Forum: Author Hangout

Who is your ideal reader?

Paige Hawthorne 🚫

Hilary Mantel, who has apparently written some books, described her own imaginary readers. (The Mary-Kay she refers to is Mary-Kay Wilmers, one of the founders of the 'London Review of Books'.)

"Mary-Kay has come for me to be one of the small shadowy group of ideal readers I think most writers have lurking, somewhere at the back of their minds, when they sit down to write. These watchers in the psyche are more important than almost anyone else in a writer's life because you depend on them not only for their judgement but also for the confidence they impart. They are shadowy because they hold the secret of your potential."

For me, here at SOL, I hope for readers with at least a fourth-grade comprehension level. Of course, this is 'more honored in the breach than in the observance'.

What about your own dream readers?

Paige

Replies: Mushroom Switch Blayde Eddie Davidson Eddie Davidson Quasirandom Mat Twassel joyR Uther Pendragon richardshagrin

Mushroom 🚫

@Paige Hawthorne

What about your own dream readers?

For me, it would be people that are reading the stories more for the story, than the sex itself. I try to put a lot of work into creating the story and setting, much more than simply throwing two people together so they can get it on.

Replies: Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf 🚫

@Mushroom

I agree with 'fourth-grade' and would, in fact, put that at a minimum of fifth to sixth in 'reading score' level and high school at least in terms of thoughts and ideas. I'm prone to characters who wax philosophical and think about things (a lot) and my ideal reader follows that.

I agree with Mushroom about sex scenes. The sex is important because it's another important character interaction, not because it's hot people getting it on. I don't find sex scenes interesting to write, or read, when they're between people who have an established relationship unless something new and different and interesting is happening, either physically or emotionally or on whatever level.

Also, someone who wants to go on an extended journey with the characters. I'm telling a long story; hopefully people are willing to join me on the trip and enjoy the parts that are quiet and 'normal' as well as the parts that are action and drama.

So, really, my ideal reader is probably myself first and then people more-or-less like myself. As I receive reader feedback, my understanding of who my readers are grows, but that's not an 'ideal', that's reality.

Part of the analysis, I think, are the readers who are decidedly not ideal. Like most people, I like to be liked, and the notes from people who just plain don't like the story were hard to take. Not critical notes from someone who's involved and interested and doesn't like a direction the story went - those are highly valuable. But the occasional reader who says something like "Slow?! Paint dries faster!".

That's perfectly valid from some perspectives, and I had to be willing to say, hey, if it's not your cup of tea, go read something that is. I can't please everyone, and my ideal reader (me, again) wouldn't like it if I tried to turn things into an action-packed page-turner where the interesting character moments were shoved to the side.

Replies: Keet Mushroom

Keet 🚫

@Grey Wolf

I don't find sex scenes interesting to write, or read, when they're between people who have an established relationship unless something new and different and interesting is happening, either physically or emotionally or on whatever level.

Not even then. Personally I rather read implied sex unless a 'real' sex scene is significant to the story. In most cases implied sex tells just as much without the distraction of a descriptive sex scene that goes off the track of the real story.

Mushroom 🚫

@Grey Wolf

The sex is important because it's another important character interaction, not because it's hot people getting it on. I don't find sex scenes interesting to write, or read, when they're between people who have an established relationship unless something new and different and interesting is happening, either physically or emotionally or on whatever level.

I will admit, I frequently find them a chore to write. However, there is one thing that permeates many of my stories that helps me at least.

I think that a large percentage of my stories involve teens. Not because of any fixation I have with kids, but because I love writing about "first experiences". Rarely do I have kids and adults together, my favorite pairing is two teens, discovering the new world of "being adults" together. And as they are generally less jaded and "battle worn" than adults, I simply find it refreshing.

Two teens can spend hours just making out, something you never really find when the story involves a couple in their 30's. Where experiences and expectations have raised the bar for what is expected behavior on a date.

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Paige Hawthorne

What about your own dream readers?

Open-minded readers who enjoy a story for what it is, not what they want it to be or not to be.

Eddie Davidson 🚫
Updated:

@Paige Hawthorne

I have noticed that many of my readers have deeply analytical minds and are often engineers, software developers, accountants etc.

It seems to be a pattern and perhaps that is because I tend to think very analytically. I often spend time on details as well because I want my reader to smell/feel/taste/see the world they are in and a few seemingly pointless details often help me do that without moving the plot along. I think those are the kind of readers who are not chomping for me to just "Get to the fucking already".

Fucking happens - but its all the stuff around it that excites me.

ideally, my reader is one who doesn't care if their fetish is not represented solely because I also don't like to limit myself. If I feel the character would do (X) then they would do (x). If I describe a situation where its uncomfortable or the main character struggles, my ideal reader does not get upset when the character fails. In order for the triumphs to feel important, I need them to have down points too. I do not like characters who always win. I need most of my main characters to have some flaws - especially at the start of the story.

Lastly, I like collaboration - so readers who frequently send constructive feedback are my bread and butter. If they help me catch a mistake, or have some ideas to share that is a delight to me.

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Eddie Davidson

I do not like characters who always win.

Lee Child said that when he created Jack Reacher he wanted a character that always won.

Eddie Davidson 🚫
Updated:

@Paige Hawthorne

Yep like Superman, wish fulfillment fantasy

"I had mind control powers. I had all the wealth I could ever imagine with more on the way. I was handsome.My style was unparalleled. James Bond was based on me but they had to tone him down because My awesomeness couldn't fit in a single story. I have seven gold medals and one bronze medal. I threw the bronze medal in the garbage. I studied under Bruce Lee and beat Chuck Norris with his own foot

Everyone wanted to be me or do me or both. Now let me tell you how I got even with anyone who ever doubted me "

Quasirandom 🚫

@Paige Hawthorne

At the risk of sounding flippant, me.

I've found over the years that sometimes there are other people who read my works with enjoyment, and even convinced commercial publishers there's enough readers to risk paying me, but in all honesty I write to tell myself stories.

Replies: whisperclaw

whisperclaw 🚫

@Quasirandom

Quasirandom I don't think that's flippant at all. I came here to say the same thing. I write stories I would want to read and hope there are others with tastes similar to mine who will also enjoy it. If I'm wrong, then at the very least I've satisfied myself.

Mat Twassel 🚫

@Paige Hawthorne

I sometimes wonder whether I'd like my stories if they were written by someone else. Mostly I think I would. There have been times when I've read something I wrote long ago and recognized it barely if at all as something I'd written. Usually I like those stories. Sometimes I cringe.

I certainly like to be liked (or should I say I like for my stories to be liked), but I wouldn't want to have a limited set of readers. Might be good if they knew English, but beyond that, I say have at it.

Replies: Uther_Pendragon

Uther_Pendragon 🚫

@Mat Twassel

I sometimes wonder whether I'd like my stories if they were written by someone else.

After submitting a couple hundred stories and not downloading a dozen from other writers, I went to the story-selection program. I put in the best criteria of what I wanted to read. Fairly often, an Uther story pops out.

Replies: Mat Twassel

Mat Twassel 🚫

@Uther_Pendragon

Is the story-selection program the category-search? I tried it out, but I may have operated it wrong. The search yielded but one story. And a quick glance at it showed me it wasn't at all something I'd like.

Replies: bk69 Grey Wolf

bk69 🚫

@Mat Twassel

You might want to select only codes that appeal to you, rather than ones that don't.
And try to keep the number of codes down, since the chance of a decent story containing (and being coded as containing) 15 different contents would be slim.

Replies: Mat Twassel

Mat Twassel 🚫

@bk69

Thanks for the reply. I did only pick codes that appealed to me. I suspect the problem is that the search assumes all I'm okay with any.

Replies: Uther_Pendragon

Uther_Pendragon 🚫

@Mat Twassel

Thanks for the reply. I did only pick codes that appealed to me. I suspect the problem is that the search assumes all I'm okay with any.

A computer is a very-ast idiot. You have to deal with the program in the terms that it understands in the way tht it understands them.
I handled that I was okay with MF, Mf, mFand mfby putting ina huge set of negatives.

Grey Wolf 🚫

@Mat Twassel

To elaborate on Uther_Pendragon's response below: the way to handle this is to hit the link at the top of Category Search that says "Switch to Complex Form", then put negatives on the things you do not want as tags.

That will let you filter out codes that are no-goes as well as filter in codes that are what you're looking for.

Otherwise, yes, the assumption is that your codes are necessary but others are OK.

You can also change the box at the bottom from 'All' to 'Exact Match', but that's likely to miss a lot of things unless you can enumerate every code that matters and there are none that don't matter.

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@Grey Wolf

To elaborate on Uther_Pendragon's response below: the way to handle this is to hit the link at the top of Category Search that says "Switch to Complex Form", then put negatives on the things you do not want as tags.

The complex form on the category search is a premier function. If Mr Twassel doesn't have a premier membership he can't do that.

joyR 🚫

@Paige Hawthorne

What about your own dream readers?

Mrs Trellis of North Wales.

Replies: Paige Hawthorne

Paige Hawthorne 🚫

@joyR

Mrs Trellis of North Wales.

Good one! I had to look it up.

Paige

Replies: richardshagrin

richardshagrin 🚫

@Paige Hawthorne

Mrs Trellis of North Wales

"Who is Mrs Trellis of North Wales?

Mrs Trellis of North Wales is the weird eccentric lady who writes every week to Humphrey Lyttelton, the Chairman of Radio 4's comedy panel game "I'm sorry, I haven't a clue".

This is a very popular programme with Theosophists. The show is introduced as "The Antidote to Panel Games" and consists of a panel of four comedians, split into two teams and "given silly things to do" by a chairman. The programme was first aired on April 11th 1972 and the signature tune is a cabaret version of Deutschland Uber Alles called "The Schickel Shamble" written by Ron Goodwin."

You can catch this show and Mrs Trellis of North Wales regularly on BBC Radio 4 and the World Service. Some old episodes are run on BBC 7 (Digital Radio). The show tours the country and you may be able to get in as part of the studio audience.

I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue Comes to Cardiff

21st December 1998 and begins with the customary

letter from Mrs Trellis of North Wales

Mrs Trellis's Letters

Mrs Trellis's incoherent letters usually involve her mistaking Humphrey Lyttelton for another Radio 4 presenter or media personality, and are read out to much amusement. A modest web page, such as this, cannot even begin to convey just how funny these letters actually are when Humphrey Lyttelton reads them out but here are two examples anyway;

Dear Kenton,

I was appalled on tuning in this morning to hear a torrent of blatant filth, with terms such as 'Big Bang', 'Large Firm Success', 'Satisfying Performance', and worst of all, 'Job Blows'. It was the most disgusting edition of the Today programme's Business Report ever!

Yours faithfully,
Mrs. Trellis

_______________________

Dear Mr Manilow,

I have so much been enjoying your cookery show. I have to say it's been years since I last came upon a spotted dick. Your bread-making recipes have been particularly helpful during the BBQ season - I have been getting my baps out at every opportunity.

Yours et cetera,
Mrs Trellis.

PS: love to everyone at BBC Devon.

Replies: joyR

joyR 🚫

@richardshagrin

Instead of doing a copy/paste of the whole web page, why not just post a link?

Also, the website isn't up to date as Humphrey Lyttelton sadly passed away April 25, 2008. ISIHAC is now hosted by Jack Dee.

Uther Pendragon 🚫

@Paige Hawthorne

People with a reasonable degree of education -- or, at least, learning. Readers who -- if they want sex-- want sex between people, and not just between genitals. Readers who want to see problems solved -- not just obviated by the wealth or superpowers of the characters.

richardshagrin 🚫

@Paige Hawthorne

ideal reader

Readers who play poker, probably can say I deal, so they can be I deal readers.

Replies: bk69

bk69 🚫

@richardshagrin

On a related, but not entirely, topic:
what exactly is 'plutonic'? Dealing with plutonium, or with the former planet, or the Disney freak?

Replies: Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf 🚫

@bk69

A tonic for plutocrats? Who, oddly, have nothing to do with plutonium, nor the planet, nor the dog.

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Forum: Author Hangout

Who is your ideal reader?

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