Forum: Story Discussion and Feedback

In Joisey you might hear it "oudda."

In Joisey you might hear it "oudda."

I remember meeting a staff member when I took a new job in Arizona. Her name was Brenda. I wasn't new to Arizona but she told me I pronounced her name like Billy Joel (in the song "Scenes from an Italian Restaurant") where he pronounced Brenda in "Brenda and Eddie" as Brender.

So, yeah, I might think "outta" but say "oudda."

I believe 'outta' is a transliteration of a dialect version of 'out of'.

AJ

I believe 'outta' is a transliteration of a dialect version of 'out of'.

Contraction is probably the wrong word, but it's more of a contraction. Actually, a bastardization or slurring of words. Probably from speaking fast which is why I would have expected it more in NYC than the South.

Outta, gonna, wanna, whatcha, gotta, sorta, gotcha

ETA: Looking at the words that came to me, do all of these things end with an "a"?

When you think 'Southern', think more Alabama than Texas, Florida or Nevada, which are mostly white conservatives, while Alabama natives are mostly dirt-poor, raised under an apartheid system of subpar education and few opportunities.

Thus the 'Southern' utterances are more based on an enforced lack of education than an informed knowledge of established grammatical history.

The thing with 'melting pots' is that all those different elements tend to blend together, so one is largely the same or similar to all the others, rather than how each is treated/seasoned-to-taste by the cook.

Growing up in a military family, where we moved every two years, I was raised among many different linguistic communities, yet sought to speak with one voice (a northern one, where I believe the best opportunities lay), whereas my brother took the opposite tact, adapting rapidly to each place he lived, speaking fluidly like a native almost immediately.

Sadly, I think the rest of the family, including me, has influenced him more than his experiences have, since it's difficult moving away from when you built your career where your family lives.

but spelled 'oughta'.

"Outta" and "oughta" are different.

"Get out of here." (outta)

"You ought to go straight home." (oughta)

True, as indicated, it supposedly began as a 'Southernism', which was transplanted during the 'Great Southern Migration', six to seven decades ago. And now is actively reversing in places like Georgia, as the people raised in the north and deciding to return to the South, looking for better opportunities.

As always, the more things change, the more they remain the same.

Skies is another one I chuckle at. My radio instructor was a local weatherman on the News. He despised the word skies and would fail an assignment for using it. His words were "There is ONE sky, where you are on this planet it's the same sky".

"Sky" is singular and refers to the general atmosphere. "Skies" is the grammatically correct plural form, often used poetically or descriptively to emphasize the vastness of the heavens, varying weather, or different geographic regions.

I'm surprised a weatherman would object to "skies." They use it all the time.

Grammar Girl doesn't directly address "sky vs skies" but she references "skies" when discussing some weather-related discussions and idioms in her podcasts. Here are some:

General vs. Poetic: The singular sky is literal and general (e.g., "The sky is blue"). Skies is often used poetically or emotionally to make something sound bigger and more expressive (e.g., "Open skies," "Friendly skies").

Weather Variations: Skies commonly describes the current atmospheric conditions, moods, or appearances of a single sky (e.g., "We are expecting partly cloudy skies").

The Famous Saying: Grammar Girl extensively covered the weather folklore, "Red skies at night, sailor's delight. Red skies in the morning, sailor's warning," exploring how cloud refraction of red light actually does forecast weather.

And back to meteorologists:

Clear sky: Use this singular form when talking about the sky as a single, physical entity or when describing your current immediate view (e.g., "Look at that beautiful clear sky.").

Clear skies: Use this plural form when referring to general weather forecasts, changing conditions, or multiple nights (e.g., "The forecast calls for clear skies tomorrow"). Meteorologists and astronomers prefer this form.

"Red skies at night, sailor's delight. Red skies in the morning, sailor's warning,"

I was brought up with "Red sky at night, shepherd's delight..."

The UK's met Office uses the singular in that context, and that's Google's version too. Presumably each shepherd/sailor only has one sky to consider.

AJ

I was brought up with "Red sky at night,

According to Google's AI (which references the Library of Congress and Wikipedia), it is "sky" in the proverb which dates back over 2,000 years and is in the Bible. So you were taught right.

It's not based on the original text, which was clearly written by multiple individuals over time, and only dates back to the King James revision, as far as I know, as that was the definitive modern variant (the King James Version was were virtually ALL the metaphorical uses were first introduced, as following Shakespeare, as metaphors were only considered standard at that point).

Yeah, I'm also an etymology nerd.

And the original language was also written via a variety of different languages (Hebrew, Ancient Greek, Ancient Roman, and included revision after revision after revision, also in a wide variety of different languages, so there is no consistent historical usage pattern.

There's also the song 'Red Skies at Night', by The Fixx. When referencing that song, it must be 'Skies', even if you think the songwriters were incorrect.

There's also the song 'Red Skies at Night', by The Fixx.

"Blue Skies" written by Irving Berlin and sang by Al Jolson in "The Jazz Singer."

There's also the song 'Red Skies at Night', by The Fixx.

That came up most often in my Google search. Shows how the search engine is biased towards recent popular culture :-(

AJ

Just to add a smidgeon of logic to the discussion, the saying "red skies at night" is clearly discussing the total amount of red skits over an entire year, decade or century, so in that case, it makes sense. As far as using the term regularly, only a weather forecaster would waste anyone's time with such nonsense, as that's a professions usage exception, likely to get you punched if you use it among your non-weathermen friends. Just like when scientists insist on lecturing you on the difference between theory and theorem, when you clearly know the difference but just don't give-a-shit one way or the other. ;)

total amount of red skits

There are red kites where I live, and they're becoming a nuisance. The local council has issued a warning notice against feeding them.

AJ

Again, "dragged" vs. "drug" is more a revision from the British spelling (in American dictionaries) rather than the traditional American spelling. Why, I've never figured out.

But I definitely agree with you, as "dragged" definitely feels forced, as it's completely unnatural. "Drag" and "drug" are hard, active physical descriptions, which sound and feel like hard physical labor. Whereas "dragged" sounds more like "slogged", where it's more of a minor annoyance than a difficult physical act.

But then again, this is why they don't put this up for a public vote, as common usage rarely makes it into dictionaries, as languages continually changes, evolving to fit popular sentiment, not the dictates of academia.

As far as skies, I had to look it up, but "skies" is only used in weather forecasts to denote rapidly changing weather patterns, which seems pretty esoteric to me. So, unless you're a complete weather nerd, which I've always been, don't repeat such crap. ;) Though technically, there is one "atmosphere", whereas your sky is unique to your unique daylight savings time, which again, is not consistent across the globe, as some follow it, some don't and no one really agree on which takes precedence when.

It's just plain nutz!

And yeah, I hate those repetitions, yet authors get certain phrasings locked in their heads—I've found myself doing it fairly often, despite knowing better. Luckily, I use AutoCrit, which flags such repetitions, among with a host of other writing issues (flagging each adjective, adverb, each repetitive word or phrase as well as how often they're used, including flagging each usage so you can easily review each one.

It's an expensive tool, but for me it's worth it, but opt for the most expensive lifetime usage license, as overtime, it's cheaper than the exorbitant monthly fee.

But, don't be afraid to write, just find a willing volunteer editor to help clean up your work, as most can't spot their own typos, writers and editors both.