a_ID

@REP

The initial definition given doesn't distinguish between gender, so the various forms of the ff hotcode would qualify.

You obviously forgot that in your posts to me, you said:

Not quite. To be explicit, as per the definition given. We have Male Main Character A (MCA), and female partners B and C. (FPB, FPC)


What I referenced:

As to the original message, from the definition given (MC's partners having sex with others with MCs consent) that could include relations between the several wives of one man as occurred in both Second Chance and Arlene and Jeff

Replies:   REP
REP

@Not_a_ID

It isn't clear what you are trying to say.

In the original post, aoeraer defined netorase to mean: MC's partners having sex with others with MCs consent. The way aoeraer worded the post, "Having sex with others" implies an MC granting their partners permission to have sex outside of their relationship. If you read aoeraer's other posts, 'Jeff's POV' is mentioned, which tends to imply that aoeraer views Jeff as the MC. So what aoeraer appears to be asking is: Does Jeff give his wives permission to have sex with people outside of their relationship. My answer was NO, and that also applies to the other Alphas.

It's a particularly nasty form of cuckolding all things considered. The male partner on the receiving end doesn't enjoy it(it isn't a kink for them), at all, and unlike in Arlene and Jeff(where the baddies learn why it was a very bad idea), they're also utterly incapable of doing anything about it...


In this comment to CW, you are saying cuckolding took place in Jeff and Arlene – that is not true.

So what are you talking about:

1. An Alpha and his partners having sex with each other, which did occur in the story.

Or

2. One of an Alpha's partners having sex outside their relationship, which would be cuckolding, and didn't happen Jeff and Arlene.

awnlee jawking

@REP

Didn't Jeff have oral sex with another alpha's woman with the other alpha's permission?

AJ

Replies:   REP
REP

@awnlee jawking

Not to my recollection.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
robberhands

@REP

In this comment to CW, you are saying cuckolding took place in Jeff and Arlene – that is not true.

If I remember correctly, 'cuckolding' is exactly what happened to Jeff in the first few chapters of the story.

Replies:   REP  Not_a_ID
REP

@robberhands

I agree and said so in an earlier comment.

Your comments have been about scenes after that incident. So what I was referring to was, cuckolding amongst the Alphas after the incident. I might point out that Jeff wasn't defined as an Alpha until later in the story.

Replies:   robberhands
robberhands

@REP

I agree and said so in an earlier comment.

Sorry, I didn't read that far back. So I was a bit confused about the statement.

awnlee jawking

@REP

I think it may have been one of the pilot's women. Jeff won a bet (or something) and was supposed to have full sex with her but couldn't bring himself to do it.

AJ

Replies:   robberhands  Not_a_ID
robberhands

@awnlee jawking

I think it may have been one of the pilot's women. Jeff won a bet (or something) and was supposed to have full sex with her but couldn't bring himself to do it.

Nope, it was the pilot and his daughter who became the mate of another alpha...wait, maybe I'm wrong and it was Colonel Mustard with the candlestick in the library.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@robberhands

Professor Plum in the Kitchen with the lead pipe.

Not_a_ID
Updated:

@REP


In this comment to CW, you are saying cuckolding took place in Jeff and Arlene – that is not true.


In that quoted section, I'm discussing NTR as commonly presented in Japanese Hentai, not anything that happened in Arlene and Jeff(except as a contrast). This is a problem with a serial discussion format like this rather than threaded ones. You're getting confused from comments happening "on a different track" from which the other ones are running.

You should also note that while A&J does get directly mentioned there, it's being used as the example of the reverse being the case when anything close to it comes about. As the Alpha's could do something about it, they didn't just sit down and accept it.

Replies:   REP
Not_a_ID

@robberhands

If I remember correctly, 'cuckolding' is exactly what happened to Jeff in the first few chapters of the story.


Jeff and Bill have both been cuckolded in the course of the story. However, neither one of them "accepted it" once they became aware of what was happening. Further, they did something about it. Which makes that "not NTR" in the larger scope, as it lacks "the defeated male partner who has no choice but to accept."

Bill's case is probably the closest things get to NTR.

Not_a_ID

@awnlee jawking

Jeff won a bet (or something) and was supposed to have full sex with her but couldn't bring himself to do it.


Yes, this was in one of the recent chapters, and that was how it basically played out. It was offered, the conditions were met for the offer to become valid, but no follow-through. So still not NTR.

robberhands

At first, I thought I'd have to look out for one more tag to avoid but luckily on SoL there is no 'NTR' tag. So it's still only stories with the well-renowned 'Cuckold' tag I've to dodge.

REP

@Not_a_ID

and unlike in Arlene and Jeff


To me that is you directly relating your discussion of NTR with the story and what happened in the story.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@REP

To me that is you directly relating your discussion of NTR with the story and what happened in the story.


...as not being NTR. At least, that's my typical experience when someone says something is unlike something else. But then I guess in this modern age of facebook, I need to remember some people may read it as un-like where someone removed their "like" vote on something.

Replies:   REP
REP

@Not_a_ID

Just to clarify what was said.

Sunkuwan defined netorare as:

literally means "cuckold" and shortened as NTR is a hentai genre where in a heroine will be introduced as having a significant other, which may be a husband, a boyfriend, or even a partner in a BST affair. The story will then show the aforementioned heroine being intimate with another man thus provoking jealousy in the audience by proxy.


CW responded with:

In most of the examples cited, it's NOT cuckolding, as it's simply teasing to provoke a reaction by the husbands/boyfriends.


Then you responded with:

It's a particularly nasty form of cuckolding all things considered. The male partner on the receiving end doesn't enjoy it(it isn't a kink for them), at all, and unlike in Arlene and Jeff(where the baddies learn why it was a very bad idea),


You can try to spin it anyway you wish, but you were addressing NTR as cuckolding, and in my interpretation the phrase "and unlike in Arlene and Jeff(where the baddies learn why it was a very bad idea)" is you saying there was cuckolding in J&A and the baddies learn why cuckolding was a very bad idea.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID
Updated:

@REP



It's a particularly nasty form of cuckolding all things considered. The male partner on the receiving end doesn't enjoy it(it isn't a kink for them), at all, and unlike in Arlene and Jeff(where the baddies learn why it was a very bad idea),



You can try to spin it anyway you wish, but you were addressing NTR as cuckolding, and in my interpretation the phrase "and unlike in Arlene and Jeff(where the baddies learn why it was a very bad idea)" is you saying there was cuckolding in J&A and the baddies learn why cuckolding was a very bad idea.


Tut, tut. You cut off the part where I differentiated NTR from "cuckolding in general" into being a more specific form of it. ALL NTR is cuckolding, but not all cuckolding is NTR.


It's a particularly nasty form of cuckolding all things considered. The male partner on the receiving end doesn't enjoy it(it isn't a kink for them), at all, and unlike in Arlene and Jeff(where the baddies learn why it was a very bad idea), they're also utterly incapable of doing anything about it... And "forced" to allow it to continue by one means or another. (Breaking up/divorce/canceling the wedding isn't an option available--Plot Armor helps with this aspect, only the villain has it rather than the MC)


In the case of Jeff, he was able to do something about it, and never had to accept it.

Bill's case is a bit more borderline, as he had essentially given up, but he had also ended the relationship, which wouldn't be an acceptable outcome for an NTR story. That Bill eventually had his moment of revenge(largely via Jeff) against the wrong-doer also moves it further away from the "NTR check-list."

Edit: And on that note, I think the real question regarding NTR was in regards to if Jeff and his fellow Alphas were "going NTR" on the non-Alpha men. Which they haven't done.

So no luring otherwise "committed women" away from existing (healthy) relationships and mocking the men they abandoned while generally going about emasculating them and making them maintain the pretense of still being in a relationship.

The Alpha's don't care much about appearances, so no need to maintain a pretense(in the form of fraudulent/cuckolding relationships--besides, they don't share). If they do extract someone female from an existing relationship, it was an abusive one, and the abuser gets their comeuppance in a non-sexual way, and it moves on from there.

medic975

They'd have to pause the dozens of weddings and actually advance plot to do so. So I doubt that any cucking would occur. Thanks for the new word though.

Back to Top