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Dancing & Fires

NC-Retired 🚫

Massive communal fires. Chants. Percussion. Foot stomping in rhythm. Flutes. Rites. Ceremonies.

Why, why and why are these social elements missing from so many alternate history, extraordinary conditions needed to travel to a different dimension and/or a more primitive society sorta tales?

Many different discussion threads have touched on how authors can enhance their tales by describing the background, both physical descriptions and as the perceptions of their surrounding society from the main characters POV.

I'm perplexed as to why authors of alternate reality tales do not include these sorts of social interactions to enrich their imagined societies.

What are your thoughts or ideas?

Curious minds and all that…

Replies: CB garymrssn Grey Wolf Paladin_HGWT Paladin_HGWT

CB 🚫

@NC-Retired

My "Make the cut" future included a few beach raves. That count?

garymrssn 🚫

@NC-Retired

"The world is so full of a number of things, I'm sure we should all be as happy as kings."
Robert Louis Stevenson

However sometimes those things somehow fall through the cracks of life.

Your post reminded me of this verse which reminded me of the best author to take my mind away from the tribulations of old age. I'll have to reread Treasure Island to be sure. It may even have some of the fire, dancing or drums you are looking for.(But no sex) ;)
Now I'm off to do some real escapism.

Thank You

Gary

Grey Wolf 🚫

@NC-Retired

So far, I haven't gotten to a situation where most of those happen. On the other hand, church is 'rites and ceremonies' and there's a lot of church-going, if not described in a lot of detail. Concerts have chants and foot-stomping, and I've got a bit of that.

It's a good point, and - sooner or later - I'll probably get there.

I do have a large number of people marching around an enormous bonfire, then setting it ablaze, so maybe that counts?

Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@NC-Retired

Massive communal fires. Chants. Percussion. Foot stomping in rhythm. Flutes. Rites. Ceremonies.

Why, why and why are these social elements missing from so many alternate history, extraordinary conditions needed to travel to a different dimension and/or a more primitive society sorta tales?

Possibly there is an element of "White Guilt" because there has been a lot of criticism about White authors including such things in books and movies. Despite such activities being common in Celtic, Germanic, and Norse societies.

From high school in the 1980's, and more so in college/universities in the 1990's, and prominent post 2010 when I began taking courses again.

The last two movies I remember such scenes were Gladiator, and The 13th Warrior.

I believe I recall communal fires and dancing in several such stories; rituals in several more stories.

In my opinion, such scenes are rare because in most of the stories you are talking about, the writer depicts very few indigenous people. Rarely more than a family group, or a tribe of 50 people or less.

Most stories (on SoL) seem to be more "Man vs. Environment" or set in a later era, such as Rome, or the Middle Ages.

When I write, I often include bits about food and beverages, or the scenery.

Your suggestions have merit. Just a small scene or two, could add some depth to a story.

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫
Updated:

@Paladin_HGWT

@NC-Retired

Massive communal fires. Chants. Percussion. Foot stomping in rhythm. Flutes. Rites. Ceremonies.

Why, why and why are these social elements missing from so many alternate history, extraordinary conditions needed to travel to a different dimension and/or a more primitive society sorta tales?

Possibly there is an element of "White Guilt" because there has been a lot of criticism about White authors including such things in books and movies. Despite such activities being common in Celtic, Germanic, and Norse societies.

Another problem may be finding accurate information on chants, rites, and ceremonies for ancient religions, or even for indigenous peoples whose history prior to encountering Europeans is mostly or entirely oral.

Replies: solreader50

solreader50 🚫

@Dominions Son

for indigenous peoples whose history prior to encountering Europeans is mostly or entirely oral.

And oft times entirely fictional depending on what the good Jesuit brothers wanted us to hear.

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@solreader50

And oft times entirely fictional depending on what the good Jesuit brothers wanted us to hear.

You missed my point. A written record of the relevant practices is far more often simply non-existent.

Replies: Paladin_HGWT

Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@Dominions Son

Yup. There is a lack of historical records.

Or, as you mentioned, the information may be deliberately skewed. In the book about the Gauls by Gaius Julius Ceasar, he depicted the Gauls to be less civilized than they were.

Much of the 19th century writing about Celtics, and in particular "Druids" and "Witches" is more Fantasy than historical research!

Over the last few decades, in universities and writing, White people who depicted ceremonies, dancing, etc. Even of Celtics, Norse, or others, including Fictional peoples, may be accused of "cultural appropriation"...

In the series The Vikings, there were accusations that how some female characters wore their hair, and some of the jewelry and other adornments, was "cultural appropriation" despite historical artifacts, and "bog mummies" and other research that informed the fictional depictions.

Unfortunately, some Grifters (of various ethnic/racial backgrounds) Profit from making such accusations! Such drama leads to cautions ⚠️ at writers' conferences, and college courses. 🙄

I don't know if that has deterred any writers on SoL. I consider some of the crap that is part of writing courses (or history courses) I have taken. I would probably add ceremonies and other things that someone might accuse me of "cultural appropriation" but it is possible that I, and other writers might, even subconsciously, omit to avoid potential hassles.

Paladin_HGWT 🚫
Updated:

@NC-Retired

Not quite what you are talking about. However, in the movie Red Dawn, they had a "ceremony" drinking the fresh blood of a deer they had killed. It was more of a family tradition, but "based" upon (some nebulous) tribal traditions"... Teens in a perilous situation, to me it felt realistic. Similar to various "military traditions" (and hazing); activities that might have a historical basis; but are often Pseudo historical at best.

Various scenes in The Lord of the Flies, depict some of what you are suggesting. Albeit in a disturbing manner. But it is "modern" characters performing primitive ceremonies and such.

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Dancing & Fires

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