So, in my story "A Charmed Life," I referenced a Massachusetts State Law (MGL Chapter 278, Section 8a) which allows you to defend yourself against an intruder without allowing the commonwealth to come after you.
What do the laws in your state/country allow you to do, if anything?
The 'Castle Doctrine' is a part of English common law — "A Man's Home is his castle" (read about Semayne's case). This is the source of statutory law in the United States, which varies widely, state to state.
The idea goes back further, at least to the Roman Republic, and similar doctrines existed in China from at least the Han dynasty.
It is referred to as the Castle Doctrine. For more info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine
I'm somewhat familiar with the Castle Doctrine, especially the name, but I'm mainly interested in how far folks are allowed to go with this doctrine... I am curious how it varies from place to place...
If you go to the link I gave, it specifies the differences from state to state. It also gives some foreign coverage.
Oh, okay, thank you. (Sorry, I usually don't follow links because I tend to get lost in the link rabbit hole...)
It really does vary from state to state.
This is something I even touched on in one of my stories. In California, it barely exists. While the text of the law (PC 198.5) reads like you can use deadly force if you are in reasonable fear of your life, in reality people have been prosecuted over it if they did not attempt to retreat from a situation.
Then you can go to a state like Idaho. Where the prevailing standard is pretty much "so long as they die on your property you're good".
And even in a state, a lot of this is also decided by the local DA. If you are in Shasta or Butte counties in California (northern part of the state), having the DA decide to prosecute a homeowner if somebody breaks into their house and threaten them is far less likely than the same thing happening in Los Angeles or Alameda counties.
In those more rural counties, they will stick much closer to the original intent of the law. But in those other ones, they really will take into consideration if the homeowner had even a slight chance to escape instead or giving in so there was no violence involved.
"Well, you were not in imminent peril as you could have just run away. Or given them all your money."
Castle Doctrine does not apply in Canada. If someone breaks into your house, bangs your wife and shoots the dog, and you try to defend yourself, you'll go to jail and the criminal will walk. And we just re-elected the idiots that made that type of action a law. Can some state in America please adopt the Western provinces? We have oil.
While my grandfather (Grandpére) was French-Canadian, I'd rather not encourage the orange guy living in the malarial swamp that is Washington, DC.
I might be interested in a trade for Parliament Hill, but I can't see how that would benefit you...
One thing that I do know, is (in most jurisdictions) you can't make TRAPS to defend against intruders.
One thing that I do know, is (in most jurisdictions) you can't make TRAPS to defend against intruders.
Can you go to a gay bar and employ a few instead?.... 😛
Definition/clarification needed here.
You can indeed make traps, but they are not allowed to cause harm to the other individual.
A vestibule that locks somebody inside is perfectly legal, as no harm can come to anybody inside of one. The same with the kind of traps that trigger an alarm like a siren or lights.
But you are not allowed to set up a pit, punji sticks, or an improvised claymore mine. And setting up say a triple strand of concertina wire is allowed, so long as it is clearly visible.
Sorry, but the relatively recent "Stand your ground law" in the U.S., which states that you can shoot anyone who you 'feel' might portentially threaten you, is nothing more than a 'you can shoot any black or dark skinned person you want', which is perfectly in keeping with America's long-history with slavery and the subjugation of anyone who isn't an older white man!
It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with 'the Castle Doctrine' and pretending it does is itself a gross miscarriage of justice. But then, the U.S.A. has mostly gone feral at this point, with NO rule of law whatsoever.
The trick is to make sure you kill the other person where there are no cameras around.
Well, since I'm now disabled, I was (in my case) wondering about protecting myself and my family with a D-cell Maglite... (Remember those?)
Sorry, I got rid of all of those oversized flashlights once I bought my first 100 lumen digital flashlight. It's a fraction of the size, and you can illuminate nearly anything, and see clearly at much greater distances.
They're adjustable too, so you can either dim it, or even use a red-light filter (which doesn't travel nearly as far) when you want be largely unnoticed (i.e. doing something relatively illegal). Though I mostly use it when I walking along the street at night, so I don't wake the neighbors up with it, especially in a crowded, smaller city residential block.
No thank. As your 'point' was patently obvious enough. I was just raising a different point of view. You're not responsible for accepting it, it's simply an alternative, nothing else and nothing more. Take it or leave it.
No thank. As your 'point' was patently obvious enough. I was just raising a different point of view. You're not responsible for accepting it, it's simply an alternative, nothing else and nothing more. Take it or leave it.
The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.
I'd say it's obvious you missed the point with your response as it had zero to do with illumination (unless by 'illumination' you mean causing someone to realize the error of their ways by being clubbed with a heavy object).
Your response is akin to someone asking 'What do you want to eat?' and you respond 'I prefer black appliances.'
It's a fraction of the size, and you can illuminate nearly anything
Yes, but can you use it as a weapon (club)?
This is what you were replying to:
Well, since I'm now disabled, I was (in my case) wondering about protecting myself and my family with a D-cell Maglite... (Remember those?)
I guess the real question with the Maglite is, "Is the 2-cell enough, or should I get a bigger one?"
Well, I have a small one that does that, but I wouldn't be able to get to that at night...
The two cell version might be sufficient, but I think I would go with the three or four cell version.
Who wants the intruder to get too close, right? The 4-cell was only US$40 last I checked...
Who wants the intruder to get too close, right? The 4-cell was only US$40 last I checked...
I just checked Maglite's website.
The 4D maglite is listed for $59.99
https://maglite.com/collections/best-sellers/products/ml300l-4d-led-long-running-flashlight-box
Of course if you really want to maximize length, they have a 6D for $69.99
https://maglite.com/collections/best-sellers/products/ml300l-led-6-cell-d-flashlight
Check out Berna (sp?) They are a "pistol shaped" dispenser for several types of NON-leathal "munitions" similar to "pepper spray" but that are (currently) Legal in All 50 States, and all the Territories, and D.C.
I don't know about Canada or other nations.
Marketed to people who Don't want to (or can't legally possess firearms or OC "Pepper spray" etc.
https://byrna.com/
CO2 powered guns weren't legal in NJ last I knew. Someone from PA gave my dad a CO2 pellet gun to deal with squirrels in his backyard. He was told by a police officer friend it wasn't legal. He gave it to me to bring to AZ when I moved.
According to some searching, it's the pellet that matters. Metal pellets (BB gun, etc) are 'firearms' in NJ and one must comply with the same firearms regulations used for other weapons.
However, weapons that fire a plastic pellet are not 'firearms' and do not have to comply with the same regulations. Airsoft, paintball, etc weapons are fine.
All of Byrna's projectiles seem to be plastic, so they're fine.
Note that actually using the weapon to injure someone might well be a violation of the law. Likely not in self defense, though.
Some of Byrna's rounds say they cannot be shipped to various states, but NJ is not one of those states (on the pages I looked at, which is not all of them).
Actually the one in question can fire either metal or plastic pellets. As I understood it, from 40+ years ago, what made it illegal was the use of CO2 cylinders. I've used it in AZ with the plastic pellets on feral cats in my back yard. It didn't kill them, but after a few hits, they didn't come back. I first used a Hav-A-Hart trap, but the city pound wanted about $50 each to take them off my hands.
I guess the real question with the Maglite is, "Is the 2-cell enough, or should I get a bigger one?"
I myself prefer at least a 4 cell maglite but you would have to decide on your own as there is weight to take into account that might be a problem with your disability .
I guess the real question with the Maglite is, "Is the 2-cell enough, or should I get a bigger one?"
That depends on how proficient you are in hand to hand combat.
I used to carry a 2 AA cell on my belt at all times. And it can be a clear advantage in a fight because it makes for a great Kubotan if needed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubotan
Back in high school, I more than once had to use an oval shaped key ring as improvised "brass knuckles". Simply hold it so the keys stick out between the fingers, and the intent is obvious.
And no, even for all my military background I am very much a dedicated pacifist. But have learned that when confronted, most times simply showing you are armed (even with an improvised weapon) and willing to use it is enough to make the punks back off. Other than when attacked when doing security I can count the number of fights I have been in on one hand and have fingers left over.
Well, someone could take me down with a cross look these days, so I'd have to say that I'm not very proficient...
Obviously not, yet aside from using it as a cudgel, and cudgels have ALWAYS been better than flashlights anyway, as flashlights have a nasty habit of shattering when hitting blunt objects, I was merely pointing out that I haven't bothered with a heavy, inefficient flashlight in … ten or fifteen years?
Again, there are usually more efficient alternatives to virtually anything nowadays, if you search around for it enough.
So yes, you continue beating the crap out of whoever you want. Me, I have more productive actives I enjoy more. But hey, that's just me. As always, you do you (just warn me the next time you're in my neighborhood, so we can avoid each other on dark nights).
So yes, you continue beating the crap out of whoever you want.
The point was not about going on the offensive and beating the crap out of random people, but using it as a weapon for self-defense if (and only if) you are attacked.
In fact, the whole thread is about self-defense.
Obviously not, yet aside from using it as a cudgel, and cudgels have ALWAYS been better than flashlights
But unless you are a fisherman, or a truck or bus driver you would have a hard time explaining why you have a cudgel. Most states ban them unless you are a security guard with the appropriate license to carry one and are in uniform.
Sorry, finally seeing this...
I would have to get at least a Firearms ID card to carry that... No permit or license needed for the Maglites...
Well, since I'm now disabled, I was (in my case) wondering about protecting myself and my family with a D-cell Maglite... (Remember those?)
Well a 6 d-cell maglite is just as good as any ball bat but if you find yourself with a police security .410 Maglite (a.K.a CSG AOW .410 COMPANION) you can have your self a 3 d-cell and a single round .410 shotgun shell fired from the butt cap.
Though it isn't hard now to find USB recharge.able plastic maglites that will make you wish for any NERF gun instead.
Also it is worth changing out the incandescent bulb with the LED replacements as they don't blow out when dropped or accidentally hit against something.
Well, since I'm now disabled, I was (in my case) wondering about protecting myself and my family with a D-cell Maglite... (Remember those?)
Thinking about it, if you don't want or can't have a gun, another option to consider for something that isn't an obvious weapon is a tactical cane.
I've got those walking sticks (ski pole-type things), but they'd probably be too thin for self-defense...
I have no problems with firearms, but my state's government doesn't like them...
I've got those walking sticks (ski pole-type things), but they'd probably be too thin for self-defense.
Which is why I suggested considering a tactical cane. You can find canes out there explicitly made for self defense.
One of the walking sticks made from bamboo (solid, brutal) would work, but I don't know if I could keep my grip on one regularly...
But I'll look into a tactical cane...
I actually defended myself with one of those almost 20 years ago.
When I had a second job delivering pizza, I got one right away and always carried it in my car. And on one delivery I saw two kids hanging out across the street at 11 at night and the porch light where I was to make the delivery was off.
My "Spidy Sense" tingled, and for the first time ever I took the flashlight with me when I went to the door. They told me they did not order a pizza, and as I was returning to my car the kids attacked me with metal pipes.
The only reason I did not get beat is the large MagLight makes for a decent improvised club, so I was able to only get hit a couple of times. I was able to stand them off well enough that my yelling caused enough people to come see what was going on that they took off.
But I was also lucky, they were kids so did not really know how to fight or how much abuse the human body can take.
It would fix the problem either way! (I never got into D&D much, but my son plays it now...)
During my 15 years as an over the road truck driver, I carried a 3 cell MagLite in a belt loop when I got out of my truck anywhere that might be unsafe. It was effective on 2 occasions. Besides which I could light my way around dark truck stops.
Ten to fifteen years ago in Houston, Texas three druggies tried to kick in some 80 year old grandmothers front door one night. She was still watching the late news and heard them atthe door and grabbed her weapon. She started shooting when the door broke leaving two dead on her porch. One made it into the front yard before expiring. She was not charged and was later given a commendation by HPD.
CCW is quite common in Texas, yet not frightening. It's nice to know there are folks out there in public ready to fend off "black hats".
Replying to OP: In England and Wales, you are allowed to use 'reasonable force' to defend yourself against intruders. www.gov.uk/reasonable-force-against-intruders
While doing research on another issue, I found that some slingshot are illegal in certain states. The "wrist rocket" types or others that use an arm brace. Some countries also ban them, since various violent protesters use them for firebombs.
Yes, they are all definitely illegal in NJ. I remember Wham-O released them in the 50's and they didn't do their research and shipped them to NJ, and there were seizures all over the state. There have been several attempts to repeal the law.
I say I'd go with a pepperball gun, but those didn't work out so well for the Boston Police after the Red Sox beat the Yankees in the 2004 ALCS.
In the 70s I was a student security officer at my college. The Full-time officers were ex-cops. Most of them had Maglights with 3 C-cells. They also had an end cap that was a several ounce hunk of metal. They called them Bastard-beaters.
There used to be a source for steel end caps to replace the normal aluminum end cap. Much heavier!
There used to be a source for steel end caps to replace the normal aluminum end cap. Much heavier!
Any machinist can make a steel cap or a good hardware store will have endcaps in stock you just need to go threw the selection to fined your size.
The problem and major reason they are no longer easily bought on the market any more is when you mix the aluminum flashlight body to a steal endcap the metals react and corrode making it near impossible the remove the end cap. Also even if you are only defending yourself this change to the flashlight can bring you a world of legal problems.
Had mine for 20+ years, until it was stolen. I just used a little conductive grease on the threads every few months.
Had mine for 20+ years, until it was stolen. I just used a little conductive grease on the threads every few months.
Nice, but most people wouldn't bother with doing that simple little preventative maintenance let alone keep working batteries in it.
I have two, 2-cell MagLites in the house (1 upstairs, 1 downstairs) in case the power goes out.
As far as the batteries go, "change your clocks, change your batteries." I've never been a firefighter, but I've worked alongside them long enough for that to get drilled into my head…
If you are in NJ getting a concealed carry permit isn't hard anymore unless you have a history of psychiatric hospitalization, domestic violence or a criminal charge. Most police agencies, except in the larger cities, are happy to cooperate.
At least they sound more rational than Massachusetts. If I were in NJ, that would likely make me a Mets or Yankees fan. (Although, I suppose the Phillies could be an option.)
No, I'm a Red Sox fan, and my younger sister still to this day doesn't understand how close she came to death when she said, "It's only a game!" after the Sox blew Game 6 of the 1986 World Series...
Sorry, I thought from the earlier posts that you were in NJ.
As to the Red Sox, they are my favorite AL team - as a Mets fan we have a common dislike for the Yankees.
I remember 1986 well. I was on the phone congratulating a friend from up there on the Red Sox victory when suddenly things started changing for the better. He wasn't happy when the call ended.
I'm in AZ now, moved in '82. When I was first in NJ as a kid, I rooted for the Brooklyn Dodgers and whoever was playing the NY Yankees. I remember the "subway series" in '55 where they took the title. After '57, they moved to LA and I totally lost interest in them.
I have pictures of me as a toddler wearing a Brooklyn Dodgers cap. I still stayed a fan of them until the Mets came along and still root against the Yankees. As my Irish immigrant grandfather said "If you're Irish you have to be Catholic and a National League fan."
I didn't start off as a Dodgers fan. The first Major League ball game I went to was in 1954 at Forbes Field in Pittsburgh. Watched the Pirates play somebody. Later that year I got to see the Steelers, also at Forbes Field. The next year we moved to NJ.
Yeah, I was throwing stuff around the kitchen after that play...
A cousin and I were talking at another cousin's wedding. The first cousin grew up in NJ, and the wedding was just after that debacle.
"Hey, are you talking trash about my Yankees?"
"Max, it's 85 years of jealousy and frustration..."
He smiled at my response and shook hands. We're still in contact on FB...