Forum: Author Hangout

By the way, what the heck is "prehend"? Is that Latvian, English or something else?

https://www.wordreference.com/definition/-prehend-

-prehend-, root.

-prehend- comes from Latin, where it has the meaning "seize;
grasp hold of;
hold on to.'' This meaning is found in such words as: apprehend, comprehend, misapprehend, prehensile. See -pris-.

'-prehend-' also found in these entries (note: many are not synonyms or translations):
apprehend - comprehend - self-comprehending

@Vincent Berg

By the way, what the heck is "prehend"? Is that Latvian, English or something else?

https://www.wordreference.com/definition/-prehend-

-prehend-, root.

-prehend- comes from Latin, where it has the meaning "seize;
grasp hold of;
hold on to.'' This meaning is found in such words as: apprehend, comprehend, misapprehend, prehensile. See -pris-.

'-prehend-' also found in these entries (note: many are not synonyms or translations):
apprehend - comprehend - self-comprehending

Huh. Learn something new every day.

OED says "To seize, arrest, grasp; to apprehend mentally. Now rare."

You may consider "Show some decency!"

This would be a very informal event, so a formal or scripted response wouldn't fit,

Exactly the opposite, I'm seeking the most formal and scripted expression applicable.

The three guys in the instance are by chance a boy everyone else believes just had sex with said girl (they didn't quite, but close enough), her father and his grandfather. It is the boy who calls the two older guys to order defending decency of his date (whatever little may be left), using language he might expect (but evidently isn't receiving) from his grandfather. Then, if one believes the interpretation that it's an ancient wizard reborn in the boy's skin, he might be the oldest of the three, by a lot. I would love to use this moment to that end too, but it's not important.

OED says "To seize, arrest, grasp; to apprehend mentally. Now rare."

Rare might even be what I was after, the meaning fits well enough, and I like the pompous touch of it reverting to Latin, even the possible pun with "pretend" is inciting, but if it's indeed outside what a casual reader could discern naturally it might be overboard.

I arrived at that by pure analogy out of "comprehend":

saprast = to understand/comprehend;

prast = to have skill/knowledge;

proti = you have skill/knowledge (also often used similar to the parasitic "see" in, say "see, they do things that way" or similar instruction or explanation)

proties = apply your skills on yourself, "behave yourself" might even be the exclusive use actually, I can't think other uses of that particular form of the word readily, and it's used on it's own as minor reprimand like on a child struggling with utensils at a table.

But in Latvian it's a case of rarely used form of very common root, while as I understand in English there's not really a habit of casual wordmaking, thus the regression from "comprehend" doesn't work as I hoped.

You may consider "Show some decency!"

I may. It loses the archaic formulaic expression but is natural language and fills the function. Or maybe in combination?

"Prehend honor guys, show some decency, let her dress."

That's triple redundancy but perhaps fits the moment with him being defensive while hyped up and thus talkative.

ETA:

Actually, even if he has to explain himself, (perhaps indeed called on said pun with "pretend"?), while unnatural and impossible to render back to native, would fill the gap while she throws her little dress on and come up to them nicely, as the next scene in order is him derailing the father from tearing onto the daughter right away when she does.

Rare might even be what I was after, the meaning fits well enough, and I like the pompous touch of it reverting to Latin, even the possible pun with "pretend" is inciting, but if it's indeed outside what a casual reader could discern naturally it might be overboard.

The risk would be readers assuming it's a typographic error and that pretend was what was intended.

Gentlemen, respect her dignity.

This would turn it from a request, to a reminder that this is what "Gentlemen" should do - almost a reprimand.

Yes, request and reprimand is what I seek. While her dad might be contemplating shotgun wedding, the lad jumps opportunity to attack him on leering at his own daughter, for entertainment of the grandpa (it's all kind of instant girlfriend situation), both men are proud peasants by constitution, but actual farm owners (even though the girl's dad visits to do paid work for grandpa) so I would cringe less on "Gentlemen" here than otherwise, and it actually works for effect.

(I've never come across "prehend" either so I've learnt something new, too.)

Duh. Apparently I chiefly reinvented the word. That's partly why I'm asking.

The setting is definitely not English speaking. I use 2023 calendar for Sun and Moon rise and setting, the solar day in June is 18 hours so that's plot relevant at times. It's post-Soviet north Europe, supposedly Latvian countryside, even rather discernable location, but fictionalized and I try to be vague and inflict micro-geographic changes. Then I project some aspects of 1990-ies society onto today, and then infuse sprinkle of magic, drawing very liberally from the actual folk beliefs still sometimes honored. That works as the here and now, and is very recognizable for me, the authenticity acceptable not for exaggeration, but perhaps effectively alien to most people, even my real contemporaries. Even if perhaps slightly alternate, but somewhere mostly outside the story scope the world you might recognize supposedly exists. That effect is deliberate.

I plan to repeatedly break the fourth wall reminding the narrator is translating the whole thing, and routinely over-translating things. Like house names are definitely translated, and village names, and even surnames when used at all (I wanted to avoid use of any entirely, but gave up on that).

I plan to make him literally contemplate inline in narrative should nearby village be called Arkshed or Chestbarn or should he search for old-English words to convey the effect of the name that wouldn't readily have any discernible meaning to his contemporaries as both of the worlds combined in it are archaic and not in the current lexicon.

Supposedly sixteen for plot purposes narrator seemingly is a walking encyclopedia of folk beliefs. At least one of the girls believe he's a witcher. He believes she's a witch, but repeatedly claim he don't believe in magic in principle. Winter time in city he's probably also a computer hacker (he compare magic to programming), but that has no bearing to the plot, as for the three months of summer his primary interest is to watch naked girls live in person, with splitting firewood as his idle function. There's absolutely no pretense of him being ordinary.

The setting is definitely not English speaking. … It's post-Soviet north Europe, supposedly Latvian countryside, even rather discernible location, but fictionalized and I try to be vague and inflict micro-geographic changes.

In that case, forget everything I said, as the extra Latvian details will only enrich the story. In that case, it's just a matter of how you introduce new, unfamiliar terms.

But please, not that you've raised the question, let us know how you decide to play it, as now you've make us all curious! ;)

Okay, I'm finally feeling done with this for now, It started as out of order written detour pegged as possible chapter 56 in what I was talking about here, but since becoming more of a derivative work possibly as I'm not sure anymore how usable it will be in initial role when more of that emerge.

Yes, I'm probably looking for beta readers and/or editor.

The mindfuck in question sits at 15k words, with a working title "playing with fire" as that what the girl has for a name.

Uguns = fire, its a word that sounds like from times humans just learned to speak, Uh-gun-ss and the first throaty U can be dropped for poetic purposes, 'guns, then making feminine form thst we get girl's name Guna (Gun-Ah), also as short from Gundega (fire-that-burned, degt = to burn).

The relevant snippet is going to be longish too, and still won't capture the situation fully, but hopefully will make at least a little sense.

I had long lost my audience, Greg stood hypnotized by the sight of his daughter swimming naked and me talking nonsense. Guna threw another upwards glance, her lips tightly squeezed. From the distance it almost looked like a little smile, almost.

I finally went down to her, grabbing her discarded dress on the way, and dropped it on the other bench. Then I climbed down from the jetty on the stone steps in the water one up from where she had stood earlier, and opened the linen cloth wide in my outstretched hands.

She knew what I intended, floated down and swam to me, and I catched the mermaid mid-jump in my net. She lifted her hands high, and I wrapped the cloth around her body tightly, too tightly, she protested by body language without losing her smile or looking away from my eyes. So I rewrap her, with better success. Or maybe a little loose, but she put an elbow down, hand over covered breasts, and I climbed out backwards leading her as in a dance.

"You're okay?" I asked quietly

"No! They're still watching. Are all men really such creeps?"

"Absolutely! Never believe anybody who claims otherwise."

"Like you."

"Really? I'm the biggest baddest funkiest creepy creep of them all, and you knew it."

"But earlier you--"

"I just let you believe whatever you wanted. And actually confessed. There," I pointed to the other bench with her dress on it, "we will be under the jasmine, mostly."

"No Johnny, I can't do this. No more. Get them away. And sorry I got my hair wet."

"Huh?"

"You brushed it out so nicely!"

The girl was trembling and probably close to tears even if still with a smile frozen on her face.

"It's still your hair! Get wet whenever you like!"

"Oh I am," She giggled little suppressed giggles, hopefully on the way out of her hole. Or, indeed, her father definitely shouldn't see her cum on this.

"And sorry for using you for the decor."

"What?"

I was already on my way up.

"Prehend honor!" I issued an archaic reprimand, it boomed. "Gentleman, respect her dignity. Really, let her dress, guys" I continued in gradually falling tones.

I went past them and they turned to follow. Greg actually blushed. Hopefully not in anger, but if so, he suppressed it well. Being chastised by a teen probably wasn't anything usual for him. Then he chortled.

"Pretend? You're what, that honest, or what?"

"Duh. Prehend, as in comprehend, apprehend. Grasp, seize, engage your skills."

"Isn't it still, pretend," he smirked.

"It is if you have to." I had to chuckle after that.

My grandfather chuckled quietly too.

Once that formula had required immediate desist and apology for the actions it had been called on, today it had acted more as a joke. Well, it was also so long past due in the situation, it became ridiculous indeed. Anyways, we were facing away and moving forth from the distraught girl, anything else was unimportant.

"I love that red currant." I pointed at two bushes at the inner yard fence, just to build some distance.

If I hadn't needed to explain the phrase, or got from you all something that felt comfortable as a close substitute: both earthly peasant speak, formal reprimand and still relatively modern language, the scene would be quieter and shorter, as it just works outright:

I was already on my way up.

"Prehend honor!" I hissed at the men, "let her dress."

Greg actually blushed. Hopefully not in anger, but if so, he suppressed it well. Being chastised by a teen probably wasn't anything usual for him.

I went past them and they turned to follow. "I love that red currant." I pointed at two bushes at the inner yard fence, just to build some distance.

prehend

"Prehensile Feet: People With Feet Similar to Monkeys
Posted on October 4, 2016 by Doctor Vikki
prehensile-feet
Despite the way our species evolved away from climbing trees to walking on flat ground, some people are still walking around with monkey-like feet. In fact, you may be surprised to learn that about eight percent of the population, or 1 in 13 humans, may have a midtarsal break in their foot characteristic of non-human primates. These are also referred to as prehensile feet.

What is a Midtarsal Break?
The midtarsal break is a medial shift in the center of the pressure trajectory with dorsiflexion of the midtarsal joint (the joint between the talus and the navicular bone as well as the joint between the calcaneus and the cuboid bone), occurring during the gait of an unstable foot, when the body transfers weight from rearfoot to forefoot.

A midtarsal break, also known as floppy feet, tend to occur in people with flatter feet and higher body mass indexes than people with stiffer feet. They also tend to roll their feet more, causing a motion called hyperpronation (they land on the outside of their feet and roll dramatically inward). This allows for the foot to relax its joints and ligaments, creating a midtarsal break.

What are Prehensile Feet?
Prehensile feet are lower limbs that possess prehensility (the ability to grasp like a hand). They are most commonly observed in monkeys. Due to the development of bipedalism in humans, the hands became the focus of prehensility and the feet adjusted to more of a stabilizing role. It may be possible, however, that the foot does not reach its limits of dexterity due to the constant muscle tension needed in stabilizing and balancing the foot to hold up the legs and the rest of the frame.

People with prehensile feet can grasp small objects between their toes, manipulating them as with a hand with the ankle functioning like the wrist. As toes are much shorter than fingers, and since the ball of the foot is so large and obtrusive, grasping does not function as in a normal hand and the foot is not able to hold very large or heavy objects.

Chimpanzee Feet vs. Human Feet
Conventional wisdom has always claimed that the human mid-foot is rigid, which allows for more efficient walking while chimpanzees and other apes have flexible feet better suited to grasping branches as they move through the trees.

Human feet are both rigid and pliable depending on the need. The human foot is a spring arch that should be able to drop and lift with every step. Human legs angle in from the hip to the knee, allowing our feet to fall directly under the pelvis and our pelvic muscles are much stronger, as well, allowing for a stable upright environment.

Chimpanzees are often referred to as knuckle-walkers because they only walk on two legs for short distances due to the differences of our legs and spine. Chimpanzees can't straighten their legs like humans and they don't have a lumbar curve, which makes weight bearing and walking more difficult. Chimpanzee legs are also set wide apart and weak pelvic muscles force their whole body to transfer weight from side to side during each step.

Yet, while chimp feet and bodies can't do what humans can, it doesn't appear to be a problem if our feet work like chimpanzee feet. In fact, two studies (one from Boston University and the other from Dartmouth) have proven that about eight percent of the population have the mobility of chimpanzee feet, which allows some societies to functionally adapt their feet and calf muscles to allow them to climb trees like chimps do.

While eight percent of the population exhibits a flexible midtarsal break in their feet, people with midtarsal break rarely realize that they have one, as it doesn't affect their gait.

The Walking Test
So how do you know if your feet might have a midtarsal break? Take a stroll on sand. Here are a couple of tips:

If you have high arches, you probably have stiff muscles and ligaments, which means that you don't have a midtarsal break.
If you have a midtarsal break, the fold in your foot will pinch the sand upward. Look for a small ridge in the upper-mid portion of your footprint.
Talk to Dr. Vikki and Dr. Connie
If you have any questions or concerns about whether or not you have prehensile feet with a midtarsal break, and if there are any unique factors you have to account for regarding your foot health, feel free to book an appointment with Dr. Vikki and Dr. Connie today."

Neanderthal jeans

I thought they mostly wore loincloths...

Neanderthal jeans

Neanderthals named Gene.

prehend

"Prehensile Feet: People With Feet Similar to Monkeys
Posted on October 4, 2016 by Doctor Vikki
prehensile-feet
Despite the way our species evolved away from climbing trees to walking on flat ground, some people are still walking around with monkey-like feet. In fact, you may be surprised to learn that about eight percent of the population, or 1 in 13 humans, may have a midtarsal break in their foot characteristic of non-human primates. These are also referred to as prehensile feet.

What is a Midtarsal Break?
The midtarsal break is a medial shift in the center of the pressure trajectory with dorsiflexion of the midtarsal joint (the joint between the talus and the navicular bone as well as the joint between the calcaneus and the cuboid bone), occurring during the gait of an unstable foot, when the body transfers weight from rearfoot to forefoot.

A midtarsal break, also known as floppy feet, tend to occur in people with flatter feet and higher body mass indexes than people with stiffer feet. They also tend to roll their feet more, causing a motion called hyperpronation (they land on the outside of their feet and roll dramatically inward). This allows for the foot to relax its joints and ligaments, creating a midtarsal break.

What are Prehensile Feet?
Prehensile feet are lower limbs that possess prehensility (the ability to grasp like a hand). They are most commonly observed in monkeys. Due to the development of bipedalism in humans, the hands became the focus of prehensility and the feet adjusted to more of a stabilizing role. It may be possible, however, that the foot does not reach its limits of dexterity due to the constant muscle tension needed in stabilizing and balancing the foot to hold up the legs and the rest of the frame.

People with prehensile feet can grasp small objects between their toes, manipulating them as with a hand with the ankle functioning like the wrist. As toes are much shorter than fingers, and since the ball of the foot is so large and obtrusive, grasping does not function as in a normal hand and the foot is not able to hold very large or heavy objects.

Chimpanzee Feet vs. Human Feet
Conventional wisdom has always claimed that the human mid-foot is rigid, which allows for more efficient walking while chimpanzees and other apes have flexible feet better suited to grasping branches as they move through the trees.

Human feet are both rigid and pliable depending on the need. The human foot is a spring arch that should be able to drop and lift with every step. Human legs angle in from the hip to the knee, allowing our feet to fall directly under the pelvis and our pelvic muscles are much stronger, as well, allowing for a stable upright environment.

Chimpanzees are often referred to as knuckle-walkers because they only walk on two legs for short distances due to the differences of our legs and spine. Chimpanzees can't straighten their legs like humans and they don't have a lumbar curve, which makes weight bearing and walking more difficult. Chimpanzee legs are also set wide apart and weak pelvic muscles force their whole body to transfer weight from side to side during each step.

Yet, while chimp feet and bodies can't do what humans can, it doesn't appear to be a problem if our feet work like chimpanzee feet. In fact, two studies (one from Boston University and the other from Dartmouth) have proven that about eight percent of the population have the mobility of chimpanzee feet, which allows some societies to functionally adapt their feet and calf muscles to allow them to climb trees like chimps do.

While eight percent of the population exhibits a flexible midtarsal break in their feet, people with midtarsal break rarely realize that they have one, as it doesn't affect their gait.

The Walking Test
So how do you know if your feet might have a midtarsal break? Take a stroll on sand. Here are a couple of tips:

If you have high arches, you probably have stiff muscles and ligaments, which means that you don't have a midtarsal break.
If you have a midtarsal break, the fold in your foot will pinch the sand upward. Look for a small ridge in the upper-mid portion of your footprint.
Talk to Dr. Vikki and Dr. Connie
If you have any questions or concerns about whether or not you have prehensile feet with a midtarsal break, and if there are any unique factors you have to account for regarding your foot health, feel free to book an appointment with Dr. Vikki and Dr. Connie today."

Gee, three people working with two different translators translating the same text before they debate how to implement the legislations, what could possibly go wrong there?

A lot of people are unaware that the USSR used Latvia as the location for storage and management of their technical standards. One of the reasons for this was the peculiarities with the Latvian language. They would regularly translate from Latvian to Russian or other languages of the Soviet States when one of the standards was required.
I worked a project in late 91 where we synchronized their standards to western standards. Particularly British National Standards which in turn went on to be folded into ISO/EU standards. Soviet 300 series stainless steel for instance did not align with the western versions in terms of quantity of nickel or chromium. Soviet versions were heavy on nickel. Which made them closer to 400 series than a 300. The USSR had more nickel and titanium available than the west by far, so things like that were to be expected.

Point of all that is our translators were Latvian national polyglots. Even they sometimes struggled on some of the terms. Which was why people like me were brought in. It was up to us to determine what the standard was equal to in the west. Many times their discussions got rather heated.
So if the Latvian nationals had trouble agreeing, outsiders were simply screwed.

I don't see how that could help as cultural references is literally what I'm writing about not trying to strip out, but seek to render.

And as to Russian specifically...

If I didn't know better I might take such suggestion for an insult. Russian is by no means neutral language in the context, but a slang spoken by a band of robbers led astray by a Estonia born Swede drunk who had a red hair and that's why they're calling themselves Rusty's men to this day.

(I refer to this guy who people of New City (Novgorod) had to recruit for a king when their democracy failed.)

Whatever history they may have had was destroyed by John the terrible (okay, Ivan, but that translates) a deranged killer and bookburner who wore Quran quotes on his crown.

Then they had illiterate Lithuania born Polish maid of a German pastor taken as slut by soldiers invading Latvia then under Sweden's king's rule, gifted to Peter as plaything spy, for an Empress, as a remarkable change to the better.

They have never forgiven perceived insult of just how our guy defeated Napoleon by giving up Moscow, but still had to have a Latvian named Crazy German (Jukums Vācietis) for the first marshal of USSR. It was under his oversight when Guderian worked on Blitzkrieg strategy in the Russian training grounds. And since Lenin's bodyguards were Latvians, the rumors that first KGB meetings were held in Latvian for convenience and security might well be true.

A lot of people are unaware that the USSR used Latvia as the location for storage and management of their technical standards. One of the reasons for this was the peculiarities with the Latvian language.

I wasn't either. But without research into it I might bet that it's more out the aforementioned chronical inability to run their own country than directly language related, as overall Russian was very heavily pushed in any technical fields as only language of trade.

I wasn't either. But without research into it I might bet that it's more out the aforementioned chronical inability to run their own country than directly language related, as overall Russian was very heavily pushed in any technical fields as only language of trade.

As it was explained to me, the Kremlin/ruling party of the time was very paranoid. They went to extreme lengths to prevent any one member state to have access to all technical knowledge. The Latvian language was utilized as another layer of security as most of the other member states had few if any Latvian speakers. You would be in a better position to verify that than I would.