Forum: Author Hangout

Yes, I'm building a ePub (which is generating the errors when I look up the TOC index). Aside from setting up various paragraph and "span" types in styles, I'm not setting up anything in particular. In fact, I reset most things to 'override' the individual settings the reader might have set by default with the following STYLE command:

/* Clear all default settings */
html, body, div, h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, ul, ol, dl, li, dt, dd, p, pre, table, th, td, tr { margin: 0; padding: 0; }

(I set my own margins and paddings for each paragraph type, rather than relying on book or system defaults.)

But my chapter headings look like the following:

< h2>< span align="center">< a name="Ch101">1: A Shocking Surprise< /a>< /span>< /h2>

1 - Your < span> tag is invalid for xhtml (for EPUBs). Span is an inline tag, can't have alignment, it will be ignored.

Alas, the "span align='center'" command is an Apple requirement. If it's NOT included, NO line will be centered (text lines follow the paragraph style definitions, but anything with a graphic in it won't). Apparently, Apple devices look for the command before they'll center anything.

It took quite a while before I finally learned that, and I've confirmed it through repeated testing. I can use your < div style>, but I don't know whether Apple will respect that format or not.

Apparently, @page{counter-reset:page;} would clear the counter...

That's a start, but I'd like to separate the front matter from the actual story text, which would require a different numbering system. Any clues on how to reset that, in ePub 2 or 3 (I normally default to type 2).?

That's a start, but I'd like to separate the front matter from the actual story text, which would require a different numbering system. Any clues on how to reset that, in ePub 2 or 3 (I normally default to type 2).?

You can use multiple counters in CSS. And each counter can be displayed with it's own style of course.
One thing you can break your head on for a long time: counter-reset for multiple counters MUST be in a single statement. If you use multiple lines ALL counters will remain 0. So:
counter-reset: mycounter1 0;
counter-reset: mycounter2 0;
counter-reset: mycounter3 0;
is wrong. It should be:
counter-reset: mycounter1 0 mycounter2 0 mycounter3 0;

Notice 1: only spaces in between, no other punctuation.
Notice 2: see the '0'? You can initially set a different number which might be useful in your case. (Use a single counter but reset it with a different number and style where you want it.)

Page numbers depends heavily on the software used to create the epub and the software used to read it might overrule it.
To give an example how random it can be: Adobe Digital Editions creates a fake page number every 1000 characters.

I get the impression Crumbly uses CSS directly for a bunch of things. (Or maybe that was Ernest). CSS does support page numbering, and if a page size is defined the text body will be spread over multiple pages based on font face/type/size, and there's a built-in counter. Other divisions than pages can also get counters, such as chapters or sections.
Unfortunately, I found no details on using alternate numbering (the small roman numerals are a problem). Like I said, trivial problem using LaTeX, much more challenging using CSS.

CSS does support page numbering

No, CSS doesn't support page numbering, it supports counters which you can try to abuse for page numbering.

You can display counters with roman numbers:

content: counter(my-counter, upper-roman);

In fact, you can use any of the list-style-type property values.

You can display counters with roman numbers:

content: counter(my-counter, upper-roman);
In fact, you can use any of the list-style-type property values.

Thanks Keet, I'll try numbering the front matter differently, to set it off, but if I get into trouble, I'll simply reset the counter once the story starts (the end-number is fine if it just continues once the story is complete, it's only the front-matter which confuses things, since the reader has to back up to see any of it).

You probably want to define a structure for front matter, and have a specific counter there, using lower-roman, then still reset the page counter for the main body of text. (I saw indications CSS2 was supposed to have native support for page numbering - although pages were defined oddly. CSS3 is a little better, but not much for it.)

Keet, I understand how to keep counters in html/ePub, but to make this work, I need to know the specific counter that browsers use to track page numbers based on the number of page breaks.

I don't want to duplicate the page tracking, just reset the existing counter(s).

As far as the @page reset-counter command, where is that established (so it's not interpreted as text)?

Insert the @page{reset-counter:page;} right before the < h2> bit for your first chapter. Should work. If it doesn't, what does happen? It's a matter of diagnosing what's happening... you change something, and based on what happens, you can have a better idea what's going on.

I get the impression Crumbly uses CSS directly for a bunch of things. (Or maybe that was Ernest).

Aside from his use of colors for a variety of things, Ernest and I tend to code html header/Style definitions similarly.

So, given no specific way to format the front-matter from the rest of the story, I guess it's easy enough to simply restart the page numbering when the story actually starts, so there reader will know where in the story itself they are at, which again, is where the book will open up based on my instructions when generating the Calibre generation.

As far as I know 'page numbers' are 'counted' from the page brakes in your original document.

Nope. Relying on Apple Books for testing purposes, the TOC index lists each page, based on the current size of the Books window (which applies to any book currently open or loaded for my 'library'). If I reset the window for one, it resets the pagination for ALL. So, think of it as a iCloud (user) setting, rather than a device or document setting. Though I do define my H1 and H2 settings to start with a page break to separate one from the next.

I reset and redefine ALL of my paragraph types (after stripping out ALL of the Word generated crapola), and then generate it using whatever the latest version of Calibre is. So, while I define where each page number starts, it would be Calibre which is defining the actual page numbering (though again, I have no idea why, given that it varies on each user's device, so if I could turn it off entirely, that would be fine).

Although I've tested on a variety of different devices, I usually test on Apple Books (since they seem to be the most stringent (aside from Lulu, which every other source sets em utterly impossible standards they don't implement themselves, so the restrictions are essentially meaningless).

Your Reddit link was interesting, but the follow-up was exclusively Kindle-based, whereas I'm going for general usage (I've never noticed Kindle's keeping track of specific page numbers, and only recently noticed Apple Books doing it), but again, the page numbers are for the current window (adjusting for each window, where the 'default' window size is determined by the last-opened Apple Books window (i.e. user settings, not device or author defined).

Yeah, here's my default H1 definition, which sets each page break in the document (I code my H2 and H3 similarly):

h1
{
font-size: 3.5em;
page-break-before:always;
text-align:center;
font-weight: bold;
margin-top:2em;
margin-bottom:0em;
}

The "margin-bottom" is because I insert a graphic chapter header on each new page, which is defined separately (with a small padding on the top and bottom).

3. Where do you see page numbers in an ebook?

The e-book viewer I use (calibre's own dedicated reader) has the page numbering at top-left; at present mine says 88.3 / 699, and you can overtype or use the spin buttons to change page; doing a page-down takes me to 90.5 / 699. It's useful to have as the location is not preserved over reboots, so I need to remember my page number (and the book too, as I'm in book 15 of a 20+ book series)

Not on my Calibre reader. I have the percent read on the bottom right corner.

I have the ToC on the left side. I didn't want to close it (afraid I would forget how to get it back) but maybe the page number is hidden behind it.

Nope, I was using Apple's Books app (i.e. not Calibre, since Apple is generally the most stringent of the various device ePubs (if you set it for Apple, it'll generally work for anything else), as Apple has multiple 'Apple' specific formatting standards like centering.

You're not going to get worthwhile advice from me on HTML, but I'm confused.

1. The 'index' page is the little TOC icon in the upper left corner of the ePub display, which when you click it, displays the Table of Contents, so you can jump to any chapter in the document of your choice.
2. The number of pages dynamically changes based upon fonts and the size of the window at the time, since I have a LOT of acknowledgments and several pages of "Other Books", they need a couple full pages to display.
3. The page numbers are listed in the TOC index (discussed above). I'd never noticed them, so maybe it's a new feature for Apple devices, which is why I was asking how to reset it.

If you email me, I'll send you screen shots so you can see how it looks in RL.

Ernest, like you, I reset ALL counter and defaults in my ePubs, but apparently the display device keeps track of the current page numbers and adjusts the dynamic TOC. I don't mind the page numbers, which are irrelevant to me, but I want to separate the front-matter from the actual story, especially since th story start on the first page of the story.