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Question about story tags

Thomas Alexander Garrison 🚫

How should I handle situations where a tag might fit, but not clearly? Two examples:

I plan on writing scenes where one character describes doing something, but the action itself takes place "off screen," e.g., anal. Should I tag the story "anal" to warn off readers who don't want it? Or should I avoid tagging it so readers who do want it aren't diasappointed?

While the consent level of all my "on screen" sexual interactions is consensual, I do plan on pushing the boundaries of consent here and there. It will never get to the point where the sex becomes outright nonconsensual, and even the "Reluctant" tag doesn't seem to quite fit with what I have in mind. Should I tag it, and if so, how?

Replies: Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster) bk69

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Thomas Alexander Garrison

No need to tag offscreen stuff.

Mentioning that somebody got raped is totally different from writing a rape seen where the action is detailed.

Saying that somebody liked anal and practiced it is different from describing the anal action.

Off-screen stuff shouldn't be tagged.

Replies: Vincent Berg

Vincent Berg 🚫

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

No need to tag offscreen stuff.

Mentioning that somebody got raped is totally different from writing a rape seen where the action is detailed.

Saying that somebody liked anal and practiced it is different from describing the anal action.

I've done that frequently, writing an entire story about things that happen 'off screen'. The key is what's 'detailed'. If characters are responding to childhood rape, or prolonged imprisonment and/or torture, as long as you don't get into the graphic details, you can discuss hypotheticals about someone's past until the cows come home.

However, your ratings for those stories will sometimes take a nosedive too, as people rarely like being reminded of the things they find distasteful in real life. But that's more of a 'preference' vs. 'objectionable content' thing.

Replies: bk69

bk69 🚫

@Vincent Berg

objectionable content tho... certain types of content that people want to avoid (cheating, rape, etc) doesn't really equate to graphic sexual acts so much. A guy walking in on his wife and her lover is definitely a story involving cheating, even if there isn't a detailed description of what part is penetrating which orifice.
A victim testifying at the trial of her rapist would definitely make the story deserve a 'rape' tag.
A guy telling his buddies that he fucked his girlfriend's sister's ass the night before wouldn't deserve a 'anal' tag, but if the sister's friends have a conversation with her when no guys are around, she's probably going to go into enough detail that the 'anal' tag would be deserved (seriously).

And things that happen in a flashback are NOT 'off-screen' BTW. Some people make that mistake.

joyR 🚫

Try this two step test;

1. Imagine a reader looking for stories that have a specific tag, if they read your story, would they find what they were looking for?

2. Imagine a reader looking for stories that do NOT have a specific tag, if they read your story would they encounter what they are specifically trying to avoid?

The optional third step is to check if your story description is shorter than the list of tags assigned to it. If it is, you need to write a better description..!!

My ¥20.00

Replies: Dominions Son Thomas Alexander Garrison Remus2

Dominions Son 🚫

@joyR

2. Imagine a reader looking for stories that do NOT have a specific tag, if they read your story would they encounter what they are specifically trying to avoid?

3. There is a small but not insignificant group that will complain about "offstage" things that they don't like getting mentioned.

Nothing you can do will make group 3 happy.

Making both group 1 and group 2 happy at the same time is nearly impossible.

Someone in group 1 might get upset over one short scene in an epic length story. But someone looking for that same tag will be sorely disappointed by that same story.

Replies: Thomas Alexander Garrison

Thomas Alexander Garrison 🚫

@Dominions Son

I'm okay with group 3. If one of the webmasters says it shouldn't be done, then if someone in group three complains, I'll point them to this post.

For most issues, I would agree making groups 1 and 2 happy at the same time is nearly impossible. I would find the right balance by weighing any reviews and/or by responding to the webmasters if there are complaints.

But with consent issues, I know it's a potential trigger for some readers. That means I have an ethical duty to get this right.

Thomas Alexander Garrison 🚫

@joyR

Lazeez was pretty clear about the offscreen stuff, and as it so happens, the fact they are offscreen gives me answers to your questions: No and (probably) no.

For the "pushing the boundaries of consent" example, the answers to those questions aren't quite so clear. If I labeled my story "Reluctant," would readers looking for it find what they are looking for? Probably not, since if readers blink, they may miss it. But if I don't label it, I'm less sure readers will encounter something they are specifically trying to avoid--particularly if a specific reader is triggered by consent issues and are thus more primed to catch it.

So what do you think? Tag it or just update the story description?

Replies: Dominions Son joyR

Dominions Son 🚫

@Thomas Alexander Garrison

So what do you think? Tag it or just update the story description?

My advice: Put your effort into using the description and tags into attracting the audience you want.

Putting a lot of effort into warning off readers who might get upset may save you the hassle of complaints, but it won't do much if anything to attract readers who would appreciate your story.

joyR 🚫

@Thomas Alexander Garrison

So what do you think? Tag it or just update the story description?

Lazeez is indeed clear about tags for on/off screen actions. (He owns the joint so he should know..!!)

Since you asked me what I think, here goes...

First I separate what the story is about from incidental actions that occur. I consider tags mandatory for the former and irrelevant for the latter.

There is a caveat, which does not apply to my stories, but does to certain authors who for example, write about a young woman finding out she enjoys exhibitionism and sunbathing naked at home and later on a nude beach, then suddenly add a scene in which she is 'taken' by a dog.

To me, such a 'twist' isn't 'incidental' because it is out of place in the story. I suspect that authors who ignore the caveat are those most often accused of 'tricking' the reader into a squick they find traumatising.

Personally I think anyone who is traumatised by a story allowed on this site should restrict themselves to Finestories Not because I'm unsympathetic to peoples squicks. I would similarly advise those squicked by genocide, infanticide, etc not to read the old testament of the christian bible.

I write for an adult audience, I therefore expect my readers to possess adult attitudes and common sense, if they don't... -shrug- I'll gladly refund them what they paid to read my story.

Replies: Thomas Alexander Garrison REP bk69

Thomas Alexander Garrison 🚫
Updated:

@joyR

Thank you! I think that really clarifies things. The things I have in mind are indeed not what the story is about. They are just incidents (though important ones) within a story that I'm making it absolutely clear that everything else is completely consensual. So (unless the webmasters say otherwise) I'll leave out the tags and expect my adult readers to be adults.

REP 🚫
Updated:

@joyR

Lazeez is indeed clear about tags for on/off screen actions.

There may be some miscommunication. Lazeez was saying it is okay to mention that anal and rape took place.

The OP talked about an offscreen character describing what took place. That is different from what Lazeez said.

If he is planning on the offscreen content describing an activity, it needs to be coded.

Replies: Thomas Alexander Garrison joyR

Thomas Alexander Garrison 🚫

@REP

As the original poster, the miscommunication may be mine. When I said "describes doing something," I did not mean give a blow-by-blow account. I meant something more along the lines of, "We did this. This is how it felt. This is how I feel about it." Onscreen, I would depict the physical, pyschological, and relational consequences.

joyR 🚫
Updated:

@REP

There may be some miscommunication. Lazeez was saying it is okay to mention that anal and rape took place.

I fail to see how miscommunication is possible, I made a simple statement of fact. Instead of your presumption of miscommunication, I suggest a lack in your comprehension.

"Lazeez is indeed clear about tags for on/off screen actions."

Seems a very clear statement to me, how could it be misconstrued?

bk69 🚫

@joyR

I'll gladly refund them what they paid to read my story.

Your offer is quite generous, but tell me... how have you found a way to refund time, and why aren't you monetizing that ability?

Replies: joyR

joyR 🚫
Updated:

@bk69

Your offer is quite generous, but tell me... how have you found a way to refund time, and why aren't you monetizing that ability?

Refund time? Since it takes much longer to write than to read the question of time is irrelevant. (Lunchtime doubly so) Besides which, every SOL reader does so voluntarily, they choose to spend time reading the stories here. No matter what a person does, they are going to feel they could have spend so of their time better, realisation is of course retrospective. Deal with it, or learn from it, you'll not stop it happening.

Replies: bk69

bk69 🚫

@joyR

Refund time?

Well, they spent (aka paid) their time on your story. You offered to refund them, so...

Replies: joyR

joyR 🚫

@bk69

Well, they spent (aka paid) their time on your story. You offered to refund them, so...

Why would you confuse spending some of your time on earth reading with spending money on reading?

Whilst I agree that one can 'spend' money, I don't agree that 'spending' time is equivalent. Whilst 'time is money' is a common expression, it would take a very particular type of person to charge themselves for the time they spend on earth, what if they got greedy, how would they deal with a debt?

So, smartass, my readers spend their own time reading my stories, if they don't enjoy them, then the offered refund is available as stated. "I'll gladly refund them what they paid to read my story."

A simple policy that makes perfect cents to me.

:)

Replies: bk69

bk69 🚫

@joyR

No, you'll refund them what they paid to you to read your story. They still won't get the time they spent back.

Replies: joyR

joyR 🚫

@bk69

No, you'll refund them what they paid to you to read your story.

Presumably your interests include flagellation, necrophilia and beastiality since you seem to enjoy flogging a dead horse...?

Remus2 🚫

@joyR

My ¥20.00

Would that be yuan or yen?

Mushroom 🚫

I would say no. But also with this in consideration.

Is that tag an important part of the story, or a 1 time event? Let's consider 2 examples.

2 gals are gossiping about sex, and one comments that her boyfriend did her up the butt once. That I would leave off, it is literally a "blink and you miss it" event, that is in no way descriptive.

But if a gal is constantly having in-text sex with her husband, then multiple times during the narration takes off for non-descriptive sex with her boyfriend, I could see the "cheating" tag being used. The sex may not be seen at all, but the fact she is cheating is more than obvious.

Thomas Alexander Garrison 🚫

That is a good point. My characters are describing these things in the context of an open relationship, so it does seem that the Sharing tag is appropriate.

bk69 🚫

@Thomas Alexander Garrison

How should I handle situations where a tag might fit, but not clearly? Two examples:

It really depends on the tag.

I don't know that I've ever heard of 'anal' being a squick on its own (at least not when in the context of het sex), for example. So that example it wouldn't matter much, even if the character described it in detail.

Consent issues... tag them with whatever seems closest, but if it falls between two levels, I'd say code harsher rather than less harsh. That way you can allow the characters to push their boundaries without forcing the readers to push theirs.

ystokes 🚫

There were some authors on this site (Not sure they are still around) that not only wouldn't post tags but wouldn't even post any description. It was read at your own risk.

Replies: bk69 awnlee jawking

bk69 🚫

@ystokes

Any author that does that is inviting outrage. And deserves any abuse hurled at him.
OTOH, any reader who would read such a story, even if they have squicks, is a subhuman that should be removed from the gene pool as well.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@ystokes

There are a number of very old stories fitting that profile, so they may be a symptom of the site's infancy at the time. If you care to read them, I'm sure management would be happy to receive suggestions for a description and tags.

AJ

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