Forum: Author Hangout

Writing software

CB 🚫

Question for the real authors.

Is there a software that when you write and use keywords like a characters name or a named location causes that word or name to pop up in a reference window?

What I'm looking for is a way to automatically reference each characters bio on a separate window as I write. A perfect example would be the glossary. As the writer types any matching word in the glossary heading it is displayed in the reference window.

I write in word as that is what I have. Shoot me if there is a feature like that already in word.

Thanks!

Replies: REP Mushroom irvmull Vincent Berg irvmull irvmull awnlee jawking irvmull rustyken irvmull irvmull amatlinux

REP 🚫
Updated:

@CB

I don't know if there is such a program.

However, if I wanted the functionality you described, I would create a Word document containing a bio for each character. I would then create a Word document for listing the characters and in the document, I would insert hyperlinks to the character docs with the name of the link being the character's name. CNTRL-click the hyperlink and the bio would be displayed.

Replies: Vincent Berg

Vincent Berg 🚫

@REP

However, if I wanted the functionality you described, I would create a Word document containing a bio for each character.

I'd thought this was a recent MS WORD feature, but given how no other Windows WORD user recognized it, it's got to be a more recent iteration of the MacOS/iOS/and/or iPad OS releases.

It's a damn handy feature, though I don't actually use if very often, as I typically rely on Google's best-guess feature in your browser's address bar. It's both either to use, AND you can follow the concepts as deep as you'd ever want (which I OFTEN do)!

Mushroom 🚫

@CB

I know there are some screenwriting tools like that. But those are designed for making scripts, and not stories or novels.

I myself have written a "Story Bible" for one series, to keep all the details straight. But in the one I am writing now, I just created a "Timeline" document, mostly because it takes up almost ten years after the last book ended, and I needed to make sure I kept track of names and birth years in it.

irvmull 🚫
Updated:

@CB

You could try this, but it seems awkward, and I don't know if it will do exactly what you want:

https://shaunakelly.com/word/layout/glossary.html

(Can't try it myself, because I don't use Windows)

Vincent Berg 🚫

@CB

Question for the real authors.

As opposed to all the writing quacks out there?

Is there a software that when you write and use keywords like a characters name or a named location causes that word or name to pop up in a reference window?

Both MS Word and Apple (?) both seem to offer this feature, in their more recent iterations, where if you < right click> the word , one of the options is "Look up ..." where it specifies the word it'll research for you, much like Alexa and Sire would do for you.

irvmull 🚫
Updated:

@CB

Yes, those will look up the definition, and maybe a map if the word is a location and you're online - but what he's asking for is something that will look up his own info on the character he is creating.

For example:

Goldy Lox and the Tree Bears

Clicking on Goldy would pop up a window showing Goldy's age, height, relationships, maybe a photo, etc that he's entered previously, and ideally allow additions to that pop-up info as the story takes shape.

Such a thing is not a daunting task for a programmer, and I implemented that sort of feature in a programmer's editor I wrote several years ago. Unfortunately, it is a programmer's editor, and totally unsuited for authoring stories.

Connecting the same functionality to an editor like MS Word or LibreOffice would be a much more difficult task.

Replies: Vincent Berg CB

Vincent Berg 🚫

@irvmull

Clicking on Goldy would pop up a window showing Goldy's age, height, relationships, etc that he's entered previously, and ideally allow additions to that pop-up info as the story takes shape.

Actually, there is a way of encoding that into your html and ePub files. It's been a while since I used it, but I believe the html command is Abbreviation tag '< abbr="test that displays when you hover over the word/phrase"/>'. It works well, but it's definitely a non-standard usage of the command.

More importantly, I doubt that SOL supports it, since SOL strips the vast majority of non-In-Line tags!

Sorry that I didn't answer sooner, but I didn't get that that was what they were looking for.

Replies: BlacKnight

BlacKnight 🚫

@Vincent Berg

This is:

a) not an effective way to accomplish what CB is asking for, as it requires the pop-up content to be entered manually each time rather than automatically referencing pre-established information, and doesn't allow the information to be formatted in any way beyond a stream of plain text, because you can't use HTML markup inside an HTML tag;

b) a misuse of the ABBR tag — if you want to have pop-up hovertext that isn't an expansion of an ABBReviation, use SPAN, which will work exactly the same way, but doesn't confuse software readers; and

c) the wrong syntax in any case.

Also using ABBR will by default cause every hovertext trigger to be underlined, which I bet you don't know how to turn off.

If you want to have tooltip-style pop-ups in your text (which has its uses; I use it for foreign language translations), the correct way to do it is:

[span title="pop-up text here"]pop-up trigger[/span]

Except replace the square brackets with angle brackets.

Or you can actually just add the title property to just about any HTML tag; SPAN is just a generic tag without defined meaning that gives you something to hang a title on that doesn't have any pre-existing function.

But, again, this does not in any way meet CB's actual need.

CB 🚫

@irvmull

You describe what I wish perfectly. Especially the ability to cross update a character's bio as I write more details into the story.

irvmull 🚫

@CB

Ideally, as you write your story, wherever a character is named, that name would automatically be a link to a pop-up character description. Not unlike a thesaurus, where clicking on a word gives a list of synonyms, etc.

The linking should be automatic, so as not to get in the way of the writer.

This would be a convenient reference for the writer, not intended for the readers.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@CB

I remember someone in my still dormant writers' group mentioning holding character descriptions in a separate facility so they could be pulled up for reference when writing. I thought they were using Scrivener, but none of the Scrivener users here have yet owned up so I'm probably wrong :-(

AJ

Replies: Dominions Son Vincent Berg JoeBobMack GreyWolf

Dominions Son 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I write in OO/LO and I've done something similar with an OO/LO Base database. I can store information on worlds, stories, locations, organizations, characters, households. Fields to store paths to background and other documents and forms with a fair bit of code behind the forms.

It's nothing that will pop up automatically in the main story file, but it's all there at my fingertips.

Vincent Berg 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I remember someone in my still dormant writers' group mentioning holding character descriptions in a separate facility so they could be pulled up for reference when writing. I thought they were using Scrivener, but none of the Scrivener users here have yet owned up so I'm probably wrong

That's to aid in the creation of stories (and is a good option for that), but it would have no impact on the finished product (i.e. SOL reader's wouldn't see any details about the character while reading).

If you want the former, most of us simply create our own character lists, though we all differ on what information we include (generally a LOT more than mere descriptions).

JoeBobMack 🚫

@awnlee jawking

AJ, just getting to this point and, yes, Scrivener has a facility to create character bios, including pictures, that are held in the "binder" that can be shown to the left of the work area. But, that's not exactly what the OP asks. You still have to go over to the binder and call up the character profile, although you can split the work are to keep it up as you work on a scene.

So, helpful, but not what was requested.

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@JoeBobMack

But, that's not exactly what the OP asks.

You're right, but it's possible it's a decent workaround using a commercially available product.

AJ

GreyWolf 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Scrivener user, and I don't use those tools. I'm not thrilled with the built-in character tools - but I'm not thrilled with any other ones that I've found thus far, either.

That's resulted in my notes being 'organized' in a collection of OneNote pages. I can find what I want, but it's miserable for e.g. producing a character list.

There are quite a lot of Scrivener features that I don't use, but I love the ones that I do use.

irvmull 🚫
Updated:

@CB

Something like this would probably help with mistakes like one I found last night - a character suddenly changes names from one paragraph to the next, then back again.

Kind of like a spell-checker highlights a word it doesn't "know", or a programmer's editor, which spell checks key words as well as warning about "undefined variables" i.e. made-up words the programmer used up but forgot to declare.

Replies: Vincent Berg

Vincent Berg 🚫

@irvmull

Something like this would probably help with mistakes like one I found last night - a character suddenly changes names from one paragraph to the next, then back again.

Again, a fairly common issue (usually when you accidentally refer to a prior protagonist, much like you might call your new girlfriend by your old girlfriend's name).

However, I doubt it would help (again, if we're discussing it being available to readers, rather than as a a story-creation software product), as typically you mistake names when you're typing too fast (i.e. not looking up characters you already know).

Replies: irvmull

irvmull 🚫

@Vincent Berg

A new character name should be flagged just like a misspelled word,thereby attracting the writer's attention.

However, proper names usually aren't tagged as misspelled - Steve isn't, steve is, for example.
So that presents a real problem for a programmer who wants to extend a normal word-processing program.

It would be a complex task, but not impossible.

Replies: Dominions Son LupusDei

Dominions Son 🚫

@irvmull

It would be a complex task, but not impossible.

Users requesting features from MS is fairly pointless.

On the other hand, LO has a decent pool of volunteer programmers. If you drop a feature request on them, someone might up a plug-in for it.

LupusDei 🚫

@irvmull

A new character name should be flagged just like a misspelled word,thereby attracting the writer's attention.

No, from programming standpoint, it likely would be the other way around. You create your character (location, law, pseudoscience, whatever) cards first, explicitly defining the active tag word(s) for each, and then when you encounter that while writing it would activate.

Replies: CB

CB 🚫

@LupusDei

Exactly. I envision it as simple as typing a new characters name in the story, flagging that as a character to be bio'd and then it created the entry in the glossary. Then, each time that name is typed into the story it is either a hot link that opens the glossary upon right-clicking or it opens it in a separate window.

It would be any term designated as significant or glossary worthy.

Replies: Keet

Keet 🚫

@CB

Exactly. I envision it as simple as typing a new characters name in the story, flagging that as a character to be bio'd and then it created the entry in the glossary. Then, each time that name is typed into the story it is either a hot link that opens the glossary upon right-clicking or it opens it in a separate window.

LupusDei has the right idea and the way to implement such a feature. What you don't want is to have to flag a character name in the text you are writing. You want every word you type checked against the tag words LupusDei mentioned without having to change your original story text. Compare it to the wavy line under misspelled words but instead of the wavy line an already open dialog window is updated with the bio of the character name under the cursor.
That can be done but I suppose it's not created before because only very few users would need it and achieve the same with alternatives. I can see a multitude of other uses for it though. It's also not easy. The dialog part is, but not the word detection. Misspelled words are only recognized after you put a space behind the word and you have to right click to get a dialog. For the requested feature a tagged word should be recognized the moment the cursor enters the word. I'm not sure how that can be done, I never tried creating a LibreOffice extension although most of the needed functions seem to be available. LO has a lot of events (programmed triggers) you can use but no in-text ones.

Replies: LupusDei

LupusDei 🚫
Updated:

@Keet

Whereabouts of the spellcheck or some kind of "as you type" replacements/hints is where this has to live.

Only if a spellcheck flags words it doesn't find in any of linked glossaries (and it never cases to amaze me how crazy it actually is) this would add a special "active glossary" that would inject links at words it recognizes, akin code editor that highlights keywords or, actually, just like an IDE that displays annotated information of known functions.

simple as typing a new characters name in the story, flagging that as a character to be bio'd and then it created the entry in the glossary.

Well, if it's simply a global right click dialogue option at any word, that's one thing, but if you're by chance envision assistant gimmick that basically goes "hey, this looks like a person name, do you want to create a character card?" all the time, it would need nontrivial context awareness (enough to be touted as AI feature) and even so would become annoying quickly, both by false positives and not triggering when you actually might want it. In either case it's the next level above the basic function of the "active glossary".

Replies: LupusDei Keet

LupusDei 🚫

@LupusDei

... and then they would want that interactive dialogue to be a docked wiki viewer that calculates her actual age in the scene context from timeline annotations in the chapter/scene three...

Keet 🚫

@LupusDei

Well, if it's simply a global right click dialogue option at any word, that's one thing, but if you're by chance envision assistant gimmick that basically goes "hey, this looks like a person name, do you want to create a character card?" all the time, it would need nontrivial context awareness (enough to be touted as AI feature) and even so would become annoying quickly, both by false positives and not triggering when you actually might want it. In either case it's the next level above the basic function of the "active glossary".

If I had to design this I would approach this differently:
Required result: A seperate dialog or dockable pane that displays information about a character when a defined keyword for that character is under the cursor in the text.

Create an event when the user activates/displayes the extra window that fires every time the cursor moves.
The event calls a macro/function that:
- Gets the word under the cursor and checks if it's different from the previous checked word
- If the word is different, execute a macro/function that checks a user-defined data table for the existence of that keyword.
- If found, find the chracter datarecord connected to the keyword and display it in the dialog/window (if the found character is different from the already displayed character).
Delete the event when the user closes the extra window.

Basically it shouldn't be too difficult for someone who has created extensions before and is familiar with event handling. It largely depends on what development functions LibreOffice or MS Word offers to make it possible. Can you define an event on cursor movement? Can you get the word under the cursor? Can you detect if a custom dialog is displayed? Can you create a custom dialog/pane at all?
I know it's possible to define and use custom data sources so that part shouldn't be a problem.

There are all kinds of refinements and nice to have extra's I can think of. That includes you're timeline suggestion although that would require the author to set a data field with a point on that time line. I think it would be essential that you can edit the character data in the extra window, not just displaying it.

And then start thinking beyond just character/biography data. Think locations, relations between characters, specific events that link to something much later in the story, etc. etc.

On the other hand, I think this is more something that software like scrivener should implement, not you're every day word processor.

rustyken 🚫

@CB

When I was writing a story that grew into 4 volumes, I used separate spreadsheets to track characters, time, location descriptions, & etc. Not sure this could be built into a single program.

irvmull 🚫
Updated:

@CB

Wonder if Continuity people who work in movies and TV have such software?

After all, they have a multitude of piddling details to keep track of, like how the star was dressed, how his hair was combed, how much coffee was left in his cup, how much of the hotdog he had consumed when the director threw a hissy fit and shut down the previous day's filming.

irvmull 🚫

@CB

OpenOffice/LibreOffice thesaurus feature comes closest to what is wanted, if you could write your own custom thesaurus and add to it on the fly.

amatlinux 🚫

@CB

You might want to check author software like writerscafe.uk.co or yWriter7 or scrivener.

Forum: Author Hangout

Writing software

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