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Popular (but Wrong) Negative Stories

JoeBobMack 🚫

One will occasionally run across the claim that it is possible to learn about "the human condition" or some such by reading "literature." I've always doubted this, and more so as I've gotten older and, hopefully, gained more experience. We all suffer from a negativity bias - we notice, remember, and give importance to "negative" bits of information more to the positive. Anyway, I ran across an article that really brought this home. If you care to read, it tells the story of a "real life" Lord of the Flies situation that turned out the exact opposite of the hugely popular novel. Compare this to what happened after Katrina hit New Orleans in 2005 - LOTS of news stories about awful things happening as survivors brutalized each other, virtually none of which had any basis in fact. Do "negative" stories shape our minds, making us gullible in the face of a more positive reality?

Here's the story about The Real Life Lord of the Flies.

Quasirandom 🚫

@JoeBobMack

Yes, they do.

For the last thirty years, polls in the States have repeatedly shown that people believe crime rates are WAY higher than they actually are.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@Quasirandom

For the last thirty years, polls in the States have repeatedly shown that people believe crime rates are WAY higher than they actually are.

That's as much about news coverage as it is about negativity bias.

Every news outlet picks up and covers every significant crime story. Crimes that would have barely made the local paper 40 years ago are now being covered by national news outlets. It gives the appearance of crime being more common than it really is.

Replies:   Quasirandom
Quasirandom 🚫

@Dominions Son

That's as much about news coverage as it is about negativity bias.

More or less the same thing, in this case.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@Quasirandom

@Dominions Son

That's as much about news coverage as it is about negativity bias.

More or less the same thing, in this case.

I recall reading about studies that showed that people who primarily get news from TV think crime is much more prevalent than people who primarily get news from other sources.

maracorby 🚫

@JoeBobMack

I'm not sure that negative stories are really all that different from positive ones, though. We're told that sex is always amazing. The underdog can always prevail as long as he's pure of heart. If the girl turns you down, keep asking and eventually she'll be yours. If you put the bad person on the witness stand and ask clever questions, he'll inevitably incriminate himself.

I'm not sure this tells us anything more about the "human condition", but I think the wild exagerations go in both directions.

Replies:   JoeBobMack
JoeBobMack 🚫

@maracorby

but I think the wild exagerations go in both directions.

Yes, but are we as likely to treat the very positive stories as examples of the reality of human nature? It's a subtle thing, but do we respond to stories of human failing with "life's a lot like that; we could all learn from this" while treating stories that show "The Better Angels of Our Natures" as "just a nice story."

Moreover, is there a "push" somewhere in the writing/editing/publishing/reading/commenting process that nudges authors toward darker, more negative stories?

Pixy 🚫

@JoeBobMack

he'll inevitably incriminate himself

Unintended gender bias to go along with negative bias?

Replies:   JoeBobMack
JoeBobMack 🚫

@Pixy

he'll inevitably incriminate himself

Unintended gender bias to go along with negative bias?

Pixy, I'm not sure if you really meant that reply to go to me rather than to maracorby, but I'll answer the question.

Maybe. But insufficient data to form a conclusion. The English language still lacks a non-gendered third person pronoun, though the very awkward "they" is trying to make a comeback. In addition, since the overwhelming majority of persons committing violent crimes are male, a person using "he" to refer to a generic criminal might simply be reflecting that fact.

I appreciate that you fashioned your response as a question, not an accusation, although even questions in this area can feel like attacks.

Replies:   Pixy  GreyWolf
Pixy 🚫

@JoeBobMack

You are correct, it was supposed to be a reply to the quote of Maracorby, yet, somehow, it ended up where it ended up....

However, it was partly in reply to your OP regarding bias and was meant to have been an observation as to gender bias and bias that we all make unconsciously. (Not all black people are drug runners/gangsters, not all Scots are ginger, not all Welsh are sheep shaggers, etc, etc).

Whilst, yes, the majority of recorded violent crimes tend to be carried out by males, these are only reported crimes and that those committed by women are known to be and accepted to be, much higher than reported. For instance, in domestic abuse, it's believed that there is actually more male victims than female ones (where the abuser is of the opposite sex). That's in the UK however, it may be different in other countries.

I think the technical name for it is 'conformational bias', but you are correct that the usage of a gender neutral pronoun would be best, which was the point I was (badly) alluding to in the quote, by flagging the 'male' pronoun I was making a little 'dig' at the confirmation bias we all suffer from.

Replies:   JoeBobMack
JoeBobMack 🚫
Updated:

@Pixy

gender bias and bias that we all make unconsciously. (Not all black people are drug runners/gangsters, not all Scots are ginger, not all Welsh are sheep shaggers, etc, etc).

Pixy, what you wrote suggests an important but subtle point. Confirmation bias is not a "bias" in the way we often use the term. It is, instead, merely an unconscious process in our brains that gathers, interprets, and stores data to support what we believe.

This is extraordinarily powerful and, interestingly, it can be used to accomplish valuable social change. For example, in one study (and others of similar design have delivered similar results) women and men entering a very demanding Canadian engineering college were exposed to a very brief experience of watching videos of upper level students explain that the professors would challenge them in class because they wanted them to really learn the material, but that they would also be there to help them if the students would just ask. A control group received a different experience focused on managing stress. The group exposed to the belief --delivered by their slightly more experienced peers -- that challenging behaviors by professors were designed to help saw little difference in the performance of males, but females not only earned better grades, they also had better opinions of themselves as engineers and made more friends among the male members of the class (rather than making friends with those pursuing non-engineering studies).

That's huge! Think about the impact on the men who came out with women engineering friends! Basically, those women re-shaped their worlds, and, in fact our world, just because they were given a belief that let them interpret challenging behavior from professors as "this happens to everyone because they care" instead of "he's discriminating against me because I'm a woman." And then they went out into their careers with better views of themselves as engineers and more male engineer friends. What a difference those women are probably making in their professional lives! They're changing the world, and what started it was the seed of a productive belief implanted at the very beginning of their university experience on which their confirmation bias worked, day after day, gathering evidence to support that belief.

So: Confirmation bias is a process, not a belief. It supports the beliefs we hold; it does not determine those beliefs.

If anyone is interested in the study, here's a link to a copy.

ETA: I should add that my comments are NOT a claim that women in engineering, or other male-dominated fields, or in anything, for that matter, don't face anti-female beliefs and actions. I am suggesting that the way these women experienced their studies was altered by a productive belief (reinforced by the confirmation bias process in their brains) in ways that benefitted them and society in general, and probably would, over time, result in reduced sex-based discrimination.

Replies:   Pixy
Pixy 🚫

@JoeBobMack

πŸ‘

GreyWolf 🚫

@JoeBobMack

the very awkward "they" is trying to make a comeback

"They" has been used as a singular gender-neutral pronoun for a long time (the first known use is from 1375). There was a move to get rid of it in the eighteenth century - which partly succeeded - but that same movement wanted to get rid of 'you' as singular as well ('thou' being the singular version).

Most (but not all) modern style guides consider singular gender-neutral 'they' to be proper. I was taught it at schools that are by no minds wildly liberal over thirty years ago.

I think "they" has made its comeback. I really can't see what's awkward about it, honestly. Using "he" as gender-neutral is many times as awkward. We absolutely need a singular gender-neutral pronoun, and it makes far more sense to use one with over six hundred years of history than to set up new ones.

JoeBobMack 🚫

@GreyWolf

I really can't see what's awkward about it, honestly. Using "he" as gender-neutral is many times as awkward. We a1bsolutely need a singular gender-neutral pronoun, and it makes far more sense to use one with over six hundred years of history than to set up new ones.

100% agree on the need, and "they" may be the best choice. Thee most awkward uses I've seen have been in text where the sex of person referenced by the pronoun is known.

Oh, and it's not a singular 2nd person we need, it's a plural, and we have it -- "y'all"! < GRIN >

Replies:   Pixy  Dominions Son  GreyWolf
Pixy 🚫

@JoeBobMack

What's wrong with 'it' ;)

Replies:   JoeBobMack
JoeBobMack 🚫

@Pixy

Maybe for you, robot! ;)

Dominions Son 🚫

@JoeBobMack

Thee most awkward uses I've seen have been in text where the sex of person referenced by the pronoun is known.

It goes beyond awkward and is bordering on absurd when used to reference a named individual.

GreyWolf 🚫

@JoeBobMack

"Y'all" is perfectly appropriate and stylish :)

And awkward for quite a bit of the country, sadly.

I know a couple of people whose pronoun of choice is "they". I find it awkward as well, but it's their choice. I'd rather be awkward than insulting, so, there's that.

Replies:   JoeBobMack
JoeBobMack 🚫

@GreyWolf

But it's amazing how quickly damn yankees (see, I went to college!) can slip into it! It's like working remotely during the pandemic -- going back is hard!

Replies:   StarFleet Carl
StarFleet Carl 🚫

@JoeBobMack

damn yankees

I resemble that remark.

Replies:   JoeBobMack
JoeBobMack 🚫

@StarFleet Carl

That's okay. Some of my best friends... well, you know the rest!

Dominions Son 🚫

@GreyWolf

I think "they" has made its comeback. I really can't see what's awkward about it, honestly. Using "he" as gender-neutral is many times as awkward. We absolutely need a singular gender-neutral pronoun, and it makes far more sense to use one with over six hundred years of history than to set up new ones.

He as gender neutral has nearly as much history behind it as the singular they. And neither has ever achieved universal acceptance among English speakers/writers.

Replies:   Grey Wolf
Grey Wolf 🚫

@Dominions Son

But "he" is overall far more awkward, much of the time, since it forces a gender assumption that one must then undo.

Remus2 🚫

@JoeBobMack

There is news, then there is spin. For the latter, they take anything they can to spin news in support of their bias. They will also avoid reporting anything that challenges their particular flavor of bias.

In my opinion, there is very little actual news reported,
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/news

Definition of news

1a : a report of recent events gave her the good news
b : previously unknown information I've got news for you
c : something having a specified influence or effect the rain was good news for lawns and gardensβ€” Garrison Keillor the virus was bad news
2a : material reported in a newspaper or news periodical or on a newscast listened to the news on the radio
b : matter that is newsworthy The layoffs were big news in this part of the state.

red61544 🚫
Updated:

@JoeBobMack

Apropos to nothing: earlier this week during the first big storm of winter, a West Virginia TV station typically put their prettiest, youngest reporter outside in the middle of a white out! While on the air, she got hit by a car. The first thing she said was, "I'm not hurt. I'm alright!" Then the driver of the car came back and was very solicitous of the reporter's well-being.

Local stations have been rebroadcasting this story all week without including her statements about not being hurt nor the driver's caring words of remorse. My first question is, "Why the hell do TV stations force reporters outside to stand in the middle of hurricanes, snowstorms, and other natural disasters? Are they hoping for an incident like this?" Weather news can be reported from the comfort of the station rather than putting a young reporter's life at risk.

My second question is "What happened to the reporter's reassurances that she was okay and the driver's heartfelt concern about the reporter's welfare?" It totally disappeared from subsequent airings and, the more it was told, the more dramatic the telling.

My point is that the news is made on the cutting room floor. It is dramatized, rewritten to elicit the "Oh my God" response, and retold again and again to gain strong reactions from more and more people. That's true of all stories - crime stories, accidents, weather, and so on. Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear on TV. It's possible to tell any story and get it to say what you want others to hear.

Replies:   Remus2
Remus2 🚫

@red61544

"Why the hell do TV stations force reporters outside to stand in the middle of hurricanes, snowstorms, and other natural disasters? Are they hoping for an incident like this?"

I doubt they are being forced. It's more likely they volunteered. A lot of those idiots fancy themselves as "intrepid reporters."

Replies:   irvmull
irvmull 🚫

@Remus2

I doubt they are being forced. It's more likely they volunteered. A lot of those idiots fancy themselves as "intrepid reporters."

Yep. It's way safer than reporting from a war zone, and often gets their face on nationwide TV. Can't get that kind of exposure reporting local news.

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