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Impossible translations

LupusDei 🚫

It's no secret I'm Latvian. That's a funky little language deemed obscenely close to Indoeuropean tree base trunk with 300 to 800 analytical forms of a verb (nobody knows for sure) strongly dual gender applied to adjectives and habit to overuse diminutive (we have three different ways to make those for any noun).

I don't speak English at all (I would routinely try to vocalize English graphemes using Latvian phonemes, and Latvian adopted Latin alphabet through German influences in a strictly phonetically written way) but I can, more or less write, despite failing formal English classes four separate times.

Now why I'm seeking to write what starting to look like a million words stroke story set in a slightly fantastical version of my home environment, among other possible projects of similarly obscene nature, using English as the medium is probably too weird to try explaining so I won't, but that's what I'm at.

I could endlessly bitch about apparent inability to construct arbitrary diminutives or contemplate how to render the myriad uses of single word meaning daughter/maid/unmarried-woman including (archaic) informal address of any woman significantly younger or subordinate to the speaker, or how unpacking all the wealth implied in our verb forms blow a handful syllable grunt into seven word sentence completely changing dialogue structure, but those are more or less obvious dead ends.

What I rather may try to explore here might be idioms and similar abnormalities where dictionaries obviously are of no help, but desire of close representation remains, or depending on response maybe some word usage questions.

I will try not to flood this space but keep it to rather rare occasions, and make the Latvian parts confusing enough no one be at risk to accidentally learn much of it.

LupusDei 🚫
Updated:

@LupusDei

"Prehend honor!"

Above is best I so far could invent to represent at least part of Latvian "Proties godu!" with is a shout a vigilante would utter seeking to correct indecent behavior in progress. Unpacked from notions it becomes something like:

"use/engage on oneself your learned/acquired skills of honor/decency/fairness!"

Immediate corrective action is required and if it happens the incident is resolved without further escalation even if it was a thieves hand caught in gentleman's pocket. Apologies are expected but not hold as mandatory. Use cases include observing indecent exposure, drunk or disorderly behavior, misdemeanors including small thievery in progress and similar.

What I'm stuck on right now is something alike this:

Three blokes stare at a naked girl holding towel to her breasts with one hand and bundle of her clothes in other. One of them might say "puiői, protās godu!" ~ "guys, prehend honor!" And all three would turn around and go a few steps away to let her dress.

Yes, that's quite a bit inherently old fashioned both in expression and behavior, and expectations.

Is there something similar/usable in English, or how similar situation/expectations might be handled?

Vincent Berg 🚫

@LupusDei

One of them might say "puiői, protās godu!" ~ "guys, prehend honor!"

The simplest is "Guys, watch it" or "Guys, behave yourselves!"

This would be a very informal event, so a formal or scripted response wouldn't fit, thus the casual 'Cool it, Fellas!' approach works better. Essentially, the guys got caught oogling the girl, know their guilty, and are conceding just how bad it looks and mutually agree to back up.

By the way, what the heck is "prehend"? Is that Latvian, English or something else?

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@Vincent Berg

By the way, what the heck is "prehend"? Is that Latvian, English or something else?

https://www.wordreference.com/definition/-prehend-

-prehend-, root.

-prehend- comes from Latin, where it has the meaning "seize;
grasp hold of;
hold on to.'' This meaning is found in such words as: apprehend, comprehend, misapprehend, prehensile. See -pris-.

'-prehend-' also found in these entries (note: many are not synonyms or translations):
apprehend - comprehend - self-comprehending

Replies:   samuelmichaels
samuelmichaels 🚫

@Dominions Son

@Vincent Berg

By the way, what the heck is "prehend"? Is that Latvian, English or something else?

https://www.wordreference.com/definition/-prehend-

-prehend-, root.

-prehend- comes from Latin, where it has the meaning "seize;
grasp hold of;
hold on to.'' This meaning is found in such words as: apprehend, comprehend, misapprehend, prehensile. See -pris-.

'-prehend-' also found in these entries (note: many are not synonyms or translations):
apprehend - comprehend - self-comprehending

Huh. Learn something new every day.

OED says "To seize, arrest, grasp; to apprehend mentally. Now rare."

You may consider "Show some decency!"

Replies:   LupusDei  Vincent Berg
LupusDei 🚫
Updated:

@samuelmichaels

This would be a very informal event, so a formal or scripted response wouldn't fit,

Exactly the opposite, I'm seeking the most formal and scripted expression applicable.

The three guys in the instance are by chance a boy everyone else believes just had sex with said girl (they didn't quite, but close enough), her father and his grandfather. It is the boy who calls the two older guys to order defending decency of his date (whatever little may be left), using language he might expect (but evidently isn't receiving) from his grandfather. Then, if one believes the interpretation that it's an ancient wizard reborn in the boy's skin, he might be the oldest of the three, by a lot. I would love to use this moment to that end too, but it's not important.

OED says "To seize, arrest, grasp; to apprehend mentally. Now rare."

Rare might even be what I was after, the meaning fits well enough, and I like the pompous touch of it reverting to Latin, even the possible pun with "pretend" is inciting, but if it's indeed outside what a casual reader could discern naturally it might be overboard.

I arrived at that by pure analogy out of "comprehend":

saprast = to understand/comprehend;

prast = to have skill/knowledge;

proti = you have skill/knowledge (also often used similar to the parasitic "see" in, say "see, they do things that way" or similar instruction or explanation)

proties = apply your skills on yourself, "behave yourself" might even be the exclusive use actually, I can't think other uses of that particular form of the word readily, and it's used on it's own as minor reprimand like on a child struggling with utensils at a table.

But in Latvian it's a case of rarely used form of very common root, while as I understand in English there's not really a habit of casual wordmaking, thus the regression from "comprehend" doesn't work as I hoped.

You may consider "Show some decency!"

I may. It loses the archaic formulaic expression but is natural language and fills the function. Or maybe in combination?

"Prehend honor guys, show some decency, let her dress."

That's triple redundancy but perhaps fits the moment with him being defensive while hyped up and thus talkative.

ETA:

Actually, even if he has to explain himself, (perhaps indeed called on said pun with "pretend"?), while unnatural and impossible to render back to native, would fill the gap while she throws her little dress on and come up to them nicely, as the next scene in order is him derailing the father from tearing onto the daughter right away when she does.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@LupusDei

Rare might even be what I was after, the meaning fits well enough, and I like the pompous touch of it reverting to Latin, even the possible pun with "pretend" is inciting, but if it's indeed outside what a casual reader could discern naturally it might be overboard.

The risk would be readers assuming it's a typographic error and that pretend was what was intended.

Vincent Berg 🚫

@samuelmichaels

You may consider "Show some decency!"

Alas, that usage is generally relegated to any 'responsible' adults observing the behavior, which is generally limited, at best, for obvious reasons. However, it's not the sort of thing one guy would tell his friends after being caught, or even one friend would use to chastise his friends for their audacity. It's a little too formal for those uses. (IMHO)

Exactly the opposite, I'm seeking the most formal and scripted expression applicable.

The three guys in the instance are by chance a boy everyone else believes just had sex with said girl (they didn't quite, but close enough), her father and his grandfather. It is the boy who calls the two older guys to order defending decency of his date (whatever little may be left), using language he might expect (but evidently isn't receiving) from his grandfather.

I'd still be reluctant to use it, at least within an English (i.e. either an American or British based story), because it's simply not how the different generations express themselves (i.e. there's less 'borrowing' of one's elder's expressions, at least since the 60's).

While the guy might get angry enough to fight them over it, he'd be unlikely to revert to the language of his father (again, in a strictly American or British setting, since most teens post-pubescent wouldn't want to be associated with those mindsets). It would be akin to "Unhand her, you miscreant!", which would be widely recognized, but rarely used other than in jest.

If you do use the term, you'd best document what it means via dialogue, as I'm better very few readers will have the slightest clue what it means (especially if we authors haven't a clue either).

Although, if you use Ernest's approach, as cast your protagonist as a foreigner to this (whichever you choose), that would easily work, as those nearby would immediately press him about wtf he was ranting about, and he'd have a natural explanation for using the term. But I wouldn't put the phases in the mouth of a native-born teen or young adult. But that just my personal opinion.

Ernest has been using that particular motif for some time (for his teen dramas, at least), and they play very well, given the 'foreigner in a new land' pretext.

BarBar 🚫
Updated:

@LupusDei

Another option could be:

Please show some respect (or) Please respect her dignity.

I think either of these are closer to the idea of behaving with honor.

Alternately,

Gentlemen, show some respect. (or) Gentlemen, respect her dignity.

This would turn it from a request, to a reminder that this is what "Gentlemen" should do - almost a reprimand.

More of UK type of thing - not sure how well it translates to USA. In the UK, being a "Gentleman" equates fairly well to what I understand you to be saying about showing honor.

(I've never come across "prehend" either so I've learnt something new, too.)

LupusDei 🚫
Updated:

@BarBar

Gentlemen, respect her dignity.

This would turn it from a request, to a reminder that this is what "Gentlemen" should do - almost a reprimand.

Yes, request and reprimand is what I seek. While her dad might be contemplating shotgun wedding, the lad jumps opportunity to attack him on leering at his own daughter, for entertainment of the grandpa (it's all kind of instant girlfriend situation), both men are proud peasants by constitution, but actual farm owners (even though the girl's dad visits to do paid work for grandpa) so I would cringe less on "Gentlemen" here than otherwise, and it actually works for effect.

(I've never come across "prehend" either so I've learnt something new, too.)

Duh. Apparently I chiefly reinvented the word. That's partly why I'm asking.

Replies:   Vincent Berg
Vincent Berg 🚫

@LupusDei

both men are proud peasants by constitution, but actual farm owners (even though the girl's dad visits to do paid work for grandpa) so I would cringe less on "Gentlemen" here than otherwise, and it actually works for effect.

Ahh, that's where the 'disconnect' originates. There are very few 'peasants' left in American culture, and while there are plenty of poor communities, the widespread use of media means that virtually everyone is cognizant of current trends, so there's little relevancy to 'old-world' ways of one's foreparents (there's another word you don't come across anymore).

We (collective 'we' again) have plenty of farm communities, which tend to fiercely defend their traditions, but those mostly veer towards conservative/Republican positions, rather than outdated notions of civility. But once again, by projecting that attitude on a recent immigrant, especially in a school setting, would give you a great deal more latitude to explore/play with the concepts than you could dealing with a purely native-born motif/cast.

In short, it's not a bad theme to explore, but it'll need to be set in the proper setting to see 'authentic', as it's pretty foreign to more 1st and 2nd world English speakers. Using it with an Indian expat (someone who'd relocated with their parents from India) would also be a natural fit, as the Indian culture is much more reverential of the 'old ways' than modern American or European trends.

But please, not that you've raised the question, let us know how you decide to play it, as now you've make us all curious! ;)

Replies:   LupusDei  LupusDei
LupusDei 🚫
Updated:

@Vincent Berg

The setting is definitely not English speaking. I use 2023 calendar for Sun and Moon rise and setting, the solar day in June is 18 hours so that's plot relevant at times. It's post-Soviet north Europe, supposedly Latvian countryside, even rather discernable location, but fictionalized and I try to be vague and inflict micro-geographic changes. Then I project some aspects of 1990-ies society onto today, and then infuse sprinkle of magic, drawing very liberally from the actual folk beliefs still sometimes honored. That works as the here and now, and is very recognizable for me, the authenticity acceptable not for exaggeration, but perhaps effectively alien to most people, even my real contemporaries. Even if perhaps slightly alternate, but somewhere mostly outside the story scope the world you might recognize supposedly exists. That effect is deliberate.

I plan to repeatedly break the fourth wall reminding the narrator is translating the whole thing, and routinely over-translating things. Like house names are definitely translated, and village names, and even surnames when used at all (I wanted to avoid use of any entirely, but gave up on that).

I plan to make him literally contemplate inline in narrative should nearby village be called Arkshed or Chestbarn or should he search for old-English words to convey the effect of the name that wouldn't readily have any discernible meaning to his contemporaries as both of the worlds combined in it are archaic and not in the current lexicon.

Supposedly sixteen for plot purposes narrator seemingly is a walking encyclopedia of folk beliefs. At least one of the girls believe he's a witcher. He believes she's a witch, but repeatedly claim he don't believe in magic in principle. Winter time in city he's probably also a computer hacker (he compare magic to programming), but that has no bearing to the plot, as for the three months of summer his primary interest is to watch naked girls live in person, with splitting firewood as his idle function. There's absolutely no pretense of him being ordinary.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer 🚫

@LupusDei

The setting is definitely not English speaking. … It's post-Soviet north Europe, supposedly Latvian countryside, even rather discernible location, but fictionalized and I try to be vague and inflict micro-geographic changes.

In that case, forget everything I said, as the extra Latvian details will only enrich the story. In that case, it's just a matter of how you introduce new, unfamiliar terms.

LupusDei 🚫
Updated:

@Vincent Berg

But please, not that you've raised the question, let us know how you decide to play it, as now you've make us all curious! ;)

Okay, I'm finally feeling done with this for now, It started as out of order written detour pegged as possible chapter 56 in what I was talking about here, but since becoming more of a derivative work possibly as I'm not sure anymore how usable it will be in initial role when more of that emerge.

Yes, I'm probably looking for beta readers and/or editor.

The mindfuck in question sits at 15k words, with a working title "playing with fire" as that what the girl has for a name.

Uguns = fire, its a word that sounds like from times humans just learned to speak, Uh-gun-ss and the first throaty U can be dropped for poetic purposes, 'guns, then making feminine form thst we get girl's name Guna (Gun-Ah), also as short from Gundega (fire-that-burned, degt = to burn).

The relevant snippet is going to be longish too, and still won't capture the situation fully, but hopefully will make at least a little sense.

I had long lost my audience, Greg stood hypnotized by the sight of his daughter swimming naked and me talking nonsense. Guna threw another upwards glance, her lips tightly squeezed. From the distance it almost looked like a little smile, almost.

I finally went down to her, grabbing her discarded dress on the way, and dropped it on the other bench. Then I climbed down from the jetty on the stone steps in the water one up from where she had stood earlier, and opened the linen cloth wide in my outstretched hands.

She knew what I intended, floated down and swam to me, and I catched the mermaid mid-jump in my net. She lifted her hands high, and I wrapped the cloth around her body tightly, too tightly, she protested by body language without losing her smile or looking away from my eyes. So I rewrap her, with better success. Or maybe a little loose, but she put an elbow down, hand over covered breasts, and I climbed out backwards leading her as in a dance.

"You're okay?" I asked quietly

"No! They're still watching. Are all men really such creeps?"

"Absolutely! Never believe anybody who claims otherwise."

"Like you."

"Really? I'm the biggest baddest funkiest creepy creep of them all, and you knew it."

"But earlier you--"

"I just let you believe whatever you wanted. And actually confessed. There," I pointed to the other bench with her dress on it, "we will be under the jasmine, mostly."

"No Johnny, I can't do this. No more. Get them away. And sorry I got my hair wet."

"Huh?"

"You brushed it out so nicely!"

The girl was trembling and probably close to tears even if still with a smile frozen on her face.

"It's still your hair! Get wet whenever you like!"

"Oh I am," She giggled little suppressed giggles, hopefully on the way out of her hole. Or, indeed, her father definitely shouldn't see her cum on this.

"And sorry for using you for the decor."

"What?"

I was already on my way up.

"Prehend honor!" I issued an archaic reprimand, it boomed. "Gentleman, respect her dignity. Really, let her dress, guys" I continued in gradually falling tones.

I went past them and they turned to follow. Greg actually blushed. Hopefully not in anger, but if so, he suppressed it well. Being chastised by a teen probably wasn't anything usual for him. Then he chortled.

"Pretend? You're what, that honest, or what?"

"Duh. Prehend, as in comprehend, apprehend. Grasp, seize, engage your skills."

"Isn't it still, pretend," he smirked.

"It is if you have to." I had to chuckle after that.

My grandfather chuckled quietly too.

Once that formula had required immediate desist and apology for the actions it had been called on, today it had acted more as a joke. Well, it was also so long past due in the situation, it became ridiculous indeed. Anyways, we were facing away and moving forth from the distraught girl, anything else was unimportant.

"I love that red currant." I pointed at two bushes at the inner yard fence, just to build some distance.

Replies:   LupusDei
LupusDei 🚫
Updated:

@LupusDei

If I hadn't needed to explain the phrase, or got from you all something that felt comfortable as a close substitute: both earthly peasant speak, formal reprimand and still relatively modern language, the scene would be quieter and shorter, as it just works outright:

I was already on my way up.

"Prehend honor!" I hissed at the men, "let her dress."

Greg actually blushed. Hopefully not in anger, but if so, he suppressed it well. Being chastised by a teen probably wasn't anything usual for him.

I went past them and they turned to follow. "I love that red currant." I pointed at two bushes at the inner yard fence, just to build some distance.

Vincent Berg 🚫

@BarBar

Please show some respect (or) Please respect her dignity.

I think either of these are closer to the idea of behaving with honor.

I concur, that should work, though I'm not convinced your more formal "respect her dignity" would float for very long before crashing to the ground.

richardshagrin 🚫

@BarBar

prehend

"Prehensile Feet: People With Feet Similar to Monkeys
Posted on October 4, 2016 by Doctor Vikki
prehensile-feet
Despite the way our species evolved away from climbing trees to walking on flat ground, some people are still walking around with monkey-like feet. In fact, you may be surprised to learn that about eight percent of the population, or 1 in 13 humans, may have a midtarsal break in their foot characteristic of non-human primates. These are also referred to as prehensile feet.

What is a Midtarsal Break?
The midtarsal break is a medial shift in the center of the pressure trajectory with dorsiflexion of the midtarsal joint (the joint between the talus and the navicular bone as well as the joint between the calcaneus and the cuboid bone), occurring during the gait of an unstable foot, when the body transfers weight from rearfoot to forefoot.

A midtarsal break, also known as floppy feet, tend to occur in people with flatter feet and higher body mass indexes than people with stiffer feet. They also tend to roll their feet more, causing a motion called hyperpronation (they land on the outside of their feet and roll dramatically inward). This allows for the foot to relax its joints and ligaments, creating a midtarsal break.

What are Prehensile Feet?
Prehensile feet are lower limbs that possess prehensility (the ability to grasp like a hand). They are most commonly observed in monkeys. Due to the development of bipedalism in humans, the hands became the focus of prehensility and the feet adjusted to more of a stabilizing role. It may be possible, however, that the foot does not reach its limits of dexterity due to the constant muscle tension needed in stabilizing and balancing the foot to hold up the legs and the rest of the frame.

People with prehensile feet can grasp small objects between their toes, manipulating them as with a hand with the ankle functioning like the wrist. As toes are much shorter than fingers, and since the ball of the foot is so large and obtrusive, grasping does not function as in a normal hand and the foot is not able to hold very large or heavy objects.

Chimpanzee Feet vs. Human Feet
Conventional wisdom has always claimed that the human mid-foot is rigid, which allows for more efficient walking while chimpanzees and other apes have flexible feet better suited to grasping branches as they move through the trees.

Human feet are both rigid and pliable depending on the need. The human foot is a spring arch that should be able to drop and lift with every step. Human legs angle in from the hip to the knee, allowing our feet to fall directly under the pelvis and our pelvic muscles are much stronger, as well, allowing for a stable upright environment.

Chimpanzees are often referred to as knuckle-walkers because they only walk on two legs for short distances due to the differences of our legs and spine. Chimpanzees can't straighten their legs like humans and they don't have a lumbar curve, which makes weight bearing and walking more difficult. Chimpanzee legs are also set wide apart and weak pelvic muscles force their whole body to transfer weight from side to side during each step.

Yet, while chimp feet and bodies can't do what humans can, it doesn't appear to be a problem if our feet work like chimpanzee feet. In fact, two studies (one from Boston University and the other from Dartmouth) have proven that about eight percent of the population have the mobility of chimpanzee feet, which allows some societies to functionally adapt their feet and calf muscles to allow them to climb trees like chimps do.

While eight percent of the population exhibits a flexible midtarsal break in their feet, people with midtarsal break rarely realize that they have one, as it doesn't affect their gait.

The Walking Test
So how do you know if your feet might have a midtarsal break? Take a stroll on sand. Here are a couple of tips:

If you have high arches, you probably have stiff muscles and ligaments, which means that you don't have a midtarsal break.
If you have a midtarsal break, the fold in your foot will pinch the sand upward. Look for a small ridge in the upper-mid portion of your footprint.
Talk to Dr. Vikki and Dr. Connie
If you have any questions or concerns about whether or not you have prehensile feet with a midtarsal break, and if there are any unique factors you have to account for regarding your foot health, feel free to book an appointment with Dr. Vikki and Dr. Connie today."

Replies:   Vincent Berg
Vincent Berg 🚫

@richardshagrin

The midtarsal break is a medial shift in the center of the pressure trajectory with dorsiflexion of the midtarsal joint

Thanks. Not only did you teach me several new things, I now suspect (just like everyone who looks up unknown conditions) think I may have some variant of this. I've never been able to run normally, as my feet simply don't 'roll' the the ball to the toes like it does in most runners, and I've always wondered why. I'll need to do some research, and consider seeing a specialist in the area, to see whether they have any treatments for it, or at least learn what other conditions may be associated with it.

But the frequency isn't that unusual, as that's relatively close to the number of individuals with specific Neanderthal jeans (back when humans and Neanderthal were still mixing their jeans between the furs). It may not be Neanderthal, but the left-over jean mechanism works across a lot of alternating-generation traits.

But, while I'm fine walking on sand (no sand pockets mid-arch though), I'm a terrible runner, but have always been a natural tree climber, quickly scaling both tall trees, ladders and chimneys. Maybe those traits are related? That is, I was until my heart started acting up and I lose my balance (I've always had severe dizzy spells too, but that's related to my neuropathy of the autonomic nervous system, which I developed late in life, although the dizziness resulting from it I had since I was 13).

Replies:   samuelmichaels
samuelmichaels 🚫

@Vincent Berg

Neanderthal jeans

I thought they mostly wore loincloths...

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin 🚫

@samuelmichaels

Neanderthal jeans

Neanderthals named Gene.

richardshagrin 🚫

@BarBar

prehend

"Prehensile Feet: People With Feet Similar to Monkeys
Posted on October 4, 2016 by Doctor Vikki
prehensile-feet
Despite the way our species evolved away from climbing trees to walking on flat ground, some people are still walking around with monkey-like feet. In fact, you may be surprised to learn that about eight percent of the population, or 1 in 13 humans, may have a midtarsal break in their foot characteristic of non-human primates. These are also referred to as prehensile feet.

What is a Midtarsal Break?
The midtarsal break is a medial shift in the center of the pressure trajectory with dorsiflexion of the midtarsal joint (the joint between the talus and the navicular bone as well as the joint between the calcaneus and the cuboid bone), occurring during the gait of an unstable foot, when the body transfers weight from rearfoot to forefoot.

A midtarsal break, also known as floppy feet, tend to occur in people with flatter feet and higher body mass indexes than people with stiffer feet. They also tend to roll their feet more, causing a motion called hyperpronation (they land on the outside of their feet and roll dramatically inward). This allows for the foot to relax its joints and ligaments, creating a midtarsal break.

What are Prehensile Feet?
Prehensile feet are lower limbs that possess prehensility (the ability to grasp like a hand). They are most commonly observed in monkeys. Due to the development of bipedalism in humans, the hands became the focus of prehensility and the feet adjusted to more of a stabilizing role. It may be possible, however, that the foot does not reach its limits of dexterity due to the constant muscle tension needed in stabilizing and balancing the foot to hold up the legs and the rest of the frame.

People with prehensile feet can grasp small objects between their toes, manipulating them as with a hand with the ankle functioning like the wrist. As toes are much shorter than fingers, and since the ball of the foot is so large and obtrusive, grasping does not function as in a normal hand and the foot is not able to hold very large or heavy objects.

Chimpanzee Feet vs. Human Feet
Conventional wisdom has always claimed that the human mid-foot is rigid, which allows for more efficient walking while chimpanzees and other apes have flexible feet better suited to grasping branches as they move through the trees.

Human feet are both rigid and pliable depending on the need. The human foot is a spring arch that should be able to drop and lift with every step. Human legs angle in from the hip to the knee, allowing our feet to fall directly under the pelvis and our pelvic muscles are much stronger, as well, allowing for a stable upright environment.

Chimpanzees are often referred to as knuckle-walkers because they only walk on two legs for short distances due to the differences of our legs and spine. Chimpanzees can't straighten their legs like humans and they don't have a lumbar curve, which makes weight bearing and walking more difficult. Chimpanzee legs are also set wide apart and weak pelvic muscles force their whole body to transfer weight from side to side during each step.

Yet, while chimp feet and bodies can't do what humans can, it doesn't appear to be a problem if our feet work like chimpanzee feet. In fact, two studies (one from Boston University and the other from Dartmouth) have proven that about eight percent of the population have the mobility of chimpanzee feet, which allows some societies to functionally adapt their feet and calf muscles to allow them to climb trees like chimps do.

While eight percent of the population exhibits a flexible midtarsal break in their feet, people with midtarsal break rarely realize that they have one, as it doesn't affect their gait.

The Walking Test
So how do you know if your feet might have a midtarsal break? Take a stroll on sand. Here are a couple of tips:

If you have high arches, you probably have stiff muscles and ligaments, which means that you don't have a midtarsal break.
If you have a midtarsal break, the fold in your foot will pinch the sand upward. Look for a small ridge in the upper-mid portion of your footprint.
Talk to Dr. Vikki and Dr. Connie
If you have any questions or concerns about whether or not you have prehensile feet with a midtarsal break, and if there are any unique factors you have to account for regarding your foot health, feel free to book an appointment with Dr. Vikki and Dr. Connie today."

Mushroom 🚫

@LupusDei

Translating between languages can be tricky, as much of a language goes beyond just the words themselves.

A lot is also cultural, and that can make a translation tricky. Especially the farther away from each other two languages are.

For example, in many languages, the informal word used for an orgasm is not "come", but "goes" (or a variant like "going"). So when a translation is literal, the meaning is completely lost.

In the last year I have actually been watching a lot of subtitles Japanese porn, and it can be strange when the translation is literal. Like use of "comfortable" where we would say that the sex feels good. And that before an orgasm, one saying they feel "cheap", which I still do not fully understand.

It is probably best to not try fot a literal translation, but instead try to translate and iterate into the language used the sense of what is intended, and not the actual words used. Japanese once again is full of that. From the famous Mokusatsu speech (which translates to "kill with silence", but means "ignore"), to a Prime Minister telling a former US President that they would "think about" enacting trade limitations (which in the Japanese culture "think about it" is really a polite refusal, not a possible agreement as in American culture).

That is why in places like the UN, translators normally work through yet another language (like Esperanto), without out such cultural references. The Russian Ambassador speaks in Russian, his translator translates that to Esperanto. The US translator then takes that and converts it to English for their Ambassador.

And both translators are careful to try and strip out all cultural ambiguity that could cloud the messages.

Vincent Berg 🚫

@Mushroom

That is why in places like the UN, translators normally work through yet another language (like Esperanto), without out such cultural references. The Russian Ambassador speaks in Russian, his translator translates that to Esperanto. The US translator then takes that and converts it to English for their Ambassador.

Gee, three people working with two different translators translating the same text before they debate how to implement the legislations, what could possibly go wrong there?

Replies:   Mushroom  Remus2
Mushroom 🚫

@Vincent Berg

Gee, three people working with two different translators translating the same text before they debate how to implement the legislations, what could possibly go wrong there?

Which is why it is done that way, to remove all cultural inflections. And since Esperanto is an artificial language, it has none of those built into it.

The same with the "Hot Line" between the US and Soviets/Russia. The US sends in Russian, Russia sends in English. SO the text is clear and without any influence when possible from their own language.

Remus2 🚫

@Vincent Berg

Gee, three people working with two different translators translating the same text before they debate how to implement the legislations, what could possibly go wrong there?

A lot of people are unaware that the USSR used Latvia as the location for storage and management of their technical standards. One of the reasons for this was the peculiarities with the Latvian language. They would regularly translate from Latvian to Russian or other languages of the Soviet States when one of the standards was required.
I worked a project in late 91 where we synchronized their standards to western standards. Particularly British National Standards which in turn went on to be folded into ISO/EU standards. Soviet 300 series stainless steel for instance did not align with the western versions in terms of quantity of nickel or chromium. Soviet versions were heavy on nickel. Which made them closer to 400 series than a 300. The USSR had more nickel and titanium available than the west by far, so things like that were to be expected.

Point of all that is our translators were Latvian national polyglots. Even they sometimes struggled on some of the terms. Which was why people like me were brought in. It was up to us to determine what the standard was equal to in the west. Many times their discussions got rather heated.
So if the Latvian nationals had trouble agreeing, outsiders were simply screwed.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Mushroom

That is why in places like the UN, translators normally work through yet another language (like Esperanto), without out such cultural references. The Russian Ambassador speaks in Russian, his translator translates that to Esperanto.

That claim is not supported by internet sources, for example.

There are mentions of Esperanto in connection with the UN - it seems that the official record of speeches may be translated into Esperanto after the fact, but that comes from low quality sites like Quora.

AJ

Replies:   Mushroom
Mushroom 🚫

@awnlee jawking

There are mentions of Esperanto in connection with the UN - it seems that the official record of speeches may be translated into Esperanto after the fact, but that comes from low quality sites like Quora.

Ultimately, it depends on the abilities of the translators. And many diplomats use their own, who may know up to 6 or more languages. Some countries like the Soviets were notorious for not wanting to use other translators, and always employed their own when possible. And along with English, French, Spanish, German, Italian, Greek, and Russian, Esperanto is one of the official languages of the UN, so all speeches are translated into it.

But if the languages are more obscure, say a Croat speaker, many of the translators will revert to Esperanto as a lingua franca. Especially if the principal primarily speaks a more obscure one of the hundreds of languages in say Africa.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@Mushroom

But if the languages are more obscure, say a Croat speaker, many of the translators will revert to Esperanto as a lingua franca. Especially if the principal primarily speaks a more obscure one of the hundreds of languages in say Africa.

That is not supported by internet articles. If a speaker doesn't use one of the UN's six official languages, they have their own translator who converts the speech to one of the six. Esperanto is not an official UN language.

AJ

Remus2 🚫

@LupusDei

Might want to try using an intermediate language such as Russian. Latvian to Russian, to English. It won't be perfect, but should be in the general ballpark.

Replies:   LupusDei
LupusDei 🚫
Updated:

@Remus2

I don't see how that could help as cultural references is literally what I'm writing about not trying to strip out, but seek to render.

And as to Russian specifically...

If I didn't know better I might take such suggestion for an insult. Russian is by no means neutral language in the context, but a slang spoken by a band of robbers led astray by a Estonia born Swede drunk who had a red hair and that's why they're calling themselves Rusty's men to this day.

(I refer to this guy who people of New City (Novgorod) had to recruit for a king when their democracy failed.)

Whatever history they may have had was destroyed by John the terrible (okay, Ivan, but that translates) a deranged killer and bookburner who wore Quran quotes on his crown.

Then they had illiterate Lithuania born Polish maid of a German pastor taken as slut by soldiers invading Latvia then under Sweden's king's rule, gifted to Peter as plaything spy, for an Empress, as a remarkable change to the better.

They have never forgiven perceived insult of just how our guy defeated Napoleon by giving up Moscow, but still had to have a Latvian named Crazy German (Jukums Vācietis) for the first marshal of USSR. It was under his oversight when Guderian worked on Blitzkrieg strategy in the Russian training grounds. And since Lenin's bodyguards were Latvians, the rumors that first KGB meetings were held in Latvian for convenience and security might well be true.

A lot of people are unaware that the USSR used Latvia as the location for storage and management of their technical standards. One of the reasons for this was the peculiarities with the Latvian language.

I wasn't either. But without research into it I might bet that it's more out the aforementioned chronical inability to run their own country than directly language related, as overall Russian was very heavily pushed in any technical fields as only language of trade.

Replies:   Remus2
Remus2 🚫

@LupusDei

I wasn't either. But without research into it I might bet that it's more out the aforementioned chronical inability to run their own country than directly language related, as overall Russian was very heavily pushed in any technical fields as only language of trade.

As it was explained to me, the Kremlin/ruling party of the time was very paranoid. They went to extreme lengths to prevent any one member state to have access to all technical knowledge. The Latvian language was utilized as another layer of security as most of the other member states had few if any Latvian speakers. You would be in a better position to verify that than I would.

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