Forum: Author Hangout

Longer means higher scores

Uther_Pendragon 🚫

We've all speculated about whether longer stories get you higher ratings. Now I've got experimental evidence.

I've been consolidating several series into single, multi-chapter stories. Before the last series came down, I recorded the scores. The scores for the six single stories ranged from 5.88 to 6.33 with a mean of 6.125. The "new," 6-chapter story is currently rated 6.97.

It's not because the readers get more words for their download limit, because one chapter still counts as one download. They just prefer multi-chapter stories.

Replies: Keet Ernest Bywater Ernest Bywater awnlee jawking

Keet 🚫

@Uther_Pendragon

It's not because the readers get more words for their download limit, because one chapter still counts as one download. They just prefer multi-chapter stories.

I thought the count was one per story, not per chapter. So it would make a difference for non-premium members.

Replies: helmut_meukel

helmut_meukel 🚫
Updated:

@Keet

I thought the count was one per story, not per chapter.

Depends.
If you log-in, select a story and download chapter after chapter it counts as one.
If however you take your time reading every chapter first then download the next chapter it counts only as one as long as you stay logged-in.
If for instance stupid Windows does a restart for an update, then accessing the same chapter counts again!
I have multiple stories open in my browser (Opera) and I set Opera to restart as it was before any shut-down.
So after every Windows update I get the error messages about exceding my contingent of 16 stories per day.

HM.

Replies: Keet REP Uther_Pendragon

Keet 🚫

@helmut_meukel

Depends.

Ah, yes of course. It wasn't that long ago I was a non-premium member, I should have remembered ;)

REP 🚫
Updated:

@helmut_meukel

I seem to recall it being the number of stories accessed in a single day.

Accessing the same story multiple times a day, only counts as accessing the story once on Lazeez's counter.

Just to check, I went to my Library and the story count was 4/100. I accessed a new story and the count went to 5/100. I exited and re-accessed the story about five times. The counter remained at 5/100.

ETA: A restart or other activity that bumps you out of SOL should not have affected your counter unless you remained logged in and haven't exited the stories within the past day. I'm not sure what the counter does when you have a story open for say 5 days, since you didn't access the story during the prior 4 days, I suspect it didn't increment for those days.

Replies: helmut_meukel AmigaClone

helmut_meukel 🚫

@REP

I'm not sure what the counter does when you have a story open for say 5 days, since you didn't access the story during the prior 4 days, I suspect it didn't increment for those days.

I know it doesn't increment the dayly counter, because I've more than 30 stories open.
I don't know how it works for stories I've open since the last update some days ago, because I checked my story counter before and after I downloaded a new update and sometimes the counter got incremented but not always.

HM.

AmigaClone 🚫

@REP

I'm not sure what the counter does when you have a story open for say 5 days, since you didn't access the story during the prior 4 days, I suspect it didn't increment for those days.

Since the pages on SOL are static (in other words to see a change you need to force a refresh), if you have a tab open on a browser that is not closed during the period in question it would not update the count unless you refreshed the page.

Replies: REP

REP 🚫
Updated:

@AmigaClone

I sometimes have multiple tabs open displaying SOL information. If I left my computer on for several days with a story in one tab, I could be active in the other tabs and monitor the story counter in those tabs. By doing it that way I would not have to refresh the story tab to see what effect leaving that story open has on the story counter.

I'm curious, but I'm just not interested enough to actually do it.

Replies: Ernest Bywater

Ernest Bywater 🚫

@REP

If you leave the page open on your computer it will not affect the story count again until such time as you refresh the page from SoL as it will just stay on the screen. However, if you refresh the next day or your computer restarts and gets the page again, then it will add another count due to it being the next day. Refresh the same page on the same day won't affect the count either. Thus if you open chapter 3 of the story then chapter 4 and go back and forth between them several times on the one day the count will only be 1 count for each page.

Uther_Pendragon 🚫

@helmut_meukel

If for instance stupid Windows does a restart for an update, then accessing the same chapter counts again!

Tell Lazeez. His description to me was different.

Replies: helmut_meukel

helmut_meukel 🚫

@Uther_Pendragon

helmut_meukel:
If for instance stupid Windows does a restart for an update, then accessing the same chapter counts again!

Tell Lazeez. His description to me was different.

Are we talking about the same thing?
AFAIK there are at least 3 counter.
for the author/story statistics: downloads per chapter
for the author/story statistics: downloads per story
for the user: downloads per day.
I talked about the 16 downloads per day for a normal member. When I read a story, the counter is increased by one. If I read more than one chapter these downloads normally don't increase the counter. If I break within the chapter without closing the browser tab I can continue reading the chapter without causing an increase of my actual story counter even if it's a new day for SOL. If however Windows restarts and the user restarts his browser to read the rest of the chapter this counts as another download. Because I've usually at least 4 to 6 stories open in browser tabs, waiting for the next chapter to be posted, every time windows restarts and my browser reconnects these open chapters count again towards my 16 stories limit. I don't know if the chapter and story counters for the author's statistics are also increased.

HM.

Goldfisherman 🚫

I concur with Uther on the multichapter higher score. I am finding that single chapter stories are read and downloaded for 1-2 days and then they are no longer on any of the listings. Single chapter stories are never commented on and rarely voted on, because there are not that many readers in the 1-2 days they are actively listed.

Replies: REP

REP 🚫
Updated:

@Goldfisherman

Multi-chapter stories may have higher scores, but I doubt it is for the reason you cited.

Most single chapter stories are relatively short, while multi-chapter stories are relatively long. So the higher scores are probably due to the author being able to do a better job of plot development/execution and doing a better job of character development when writing the longer multi-chapter stories.

Replies: Uther_Pendragon Marius-6

Uther_Pendragon 🚫

@REP

Multi-chapter stories may have higher scores, but I doubt it is for the reason you cited.

Most single chapter stories are relatively short, while multi-chapter stories are relatively long. So the higher scores are probably due to the author being able to do a better job of plot development/execution and doing a better job of character development when writing the longer multi-chapter stories.

That's a fine explanation for another set of facts than the one I posted.

I have he SAME words -- originally posted as 6 stories in a series, later posted as 6 chapters in a single story.

It's hard to see how the re-alignment made for better character development.

Marius-6 🚫

@REP

I agree, multi-chapter stories are relatively long. So the higher scores are probably due to the author being able to do a better job of plot development/execution and doing a better job of character development when writing the longer multi-chapter stories.

There is an occasional exception. Earlier today I read a short, single page story that packed a significant emotional impact, and managed to tell a very complete story, quite concisely. I rated it a 10 (which I almost never rate anything above a 9); it has a 9.7 Rating. However, this is an exceptional story.

Ernest Bywater 🚫

@Uther_Pendragon

It's not because the readers get more words for their download limit, because one chapter still counts as one download.

Not quite true, Uther. The system counts two sets of download stats: The chapter count and the story count. It also ignores multiple hits for the same chapter or story that occur on the same day as the site is set to.

Thus, If a person downloads the first 5 chapters of story Alpha on the site's Monday it will show a count of 1 download for each chapter, but only a count of 1 for the story. However, if the person puts the story down and then reads the next five chapters on the site's Tuesday it will show a download count of 1 for each chapter and another count of 1 for the story. That way when read over multiple days the chapters will get a count of 1 each while the story gets a count of 2. However, if they read the whole story on the one day for the site the story count will only go up by 1.

Replies: Uther_Pendragon

Uther_Pendragon 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

Thanks.

I was basing my idea on some figures the site gave me out of my 100 limit. (Actually, when I was downloading everything I had on the site -- right after the ASSTR collapse when I was worried -- I didn't get close to 100 chapters a day. And I certainly wasn't reading them.)

Ernest Bywater 🚫

@Uther_Pendragon

They just prefer multi-chapter stories.

This is true. Also there is the factor many people don't bother with a short story so they don't read them and they don't vote on them. So it's very likely the higher score is partially due to new readers who like the new format and score it higher.

dsclink3 🚫

There are several long stories with high scores that I found to be low quality. I generally stop reading them after a chapter or two and since I would have to make an extra effort to open to last chapter and scroll down to the scoring box to leave a score, I just skip it. If I read a short story with the same low quality I do leave a score as the scoring box is right there.

I have wondered if maybe I'm not the only one who does this and if it results in a higher perceived score for longer stories since people who don't like it don't leave a score while people who do like it enough to read all the way through will.

Replies: helmut_meukel ChiMi

helmut_meukel 🚫

@dsclink3

I have wondered if maybe I'm not the only one who does this

You are not alone. I must be very disappointed with the story to go to the bottom of the last chapter just to vote.

HM.

ChiMi 🚫

@dsclink3

I have wondered if maybe I'm not the only one who does this and if it results in a higher perceived score for longer stories since people who don't like it don't leave a score while people who do like it enough to read all the way through will.

It is generally accepted, that monger series or stories have higher scores because of "survivor" bias.
Meaning, that the people who stick to a series or story do it because they like it. Most people who give up on a story never rate them.

Replies: richardshagrin

richardshagrin 🚫

@ChiMi

monger

"Dictionary
Search for a word
-monger
/ˈməNGɡər/
combining form
denoting a dealer or trader in a specified commodity.
"fishmonger"
a person who promotes a specified activity, situation, or feeling, especially one that is undesirable or discreditable.
"warmonger"

"It is generally accepted, that monger series or stories have higher scores". But I haven't noticed stories about mongers are better than others. Oh, you meant "longer"?

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@richardshagrin

Oh, you meant "longer"?

No, he meant 'donger', stories with lots of big dongs in them ;)

AJ

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Uther_Pendragon

Statistically that's not a fair comparison. Readers who awarded low scores to the original stories won't read the consolidated versions and vote again, but readers who liked the stories originally will re-read them and award high scores again, so the consolidated stories will show higher scores.

Deleting stories then reuploading them is a way of gaming the system to improve their scores.

AJ

FairWeatheredFriend 🚫
Updated:

To be fair i normally don't even touch stories with less then 12 chapters.

Ernest Bywater 🚫

I will try again to explain how the counters operate. This topic has been fully covered, a few time, in the past and below is what I learned about the system during those discussion.

1. SoL resets all of the counters every 24 hours based on the time of midnight of its timezone in Canada.

1.a. During this 24 hour period multiple visits to the same page by the same log on ID will not increase any of the the counters.

1.b. Another visit to the same page after the midnight reset will increase all of the relevant counters.

2. The reader counter will increase by one for each new story visited during that period.

2.a. The reader counter will not increase by one for visits to multiple pages for the chapters of that same story during that period.

3. The story count will increase by one for each visit to any page of that story during the 24 hour period.

3.a. The story count will not increase for visits to multiple pages of chapters for that story during that 24 hour period.

4. The chapter count will increase by one for the visit to each new chapter during that 24 hour period.

4.a. The chapter count will not increase for multiple visits to that chapter within the 24 hour period.

5. The above holds true for all visits to the website regardless of why the visit to a web page occurs. It may be due to the reader clicking on the links, the computer restarting, the browser being closed and re-opened, or the browser reading ahead on you - see later note.

6. Most browser are capable of reloading a page from the computer cache and not the website if they're set up to do so, many come pre-set that way. This applies regardless of if the browser closes by accident, by the reader, or a computer restart.

6.a. A page reloaded from the computer cache will not increase the website count in any way because that does not visit the website.

............

Browser Read Ahead. Many browsers can be set to anticipate your actions by what is known as Read Ahead where it will download the pages linked to from the current page and store them in the browser cache. This it to make it seem to load faster when you click on that link. Some browsers come with this as a default setting, and you should turn it off, because if it does this it will visit the website pages without you knowing it and it will increase the relevant counts above.

I hope this helps you all to understand the process.

Replies: Keet madnige Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

Keet 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

Browser Read Ahead.

Very good point mentioning the browser read ahead. Not many internet users know about that.
If you are using a full browser on your mobile device you should check this too. It's probably optimized for mobile and not switched on, or not even available, but if it is then switching it off can save you a lot of expensive data traffic.

madnige 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

1. SoL resets all of the counters every 24 hours based on the time of midnight of its timezone in Canada.
[ ]
2. The reader counter will increase by one for each new story visited during that period.

2.a. The reader counter will not increase by one for visits to multiple pages for the chapters of that same story during that period.

Not quite: the Reader counter is active over a nominal 24-hour period starting at the reader login (manual or automatic) rather than midnight-aligned, so this period can drift relative to the site's midnight. A small delay in logging in will move the window later; the period is slightly less than 24 hours to (presumably) avoid the inevitable delays forcing the window later and later (the best I can determine, it's 24hr - 5min + 1sec). The end of this window/period is reported in your Today's Accesses page when you've accessed at least one story, and the login time reported there (and on your My Account page) is exactly 24hr earlier. A corollary of this is that it's possible to get a reported login time earlier than you opening the browser; this is not a bug but a feature.

It's worth noting that accessing a multi-chapter story's index page (without accessing any chapter content) counts as a story access, at least for the reader counter.

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@madnige

Not quite: the Reader counter is active over a nominal 24-hour period starting at the reader login

I've noticed that whatever time I login, my reader accesses counter gets reset late afternoon, my time, usually around the middle of my SOL day. So I'm not sure that the reader login works the way you've described.

AJ

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Ernest Bywater

1. SoL resets all of the counters every 24 hours based on the time of midnight of its timezone in Canada.

Not quite. It's not midnight. It's on the first access 24 hours after log in. So time of reset moves.

1.a. During this 24 hour period multiple visits to the same page by the same log on ID will not increase any of the the counters.

true for user counter and story counter. false for chapter counter.

3. The story count will increase by one for each visit to any page of that story during the 24 hour period.

False. Pages don't count.

4. The chapter count will increase by one for the visit to each new chapter during that 24 hour period.

4.a. The chapter count will not increase for multiple visits to that chapter within the 24 hour period.

False. chapter accesses are not tracked and will increase with reloads.

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Longer means higher scores

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