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Why Can't Authors Just Use the Word "Said" - a Short Story by Eddie Davidson

Eddie Davidson ๐Ÿšซ

"Why can't Authors just use the word 'Said'?" he asked.

"Huh?" She intoned vocally as a wintry smile spread across her face.

"Sorry, that was a strange question to ask," he generated sonically from his speech organs.


Finis

samsonjas ๐Ÿšซ

This has been talked about here before.

Some people have said they find the "said"s invisible.

Personally, I find the repetition really grating. The more the author tags who said what, always with the same "x said", the more annoying it is.

Replies:   bk69
bk69 ๐Ÿšซ

@samsonjas

I believe the complaint was about those who chose to use... alternate attributions?
But yes, '(s)he said' is the implied attribution of any dialog, and hence usually superfluous.

Replies:   Eddie Davidson
Eddie Davidson ๐Ÿšซ

@bk69

"I agree" He opened his mouth and words came out and those words were 'I agree'.

It would be interesting to do an entire story without using the word said one time.

Replies:   Reluctant_Sir
Reluctant_Sir ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Eddie Davidson

"That's what!"

-- She

Jokes aside, I agree a constant He/She said is annoying and I try to be a little varied without making it ridiculous in the other direction. In fact, I try to skip any tags when it is two people and the conversation doesn't drag on too long.

Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

using other words can add a lot more to the story as there is a lot of difference between phrases like: He said, he shouted, he asked, he whispered, he yelled, etc - and that's before you get to the issues of tense in the story.

oyster50 ๐Ÿšซ

I make an effort to vary from "she said" in the interests of satisfying my own senses.

Some times it's easier than other times, though.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@oyster50

Another thing you can do is substitute actions for dialog tags.

Bob slammed his hand down on the table. "Just get it done!"

Crumbly Writer ๐Ÿšซ

The main time that "s/he said" comes up in these discussions is in reaction to the overuse of a plethora of alternatives (ex: she whispered, she blathered, she ranted or she rationalized). Either form, taken to extremes is bad.

That said, I firmly believe that "said" is, by and large, mostly invisible. Clearly readers read it, but they're so used to it, that they don't pay as much attention to the attribution. However, whenever you think you're using "said" too often, then you put in an alternative.

The key is to limit other attributions unless they add to the story (i.e. they reflect the character's emotional state). If it isn't needed, then use "said" most of the time, though mixing it enough so it doesn't get annoying.

Also, a better alternative to overusing attribution is to use Action Attributions, where you leave off the attribution altogether and instead describe what the character does. Ex:

"That's the way it has to be!" Ton slammed his fist on the table, his cheeks reddening and his eyes dilating. "No get back to what you were doing, and let's never discuss this every again!"

In the end, using everything other than said is extremely obnoxious, like the author is showing off. Alternatively, if the use "said" excessively, it appears that they have NO imagination! Thus, it's best to alternative techniques, so that each one seems fresh, fits the situation and makes reading enjoyable, rather than 'necessary'.

irvmull ๐Ÿšซ

"Wonderful!" I ejaculated." - Arthur Conan Doyle, A Study in Scarlet

This seems more appropriate for SOL, don't you think?

Replies:   daisydesiree
daisydesiree ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@irvmull

"Wonderful!" I ejaculated." - Arthur Conan Doyle, A Study in Scarlet

"You're still hard?" I came.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@daisydesiree

"You're still hard?" I came.

A magician was traveling from New York to London with the rabbit he uses for his act. Half way through the flight, he starts to sing, "My bunny lies over the ocean. My bunny lies over the sea..."

irvmull ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@daisydesiree

"Wonderful!" I ejaculated." - Arthur Conan Doyle, A Study in Scarlet

"You're still hard?" I came.

"Want me to bend over?" she articulated.

"We've already tried that" he replied in rebuttal.

daisydesiree ๐Ÿšซ

@irvmull

"Wonderful!" I ejaculated." - Arthur Conan Doyle, A Study in Scarlet

"You're still hard?" I came.

"Want me to bend over?" she articulated.

"We've already tried that" he replied in rebuttal.

"Not there!" she oralled

Replies:   irvmull
irvmull ๐Ÿšซ

@daisydesiree

"Not there!" she oralled

"How about here?" she mouthed breathlessly.

Replies:   daisydesiree
daisydesiree ๐Ÿšซ

@irvmull

"Not there!" she oralled

"How about here?" she mouthed breathlessly.

I like that! I could never imagine using oralled in actual dialogue I write.

richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ

@irvmull

rebuttal.

Al may need rebutter as a lubricant if you plan to rebutt Al.

Replies:   bk69  awnlee jawking
bk69 ๐Ÿšซ

@richardshagrin

rebutter

So... ghee?

awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@richardshagrin

butter as a lubricant

So Last Tango in Paris ;-)

AJ

Replies:   irvmull
irvmull ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

butter as a lubricant

So Last Tango in Paris ;-)

"Deliverence?" he queried.

Crumbly Writer ๐Ÿšซ

@daisydesiree

"You're still hard?" I came.

Even better (and slightly less awkward):

"You're still hard?" I came back (as opposed to "I rejoined").

Replies:   daisydesiree
daisydesiree ๐Ÿšซ

@Crumbly Writer

"You're still hard?" I came.

Even better (and slightly less awkward):

"You're still hard?" I came back (as opposed to "I rejoined").

IMO, adding the work "back" loses the sexual innuendo started with the Sherlock Holmes ejaculated quote. I did think of "came again" but I think she's only cum once (so far)

I like "rejoined" and wish I thought of that.

richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ

There is a city in Egypt called Port Said, the portly man said. There are restaurants in Israel named Port Said, the porter said. The Port of Seattle said it was closing one of their piers to be reconstructed. Said includes sad and sid and aid. Has enough been said?

REP ๐Ÿšซ

There are several reasons to use 'Speaker Attribution'. The most important reason is to keep the reader oriented as to which character is speaking the dialog.

Overuse of Speaker Attribution is just as bad as its underuse. Under-use results in the reader losing track of which character is speaking. Over-use results in an annoyed reader.

Using Speaker Attributions other than '(s)he said' is very appropriate when it is done to convey the emotional state of the speaker, especially a change in their prior emotional state.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

Using Speaker Attributions other than '(s)he said' is very appropriate when it is done to convey the emotional state of the speaker

It's also appropriate for volume/tone of voice issues not connected to emotional state.

Yelling due to an environment with a lot of background noise.

Whispering at a concert or in a library or to keep others near by from overhearing.

But as with basic speaker attribution, once established for a given conversation, you shouldn't need to keep pounding on it.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

But as with basic speaker attribution, once established for a given conversation, you shouldn't need to keep pounding on it.

As always, you needn't say every said, but you do need to remind readers who's speaking every now and then, and clarify who's speaking when the speaker isn't clearly established. Otherwise, let it ride, let it ride, let it ride, he said.

Replies:   REP
REP ๐Ÿšซ

@Crumbly Writer

and clarify who's speaking when the speaker isn't clearly established.

The other day I was reading a story containing ping-pong dialog by an author I had not read before. I became confused as to who was speaking. When I looked closer, I realized that the author had a series of dialog paragraphs spoken by the same character and every paragraph had a closing double quote. It took me a while to determine who was speaking in the last paragraph I read of the series. It turned out to be the same character, but I had to read several more paragraphs to come to that conclusion.

The problem I had was mainly caused by the author's use of closing quotes in every dialogue paragraph; closing quotes are generally considered to be the end of one character's dialog and the start of the other character's dialogue. My confusion was amplified by the almost non-existent use of character attribution during the string of unbroken dialog paragraphs between the two characters.

Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

The problem I had was mainly caused by the author's use of closing quotes in every dialogue paragraph; closing quotes are generally considered to be the end of one character's dialog and the start of the other character's dialogue.

And that's the reason for the punctuation rule.

daisydesiree ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

The other day I was reading a story containing ping-pong dialog by an author I had not read before. I became confused as to who was speaking.

And that's why I feel it's good to occasionally add a "Jane blurted" or such to keep the reader on track

awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

The other day I was reading a story containing ping-pong dialog

Me too. It was expositional dialogue - the two characters were telling each other stuff they already knew in order to inform the reader. The author got lost somewhere because, after finding one character saying something that clearly wasn't possible, I went back looking for missing dropped quotes. There weren't any. At some point one of the characters must have spoken two (or more) paragraphs in succession. But with the similarity of voice, both characters knowing the same facts, and the absence of dialogue tags except right at the start, it was impossible to determine where.

AJ

bk69 ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

Again, speaking for the OP... I think the argument was the writers who use a thesaurus to find new ways to write "(s)he said" without actually imparting any information are really just making the ignorable attributions more difficult to ignore, and hence more irritating.

Replies:   REP
REP ๐Ÿšซ

@bk69

You could be correct.

It is difficult to determine what was really intended when the OP ended with "Finis", instead of an explanation of the post's example. Although the title of the thread seems to imply that the OP is upset with the use of anything other than '(s)he said'; rather than being upset about the 'thesaurus' words used in the alternative attribution.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

alternative attribution

Though, to be fair, alternative alliterative attributions are even worse!

Crumbly Writer ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

Using Speaker Attributions other than '(s)he said' is very appropriate when it is done to convey the emotional state of the speaker, especially a change in their prior emotional state.

I thought I'd said that (though in many, many more words).

Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

The question for me is:

1. Do you state (said) a question
or
2. Do you ask (asked) a question

"Where to?" he said.
"Where to?" he asked.

Replies:   bk69  Crumbly Writer
bk69 ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

Yes.

Sometimes, you have 'said' a question. Typically, that would be a rhetorical question. Most times, you'd have asked it.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

@bk69

Sometimes, you have 'said' a question. Typically, that would be a rhetorical question. Most times, you'd have asked it.

The people in the "only 'said' camp" would say a question is "he said" not "he asked." It's the question mark that specifies that it's a question and you don't have to say "asked" to make it a question.

The "said" indicates simply who is speaking (saying something). It has nothing to do if what is being said is a question.

Replies:   bk69
bk69 ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

True. Although best is to just make the question part of ongoing dialog, where no attribution tag is necessary due to the alternating nature (failing a dropped quote) of dialog. And thus the implied 'said' doesn't bother anyone since it's not visible.

Crumbly Writer ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

The question for me is:

1. Do you state (said) a question
or
2. Do you ask (asked) a question

It all depends on how much you've already overused "s/he asked".

Just as said can definitely be overplayed, so too can "asked".

Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

"Don't light that fuse!" he exploded.

irvmull ๐Ÿšซ

"A parachute can be useful", he explained.

Replies:   irvmull
irvmull ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@irvmull

"Yep, still hard," he affirmed.

"I didn't know she was going to invite a friend" he recounted.

"I'm having sex with my brother," she related.

Replies:   daisydesiree
daisydesiree ๐Ÿšซ

@irvmull

My boyfriend's cock is the first one awake in the morning," she crowed.

richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ

"Tom Swifties,' a Word Game
MONITOR QUIZ

April 15, 1997

By Nancy Kendall
This game is based on the science-fiction books for children by Victor Appleton. The creator of "Tom Swift" was partial to adverbs, and used them a lot. (Adjectives describe nouns; adverbs describe verbs. Most adverbs end in "ly.")

"Tom Swifties" take adverbs one step further. Here's one: " 'Sit down in the back of the boat!' he said sternly." (Get it? The back of a boat is the "stern.")

See if you can complete these "swifties." The blanks indicate the number of letters in the answer, and hints are given in parentheses.

1. "Get ready for a quiz," the teacher said - - - - - - -. (Irritably)

2. "Can I turn on more lights for you?" he asked - - - - - - - -. (Cleverly)

3 "Our baby is due in May," she said - - - - - - - - - - -. (Looking forward to)

4. "Would you like to put the worm on the hook?" she asked - - - - - - - - - -. (Temptingly)

5. "Must we live on the prairie?" he said - - - - - - - - - - -. (Mournfully)

6. "That animal is too big to be a pony!" he said - - - - - - - -. (Harshly, huskily)

7. "I like sleeping in the woods - if I'm in a shelter," he said - - - - - - - - -. (Extremely, vividly)

8. "These raspberries are a lovely deep color," she - - - - - - - noticed. (With alacrity)

9. "Thanks for helping me clean out the fireplace," he said - - - - - - - - - -. (Thankfully)

10. "What's all that foaming water on the river ahead of us?" she asked - - - - - - -. (Quickly)

11. "Hot dogs are my favorite," he admitted - - - - - - -. (Bluntly)

12. "This pie is sour," she said - - - - - -. (Cuttingly)

ANSWERS:

(1) testily; (2) brightly; (3) expectantly; (4) alluringly; (5) plaintively; (6) hoarsely; (7) intensely; (8) readily;
(9) gratefully; (10) rapidly; (11) frankly; (12) tartly."

irvmull ๐Ÿšซ

"There's gold in them thar hills", the old miner claimed.

"We struck it rich!", the Texan gushed.

Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

I'm reading another David Baldacci novel. He uses horrendous dialogue tags throughout. They take me out of the dialogue. But not only using awful verbs instead of "said." Here's one that took me out of the dialogue:

"How healthy?" he wanted to know.

YUCK!

It didn't need a dialogue tag to begin with. And the "wanted to know"? He asked "how healthy" so he wanted to know.

Can you imagine:

"How old are you?" he asked wanting to know how old she was.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

It didn't need a dialogue tag to begin with. And the "wanted to know"? He asked "how healthy" so he wanted to know.

I agree with you that "wanted to know" is awful^2 as a dialog tag.

That said, in real life, people frequently ask questions they don't really want a real answer to in the name of "small talk".

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

That said, in real life, people frequently ask questions they don't really want a real answer to in the name of "small talk".

Then maybe an exception would require a clarification after the dialogue, such as:

"How healthy?" he asked not really wanting to know.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

Then maybe an exception would require a clarification after the dialogue, such as:

In my personal experience, someone asking that particular question and wanting a genuine honest answer would be the exception.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

In my personal experience, someone asking that particular question and wanting a genuine honest answer would be the exception.

That's the problem with using examples out of context. It was crystal clear he wanted to know.

Basically, he's overweight and out of shape (I didn't read the first novel in the series but I guess it's a recent thing). One of his new co-workers (in a task force set up to work with the FBI) stocked his refrigerator before he got there. She told him she bought healthy food. He asked, "How healthy?" afraid he wouldn't have anything good to eat.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

Ah, so it wasn't the other' person's health he was asking about. Yeah, that's different.

awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

"How healthy," he wanted to know.

That's not a dialogue tag, it's a comma splice.

AJ

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

"How healthy," he wanted to know.

That's not a dialogue tag, it's a comma splice.

I just noticed I forgot the question mark. Fixed it in the post you quoted from.

I don't think that's a comma splice.

I guess it should have been: "How healthy?" he asked, wanting to know.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

I don't think that's a comma splice.

Since the usual comma splice cheat of a semi-colon is unavailable, unless reworded as per your suggestion, the two parts have to be severed.

"How healthy?" He wanted to know.

ETA - it's definitely a splice of some kind, although with the question mark it's hard to argue it's a comma splice.

AJ

Mushroom ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

I admit I use this a bit, but normally in specific uses. Generally in one of my first person narrations, written in the past tense.

Normally when 3 or more people are talking, and an actual transcript is not required and for brevity.

My mom and sister came up, and asked me where I had been the night before. Mom got angry, and said "Aaron, you promised to pick your sister up from school yesterday!" I tried to claim I was doing a project in the library, but my sister said that was a lie because she saw me leaving the school with Melissa.

That would be an example of how I would use it most often. Mostly when I want to move the story along, and make it obvious in a setting with multiple people talking. But only provide the context of the conversation, what is actually said is not really important.

And as I said, the above is an example, and most times I would do it in a slightly different way, but that is close and would have no problem with that.

However, I have seen the opposite. Where a writer will then have "Abigail said" and "John said" inserted before almost every quote. That is just annoying.

Or so it is said.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Mushroom

Where a righter will then have "Abigail said" and "John said" inserted before almost every quote. That is just annoying.

And what would a lefter do in that situation. :)

rustyken ๐Ÿšซ

As to alternatives to "said," there is a web page that provides about two pages of alternatives. Some require specific situations in order to use. It is handy!

Replies:   Eddie Davidson
Eddie Davidson ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@rustyken

CHAPTER TWO:

"How wonderful, they have responded to my post," His voice modulated and broke the silence.

"Your post is moronic and pointless, You just wanted to write short stories highlighting needlessly complicated ways to replace the word 'Said' in dialogue " She pronounced in English using verbal tones to create words acoustically.

"No, I also wanted to use idioms," he descanted upon the nature of his post. His eyeballs registered visually that it was raining cats and dogs outside.

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