Forum: Author Hangout

For a story, I need information about having a character - a small young woman (less than 5 feet tall, less than 100 pounds) using a bow-and-arrow. The question is what type to have her use - long-bow, crossbow, American bow. What does she have the body strength for? She's age 20, in good physical condition (but not Olympic-type strength) Since she was very young she had trained in tai chi (but not martial arts). She took gymnastics in high school, and she rides bicycles and horses regularly. I think that means she has strength in her legs, but probably not arms and upper body. She has worked summers on a farm, and has no trouble dealing with the square bales of hay (40 to 50 pounds), but does not appear to be muscular.
I'm not asking anybody to do research for me, but to point me toward where I can find out. I saw some sites talking about bows that "pull 80 pounds"(or some other number) but I have no idea what that means. Would the 40 to 50-pound bales of hay she handles mean that her bow's "Pull" limit is 40 to 50 pounds?

Modern times?

Watch Joerg Sprave's slingshot channel on YouTube and see his "instant legolas" invention.

There, you have just lost your whole evening! You're welcome :)

For a story, I need information about having a character - a small young woman (less than 5 feet tall, less than 100 pounds) using a bow-and-arrow.

https://gearjunkie.com/outdoor/hunt-fish/archery-bow-types-hunting-bowhunting

First, there is no American style bow.

There are long bows, and short bows, both of which make a single arch the big difference is size. An English logbow is 6-7 feet high after it's been strung. Short bows are around 3-4 foot and historically were primarily used by mounted archers.

Then you have recurve bows, crossbows and Compound bows.

A compound bow is like a short bow, but uses pulleys and cams rather than spring force in the shaft of the bow to provide power.

Modern crossbows can be compound.

I saw some sites talking about bows that "pull 80 pounds"(or some other number) but I have no idea what that means. Would the 40 to 50-pound bales of hay she handles mean that her bow's "Pull" limit is 40 to 50 pounds?

That's the draw weight of the bow. This is both how much force is required to draw the bow and how much force will be applied to the arrow.

So drawing a 50 pound bow would take strength equivalent to lifting a 50 pound weight.

Period English long bows have a draw weight in the range of 90-110 pounds.

Modern bows can be obtained in almost any draw weight,

A big advantage with a compound bow is that the draw weight is adjustable in a range for any given bow.

However, again, what will she be doing with the bow matters. For target shooting a low draw weight is fine unless it's long range shooting.

For hunting, the state where I am sets a minimum draw weight for bow hunting of 30 pounds.

https://bowhunting360.com/2019/05/16/much-draw-weight-bowhunters-need/

In modern times, a crossbow works with some of the newer ratcheting levers to charge it. Short of that, many slighter built women use compound bows in competition. I have a niece with the build you describe and she's deadly with her compound bow out to 100 yards.

Primitive longbow is relatively simple to make. In some circumstances it could be the most believable self-made or jerry rigged ranged weapon. As to the maximum size of the longbow, take in mind that it's drawn at shoulder height and upwards, so, used at standing stance effectively can be up to one and a half times the full height of the person using it. The maximum effective range mentioned in literature may be slightly misleading in a sense, as in those ranges a classical longbowmen unit is used as artillery in strategic terms, providing indirect fire area bombardment rather than targeted single shots.

Japanese used an asymmetric bow, with one short and one long arm. That's what you naturally get making a bow from a small three cut whole. Also, can be used on horseback.

Recurve bows explore ways to pack more punch in more compact form, at price of increased complexity of production. The name itself merely means that the arms of the bow would curve forward without tension of the string holding it straight. As we can read in Greek hero epics, mounting the string on a recurve bow may require superhuman strength (or more realistically, special tooling), but not necessary firing it afterwards. Wood/bone laminated recurve shortbows of mongol-tatar cavalry were high tech for their time.

Modern compound bows, characterized by the presence of cams on the end of the arms, increase the complexity of the bow further, employing modern materials and technology. The advantages besides more compact form are more even distribution of draw power (as opposed to progressive) and extended aiming time as it's no longer necessary to hold the full draw weight doing so.

Crossbows are no bows at all, despite similarities, but different class of a weapon. By the use case, it's better to think about those as mechanical energy firearms, as they typically are used only as direct fire weapons (as opposed to high arc modes of bow archery). In practical terms they trade increased mechanical complexity and extended loading time for increased power and ease of use, including unlimited aiming time, as the string is held by mechanism released by a trigger. Charging is done by lever and/or winch systems and thus not necessarily limited by user strength, but can be complex and time consuming. Repeating crossbows auto-load from a magazine as part of the charge process, but usually doesn't pack much power, meant for short range use and emphasizing reloading speed (typically done by a lever).

Funny you should ask! Just decided to make a couple of twins in the book I'm working on into archers! They'll have just started Olympic style archery in 1972 (the first year archery re-joined the modern Olympics) and be showing great potential by the time of their introduction in 1973. Later, I'll be turning them into (magically-enhanced) combat archers, and that will be a trip.

As for draw weights, on traditional bows (long bow or recurve, including target recurve bows), I think some of the draw weights suggested above are a bit high for a female archer. Darrell Pace, two-time Olympic individual gold medalist, multiple World and National chamiponships, and recently selected as the "Archer of the Century" shot a 46-pound draw weight wen he won his first National championship in 1973 at age 16. History of the National Archery Association, Vol 2. 1946-1978. Some archers shoot more today, but not by a lot. Pace was shooting aluminum arrows in '73. Today's thinner carbon arrows are even less affected by cross winds, even out to 90 meters.

For target archery, it's not the draw of the bow (which is done primarily with the muscles of the back, not the arm), but the tension at full draw while holding for up to several seconds (even longer for some archers, especially decades ago).

Compound bows, even for target archery, "let off" as the pulley's turn over so that the archer may be holding as little as 10% or so at full draw. But, they have to pull past the peak draw to get there. So, an 80-pound draw weight on a compound bow might only put 10 pounds or so on the archer at full draw. At such light draw weights, use of a mechanical release is almost mandatory; hard to get a clean finger release at such light weights.

That's target archery. For hunting, or hunting simulations such as "bowhunting" style tournaments, archers will shoot heavier weights to minimize the effect of mis-estimating distance. It is extremely rare to see a female competing in these categories at such tournaments.

Going back in time, Howard Hill, maybe the greatest "traditional" style hunting and demonstration archer ever, shot both a 90-pound and a 110-pound bow in his demonstrations. He could powder aspirins tossed into the air and once beat the national skeet champion in a contest that began with unloaded weapons on the ground to see who could load, call for the clay and break it first.

So, for authenticity - what is your character going to be doing? Target archery? Great. Go for it. Hunting? Sure - with a compound and release. Combat with traditional bows? It's a poor fit unless there is some significant enhancement to normal female upper body strength. Regardless, the type of shooting will set a lot of parameters for style of bow and draw weight.

The question is what type to have her use - long-bow, crossbow, American bow.

I'd suggest that the real question is for what purpose is she using the bow.

Is she hunting to feed herself, for pleasure, for competition? Etc etc. If she is using it in combat then you need to ascertain her targets clothing, armour etc. You can largely ignore the specifics quoted for competition, for obvious reasons competition bows and arrows are not selected for their ability to penetrate the armour of a mounted knight.

In short, work backwards. Decide target then decide arrow type, that leads to the types of bow, and 'pull' your character can handle. Bear in mind that accuracy is born of practise and practise builds muscle and muscle memory so the limit isn't that possible on day one, but further down the line when accuracy is achieved.

She has worked summers on a farm, and has no trouble dealing with the square bales of hay (40 to 50 pounds), but does not appear to be muscular.

One thing to remember is that it isn't the weight the person is moving, yes in your example the character is lifting 40-50 pounds which even young teenagers/kids can do with easy but if you are doing it on a farm then you are moving large numbers at a time like this morning I filled an order for 750 bales of hay at 45 pounds a bale that is almost 34,000 pounds of weight moved. This will build up a persons stamina very easily to handle such weights with ease.

Now pulling and shooting a bow is some what on the opposite side you are drawing a weight, aiming, and releasing the shot in a matter of a few seconds so it is better to think as a person who does dead lifting or jerk lifting and the weight that they can lift for the short periods of times required to perform the lift.

The point I'm trying to make is that the weight wouldn't be the limiting factor for a women in drawing and firing a bow so much as it would be for anyone in that how skilled an accurate they are with placing their shots and if they are using a crossbow well with all the different mechanical ways of arming them they pretty much become a point and click weapon. A crossbow that is weighted say 300 pounds and easily be armed with a Medieval Goat's Foot or Wippe using only 30-50 pounds of force. The only problem with firing a crossbow is the amount of time needed to arm the weapon. The heaviest crossbows could be shot about 8 times in 5 minutes with a skilled operator. An archer with a 160 lb/73kg hand bow could loose 8 arrows in a minute, 30 arrows in 5 minutes.