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Hey Ernest - Small nit to pick

limab
Updated:

In the narrator's voice or Pat's voice I can overlook Australian English but Rosa would not say "pushbike". It is just not used in American English - try "bicycle" or just "bike". It knocks me out of the story.

When I read pushbike I could only think of a velocipede or a Dandy horse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dandy_horse:)

As always, if you keep writing them, I'll keep reading them.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@limab

In the narrator's voice or Pat's voice I can overlook Australian English but Rosa would not say "pushbike".

Isn't a pushbike simply a broken bicycle, one which you can't ride, only push?

Replies:   Switch Blayde  limab
Switch Blayde

@Crumbly Writer

Isn't a pushbike simply a broken bicycle, one which you can't ride, only push?


It's a bike with a flat tire.

limab

@Crumbly Writer

It's the British for bicycle, as opposed to motorcycle.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
Ernest Bywater

Odd, I've seen US authors use the term pushbike before. However, since it seems CW and Switch agree with you, despite the two US editors I use not saying anything, I'll change it when I do the error correction revision after it's all posted.

Replies:   LonelyDad  Not_a_ID  REP
LonelyDad

@Ernest Bywater

Odd, I've seen US authors use the term pushbike before. However, since it seems CW and Switch agree with you, despite the two US editors I use not saying anything, I'll change it when I do the error correction revision after it's all posted.

Since I know you are Australian, and I could infer what a pushbike is, I just went on past it without really caring. But it would be in character for her to say bicycle instead of pushbike. In my fifty some years of reading, I have only seen pushbike used by Commonwealth authors. It is a nit, probably a medium-sized one.

That said, please keep on writing. As you know, we will call you on anything important (and sometimes not so important). Thanks for sharing your work with us.

Not_a_ID
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater


Odd, I've seen US authors use the term pushbike before. However, since it seems CW and Switch agree with you, despite the two US editors I use not saying anything, I'll change it when I do the error correction revision after it's all posted.


I'm going to add a further assent to that. I don't think I've heard an American use the term. If I heard someone use the term, I'd probably assume the bike was broken in some way and thus couldn't be ridden, hence it being "pushed" along down the road.

Alternately, I'd consider the possibility it is some kind of motorized bicycle that has some kind of "push start" feature to engage the motor. :P

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
awnlee jawking
Updated:

@limab

It's the British for bicycle, as opposed to motorcycle.


It's pretty archaic these days - I can't remember the last time i heard or read the term 'pushbike'.

A quick google search of SOL found only one user: Kris Me. Any idea what nationality he/she is?

AJ

Replies:   gruntsgt
Crumbly Writer

@Not_a_ID

I'm going to add a further assent to that. I don't think I've heard an American use the term. If I heard someone use the term, I'd probably assume the bike was broken in some way and thus couldn't be ridden, hence it being "pushed" along down the road.

Adding on to my previous comments, as an American, I still have trouble with the entire concept of a pushbike. If anything, it would be a pedalbike, as you only push one when it's no longer functional. That's akin to calling your brand new SUV 'compactor bait', ignoring the fact it'll continue functioning for the next twelve to twenty years.

The idea of a "push start" feature never even occurred to me, largely because I haven't encountered one since the 60s (back when we used to mow the lawn with push-mowers, which we really did push).

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

pushbike. If anything, it would be a pedalbike,


with a pushbike you push down on the pedals to make it move. A pedal bike was an early name for a type of moped where you pedalled for a little while to start the small engine on the thing - but they're very old.

I usually use the term 'bike' but recently read a Sol story by a US author who used the term pushbike, so I used it too - but I've already changed the master file to upload a change once I have all the nits reported.

What is interesting is two of my editors are from the US and both thought the term was OK to use. makes me wonder if it's another of those regional usage things.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
REP

@Ernest Bywater

I saw a similar word usage item but can't recall the word. When I have time, I'll find it and let you know.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@REP

I saw a similar word usage item but can't recall the word. When I have time, I'll find it and let you know.


Just don't worry about car lot or car yard or car park, OK.

Replies:   limab  REP
gruntsgt

@awnlee jawking

Kris Me (a Lady) is definitely Aussie

Replies:   awnlee jawking
limab

@Ernest Bywater

I saw that one also (carpark) but for some reason it didn't bother me. Probably because a) It wasn't dialog from a U.S. speaker and b) it didn't put an incorrect image into my head (where's the brain bleach for the guy on the dandy horse ,the drawing bothers me)

In the northeast Mass, New York area car lot would imply car sales and car yard gets defined the same by google. although for some reason I tend to think of train yards for car yards. I doesn't really matter, I'm ready for the next chapter tomorrow.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer  Not_a_ID
Crumbly Writer

@limab

In the northeast Mass, New York area car lot would imply car sales and car yard gets defined the same by google. although for some reason I tend to think of train yards for car yards. I doesn't really matter, I'm ready for the next chapter tomorrow.

A "car yard" also denotes a junk yard for abandoned cars, thus I wouldn't use it unless you're ready for readers to mistake your intent.

"Carpark" is the equivalent of the much more common "parking lot", though it often denotes a subset which features an automated car-parking service (i.e. no human involved), popular back in the 40s and 50s.

REP

@Ernest Bywater

car lot


That's it, so I won't

Zom

Definitely popular usage in Australia :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpCE3LCA1TI

Not_a_ID

@limab

In the northeast Mass, New York area car lot would imply car sales and car yard gets defined the same by google.


In my neck of the woods out west, a "car lot" would also be a place for the buying/selling of cars. A "car yard" would be a bit of an anomaly, but would likely evoke "junk yard" more often than not, so basically a "yard" full of (mostly) junked cars.

Using "car park" would probably get people to look at you funny, but they'd probably just translate it into "parking lot" or something closely comparable.

Replies:   StarFleet Carl
StarFleet Carl

@Not_a_ID

Midwest speak:
Car lot - where you buy and sell cars
Car Yard - never heard of it. We have junk yards and auto recycling places.
Car Park - typically a pay parking lot. If multi-story, then it's a parking garage.

And add my name to the 'what's a push bike' list. My next door neighbor has two motorized bicycles, and we know what a mo-ped is here (a small scooter type that is started with pedals). Other than that, something like a Honda Helix is called a scooter, since it's actually got a large engine in it.

Dominions Son

@StarFleet Carl

If multi-story, then it's a parking garage.


That can also get called a parking ramp.

Crumbly Writer

@StarFleet Carl

And add my name to the 'what's a push bike' list. My next door neighbor has two motorized bicycles, and we know what a mo-ped is here (a small scooter type that is started with pedals). Other than that, something like a Honda Helix is called a scooter, since it's actually got a large engine in it.

The islands in the Caribbean rely on motorized vehicles often, especially Jamaica and St. Martin, where they need to get up and down mountain roads, and many are former British colonies, but I've never heard the term "pushbike" used there either (not that I've ever visited each and every island).

awnlee jawking

@Ernest Bywater

with a pushbike you push down on the pedals to make it move.


I suspect the term 'pushbike' harks back to the very first instantiations where they didn't even have pedals, and riders had to push themselves along with their feet, like the Flintstones in their car or children on their scooters.

AJ

awnlee jawking

@gruntsgt

Thank you.

I've read some of her stories - very good too!

AJ

StarFleet Carl

Unless it's been changed since I served, it's not Right Turn.

It's 'Right, Face! Forward, March. Double time, March!" And of course, the ubiquitous, "Road Guards, left and right, post!".

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@StarFleet Carl

It's 'Right, Face! Forward, March. Double time, March!" And of course, the ubiquitous, "Road Guards, left and right, post!".


Nope, Right(or left) face would have the entire unit change direction at the same time. So if you have a unit of 30 marching in three columns of 10 after a right face, you have 10 columns of 3.

The proper command to turn while maintaining 3 columns of 10 would be "Column Right" (or left)

http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/the-basics-of-marching.html

Replies:   kimlsevier  REP
kimlsevier
Updated:

@Dominions Son

Pat's group was still standing still. So, Right Face is proper. However, to avoid confusing bystanders, he should have prefaced it with a preparatory unit name. Even some thing as simple as "Detail, Right Face." Then proceed as per StarFleet.

But, the important point is Right Turn is not a drill command in any branch of the US Military. Pat's mentors would have pounded that into his head.

Nope, Right(or left) face would have the entire unit change direction at the same time. So if you have a unit of 30 marching in three columns of 10 after a right face, you have 10 columns of 3.


The proper command to turn while maintaining 3 columns of 10 would be "Column Right" (or left)

http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/the-basics-of-marching.html



Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@kimlsevier

Pat's group was still standing still.


Okay. I haven't read the story, but since "Right Turn" was used, I assumed that they were marching.

REP
Updated:

@Dominions Son


Nope, Right(or left) face would have the entire unit change direction at the same time


To change a moving column's direction as you described the command is Right Flank or Left Flank.

Left and Right Face are only used when not in motion.

Ernest Bywater
Updated:

Enough on the marching, so things are different today to what I learned in formation marching all those years ago. I'll review in light of the link posted and emended it for the after posting reports revision.

Edit to add: yes, I did leave a few commands out to simplify it for the non-military reader - - which now appears to have been a mistake to do.

kimlsevier

@Ernest Bywater

Ernest, welcome to an impromptu meeting of your friendly neighborhood American LegionVFW Post. This is just how the conversation can go during social hours.

Enough on the marching, so things are different today to what I learned in formation marching all those years ago. I'll review in light of the link posted and emended it for the after posting reports revision.

StarFleet Carl

@Ernest Bywater

Enough on the marching, so things are different today to what I learned in formation marching all those years ago.


Um, today? That's why I said:

Unless it's been changed since I served


My entry date was in 1981, so 36 years ago.

It's not that things are different today from what you learned, probably the Australian Army uses those same commands today. It's just that they're not US Army commands.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@StarFleet Carl

My entry date was in 1981, so 36 years ago.


The last time I did formation marching on a parade ground was in 1975, so I readily accept I'm likely out of date.

At that parade the sergeant was surprised to find me in the formation for special marching practice, because a small group of us had been selected for the formal parade group at an important funeral. I was the bane of his life due to not being able to keep time in normal marching, but I had perfect timing for the funeral march. When we started I was the only one who could keep the mid-step pause exactly right for the march.

Replies:   FSwan
Ernest Bywater

When I saw I got a special thread of my own to deal with a nit or two of a story I was a bit upset, but have since decided to accept his as accolade that enough of you think the story is important enough to have in a thread of its own here in the forum.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@Ernest Bywater

Personally I'd prefer to see such story discussions here than conducted in a story's 'Comments' section.

Accept the accolade: it's a good story which deserves its score. FWIW, the minor nits haven't affected my enjoyment of the story.

AJ

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@awnlee jawking

Personally I'd prefer to see such story discussions here than conducted in a story's 'Comments' section.


I usually get these sorts of issues pointed out in messages or emails. I don't check the story comments section at the end of the story - that's for the readers to talk to each other, and not. Which is why the story end note says I don't check them.

Replies:   limab
FSwan

@Ernest Bywater

Ernest there's also the differences in American and British Army/Commonwealth drill commands and procedures.

The last time I did formation marching on a parade ground was in 1975, so I readily accept I'm likely out of date.SNIP

limab

@Ernest Bywater

Sir I would. But I am using Comcast which doesn't talk to your ISP. I really didn't expect this to take off like it did, sorry.

limab

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@limab

Sir I would. But I am using Comcast which doesn't talk to your ISP. I really didn't expect this to take off like it did, sorry.


No worries.

BTW. The new SoL messaging system doesn't use emails, but is like a private message board through the site.

gmontgomery

Errm, unless he's gotten an Executive Order authorizing it, I don't think the senator gets Secret Service protection. The US Secret Service's protection duties are Executive Branch centric.

Ernest Bywater

@gmontgomery

The US Secret Service's protection duties are Executive Branch centric.


My understanding from a number of services is each member of Congress is assigned a small team and one of their jobs is to review security at where they live. But I'll look into it further, it may be something from an older time that's stopped.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@gmontgomery

The US Secret Service's protection duties are Executive Branch centric.


Not quite, but you are correct, the Secret Service does not normally protect members of Congress.

Here is who they protect:

https://www.secretservice.gov/protection/

The President of the United States

The Vice President of the United States

The President's and Vice President's immediate families

Former Presidents, their spouses and their minor children under the age of 16

Foreign heads of state and their spouses visiting the United States

Major presidential and vice presidential candidates and their spouses

Events designated as National Special Security

Events by the Secretary, U.S. Department of Homeland Security

Replies:   imsly1
Dominions Son

@Ernest Bywater

My understanding from a number of services is each member of Congress is assigned a small team and one of their jobs is to review security at where they live.


Members of Congress, do get a security detail while they are in the capitol and only while they are in the capitol. However, those details are provided by the Capitol Police, not the Secret Service.

http://thehill.com/capital-living/cover-stories/295415-lawmaker-security

gmontgomery

You maybe conflating the Secret Service with the Capitol Police. The CP are the Congress' police force. So, a senator would call on them for help. The Secret Service would get involved by Executive Order. Not an impossibility, if the senator was friendly with the POTUS.

My understanding from a number of services is each member of Congress is assigned a small team and one of their jobs is to review security at where they live. But I'll look into it further, it may be something from an older time that's stopped.

Ernest Bywater

I read an article a few years ago where one service the SS did for all the members of Congress was to conduct a security assessment of their regular residences, and to oversee the installation of security system at said residences. Also, when a threat against a specific member of congress was seen as a real and viable threat the SS provided direct security to them above the single person assigned to their office. But that was some years ago, and (like most of my research) is in the hands of the gestapo right now. The thrust of the article was about where the SS, like a lot of US government organisations, went beyond their legislated duties. I'll try to remember where I saw it. But I'll look into this and include it with the post posting revision of errors.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Ernest Bywater

OK, I've amended the master copy to deal with all the issues raised here - and the SS is handled by promoting Markham to one of the senior congress positions they also provide security for - noted in the revision to go up in a few weeks.

gmontgomery

I know you ended Pat's part of the tale. But, I see possibilities for a story dealing with his children. ;)

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@gmontgomery

Although I'm not ready to do any more on this, at this time, I've left it open to do more with Pat later - after all, he's only in his mid 20s.

Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

I read an article a few years ago where one service the SS did for all the members of Congress was to conduct a security assessment of their regular residences, and to oversee the installation of security system at said residences.

Given the current administration, I'm not overly surprised to hear of SS agents serving to protect (Republican) congressmen from minority protesters (probably with either billy clubs or bullets). :(

Replies:   Not_a_ID  Ernest Bywater
Not_a_ID

@Crumbly Writer

Given the current administration, I'm not overly surprised to hear of SS agents serving to protect (Republican) congressmen from minority protesters (probably with either billy clubs or bullets). :(


Only thing is the SS employed to protect the current Republican President is older than the more infamous SS you're making allusions to by some 50-ish years unless I'm mistaken.

While a humorous comparison in some ways, in this case, it probably is a coincidence.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Not_a_ID

While a humorous comparison in some ways, in this case, it probably is a coincidence.

I was poking fun at Ernest's cavalier use of "SS" to refer to the Secret Service, a shorthand abbreviation they'd Never use themselves, for obvious reasons!

Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

I was poking fun at Ernest's cavalier use of "SS" to refer to the Secret Service, a shorthand abbreviation they'd Never use themselves, for obvious reasons!


Of course they wouldn't use it themselves, the first rule of the Secret Service is you don't talk about the Secret Service. It's supposed to be a secret, it says so right in the name of the agency. :)

gmontgomery

@Crumbly Writer

Reminds me back in the early 70s when the Coast Guard amalgamated the Steward and Commisaryman rates into the Subsistence Specialist rate. Some bright light decided that "SS" would be the abbreviation for the rate. Today,it's Culinary Specialist (CS).

I was poking fun at Ernest's cavalier use of "SS" to refer to the Secret Service, a shorthand abbreviation they'd Never use themselves, for obvious reasons!

Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

I was going from an old report I read some years ago about some things certain US gov't agencies did beyond their requirements - however, checking what they do as part of their legislated duties they do protect a few specified senior members of both houses.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Ernest Bywater

however, checking what they do as part of their legislated duties they do protect a few specified senior members of both houses.


I'd have to check to be sure, but at first guess, probably the ones in the presidential succession list.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Dominions Son

I'd have to check to be sure, but at first guess, probably the ones in the presidential succession list.


definitely the senior member of each major party in each house, and positions like the speaker of the house etc.

I've amended the story to make the USSS (sounds like and angry snake with a lisp) involvement more realistic at that point.

imsly1

@Dominions Son

Unless you worked in the Obama Administration, then top Advisors like Valerie Jarrett and the Muslim Brotherhood got SS details...

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