Forum: Author Hangout

How to finish a story?

Jason Samson 🚫

My stories are getting fewer and longer. Just a natural progression, I guess.

And I'm suffering not from writers block, exactly, but rather a lack of focus.

Do you folks plan out stories before they start, or do you just start writing and see where they end? Do you write the skeleton of a story and then flesh it out, or write lots of disjoint scenes and then try and find bits to glue it all together?

I have several big stories in my mind started, some with a few chapters written, but no endings. No sooner do I come up with something cool do I think "that's great, but that's a _different_ story." Now I have one more big story on my mind and yet another open end!

Replies: REP Switch Blayde Mushroom Uther_Pendragon joyR

REP 🚫
Updated:

@Jason Samson

I have experienced most of what you described.

The solution I use is to write enough of the story so I will remember the basic storyline and then put it on my backburner until I'm ready to finish it. I have a few stories still on the back burner that I started years ago and will probably never complete.

As for how to approach a story, that varies between authors. I normally start the story with a concept in mind of how the story should flow, but don't outline the story. As I go, scenes for the story pop up in my mind and add them to a list of ideas for future scenes. I define the initial path for the story and then let the evolution of the story define it's route to an ending.

I recall other authors stating that they outline the story at the start and then stick to the outline. If it works for them, great. I also recall authors saying they get stuck writing the story. I believe they are stuck because they try to force the story along a specific path that is not working for them. That is one of the reasons why I don't post until the story is complete. It gives me the option to go back as many chapters as necessary and change the path of the story to something that will work for me. I typically set those chapters aside and later extract scenes that will work on the new path.

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Jason Samson

but no endings.

That's a problem. Plot = conflict (protagonist wants/needs something and something is in the way). So you need to know the conflict. And how the conflict is resolved (which is basically the ending).

If you're not a detailed planner, as I'm not, things will happen that you never planned for. Go with them (and go back and change earlier parts to make it work — the less planning the more re-writing).

Knowing the ending keeps you focussed. However, that doesn't mean the ending can't change. But if you're not writing toward an ending your story will go in countless directions that are not cohesive.

Before I begin, I know the following:

1. main characters and their relationships.
2. plot's conflict.
3. inciting incident (what sets the conflict in motion)
4. conflict resolution (plot's climax)

With a short story, that pretty much covers it. But with a novel-length story, I add characters, sub-plots, etc. along the way. That's why the short story I was writing turned into a novel. Once I started writing it, I got into more characters and sub-plots.

Replies: Vincent Berg

Vincent Berg 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Knowing the ending keeps you focussed. However, that doesn't mean the ending can't change. But if you're not writing toward an ending your story will go in countless directions that are not cohesive.

I may have already answered this, but ... in my stories, I generally know the ending, but not the specifics (i.e. lead character dies, but not how, or how they catch the bad guy in a mystery, but not WHO he is). The key is to know where the story goes, but not to tie your hands with an overly specific ending. Plus, I've had to radically alter a few endings in my time.

Redsliver 🚫

Hm... I make plans and then my characters ruin them.

Monkey Wrench was supposed to make it onto the planet. Blue Ribbon was supposed to have Leo end up with Mandy, I hadn't even planned Lisa before I started writing. Magic is Gross 2 went way off the rails. I expected Gia to be a big character and Leanne to be small but Leanne stole the spotlight every time I wrote...

Lost Toys is pretty much to plan. But the plan was garbage. "What if a mind controller was never satisfied?" And the cast of characters got out of hand pretty quickly. That's why I had to abandon it. Also, I designed the protagonist as a complete piece of garbage, only decent next to the violent guy, and I disliked my readers cheering him on.

I Have No Idea went as planned because I didn't make plans.

Blizzard, which should will post its final chapter on March 6th and is beautifully edited and corrected. You should check it out, it's awesome. Blizzard is almost nothing like how I planned it, but yet managed to come back to the ending I wanted from the beginning.

My editor asked me, "How did you write chapter 19 and not know Sam was the gay one?"

The answer was pretty simple, I came up with a plan and let the characters do whatever they wanted without looking back.

So, I make plans, and I'm very bad at following them... That probably doesn't help anyone.

Replies: shaddoth1 Mushroom StarFleet Carl

shaddoth1 🚫

@Redsliver

redsliver

Hm... I make plans and then my characters ruin them.

That is how I write. Of all of my stories, only Biomancer had a clear picture of how I expected it to end.
Smith diverged so much by the end that I needed to rewrite large sections repeatedly to cover the new plot holes. my initial ending and what the actual ending ended up being were not even close.

Character driven stories will do that to you.

My stories are all character driven. Are yours? if so, then I would go with the flow and let them tell your tale.
If they are plot driven, they follow the plot and spec it out first.

If they are a combination of both, then I would suggest sketching out a direction for the story to follow. Write your tale and if it diverges from your original sketched outline, then you have some deciding to do. Do you want your plot to take precedence or your characters?

That is my two cents.

Shad

Replies: Mushroom

Mushroom 🚫

@shaddoth1

Character driven stories will do that to you.

My stories are all character driven. Are yours?

Exactly. Many times I start with only a framework for a character. And as I write them, their story fleshes them out, and they eventually take on a life of their own. For me, after a while I find they often start to tell their own story.

I may start to have an idea of having them do something, and they actually fight me! If something is to far out of their behavior, I find it hard to write that. Even if I had written similar things in the past, it just does not work in this case. And I may even have them pulling me in a different direction, one I had never gone to before.

And yea, my stories are about half and half. Half are real character pieces, where the characters are the actual story. But in many, it is entirely scene driven. Where the scenes and settings are everything, and the characters are little more than animated dolls thrown into the action. Completely interchangeable, of no major importance.

And to resolve this internal conflict in my writing, I often have 2 or 3 stories/series going at once. Right now, I have Country Boy and Night of Madness, which are unquestionably character driven. But I also have a few others I map do which are more scene. But those (other than 1 anthology series) are all just one off stories, intended to just tell the story and leave, never returning to it again.

The anthology I keep open on purpose. It is intended to let me get "dark stories" out of my mind, and none of them are ones I ever really want to go back to. Most of them feature character(s) that I find at least a bit repulsive or lacking in favorable characteristics that would ever bring me back to them. But I still found I had to get that story out.

Mushroom 🚫

@Redsliver

Hm... I make plans and then my characters ruin them.

I have had that happen many times. I get an idea, and then somewhere in writing it out the characters take on more life than I intended, and essentially start to write themselves. A character I intended on being a one off and gone suddenly becomes a main character. Or I realize that a (not the) main character is such a douche that I eventually write them out.

But the thing is, I always put in a lot of clues that this will happen. I know that in one story I am working on finishing now, a lot of people will hate me for the second part when I get about half way through. Months ago I actually started plotting out how the entire story will end, and it has actually been visible for months in the main story now.

And I know I will get hate for it, and many will scream I have destroyed it. But the characters have become their own "people" in my mind, and now it is less creating a story, and more narrating where the personalities and behaviors I have created take them.

But the thing is, like many authors I really write for myself, not the readers. Do not get me wrong, I love those that read my works, and am pleased if they enjoy my poundings on a keyboard. But mostly I write for my own enjoyment, and it is the little surprises and changes that I throw in that I think are part of real life that makes a story good.

And that is real life. Almost nobody when they get married thinks "I am only going to be with this person for a few years, and when the sex gets dull I am gone". I believe almost all marry for love, and that they intend on it being forever. But something called "real life" just kinda happens.

Replies: Barahir

Barahir 🚫

@Mushroom

I know that in one story I am working on finishing now, a lot of people will hate me for the second part when I get about half way through. Months ago I actually started plotting out how the entire story will end, and it has actually been visible for months in the main story now. And I know I will get hate for it, and many will scream I have destroyed it

If you're talking about Country Boy I've been quite sure I know how that one's going to go for a long while now. If you are and I'm right, people will definitely be mad but they shouldn't be surprised, because you've absolutely planted the seeds in Linda's characterization and actions.

Replies: Mushroom Mushroom

Mushroom 🚫

@Barahir

If you're talking about Country Boy I've been quite sure I know how that one's going to go for a long while now. If you are and I'm right, people will definitely be mad but they shouldn't be surprised, because you've absolutely planted the seeds in Linda's characterization and actions.

*nods*

And realistically, he is going to be gone for a while. I will not give any more away, but that is going to be a strain that breaks things.

Book 1 of 2 of that series is almost done, it ends in August when he leaves for boot camp. And I already have Book 2 almost completely drafted.

And you are right, should not be a surprise. Although how things happen should be.

Replies: Barahir

Barahir 🚫

@Mushroom

I admit to laughing when you announced that you were going to crash right into the sequel, because I also predicted that. Gotta settle that relationship. ;-)

Replies: Mushroom

Mushroom 🚫

@Barahir

Well, that is just what happens sometimes.

I did try to return to Dire Wolf, but at this time I could not continue it. Probably because it is a darker story, and I have not been in a dark mood lately.

Mushroom 🚫
Updated:

@Barahir

If you're talking about Country Boy I've been quite sure I know how that one's going to go for a long while now. If you are and I'm right, people will definitely be mad but they shouldn't be surprised, because you've absolutely planted the seeds in Linda's characterization and actions.

And looking back and reading this again 6 months later, we were both so right.

I got a lot of hate, but was also kinda surprised at how angry many got at her. And some who a year earlier were rooting for her now call her even worse names that I do.

And in the last several months, seeing people cheering for one girl after another, and chuckling as they keep trying to predict where things are going, but have not figured it out yet. And I am sure most will smack their heads when I do finally finish it.

StarFleet Carl 🚫

@Redsliver

Hm... I make plans and then my characters ruin them.

Boy, does that sound familiar.

My current story (working title, A True History), I had all these wonderful plans and ideas for that story. I'm up to Chapter 19, and it's not just taken a left turn at Albuquerque, it's nowhere NEAR what I thought I was going to be writing when I sat down with it.

Replies: Pixy

Pixy 🚫
Updated:

@StarFleet Carl

@redsliver

Hm... I make plans and then my characters ruin them.

Boy, does that sound familiar.

It does indeed as I suffer from that remarkably badly as well :(

What I would like to know, is what actually makes a good ending?

I read through this thread (rather than starting a new one on the subject) and I agree that a story should have a point, a goal, and that once that goal is reached then the story is over.

I tend to write porn stories, so the goal is generally the character getting off/ having sex, whatever... Once achieved, job done, endex.

Also, my work tends to be short (no-attention span and limited imagination) around about the 30KB mark. Lately I have been stretching that out and trying to be a bit more adventurous in the plot department. I'm not a professional writer, I don't even class my self as 'enthusiastic amateur'. I just write a few passages when I have the time and fire them off.

I've been on here part-time for almost 20 years and I have NEVER received as much vitriol as I have over the last few days for just one submission. I didn't even expect many to read it because the subject generally isn't perceived' as being 'mainstream'. But it would appear that those that are interested in that type of story are VERY vocal and opinionated.

So it has got me thinking about how to end stories. What is the best way of ending one? No-one wants to write the textual equivalent of the TV series 'Lost', but nor can every story be ended 'happy'.

Should I tag every story as being a 'Stroke' story, so that the reader knows it's about the sex rather than a 'plot' and therefore won't get their panties in such a twist when some inner tick box that only they know, isn't ticked?

Such is their anger that a few have told me they are deliberately scoring my latest piece and my other stories low as punishment for the latest piece's ending. A look at my score board is proving that if nothing else, they are keeping their word...LOL

Replies: joyR

joyR 🚫

@Pixy

Such is their anger that a few have told me they are deliberately scoring my latest piece and my other stories low as punishment for the latest piece's ending.

In your words, you're not a professional writer / don't even class yourself as 'enthusiastic amateur'..." Yet you managed to write a short story that was powerful enough to ignite anger and incite response, not to shabby.. :)

In your shoes I'd write more of the same..!!

Oh wait, that IS how I reacted to similar responses...

Replies: Pixy

Pixy 🚫

@joyR

Yet you managed to write a short story that was powerful enough to ignite anger and incite response, not to shabby.. :)

That is a very good and positive point...LOL But I'll think I'll avoid that, I can't be doing with the drama.

Mushroom 🚫
Updated:

@Jason Samson

Do you folks plan out stories before they start, or do you just start writing and see where they end?

I do a little of both.

When I write a story, it ends up one of two ways. Either I have a concept that I know will be long and drawn out, and then work with that. Plotting it all out many chapters in advance and writing towards a goal.

Then I have others, which I only intend as writing as a short "one off" story, but something about the characters or settings I created just keeps pulling me back to it.

In the latter group, that was 2 of them. Both Okinawa and Country Boy started with the idea of just creating a quick "Boy meets girl, boy fucks girl" kind of story, but I liked the settings and characters so much I just kept returning to them over and over again, and eventually created a long story.

However, as I do that I keep writing, but start to plot out where that story is going to go. For CBCG I already know how I am going to end this part of the story, and already have the basic storyline of the next one laid out. And it is long, the entire story will probably be 2 books when it is done, ending over a decade after the point where it started. Now it is just the middle part of actually getting there.

But for me, sometimes the "open end" part comes with taking a concept and seeing how long I can drag it out. Like in CBCG, where I had the main character and his girlfriend go for 26 chapters before his cock entered her cunt. A lot of that was actually on purpose, I wanted to see how long I could drag that out, not wanting to just rush into the copulation as so many stories do.

And for a "Coming of Age" story, I think it worked.

Barahir 🚫

When writing fiction I outline and write in "waves" (there's an actual term for this technique but I always forget what it is).

So, I write a skeletal outline that shows me what I'm starting with and where I'm ending up, then I sprinkle some details and ideas — some of them purely speculative and contradictory — into the middle. Then I start writing, not stopping until I have a handle on at least some of my characters, whether or not they're working, and whether or not the plot still makes sense with them in it.

Then I go back to the outline and really flesh it out, adding and discarding ideas with abandon. After that I write some more, then go back to the outline, and so forth until I'm either sure that I'm going to use these characters to get to the end that I wanted or faced with the fact that I can't.

After that it's a three-pronged approach: 1) going back and editing earlier writing so that it fits whatever the story's turning into and I'm not proceeding from an unstable foundation, 2) modifying the outline in response to changes/new ideas as they develop, and 3) new writing. I also keep two other documents at hand: a calendar/itinerary so I know where my characters are and what they're doing at any given time, and a character description document so I don't accidentally lengthen someone's hair or have them experimenting with riding crops five years before the first relationship in which they explored BDSM.

If I get stuck on a point and can't outline my way out of it I'll open a second copy of my outline, drop the cursor at the problematic point, and write my way through it. Short, choppy writing that's badly punctuated and often all lower-case, typing as fast as I can just to pull ideas out of my head as quickly as possible and without second-guessing. Cocktails can be extremely helpful when the blockage is especially severe.

The first two stories I posted ended up exactly the way I envisioned them, virtually from the beginning. Then again I was using someone else's structure so that's not particularly surprising.

In its original outline, the story I'm posting right now ended exactly the opposite of the way it's going to end now. It was one of those situations where I realized about halfway through that I was clinging to what I hoped would happen rather than what rather obviously had to happen. Thankfully, it wasn't a change that required me to start from scratch. All it required was the addition of a new final chapter, plus a prologue and an epilogue. (On the other hand, the epilogue's just shy of 50,000 words...)

Uther_Pendragon 🚫

@Jason Samson

When you have stories partially complete and a new story idea comes up:

1 Do NOT post the incomplete story.

2 Have decent places to save the ole ones. Right now, I'm using a thumb drive. I've lost more stories on crashed computers than most of the SOL authors have written real ones.

Hey, you aren't writing for money. Incomplete stories don't cost you anything but storage. After a while, you find yourself mining the old stories for bits you can use again.

richardshagrin 🚫

You need to set a story in Finland if you want to Finnish the story.

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@richardshagrin

If you write a story using the German language that is set in England, is it a German story or an English story?

richardshagrin 🚫

is it a German story or an English story?

If it is about the man it is a Ger man story. If it is about the land it is a story about Eng land. If you want to Finnish the story, it needs to happen in Finland.

Replies: Pixy awnlee jawking Vincent Berg

Pixy 🚫

@richardshagrin

If it is about the man it is a Ger man story. If it is about the land it is a story about Eng land. If you want to Finnish the story, it needs to happen in Finland.

Some-one has WAY too much free time...LOL

Replies: richardshagrin

richardshagrin 🚫

@Pixy

Some-one has WAY too much free time.

Yes I do. I am stuck in my apartment almost all the time. I get out once a week to get my mail, after it has had time to marinate and let the virus expire, Monday morning fairly early since I am not allowed to be near anyone else. On one of the trips I get to put the rent check in the managers rent drop box. I didn't used to use it, because rent never dropped, it stayed the same or went up. The managers are never in the office, we have to phone them if we want their attention. All the benefits that caused me to move in are locked up. No exercise room. no computer room. No theater room (movies three times a week--gone with the virus). The community room gone (no monthly birthday cake or donuts twice a month, no social events or free food) Don't ride the elevator with anyone else. I also get to take trash to the trash room where it gets dumped down a chute. Two or three times a week. I had groceries delivered just outside my door in two bags, Both I and the person who brought the food were carefull to stay well away from each other. Its boring and making me crazy or more crazy, or crazyest. So I read stuff on SOL and look carefully at the Forum to find something to write.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@richardshagrin

Pffft. You can't lick a French story ;)

AJ

Replies: Dominions Son Vincent Berg

Dominions Son 🚫

@awnlee jawking

You can't lick a French story ;)

A "French Kiss" is a kiss with tongue, so a French story must be a story with tongue.

You don't like the French story, the French story licks you. :)

Vincent Berg 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Pffft. You can't lick a French story ;)

Unfortunately, with the current crisis you can't lick any story, lest you use liberal libations of Listerine!

Vincent Berg 🚫

@richardshagrin

If it is about the man it is a Ger man story. If it is about the land it is a story about Eng land. If you want to Finnish the story, it needs to happen in Finland.

Ha! If it is germain to a German, it is a great GerMan story. If it is set in England, the characters are educated edifications of the English sensibilities. If you want to finish in Finland, you need to flap your flippers to fly towards Finlandia.

Please, someone slap me so I get this carp out of my system! Anyone have any spare marbles they can chuck at my noggin?

Replies: karactr

karactr 🚫

@Vincent Berg

Please, someone slap me so I get this carp out of my system! Anyone have any spare marbles they can chuck at my noggin?

How did you get a fish in your computer?

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@karactr

How did you get a fish in your computer?

Perhaps he phell for a fishing scam.

AJ

Replies: karactr

karactr 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Or maybe he smelt one out?

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@karactr

Or maybe he smelt one out?

I farted. Then I farted again. That's my two scents.

Dominions Son 🚫

How to finish a story?

I like chrome.

If your story is wooden, you might try a stain or varnish.

karactr 🚫

Or just some poly.

Replies: joyR

joyR 🚫

@karactr

polycell - Budgie prison
polyfilla - Budgie food
polyurethane - Complimenting a budgie for losing weight
polyunsaturated - Wet budgie after standing under hair drier
Polychaeta - unfaithful budgie
polyclinic - where you treat a sick budgie
polygraph - long necked budgie
polymer - aquatic budgie
polymorph - ugly ex-budgie now a swan
polyp - budgie urine
polyphony - fake budgie
Polycarp - budgie slapped by CW
polygon - escaped budgie (see polycell)

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@joyR

polygraph - budgie size chart
politicalparty - don't be ridiculous, budgies don't have fingers so how can they tickle each other!

AJ

Replies: Dominions Son BalRog

Dominions Son 🚫

@awnlee jawking

politicalparty - don't be ridiculous, budgies don't have fingers so how can they tickle each other!

Politics - blood sucking parasites that infect budgies.

Political party - Rave held by blood sucking parasites on a budgie.

BalRog 🚫

@awnlee jawking

politicalparty - don't be ridiculous, budgies don't have fingers so how can they tickle each other!

Feathers, dude, feathers.

Sheesh.

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@BalRog

Feathers, dude, feathers.

IIRC, in '40 Days and 40 Nights', the dude brings the dudette to orgasm with a feather. But tickling dudes with a feather - is that a thing?

AJ

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@awnlee jawking

But tickling dudes with a feather - is that a thing?

The Thing is made of orange rock, so probably not.

karactr 🚫
Updated:

I thought The Thing was a John Carpenter movie, which had NOTHING to do with budgies.

Replies: Dominions Son joyR

Dominions Son 🚫

@karactr

I thought The Thing was a John Carpenter movie, which had NOTHING to do with budgies.

Well I suppose that depends on whether you are talking about John Carpenter's Thing or Stan Lee's Thing...

Replies: karactr

karactr 🚫

@Dominions Son

Well I suppose that depends on whether you are talking about John Carpenter's Thing or Stan Lee's Thing...

I really don't even want to go near either of their things...

Replies: BlacKnight

BlacKnight 🚫

@karactr

Stan Lee's thing is, however, contractually obligated to make a cameo appearance in all MCU slashfic.

joyR 🚫

@karactr

I thought The Thing was a John Carpenter movie, which had NOTHING to do with budgies.

Two budgies doing "The Thing"

:)

Ernest Bywater 🚫

Getting back to the title - the best way to finish a story is to read every word of every page until you reach the bottom of the back cover after having started at the top of the front cover.

joyR 🚫

@Jason Samson

How to finish a story?

The End

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@joyR

The End

Put story in dishwasher.

Add Finish tablets.

Switch on.

AJ

richardshagrin 🚫

newspapers used to end stories with
"-30-"

"-30-
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is about the "end of story" mark. For the episode of The Wire, see -30- (The Wire). For the film, see -30- (film).
-30- has been traditionally used by journalists in North America to indicate the end of a story. It is commonly found at the end of a press release. There are many theories about how the usage came into being,[1][2] e.g. from that number's use in the 92 Code of telegraphic shorthand to signify the end of a transmission in the American Civil War era.[3] It was included in the Associated Press Phillips Code of abbreviations and short markings for common use. It was commonly used when writing on deadline and sending bits at a time to be typeset, as a necessary way to indicate the end of the article."

Replies: madnige

madnige 🚫

@richardshagrin

newspapers used to end stories with "-30-"

I can't remember where I read this, but the decimal -30- replaced XXX which used to be used as an end-of-article tag (since this is 30 expressed in Roman Numerals), because of the association of XXX with the Pron industry.

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@madnige

with the Pron industry.

What the fuck is the pron industry?

Replies: madnige karactr awnlee jawking joyR

madnige 🚫
Updated:

@Dominions Son

A (deliberate) spelling error, like 'Spike Milligna, the famous typnig error'

ETA: ...or was this another ;) post that's too subtle (given your third word)

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@madnige

A (deliberate) spelling error

Kind of figured that, but I don't get why you would feel the need to do that here.

karactr 🚫

@Dominions Son

Maybe this is a reference to commercial shrimping?

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Dominions Son

What the fuck is the pron industry?

An impersonal attempt to spread mad cow disease?

AJ

joyR 🚫

@Dominions Son

What the fuck is the pron industry?

It's the industry that has been built around the teenage desire to attend pron night. The obvious such as special pron dresses, all the way through stretch limo's to the special table sprinkles... Another case of reality falling far short of the dream, as so many girls dreaming of their romantic first time find out that the reality is a hurried painful thing that leaves them emotionally scared whilst feeding the teenage boys need to boast.

Jaded, me..?

KimLittle 🚫

To answer the original thing, I have a start in mind, a finish, maybe a few key scenes and then I have to figure out how to get from A to Z, yet still managed to visit B through Y on the way.

I pretty much have the thing plotted in my head, but sometimes events or characters are created out of necessity, for the mechanics of the story to work.

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Forum: Author Hangout

How to finish a story?

WARNING! ADULT CONTENT...